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[HomShaBom]

Never change, Fox.

 

[satori]

While this news is indeed unfortunate for the dead, their loved ones, and Pakistan, I can't help but think that Bhutto must have known this was coming. She said in interviews that she realized the risk in advance of returning to Pakistan, and she's spent her weeks there dodging bomb after bomb with an increasingly, not decreasingly, belligerent Musharraf.

I mean, if he didn't get her, it was clear Al Qaeda would.

I feel worse for the Pakistani people stuck in Pakistan then for anyone who knew the risks to jump back into that hornet's nest. Granted, she was trying to do something great, but the timing was clearly inopportune and the cards stacked heavily against her even surviving, much less succeeding.

Great point, and I agree with most of them, but I ask you when is it not an inopportune time try to make such a drastic change? Yes she knew the danger she was facing, her whole party knew. Hell after coming back from her self impose exile of 8 years, they tried to kill her taking out about 140 people. To try to enforce a new ideaology into a thousand year old culture will always result in some very tough resistant.

Can you imagine if a large group with power try to enforce the Communism or Islamic views and ideaology into the western culture? How well would the people of USA take it?

Point is they were trying to make some drastic changes, and she became a marty for it. I am sadden, and my prayers goes out to her and those killed in the attack. These are dark times indeed. We can only hope the backlash from this will break down the Pakistan nation even further, but we can all assume what will come of this already.

 

[Azih]

Here's a good article that actually has people from Pakistan responding to questions. You'll see a range of opinions there from people who support Musharraf to those who don't.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7148656.stm

 

[Rezbit]

Holy shit, Pakistan is a massive powderkeg right now. You know, I'm not a terribly emotional guy but this image gave me such a huge lump in my throat.

Just the anguish on his face...heartbreaking.

 

[Azih]

And have we all forgotten that Musharraf himself has been a target of plenty of assassination attempts?

 

[Azih]

Benazir wasn't trying to make drastic changes, she was in power for quite a while and all she did was preside over what was most probably the most corrupt administration of them all, which for Pakistan is *quite* an achievement.

 

[Zapages]

First off guys Zapages's views on the MQM are complete conspiracy theory tin foil hat stuff which is weird since the MQM is not a major player at all in Pakistani politics. In fact the only people who have less influence than the MQM is Imran Khan's party.

I support Musharaff's idea of creating a stable country that can attract foreign investment and use that plus western aid to build up the civillian infrastructure. That is the only way up for Pakistan. Now, sadly, stability and democracy seem to be mutually exclusive in Pakistan and as such I am a supporter of his. He was doing fine in getting more foreign investment in Pakistan until the whole war on terror thing happened but he at least managed to parlay that into huge amounts of aid. Edit: Am a happy about him being a dictator? Hell no. But he is a better leader and been more effective than Nawaz Sharif and Benazir Bhutto. I don't mind sticking with what works.

As for "shit's really going to hit the fan now" ideas.... shit hit the fan a long time ago. It was a lot of shit and this is the fallout. I've got family in Pakistan and tomorrow they'll just get on with it. They'll be a bit more cautious and this will reinforce their inclination to STAY THE HELL OUT OF POLITICS, but other than that life will continue.

Edit: Also dear lord, Musharraf is a part of the Army, they don't give a shit about the MQM one way or the other.

I have family back home too. They are in the military and in the media... So I know how much BS MQM party says and does. They are not a new party at all, but they have been here for a while and are quiet radical. They have become big because of Musharaf. MQM + Army = Musharaf, there's no questioning about that.

Search about MQM, Altaf Hussain and Jinnahpur conspiracy and how they do things. You'll find quiet ironic information about it.

As for support for Musharaf is concerned. I don't like him, because he is trying to be a puppet for the American policies and trying to change the culture of Pakistan, which then contradicts the nation's Islamic and religious founding. So I rather have a corrupt civilian/democratic elected leader than a military dictator. Musharaf's action against the Chief Justice, is deplorable to say the least. A corrupt civilian/democratic leader can lose in the next election, but a military dictator wants to hold onto power for as long as he can.

Aside from this, news from Pakistan are coming that Musharaf or the military is involved in the assignation of Bhutto.

Karachi != whole Pakistan. Karachi is where MQM, majority of support of Musharaf arises from.

 

[whytemyke]

I have family back home too. They are in the military and in the media... So I know how much BS MQM party says and does. They are not a new party at all, but they have been here for a while and are quiet radical. They have become big because of Musharaf. MQM + Army = Musharaf, there's no questioning about that.

Search about MQM, Altaf Hussain and Jinnahpur conspiracy and how they do things. You'll find quiet ironic information about it.

As for support for Musharaf is concerned. I don't like him, because he is trying to be a puppet for the American policies and trying to change the culture of Pakistan, which then contradicts the nation's Islamic and religious founding. So I rather have a corrupt civilian/democratic elected leader than a military dictator. Musharaf's action against the Chief Justice, is deplorable to say the least. A corrupt civilian/democratic leader can lose in the next election, but a military dictator wants to hold onto power for as long as he can.

Aside from this, news from Pakistan are coming that Musharaf or the military is involved in the assignation of Bhutto.

Karachi != whole Pakistan. Karachi is where MQM, majority of support of Musharaf arises from.

ruh roh, shaggy.

 

[~Devil Trigger~]

Never change, Fox.

wait...

thats their banner???

 

[HomShaBom]

wait...

thats their banner???

Yep.

Just looked, they changed it around, but the same base pic.

 

[AAK]

What the hell will Musharaff gain by killing her? It was obvious he was gonna win the elections anyway.

Whatever, Pakistan is basically gone. Everyone hates everyone. I just pray that it won't turn into Iraq/Palestine.

 

[scorcho]

at the very least Musharaff is responsible for not providing enough security for Bhutto throughout her campaign.

 

[thesoapster]

...shit. This is really not what that region needs. RIP

 

[Zapages]

What the hell will Musharaff gain by killing her? It was obvious he was gonna win the elections anyway.

Whatever, Pakistan is basically gone. Everyone hates everyone. I just pray that it won't turn into Iraq/Palestine.

Bhutto and Shariff were making coalition against Musharaf... Musharaf and military were getting scared of Bhutto's thought of giving everything about their nuclear plan to the west. Thus, they might have done this. Another view is that Musharaf would be losing power with the coalition of Bhutto and Shariff, thus he was scared of two majority parties against Musharaf and his policies.

 

[whytemyke]

...shit. This is really not what that region needs. RIP

It's ok. India is there to make sure the Pakistanis survive this time of crisis.


So is China, too.




fuck. we're all gonna die.

 

[Azih]

I have family back home too. They are in the military and in the media... So I know how much BS MQM party says and does. They are not a new party at all, but they have been here for a while and are quiet radical. They have become big because of Musharaf. MQM + Army = Musharaf, there's no questioning about that.

I'm questioning it, right here, right now. The MQM came onto the scene with the first democractic elections in a long while after Zia Ul-Haq died. They're not a big player at all.

Search about MQM, Altaf Hussain and Jinnahpur conspiracy and how they do things. You'll find quiet ironic information about it.

Certainly didn't find anything on the wiki page on MQM. The only source you've ever quoted on this is comments from MQM's *political opponents*. It kinda fails the test of source criticism.

As for support for Musharaf is concerned. I don't like him, because he is trying to be a puppet for the American policies and trying to change the culture of Pakistan, which then contradicts the nation's Islamic and religious founding.

What does that even mean? How is he 'chagning the culture of Pakistan'? In any case quite a few posters here are disparaging Musharraf for not changing Pakistan *enough*. I don't give a shit about 'culture' I just want Pakistan's infrastructure to improve and Musharraf was doing a far better job of it than his predecessors.

So I rather have a corrupt civilian/democratic elected leader than a military dictator.

Civillian democracy requires a level of mature infrastructure and civillian literacy that Pakistan just does not have yet.

Aside from this, news from Pakistan are coming that Musharaf or the military is involved in the assignation of Bhutto.

There's all kinds of theories. The military doesn't inspire suicide bombing, so your theory is a weak one in my view.

Karachi != whole Pakistan. Karachi is where MQM, majority of support of Musharaf arises from.

Never said it was. But there's a far greater diversity of opinion in Pakistan than you seem to realize and I just wanted to highlight that.

 

[Azih]

Bhutto and Shariff were making coalition against Musharaf... Musharaf and military were getting scared of Bhutto's thought of giving everything about their nuclear plan to the west. Thus, they might have done this. Another view is that Musharaf would be losing power with the coalition of Bhutto and Shariff, thus he was scared of two majority parties against Musharaf and his policies.

Dude, all of that is just complete and total speculation. And it falls apart as the millitary isn't scared at all of who might become Prime Minister. They can take power anytime they wish and *everyone* knows this. Hell the Presidency is the only office with real power right now and they are in charge of that no matter what happens in an election.

 

[kablooey]

What the hell will Musharaff gain by killing her? It was obvious he was gonna win the elections anyway.

Whatever, Pakistan is basically gone. Everyone hates everyone. I just pray that it won't turn into Iraq/Palestine.

On the one hand having Bhutto around would have granted the upcoming election, and thus Musharraf's probable victory some legitimacy. On the other, this assassination gives him more license to once again impose martial law to try to stabilize things for the time being, and probably for the indefinite future as well.

I wouldn't be surprised if Musharraf was behind the attack, but it seems like he's their only hope for stability at the moment unfortunately.

 

[bob_arctor]

The United States strongly condemns this cowardly act by murderous extremists who are trying to undermine Pakistan's democracy,

Those who committed this crime must be brought to justice.

We stand with the people of Pakistan in their struggle against the forces of terror and extremism. We urge them to honor Benazir Bhutto's memory by continuing with the democratic process for which she so bravely gave her life,

Supposed to have a televised statement as well.

 

[Jenga]

I just saw the pics. God damn...

Seriously. Extremely emotional.

 

[whytemyke]

Supposed to have a televised statement as well.

"and uh... ben-zeer, she uhh... heh heh... she WORKED *extends hands*... for democracy. she worked hard. it's hard work."

 

[HocusPocus]

What a wonderful region of the world. They continue to make us all proud we are human beings.

 

[ElectricBlue187]

"and uh... ben-zeer, she uhh... heh heh... she WORKED *extends hands*... for democracy. she worked hard. it's hard work."

:lol great

 

[Zapages]

I'm questioning it, right here, right now. The MQM came onto the scene with the first democractic elections in a long while after Zia Ul-Haq died. They're not a big player at all.

Certainly didn't find anything on the wiki page on MQM. The only source you've ever quoted on this is comments from MQM's *political opponents*. It kinda fails the test of source criticism.

Correspondent

LONDON, Jan 27: Muttahida Qaumi Movement appears close to declaring
unilateral declaration of independence as its chief Altaf Hussain
on Thursday sounded, what he termed, "bugle" of war by warning the
establishment that if killings of Mohajirs are not stopped he will
have no other option but to launch an armed struggle and seek
support from a neighbouring country.

Talking to Pakistani reporters at MQM's international secretariat
at Colindale area of London after its formal inauguration, the MQM
chief said that he had tried every method while remaining within
the four walls of the Constitution but the "Punjabi establishment"
has refused to accept Mohajirs and the mandate given to the MQM by
the people.

"We are termed anti-Pakistani, agents of (Indian intelligence
agency) RAW, and anti-state," he said while referring to the oft-
repeated charges levelled by the intelligence agencies against his
organization.

A few years ago the ISI had claimed to have unearthed MQM's plan of
creating "Jinnahpur" but the MQM had denied the plan and said it
was a conspiracy to defame Mohajirs.

Mr Hussain said the ISI from the very beginning had been accusing
him as an agent of RAW, a charge he denied vehemently.

The MQM chief regretted that despite all his assurances to the army
and other authorities that neither he nor the MQM, nor Mohajirs
were anti-Pakistani, they were being persistently pushed against
the wall.

Asked whether he was close to declaring unilateral declaration of
independence, the MQM Chief said "Khuda Karey" (may God help in
doing so).

The MQM chief, who told the Pakistani establishment to take his
today's statement as a "bugle" of war, said he was not anti-
Pakistani and wanted to remain in Pakistan.

SINDHI-MOHAJIR UNITY: Meanwhile the MQM chief in an open letter,
said Sindh had virtually become a colony of Punjab, and that the
Sindhis had been denied their rights.

Addressing the people of Sindh, he asked them to give serious
consideration to his letter, in which he posed the question: "Have
the common Sindhis of the province of Sindh got freedom after the
creation of Pakistan? "

Source: http://www.lib.virginia.edu/area-studies/SouthAsia/SAserials/Dawn/2000/29jan00.html

http://books.google.com/books?id=ON...ts=EsLJ8iFjnU&sig=a8WWKa8jzLq74B0ao4MDcZJAKhM

What does that even mean? How is he 'chagning the culture of Pakistan'? In any case quite a few posters here are disparaging Musharraf for not changing Pakistan *enough*. I don't give a shit about 'culture' I just want Pakistan's infrastructure to improve and Musharraf was doing a far better job of it than his predecessors.

Pakistan wasn't created to please western nation's interest. Pakistanis should not care for what for west's interests. Pakistan's leaders should be looking out for the interest of their own country and their people just like how the western country's look out for their own interests.

Civillian democracy requires a level of mature infrastructure and civillian literacy that Pakistan just does not have yet.

This means what?? Musharaf has very little to do help with the literacy in Pakistan. The thing is that Pakistan needs a unified educational system. The infrastructure was being created in each specific region with Shariff(Lahore) and Bhutto (Karachi). But literacy takes time and generation.

There's all kinds of theories. The military doesn't inspire suicide bombing, so your theory is a weak one in my view.

Hmm, I am just bringing the news. Geo News, a Pakistani News channel is telling the public about this news and on CNN as well.

Never said it was. But there's a far greater diversity of opinion in Pakistan than you seem to realize and I just wanted to highlight that.

The diversity of opinion is coming from Karachi... This does not represent the majority of views concerning Pakistan at all. I was showcasing my view against Musharaf, while you were showcasing your favor for Musharaf.

 

[Zapages]

Dude, all of that is just complete and total speculation. And it falls apart as the millitary isn't scared at all of who might become Prime Minister. They can take power anytime they wish and *everyone* knows this. Hell the Presidency is the only office with real power right now and they are in charge of that no matter what happens in an election.

I am not bringing the news, Geo TV is...

Military should never be allowed to be overthrow a civilian government, plain and simple.

 

[DarienA]

I vaguely remember reading a bit back that it was the US that actually coaxed her to return to Pakistan... is that true?

 

[DarkJediKnight]

Never change, Fox.

Is that guy photoshopped in the middle? They might as well stick Scott Stapp of Creed in there re-shooting his "With Arms wide open" video.

 

[whytemyke]

CNN reporting massive violence and traffic jams in Islamabad.

These are the side effects of world-altering news. My God. What are we becoming? Why can't these people just mourn without stopping traffic? How will they get to Mcdonalds? IS THERE NO GOD?!




come on CNN... just report the facts. don't sensationalize, because when you do you say stupid shit like "massive violence... and traffic jams."

I can just hear Jim McKay: "They're gone. They're all gone... and the 5 is down to one lane. This is madness."

 

[devilscallmedad]

I was there when this happened, well not exactly there but i was coming home and wasn't that far away. She definetly got shot when she stuck her head out of the vehicle ( terrible thing to do when you know you are a target ). Thankfully the riots so far here in pindi have been under control.

CNN reporting massive violence and traffic jams in Islamabad.

Seriously that's just a straight out a lie, traffic is well under control actually and the only "violence" has been a few posters burned of government politicians.

 

[echoshifting]

Is that guy photoshopped in the middle? They might as well stick Scott Stapp of Creed in there re-shooting his "With Arms wide open" video.

He isn't. It looks weird cropped the way it is but there is no way they could put that whole photo on their front page. I'm surprised they have it on their website at all.

Sad and scary day.

 

[DarienA]

So even the foxnews webmasters are a-holes? I've never visited their news website before today.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

Regardless of whether or not he's involved, I have a hard time believing Musharraf will lose any sleep over her death.

This is bad news for Pakistan as if it falls into civil war because of this, the winner of this civil war will win the ultimate prize.

Nukes.

 

[Zapages]

Regardless of whether or not he's involved, I have a hard time believing Musharraf will lose any sleep over her death.

This is bad news for Pakistan as if it falls into civil war because of this, the winner of this civil war will win the ultimate prize.

Nukes.

You do realize, majority of people in Pakistan don't think nukes to be as a huge issue as in the west. Its mostly a deterrent for India.

 

[Azih]

Right.. so.

A few years ago the ISI had claimed to have unearthed MQM's plan of
creating "Jinnahpur" but the MQM had denied the plan and said it
was a conspiracy to defame Mohajirs.

Mr Hussain said the ISI from the very beginning had been accusing
him as an agent of RAW, a charge he denied vehemently.....

The MQM chief, who told the Pakistani establishment to take his
today's statement as a "bugle" of war, said he was not anti-
Pakistani and wanted to remain in Pakistan.

You're accusing the MQM of advocating for independence which it denies. You can't advocate for independence COVERTLY, you have to be open about that kind of stuff.

None of which changes that Musharraf has the support of the ARMY, and when you have that you have real power, unlike the MQM or Thereek-e-insaaf, which um, DON'T.

Pakistan wasn't created to please western nation's interest. Pakistanis should not care for what for west's interests. Pakistan's leaders should be looking out for the interest of their own country and their people just like how the western country's look out for their own interests.

Which has nothing to do with culture at all. What the hell was the culture stuff about?

But literacy takes time and generation.

Literacy requires time, generation, and investment. Bhutto and Sharif were both corrupt and money wasn't going into education at all. Musharraf is doing a better job of it then both of those yahoos were. Hell his administration is corrupt too. But less corrupt and It'll take it.

Speculation isn't news. I wouldn't be surprised if Musharraf was behind the assassination. But I wouldn't be surprised if he wasn't either. You on the other hand seem to have already made up your mind.

Edit: In any case if you want to take the MQM talk to PM that's fine as I don't think anybody else is very interested. It's just extremely bizzare to see you dismiss people's opinions just because they're from Karachi.

 

[scorcho]

if this picture came right before her assassination it would explain how she was shot in the neck and chest even though the vehicle was heavily armored.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

You do realize, majority of people in Pakistan don't think nukes to be as a huge issue as in the west. Its mostly a deterrent for India.

Tell that to peeps that could assume control, (of course all this is hypothetical) that could have a more aggressive viewpoint than just using them as a deterrent.

 

[whytemyke]

You do realize, majority of people in Pakistan don't think nukes to be as a huge issue as in the west. Its mostly a deterrent for India.

The majority of Pakistani people don't want anything to do with anything outside of the regions in which they live. I don't think anyone has a problem with the Pakistani people... it's the government or those that aspire to it that scares everyone.

I mean, Pakistan is the one that gave North Korea nukes, so it's hard for me to sit here and say that Pakistan is an ally in the nuclear arms game. They traded the technology to DPRK for ballistic missile technology. (I had a professor whose grandfather was the President of ROK and as a result he has incredible ties in the region.)

 

[Zapages]

Right.. so.



You're accusing the MQM of advocating for independence which it denies. You can't advocate for independence COVERTLY, you have to be open about that kind of stuff.

None of which changes that Musharraf has the support of the ARMY, and when you have that you have real power, unlike the MQM or Thereek-e-insaaf, which um, DON'T.

Musharaf has the support of MQM and the Army. There's been proof of what they've wanted to do so, as Altaf Hussain gave a speech once about it.

Which has nothing to do with culture at all. What the hell was the culture stuff about?

Talking about not doing enough... Does...

Literacy requires time, generation, and investment. Bhutto and Sharif were both corrupt and money wasn't going into education at all. Musharraf is doing a better job of it then both of those yahoos were. Hell his administration is corrupt too. But less corrupt and It'll take it.

Musharaf in my opinion is more corrupt than them two. Musharraf overthrow Shariff because he was limiting the military's power/money. Thus Musharraf overthrew him.
Under Musharaf the military's children are only being educated, while the rest of Pakistanis' population is full poverty and illiteracy.

Speculation isn't news. I wouldn't be surprised if Musharraf was behind the assassination. But I wouldn't be surprised if he wasn't either. You on the other hand seem to have already made up your mind.

I have??? I've been saying that News is coming in that Musharaf or the military are involved... Its not like I'm believing that. You're the doing assuming on your part.

I don't support Musharaf.

 

[devilscallmedad]

Tell that to peeps that could assume control, (of course all this is hypothetical) that could have a more aggressive viewpoint than just using them as a deterrent.

You speak like anyone can run and get those nukes, in any case Pakistan has one of the largest and strongest armies in the world. Those nukes aren't going anywhere they are under the direct control of the military.

Under Musharaf the military's children are only being educated, while the rest of Pakistanis' population is full poverty and illiteracy.

Umm do you even live in Pakistan ? Just asking because the sort of comments you seem to be making seem like a highly uninformed point of view from a glasshouse. I don't like Musharaf but the above statement is highly absurd. Literacy ( particularly higher education ) is one department where Musharaf deserves credit.

 

[Zapages]

The majority of Pakistani people don't want anything to do with anything outside of the regions in which they live. I don't think anyone has a problem with the Pakistani people... it's the government or those that aspire to it that scares everyone.

I mean, Pakistan is the one that gave North Korea nukes, so it's hard for me to sit here and say that Pakistan is an ally in the nuclear arms game. They traded the technology to DPRK for ballistic missile technology. (I had a professor whose grandfather was the President of ROK and as a result he has incredible ties in the region.)

Yeah.... But...

The Post, August 15, 2007.

Obituary
HAFEEZ QURESHI, A GREAT SCIENTIST PASSES AWAY.

Sultan Bashiruddin Mahmood

On the night of Miraj-un-Nabih (SAW), Mr. Muhammad Hafeez Qureshi, a great nuclear scientist of Pakistan and a great friend passed away. What other night could have been better for him to start his eternal journey.

He was an unsung hero who always preferred to work in low key and very few people in Pakistan knew him though he was the head of the famous "Wah" Group in Pakistan Atomic Energy Commission, which was responsible for the development of Pakistan's nuclear weapons.

Mr Hafeez Qureshi had a Masters Degree in Nuclear/Mechanical Engineering from Michigan State University. He was the pioneer and founder director of "Wah" Group from its inception in 1974 till early 1990s. He also served as Director-General of Directorate of Technical Development, PAEC. He as head of the "Wah" Group had the distinction of supervising and carrying out Pakistan's cold nuclear test program.

Mr. Hafeez Qureshi was an extremely hard working, dedicated and patriotic scientist. He had a passion to work with his own hands. I remember having met him for the first time in 1963 when we joined PAEC's Lahore Centre, and Mr. Hafeez Qureshi could be seen most of the time in the workshop at the back of the Centre, developing some mechanical devices.

My first direct experience of working with him was in 1967 when Dr. Naeem Ahmad Khan, who was head of Nuclear Physics Division of Lahore Centre, and who on his own initiative began a centrifuge based uranium enrichment study group with Dr. Samar Mubarakmand, Mr. Hafeez Qureshi and myself being its members. Hafeez's enthusiasm was inspiring for all of us and he was known to be adept in the art of solving complex mechanical problems. This group however, could not continue for long at that time as we got dispersed.

Then I got a more intimate opportunity to work side by side Mr. Hafeez Qureshi when we got together again in 1974 under the dynamic leadership of late Mr. Munir Ahmad Khan, chairman PAEC, when he formed various specialized groups within PAEC to make Pakistan a nuclear power. In March 1974, Mr. Munir Ahmad Khan called a meeting and appointed Mr. Hafeez Qureshi as head of the "Wah" Group that was given the task of developing the mechanics of the nuclear device, which was indeed a Herculean task to accomplish in a developing country like Pakistan.

The "Wah" Group's tasks also included development of various high precision mechanical and chemical components, high explosives and triggering mechanisms for nuclear weapons. Mr. Hafeez Qureshi took this as a challenge with great confidence and provided a remarkable leadership in carrying out this most complex job in the shortest possible time. As of late 1974, I was heading the uranium enrichment project, so we were supposed to supplement each other and we used to have many crucial technical meetings, sometimes alone and sometimes with Mr. Munir Ahmad Khan.

Mr. Hafeez Qureshi led his team through his personal example and shared his knowledge openly and frankly with his junior colleagues at great length. His attention to detail was another one of his personality traits that enabled him to lead his team to success. He was a very humble, deeply religious and impeccably honest person who was imbued with a spirit of sacrifice and he would happily share credit with his team members for all the work that was accomplished in his guidance.

Many scientists who worked with Mr. Hafeez Qureshi as a team, emerged under his guidance as scientists of great repute and capability, prominent among them Dr. Samar Mubarakmand. Mr Hafeez Qureshi has left behind a great legacy of honesty, self-sacrifice and splendid work ethics in which he, true to the work culture of PAEC, believed and followed the principle of not working for credit, fame or money, but as a lifelong commitment to serve Pakistan.

After retirement from PAEC, Mr. Hafeez Qureshi continued to serve the country and remained associated with Pakistan's strategic programmes till his death. In his death, the nation has lost a great man and I personally a great colleague and friend. In recognition of his contribution to Pakistan's nuclear programme, he was awarded the Sitara-I-Imtiaz by the Government of Pakistan.

His death reminds me of another great scientist, Abdul Majid Chaudhry, who left us a few months ago. What an ungrateful nation we are that our great heroes pass away and yet they remain unsung and our younger generation continues to remain deprived of the knowledge of their contribution and service to Pakistan.

I wish him eternal happiness in the world hereafter and pray that may Almighty Allah accept his great contribution to Pakistan's nuclear programme. I also pray that the Almighty may also grant the fortitude and strength to his family to overcome his tragic loss.

The writer is former Director General (Nuclear Power) of Pakistan Atomic Energy Commission.

About uranium enrichment, there can be no enrichment without the following steps which form part of the front end of the nuclear fuel cycle.

1) Uranium exploration and prospection
2) Uranium Mining, Refining and Production of Yellow Cake
3) Uranium Conversion and Production of Uranium Hexafluoride gas or UF6, which is the form in which uranium is enriched through all methods. It is this gas which is enriched through the gas-centrifuges to weapons grade.

Enrichment does not begin at KRL altogether. UF6 is as critical to enrichment as are the centrifuges. And producing UF6 is no child's play either. It involves the complete mastery over fluorine chemistry and production of hydrofluoric acid which is used to treat the yellow cake which is converted first into uranium tetrafluoride and then into UF6. UF6 is highly corrosive and toxic and presents immense personal hazards to men and machine alike. Iran has been able to construct working centrifuges, so had Iraq, and Libya too got them from AQ Khan. But without the UF6, the feed material that is supposed to be enriched, they have proven to be useless. In Iran's case, it is still struggling to produce purity free high quality UF6 by the ton. There is no other way that enrichment can be done, either by centrifuge or diffusion, the two known industrial scale production processes. To produce UF6, PAEC set up a series of 7 chemical plants and a yellow cake plant at Baghalchur

Enriching uranium is not the end of the story. After enriched uranium, it has to be converted into metal without which the enriched uranium cannot be used in the core of the nuclear device. Then complete mastery over the nuclear weapons design, development and testing has to be acquired. This in itself is very high technology. In the last 50 years, three large and well known US Labs have been engaged in warhead design and development R&D. If bomb design and development was so easy, then why would the US dedicated three of its main nuclear labs, namely, Los Alamos, Sandia and Lawrence Livermore National Labs to nuclear weapons design and development?

So to be able to build a deliverable nuclear weapon, an implosion design has to be perfected. This includes very complex physics calculations, developing a neutron trigger, developing highly specialised high-explosive lenses which are symmetrically arranged in a circle around the core of the device. Inside the core, a few grams of tritium is also used to boost the overall yield of the bomb. Then it also requires complete mastery over high speed electronics and developing sophisticated triggering circuits to detonate the high explosives simultaneously with the precision of ONE NANO SECOND. At this precise moment, the neutron trigger also needs to be initiated which may either be polonium-210 mixed with beryllium metal or tritium itself. Then you need neutron reflectors/ tampers of U-238. All this has to be built with very high precision and packaged together so that it can be easily carried by an aircraft or missile. Then you will need testing capabilities, which again requires very high precision electronics and high speed computers to record the data in a split second of the performance and yield of the bomb during a cold or hot test. A dependable and working nuclear device can only be made possible after it is proven in cold or hot tests. For this PAEC developed different specialized groups for each of these technologies, working under its Directorate of Technical Development (DTD)

Then, apart from enriched uranium, there is another material used in atomic bombs, which is much more powerful, efficient and destructive, and that is plutonium. That is why Plutonium has been the first choice of every country that built an arsenal of nuclear weapons. For that a country will have to have an indigenous nuclear fuel fabrication capability to produce fuel for a natural uranium fuelled, heavy water moderated nuclear reactor like KANUPP or KHUSHAB, which produce plutonium in their spent fuel. This also requires a reprocessing capability to extract the plutonium-239 from the spent fuel. Tritium is also obtained from heavy water reactors. Again this PU-239 will have to be converted into metal to be used in a bomb. Also, tritium is the material used in building thermonuclear or hydrogen bombs. And building neutron, high yield atomic or hydrogen bombs is all about nuclear weapons designs. It takes only 3-4 kg of PU-239 for one atomic bomb compared to 20-25 kg of highly enriched uranium for the same bomb. Also, plutonium bombs are the best and ideally suited for missiles and aircraft because with plutonium, the bombs can easily be made small in size but greater in yield, thus making advanced compact warheads possible. Uranium cannot be miniaturized beyond a certain limit. That is why uranium bombs are bulkier, heavy and difficult to be fitted onto missiles. For this PAEC developed the Khushab plutonium production reactor, a nuclear fuel fabrication plant that also produces indigenous fuel for Karachi nuclear power plant (KANUPP) , a heavy water plant, a tritium production plant and a reprocessing plant at New Labs.

The uranium enrichment project itself was begun by PAEC in 1974 whose manpower had all come from PAEC, and by 1976, critical materials, machines and equipment needed for the plant were put in place by PAEC, in addition to the procurement of know-how of designs of the centrifuge and setting up of complete uranium enrichment plant from Italy, among other sources. PAEC also had complete designs of Zippe-type centrifuge from open scientific literature which is the basis of all centrifuge designs. KRL was able to develop centrifuges due to indigenous effort by its scientists and engineers.

So to accomplish all this, PAEC established the following high technology laboratories and projects from 1972 to the mid 1990s. This was all done by PAEC scientists and engineers under a nuclear engineer, Munir Ahmad Khan, in over 20 labs and projects, every one the size of KRL.

1. Theoretical Physics Group
2. Fast Neutron Physics Group
3. Diagnostics Group
4. Wah Group
5. Trigger Mechanism Group
6. Tritium Production Plant
7. Heavy Water Plant
8. Plutonium Production Khushab reactor
9. New Labs reprocessing plant
10. Baghalchur uranium refining and yellow cake plant
11. Chemcial Production Complex for UF6 production (This consists of 7 chemical plants)
12. Kundian Nuclear Fuel Complex
13. Uranium Metal Lab
14. Centre for Nuclear Studies
15. Karachi Nuclear Power Training Centre
16. Zirconium Tube Plant
17. Heavy Mechanical Complex-3
18. National Development Complex (NDC)
19. National Centre for Non-Destructive Testing
20 Pakistan Welding Institute
21. Optic Laser Group
22. PARR-1 & 2
23. Nuclear Materials Division, PINSTECH
24. Radio Isotope and Applications Division, PINSTECH
25. Solid State Nuclear Track Labs
26. 325 MW Chashma nuclear plant
27. Uranium Enrichment Project as Project-706.
28. Quality Assurance Labs
29. Directorate of Technical Procurement
30. Chaghi and Kharan hot test sites
31. Kirana Hills cold test sites
32. Computer Training Centre

So as Libya, Iran, North Korea (that has a plutonium program also) and Iraq all had been successful in either building or procuring ready-made centrifuges, then why is it that they have not been able to produce a bomb that uses enriched uranium? North Korea had a plutonium program and its nuclear test was based on a bomb that used plutonium at its core. Whatever AQ Khan gave to Iran or Libya was only one small part of enrichment technology which itself is one part of the nuclear fuel cycle, which again is one part of a nuclear weapons program.

For any country that wishes to build a bomb, the above-mentioned technologies have to be mastered, every one of which is critical to bomb making. Uranium enrichment is not needed if a country has a plutonium program.

Pakistan became a nuclear power on May 28, 1998 when PAEC successfully demonstrated Pakistan's nuclear capability by exploding 5 atomic bombs that were all boosted fission devices of various yields. It was all the culmination of a huge team effort that essentially began with the setting up of PAEC in 1956. AQ Khan was only 1/20 th part of a very big nuclear program and KRL like PAEC owes it success to the team effort of its scientists and engineers.

As for Ghauri, it is a liquid fuelled missile that needs hours of preparation and fuelling time before launch. It was essentially a North Korean No-Dong missile (like Anza) that was painted Ghauri on its first test. Later NDC and NESCOM took over this missile's development work also. Ghauri has now been eclipsed by a whole range of read to fire, solid fuelled missiles built by PAEC/NDC and now NESCOM.

 

[Pellham]

This is really depressing news. RIP Bhutto.

 

[norinrad21]

It was a matter of time though, these fanatics were bent on killing her and unfortunately this one succeeded in finally getting to her.

 

[Supaman223]

Never change, Fox.

Wow that guy is all over the place, here is his pic on BBC's website.

 

[Hcoregamer00]

Bush: Musharraf believes in democracy. If all his strong opponents are dead or afraid of campaigning because "someone" killed one of them, its still a democracy. Oh yeah, and Chavez is a totalitarian tyrant who'll force through his communist agenda at any chance.

What the fuck?

Someone died here, at least give them some respect and don't politicize it.

 

[GSG Flash]

My parents are in Karachi right now and were supposed to leave today but now may not be able to, they chose the worst time to come back because they have a blockade of all the roads in Karachi.

I personally don't think Musharraf did this, I think it was some asshole Talibani who did it, they are the ones who want to destabilize the country so that they can come in with their militias and take over the country.

 

[Azih]

Musharaf has the support of MQM and the Army. There's been proof of what they've wanted to do so, as Altaf Hussain gave a speech once about it.

You mean the speech that he denied giving?

Musharaf in my opinion is more corrupt than them two. Musharraf overthrow Shariff because he was limiting the military's power/money.

Mushaff's coup happened like this.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/6960670.stm

Under Musharaf the military's children are only being educated, while the rest of Pakistanis' population is full poverty and illiteracy.

Man, this has been true for decades so is hardly a unique feature of Musharraf's rule. I remember pamphlets being distrubuted in engineering associations (my father's an engineer) that complained about millitary children getting great free education and that was when I was young. The army has always looked after itself. As *administrations* go, Sharif and Bhutto where hella corrupt.

I have??? I've been saying that News is coming in that Musharaf or the military are involved... Its not like I'm believing that. You're the doing assuming on your part.

That's fine and I hope no one who read your post assumed that it was a done deal.

 

[Zapages]

I personally don't think Musharraf did this, I think it was some asshole Talibani who did it, they are the ones who want to destabilize the country so that they can come in with their militias and take over the country.

Sorry to hear about your parents...

But I have a hard time believing that talibani people would want to do that. It definitely would not be in their interest.

 

[norinrad21]

And have we all forgotten that Musharraf himself has been a target of plenty of assassination attempts?

This is true, the fanatics have attempted many times to off Musharraf.

 

[Azih]

I don't know, what with the accusations of Musharraf being a puppet and trying to 'change Pakistan's culture'. The same charges were levelled against Bhutto. That's kinda all Taliban types need to start trying to kill people.

Sharif is the only one immune to those kinds of attacks becuase he has the support of muslim parties.

 

[Yixian]

Wow I did not expect this O_O Damn, this does not bode well. Bhutto was a centrist really, I would have preferred her to be a little more radical, but even so, she was a great woman, and this could trigger a LOT of trouble in Pakistan...