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[Count Dookkake]

Dated mechanics? Please.

It's just that most devs these days don't have the guts to pull off an old-school Castlevania style action game.

If anything we need a return to the roots like yesterday. The kind of game where nothing can be taken lightly, the smallest foe can prove to be the biggest danger, attacks that take 1/8 to 1/4 of a lifebar and have a tendency to knock heroes into pits, and so on.

The mechanics in action games these days allow for too much freedom at times.

"Oh you jumped forward but lo you're hopping right into a nest of enemies. Well no big deal just turn around in mid-air and move back, or just double-jump over the nest entirely".

"An enemy is running towards you but luckily you swing your sword so quickly they can't even hope to touch you."

"Pits? Never heard of them."

Stuff like that I dunno. It's too commonplace these days. Maybe that's what the people want but who cares? Not every game needs to play the same.

:lol

 

[PepsimanVsJoe]

Um you can continue in Mario 1. Hell I think you can continue in Mario Land 1 as well.

Actually I'm not even going to bother with seriousposting cause Annoy certainly isn't.

 

[radios shipping overview]

yes, it was fucken satisfying to beat the game, all the current games are pussy shit compared to it
but, the mechanic is broken, that's why it was replaced

of course i dont mind playing the original formula, but it's dated, that's why you dont see these games as often

It's not broken, and it's not dated. Easier games where it's more difficult to lose your progress sell better. That's all. It's true that you don't see that many of these games nowadays, and because of that, most developers don't know how to make a difficulty, arcade-style game that plays well (see Igavania). Those of us who still like this style, the style traditional Castlevania is a part of are going to defend anything like it to the death.

You've had seven straight 2D Igavanias since the last traditional Castlevania. If you don't like this, GTFO and play one of those.

if castlevania did not shift to the metroidvania status, i would have abandoned the franchise

I would not cry if this were to happen.

 

[MoxManiac]

well yeah, but how would you like it if in mario galaxy 2, you are killed in 1 hit if you dont have a power up
yes, it's you can play it and finish it, but it would just be frustrating

or how about 3 lives, when ur dead, you start all the way from the beginning

The game would be balanced appropriately for that, obviously.

I don't know why you're using Mario as an example, they are all piss easy with the exception of lost levels, whether it's 2 hits your dead SMB1 or 6 hits SMB64.

 

[ace harding: private eye]

you just cant complete the game

Yeah-huh!

if castlevania did not shift to the metroidvania status, i would have abandoned the franchise
of course i dont mind playing the original formula, but it's dated, that's why you dont see these games as often

Calling a formula "dated" is marketing nonsense you most likely read enough times that you actually believe it. It's the same as when games jumped to 3D, because 2D graphics are totally yesterday.
The only reason we don't see many 2D platformers these days is because corporate marketing departments have essentially forced consumers into believing that advancements in technology dictate game research & development, and that anything created in the old style should be considered "retro" and cheaply developed / distributed.
2D platformers can't be taken seriously any more; look how the new Rocket Knight is being marketed as "retro," even though it's got 3D high-resolution graphics.

 

[Flying_Phoenix]

Am I the only one who really dislikes Konami's new sprite work for their "rebirths"?

 

[cartman414]

Absolutely; the DS games have great control, graphics, music, and concepts, but all have the glaring flaw of copy-and-paste map design.
To me, it's worse than backtracking to go through a new level, only to have the same exact setup of obstacles as seen in a previous stage. Or to go through one level that consists of a straight line with no platforms.
IGA seemed to place more focus on slaughtering onslaughts of enemies, which is fun, but eventually tiring, and not really the point of Castlevania. Then again, I don't like games like Devil May Cry, so I'm probably in the minority on this.
With the exception of Harmony of Dissonance, IGA's castles were never really creepy either.

Hardly. I'd rather have less backtracking than less copy-and-paste if I could only choose one of the two. At least with the former there's less wasted time.

And Harmony was hardly creepy.

i love this game. i love everything about it top to bottom. even simon's goofy centurion outfit. i've beaten castlevania , c.v.3, c.v.4, dracula x, symphony of the night, the three gba games, two of the ds games (haven't gotten to o.o.e. yet; or, rather, i am stuck at the fucking lighthouse with the stupid crab monster), and lament of innocence

. . . and of all those, if we exclude the more exploratory games and look strictly at the action, i enjoyed c.v.4 the most. i like that it's not punishingly hard, the game looks dope, i love the soundtrack, and it's just straight up fun to play.

good times when that came out on v.c. beat it straight through. i think that was the first game i played with my classic controller, too.

I thought SCV4 was a little too easy, really, due to various design decisions, such as the multidirectional flail action whip, along with the smaller depth of field, which in combination made most enemies too easy to reach. Not to mention of course that few enemies were designed to be threats to the more capable Simon, and older enemies required less finesse.

And it became kind of boring given the sheer length, as it was the longest linear single-trek Castlevania, to the point of overkill. (Rondo of Blood and Dracula's Curse had more stages, but wisely split them between different paths.)

Oh, and the crab from OoE has a different sort of weak point.

 

[tetrisgrammaton]

I know its a sin, but this will be my first Rebirth title.

 

[Kyouji]

if castlevania did not shift to the metroidvania status, i would have abandoned the franchise

Looking forward to trying this baby; don't let me down, Konami.

 

[ITA84]

Um you can continue in Mario 1. Hell I think you can continue in Mario Land 1 as well.

In Mario Land you need to reach a certain score to get a continue.

 

[TunaLover]

Am I the only one who really dislikes Konami's new sprite work for their "rebirths"?

Gradius ones were alright, but nothing breathtaking, at least they manage conserve the original style intact.

Contra, I didn't like at all, but then again I never was a big fan of Contra sprites, my favorite Contra is Operation C for GB for reference.

The new Castlevania ReBirth, I really liked the old school, barbarian style they give to the game, I prefer it over some anime style, the exception is Dracula X, I really like it.

 

[andymcc]

I thought SCV4 was a little too easy, really, due to various design decisions, such as the multidirectional flail action whip, along with the smaller depth of field, which in combination made most enemies too easy to reach. Not to mention of course that few enemies were designed to be threats to the more capable Simon, and older enemies required less finesse.

And it became kind of boring given the sheer length, as it was the longest linear single-trek Castlevania, to the point of overkill. (Rondo of Blood and Dracula's Curse had more stages, but wisely split them between different paths.)

the game was not only too easy, but the mode-7 stages are so gimmicky and terrible that they just make you laugh when played nowadays, the chandelier part makes me want to puke. some of the stages were the very definition of boring (the goddamned treasury stage, looked like it could of come from a Disney platformer, the caverns, yawn...), boss battles were some of the least interesting in the series history (CVIII is kind of guilty of this too, but i'll cut it slack since its stages are way awesome)...

what it really boils down to is that bloodlines and rondo both destroy SCVIV for lots of reasons. :lol

 

[stuminus3]

the game was not only too easy, but the mode-7 stages are so gimmicky and terrible that they just make you laugh when played nowadays, the chandelier part makes me want to puke.

Yet 18 years later, even my wife remembers the swinging chandeliers.

Gimmicky, but memorable.

 

[Flying_Phoenix]

Gradius ones were alright, but nothing breathtaking, at least they manage conserve the original style intact.

Contra, I didn't like at all, but then again I never was a big fan of Contra sprites, my favorite Contra is Operation C for GB for reference.

The new Castlevania ReBirth, I really liked the old school, barbarian style they give to the game, I prefer it over some anime style, the exception is Dracula X, I really like it.

I think it could just be the resolution and style they make the pixels in. It's so...ugh to me.

 

[Epic Tier 3 Engineer]

I feel like the only person that appreciates both styles.

Yeah, I want a new old school Castlevania. I also set my clock by Metroidvania releases and play them compulsively until they're 100% completed. So this rebirth stuff is all good! In fact, give us a PSP remake of Super Castlevania IV while you're at it.

 

[duckroll]

I think it could just be the resolution and style they make the pixels in. It's so...ugh to me.

They're not good because M2 is not an all round developer. They're my favorite retro reverse engineering developer there is, because of the excellent Sega Ages ports, and their work on the Salamander Collection on PSP, etc. They also work on all the Sega's VC titles on the Wii. But they don't generally do all round development + graphical assets. So considering they're working on 10 buck WiiWare games, it's not surprising that the artwork looks like a cheap rom hack of some sort. Still, I hear they play and run very well.

 

[beelzebozo]

I thought SCV4 was a little too easy, really, due to various design decisions, such as the multidirectional flail action whip, along with the smaller depth of field, which in combination made most enemies too easy to reach. Not to mention of course that few enemies were designed to be threats to the more capable Simon, and older enemies required less finesse.

And it became kind of boring given the sheer length, as it was the longest linear single-trek Castlevania, to the point of overkill. (Rondo of Blood and Dracula's Curse had more stages, but wisely split them between different paths.)

Oh, and the crab from OoE has a different sort of weak point.

yeah, it should be said that questions of difficulty balance that leans toward "a little too easy" will never bother me whatsoever. i don't mind if a game isn't ball-bustingly difficult so long as i'm having a good time and enjoying the sights, and with c.v.4 i always did/do. he's a centurion dude. look at him. he's wearing a skirt, and the only reason he does this is because he realized that he needed to tone down his bad assery. if he wore a leather jacket and some shades the world would fucking implode under the weight of the coolness.

and i will never finish o.o.e., because i hate that crab.

 

[FrostuTheNinja]

and i will never finish o.o.e., because i hate that game.

Edited for the way I feel about it.

I've always considered Rondo to be the best in the series, with it's branching paths and such.

 

[Sagitario]

Oh man, the ending to that boss fight is probably the best in the history of the franchise!
You'll smack yourself upside the head when you realize why you can't finish the fight, and once you do see the boss' demise, you'll crack a smile at the very least.

Indeed...

And if you don't go for the medal, it's actually an easy boss fight...

 

[charlequin]

Am I the only one who really dislikes Konami's new sprite work for their "rebirths"?

Apparently people FLIP THE FUCK OUT when one says so, but no, you're not.

 

[Aru]

I feel like the only person that appreciates both styles.

Yeah, I want a new old school Castlevania. I also set my clock by Metroidvania releases and play them compulsively until they're 100% completed. So this rebirth stuff is all good! In fact, give us a PSP remake of Super Castlevania IV while you're at it.

There is room for both.
If we could get one old style CV game once, then a Metroidvania, old style... in a cycle way, it would be great (instead of getting one Metroidvania every year and a half).

But with Lords of Shadow rebooting the series, if the game sells well, we will only get LoS sequels IMO.

There are already 3 CV games on DS. Do you think they will do more ?

I'm not sure.

For me it's not impossible they stop doing CV games on DS and start making adaptations of Lords of Shadow on PSP.

 

[Davey Cakes]

SCVIV gets hate?

It's my second-favorite of the classic Castlevania's, behind CVIII and just ahead of Rondo.

 

[andymcc]

SCVIV gets hate?

It's my second-favorite of the classic Castlevania's, behind CVIII and just ahead of Rondo.

not by most, i just have an unbridled hatred for it.

 

[jepjepjep]

Has M2 been confirmed as the developer? I love those guys. They also did the Fantasy Zone II remake for sega ages which was awesome.

They're not good because M2 is not an all round developer. They're my favorite retro reverse engineering developer there is, because of the excellent Sega Ages ports, and their work on the Salamander Collection on PSP, etc. They also work on all the Sega's VC titles on the Wii. But they don't generally do all round development + graphical assets. So considering they're working on 10 buck WiiWare games, it's not surprising that the artwork looks like a cheap rom hack of some sort. Still, I hear they play and run very well.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

And a quick comparison to sprites from previous games.

Rebirth sprite palette has too many similarly dark colors for too few pixels and come across as overly blended with not nearly enough classic sprite low to high color contrast and saturation on the high end. The end result is like the Contra Rebirth where the look is dull and flat...almost seeming continually-shadowed rather than popping or standing apart from the screen as the classic titles' sprites tend to but still adhering to the screen color scheme so that it doesn't seem completely divorced from that place. And with it being already so dark, the almost black outlines don't help.

 

[cartman414]

yeah, it should be said that questions of difficulty balance that leans toward "a little too easy" will never bother me whatsoever. i don't mind if a game isn't ball-bustingly difficult so long as i'm having a good time and enjoying the sights, and with c.v.4 i always did/do. he's a centurion dude. look at him. he's wearing a skirt, and the only reason he does this is because he realized that he needed to tone down his bad assery. if he wore a leather jacket and some shades the world would fucking implode under the weight of the coolness.

The thing is, old-school Castlevania games need that finesse-based challenge factor to tie it together, otherwise the slow, methodical pacing essentially becomes slow and plodding, because there's little point to it, especially since in IV there are more stages than in any other game of its type to journey through in a single playthrough.

Rondo of Blood for me was the one in the series that had the balance just right, and some people say that that game was too easy.

and i will never finish o.o.e., because i hate that crab.

Have you ever beaten the crab? I'd tell you how, but I don't remember how to do spoilers here.

 

[octopusman]

Rebirth sprite palette has too many similarly dark colors for too few pixels and come across as overly blended with not nearly enough classic sprite low to high color contrast and saturation on the high end. The end result is like the Contra Rebirth where the look is dull and flat...almost seeming continually-shadowed rather than popping or standing apart from the screen as the classic titles' sprites tend to but still adhering to the screen color scheme so that it doesn't seem completely divorced from that place. And with it being already so dark, the almost black outlines don't help.

I don't know what you just said, but I like the look.

 

[duckroll]

Has M2 been confirmed as the developer? I love those guys. They also did the Fantasy Zone II remake for sega ages which was awesome.

M2 developed both previous Rebirth games, so there's no reason to think they're not developing all of them.

 

[Lyte Edge]

I gotta figure out how to get my Japanese Wii updated but still keep the homebrew stuff on there...must buy this at launch.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

I don't know what you just said, but I like the look.

Eh, never mind me. I'm just smoking too much dope and killing time on the internet. CV Rebirth does look really good, but the main sprite just looks too blended for my tastes. Strangely, it reminds me of some questionable Amiga/ST spritework from long ago.

 

[Gilby]

Eh, never mind me. I'm just smoking too much dope and killing time on the internet. CV Rebirth does look really good, but the main sprite just looks too blended for my tastes. Strangely, it reminds me of some questionable Amiga/ST spritework from long ago.

It does look pretty blendy, but it's just one frame. It could be a little lighter in other frames.

 

[cartman414]

Yeah, it has that saturated VGA look to it, which doesn't work here.

 

[Foffy]

M2 developed both previous Rebirth games, so there's no reason to think they're not developing all of them.

But didn't IGA help with Contra ReBirth?

What'll the IGA-haters do if he has a more prominent role in Adventure ReBirth?

 

[Anony]

oh please duckroll
i stated merely stated my opinions here, and note that i did not mean to say the old mechnics were bad, but indicated that there were flaws in it
and you shitstormed and called me out for being being a pussy and say i should get a new hobby

someone sure is mad

and no, i did not imply 2d is dead too, where the fuck did that come from

and yeah, i'm looking forward to this dont get me wrong

 

[ace harding: private eye]

But didn't IGA help with Contra ReBirth?

What'll the IGA-haters do if he has a more prominent role in Adventure ReBirth?

IGA helped out with Contra, but more important were Nobuya Nakazato's obvious touches to the game.
I love and hate IGA, because he's a genuine fan of the series, and has great ideas, but just isn't a good leader. I'm sure the combination of IGA and M2 will only result in good things, though.

 

[duckroll]

But didn't IGA help with Contra ReBirth?

What'll the IGA-haters do if he has a more prominent role in Adventure ReBirth?

He did? Wasn't he just credited under "special thanks" or something?

 

[Nessus]

Am I the only one who really dislikes Konami's new sprite work for their "rebirths"?

What's wrong with Contra: Rebirth?

 

[lyre]

I think that's a new skeleton sprite.

It looks like it's based on the GBA's Harmony of Dissonance skeleton sprite:

yeah, no one told you to powerup in CoE or any of the metroidvanias
why dont you play it with your first weapon and dont equip any equipment
dont save while you're at it
then you'd practically be playing the original castlevania practically

I played OoE this way (save the not saving part since the game is so long) and it's STILL nothing like classic CV games. Hell, I did this with all three DS games; it's still no replacement for classics.

That's all. It's true that you don't see that many of these games nowadays, and because of that, most developers don't know how to make a difficulty, arcade-style game that plays well (see Igavania).

IGA has also shown he can't remake an existing game up to current standards either. Good thing I got my copy from a pawn shop.

But with Lords of Shadow rebooting the series, if the game sells well, we will only get LoS sequels IMO.

There are already 3 CV games on DS. Do you think they will do more ?

For consoles, definitely if it sells. But there'll very likely be a fourth DS game slated for next year, in addition to MM10 for download.

What's wrong with Contra: Rebirth?

Only 5 levels and not up to par with Contra 4 all around.

 

[OnWarmerMusic]

yeah, no one told you to powerup in CoE or any of the metroidvanias
why dont you play it with your first weapon and dont equip any equipment
dont save while you're at it
then you'd practically be playing the original castlevania practically

You take that back. Take it back!

 

[duckroll]

Only 5 levels and not up to par with Contra 4 all around.

Yeah, well to be fair, Contra 4 was 40 bucks, and Contra Rebirth is 10 bucks.

 

[lyre]

40 bucks USD to you maybe, but 30, 20, 20 (used), 15, 10 (used), and 10(used) USD for me respectively. And yes, I did buy 6 copies of Contra 4 and gave all but two of them away, thankyouverymuch.

Also, Contra 4 has far more unlockables than Rebirth and also that wonderful Challenge mode (not to mention better sprites, animation, music, everything else).

 

[ace harding: private eye]

40 bucks USD to you maybe, but 30, 20, 20 (used), 15, 10 (used), and 10(used) USD for me respectively. And yes, I did buy 6 copies of Contra 4 and gave all but two of them away, thankyouverymuch.

Also, Contra 4 has far more unlockables than Rebirth and also that wonderful Challenge mode (not to mention better sprites, animation, music, everything else).

I personally found Contra Rebirth to be much more fun and creatively refreshing than Contra 4, which focused too heavily on Contra 1 for source material. Both games have lame unlockable characters, because there's nothing particularly different about who you choose to play as other than color and voice. They need to bring back crazy Hard Corps weapons.
Actually, I think Neo Contra has the best unlockables, particularly the Gradius weapon set.

 

[cartman414]

I personally found Contra Rebirth to be much more fun and creatively refreshing than Contra 4, which focused too heavily on Contra 1 for source material. Both games have lame unlockable characters, because there's nothing particularly different about who you choose to play as other than color and voice. They need to bring back crazy Hard Corps weapons.
Actually, I think Neo Contra has the best unlockables, particularly the Gradius weapon set.

I haven't played ReBirth yet, but it appears to be once again stuck between run-n-gun and setpiece like Contra 3. Not a bad thing, but I think it should skew more in the direction of the former, like Contra 4 did.

 

[Davey Cakes]

I don't care what the game looks like. All I know is, I'm getting a new classic-style Castlevania game. That's enough for me.

 

[beelzebozo]

to your question about the crab, no, i've never beaten the stupid thing :lol

i always get up to the point where you have to launch yourself back and forth with the magnet and it kills me. i turn off my ds and i go to joe's crab shack and exact my revenge. six months later, the cycle repeats itself.

 

[DDayton]

In SMB and the SNES version of Super Mario World you would go from Fire Mario (or cape) to small whenever you took a hit. All other versions would take him down to Super Mario only (including the GBA version of World).

The Japanese version of SMB3 did the same thing. It wasn't until SMAS that NCL changed that scheme.

 

[lyre]

I personally found Contra Rebirth to be much more fun and creatively refreshing than Contra 4, which focused too heavily on Contra 1 for source material. Both games have lame unlockable characters, because there's nothing particularly different about who you choose to play as other than color and voice. They need to bring back crazy Hard Corps weapons.
Actually, I think Neo Contra has the best unlockables, particularly the Gradius weapon set.

I found the levels in Rebirth to move a bit too slow for my liking since I can plow thru C4 in roughly 20-30 minutes (including the on rails levels); but then again, I've only beaten Rebirth about 4 times so I'm not completely familiar with the game (except for the autoscrolling part in the third and last level, those can die in a fire).

And I wasn't speaking only about the unlockable characters, I was more referring to the other unlockables, ie Challenge mode, Contra, Super C, and the scans.

Though more variety in characters is always welcomed, that I can agree with.

 

[Allan Holdsworth]

Is Super Castlevania 4 really "easy"? It's the only classic CV game I completed, I thought it was pretty challenging, particularly the last stage. Spot-on difficulty wise. I'm guessing it's only easy when compared to the NES CVs.
Is it harder/easier than the PSP version of Rondo of Blood?

 

[PepsimanVsJoe]

I played through SCIV twice earlier(on both difficulties) and its easiness knows few boundaries.
One of the biggest ways SCIV could have improved its difficulty is by placing enemies where they would be dangerous. All too often I'd notice that enemies would be placed in positions were they really aren't all that tough to get around or defeat. Like even if we took the multidirectional swinging out of the picture(which almost breaks the game at times) the monsters would still tend to be in places where they aren't much of a threat.

Like you'd have a bone pillar sitting on a block at the top of a staircase or just a bit out of the way so that they aren't firing away while you're trying to climb some stairs. You'd have axe armors all over the place but they're not much of a threat at all when they're by themselves. At most you'll get a swarm of those bats that like to dive down at an angle every now and then. I've taken more damage from those bastards than anything else in the game.

It also doesn't help that everything does less damage and there's those chicken legs hidden in candles, which means health is never hard to replenish.
Castlevania III nailed the importance of enemy placement. Granted that game had less to work with as there are far less enemy types and stage designs. This gave the developer a better opportunity to focus on what they have and the game turned out all the better for it.

For example on the second to last stage there's a nasty section where the player has to climb a staircase while being assaulted by bone pillars and flying skeletons. Even after adapting to the skeletons' rather unique pattern there's still the pillars that are placed in just the right location where every single one of them is a threat. It's a short area really but since the entire time is usually spent on a staircase(where you're not exactly free to move around) it really turns into a brilliantly methodical game. As a bonus there's an axe armor waiting at the top. It's just one axe armor but he's located at the top of a short staircase. Sure you can go up the stairs and contend with him but you have to be wary that you can't duck his axe as it will cause Trevor to start walking downstairs where he'll get clobbered by the axe.

On the other hand CVIII could still benefit from having enemies do less damage. Actually strike that the damage enemies do is fine...at first. What bugs me the most is that as the player progresses the enemies start to do more damage. So not only is the intensity greater due to more enemies and stronger combinations of them they also hit harder. That's unbalanced IMO. It doesn't help that for the most part the bosses are pretty damn weak. Sure it's a nice break from the wickedly difficult levels but eh oh well(The doppelganger sucks though. I hate him/her/it)..

 

[andymcc]

Is Super Castlevania 4 really "easy"? It's the only classic CV game I completed, I thought it was pretty challenging, particularly the last stage. Spot-on difficulty wise. I'm guessing it's only easy when compared to the NES CVs.
Is it harder/easier than the PSP version of Rondo of Blood?

i think Rondo of Blood is a little harder than SCV4, but they both are the easiest classic CV games, in all fairness.