Ass of Can Whooping
Member
The hacking system they showcased in the demo did not exist. It was put in for the wow factor. The breach protocol system is just bog standard and boring.
What part of that do you not get?
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CD Projekt Red CEO responds to Jason Schreiers bad article
- Thread starter TVexperto
- Start date
The hacking system they showcased in the demo did not exist. It was put in for the wow factor. The breach protocol system is just bog standard and boring.
What part of that do you not get?
Ass of Can Whooping
Member
So what's your experience in game development then?
You said that hacking doesn't exist and then you moved goal post that it is not exactly the same as in demo.
It is not like in demo. It is better. But somehow it is wrong because you don't have argument other than trolling.
At least he played the game instead of talking out of ass like you.
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Ass of Can Whooping
Member
No I didn't. Learn to read
I was wondering when this predicable loser argument would pop up
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SafeOrAlone
Banned
I don't think CDPR has any hill to die on here. This response digs the hole deeper.
What stood out to me is his response to missing game features. He isn't wrong when he says it's a common occurrence for features to come and go as a game develops, but there still needs to be accountability, or at least strong communication, when it happens at this scope. Very strong communication or you risk losing all trust.
He points out that creatively, he is still proud of what they accomplished and references the high review scores. It's hard to disagree there. Missing features or not, they crafted an experience, that when working, is praised by many. Make of that what you will, but I find it interesting.
What stood out to me is his response to missing game features. He isn't wrong when he says it's a common occurrence for features to come and go as a game develops, but there still needs to be accountability, or at least strong communication, when it happens at this scope. Very strong communication or you risk losing all trust.
He points out that creatively, he is still proud of what they accomplished and references the high review scores. It's hard to disagree there. Missing features or not, they crafted an experience, that when working, is praised by many. Make of that what you will, but I find it interesting.
harmny
Banned
i have a lot of experience in the film industry which is similar. and friends in the gaming industry. if you think the problem is just that management and leaders are morons you are delusional.
but you know if that's the problem every developer is free of creating their own crunch free studio where every game is polished to a shine with deep systems and a complex simulated world alongside the best story and side content in the industry with photorealistic graphics and lifelike animations. sounds easy enough.
you know cdpr started from 0 both founders were born poor in communist poland so if they can create a big studio everybody can. i can't wait. go ahead developers do it. but of course maybe when you create your own studio and become a manager you are instantly possessed by the soul of bobby kotick and you start pushing bullshit down your developers throats and making them crunch just because you are evil and greedy. what do you think?
mcjmetroid
Member
I mean I don't get this line of logic?
Do YOU guys think it was ready for 2020?
I would say a big no.. so why argue for the sake of arguing just because you don't like Jason?
I'm willing to believe the 20 people they asked because that's exactly what happened.
Ass of Can Whooping
Member
MMaRsu
Banned
Yeah, I havent seen you back up shit either, just talking out of your butthole too.
So stop throwing dirt and say something substantial instead " wuhh E3 demo was so fake literally everything isnt in the game weeeeeeh"
grfunkulus
Banned
Jesus fucking christ, triggered much? The fact that you can get this worked up over an article, which taken in its entirety is pretty tame and not hypercritical given the shitstorm of outrage following the game's release, is as much evidence as one needs to conclude that you're the real snowflake
Ass of Can Whooping
Member
I'm not here to pretend to understand game development just because I have imaginary friends in the game industry
I'm going by the evidence that everyone here has access to, which is the state of the game, the marketing materials, and Jason's article. Am I supposed to believe they were even developing an ambush system when the example they used was just a scriped sequence that they actually just reused in the final game but for a different scene? Nah
I'll stop throwing dirt when people stop using piss poor arguments like "hur dur do you even understand game development?" like what i'm talking about is somehow exclusive to those industrys
But hey if you want to say something substantial instead of just dropping into shit post i'm all ears
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MMaRsu
Banned
I already said on the previous page, it was a vertical slice, everyone who even pays a little amount to the industry knows what this means.
Not to mention the giant not final banner stating that everything is subject to change. Am I bummed some things arent in the game? Sure.
Is the game 2020 GOTY? Hell fucking yes.
Not to mention the giant not final banner stating that everything is subject to change. Am I bummed some things arent in the game? Sure.
Is the game 2020 GOTY? Hell fucking yes.
grfunkulus
Banned
Correct. But they'd rather just scream 'herp derp, owning the libs' without taking a critical eye to half of what was actually said. The following paints a pretty clear picture of the disfunction, and disagreement, at the top of the company. It seems like upper management screwed the pooch on this one and tried to blame the unpolished final product on a situation that, had it's absence been somehow magically endowed upon this studio alone, likely would not have made up for the lack of planning and seemingly awful time management. Plenty of better run studios are putting out quality, AAA products during the pandemic. It's not an excuse for misleading the shareholders and the fans.
"Studio head Adam Badowski took over as director, demanding overhauls to Cyberpunk’s gameplay and story. For the next year, everything was changing, including fundamental elements like the game-play perspective. Top staff who had worked on The Witcher 3 had strong opinions on how Cyberpunk should be made, which clashed with Badowski and lead to the eventual departure of several top developers."
"Employees were working long hours, even though Iwiński told staff that overtime wouldn’t be mandatory on Cyberpunk 2077. More than a dozen workers said they felt pressured to put in extra hours by their managers or coworkers anyway."
"At E3 in June 2019, CD Projekt announced that the game would come out on April 16, 2020. Fans were elated, but internally, some members of the team could only scratch their heads, wondering how they could possibly finish the game by then. One person said they thought the date was a joke. Based on the team’s progress, they expected the game to be ready in 2022"
"Iwiński also said that communication issues resulting from teams working at home amid Covid-19 restrictions meant “a lot of the dynamics we normally take for granted” got lost over video calls or emails. The game’s debut slipped again, to November."
grfunkulus
Banned
Ass of Can Whooping
Member
A verticle slice isn't a free pass for smoke and mirrors marketing
Didn't apply for EA, or Ubisoft (which i'm sure alot of you whining about Jason had no issue with his Anthem article) and doesn't apply for CD
Didn't apply for EA, or Ubisoft (which i'm sure alot of you whining about Jason had no issue with his Anthem article) and doesn't apply for CD
harmny
Banned
As I said. A lot. Similar industries. Many artists work in both so I know how the creative process works.
And I'll tell you something else. I could work in the gaming industry if I wanted. But why would I. Developers are treated like shit online.
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RoadHazard
Gold Member
It's a fact that the game is missing tons of stuff it was promised to have though. "Things change during development", sure, but in this case that sounds like excuses to me. The game is not finished.
And I really hate when people post an image instead of text. I understand it's because of Twitter's character limit, but it's basically unreadable on mobile.
And I really hate when people post an image instead of text. I understand it's because of Twitter's character limit, but it's basically unreadable on mobile.
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Kadayi
Banned
The remote hacking makes more sense. Because otherwise you always have to be, in line of sight, close to a target and they can't be behind glass
It's all very well to bitch about things being removed, but consider how the game would have to be played it you couldn't remote hack?
Same thing with the mantis blade wall climbing.
Cool idea on paper, but then basically players are going to be spending all their time clambering around the city and complaining about places they can't climb or geometry they end up getting stuck in. Shoring up every building to make sure it's not a potential player trap would be a huge waste of developer time.
Did you even watch it? Because you honestly sound like you didn't
It says at the top 'Work in Progress - does nor represent the final look of the game' . things changed.
Not the least of which is that it's pretty clear from when they show the character creator that the opening life paths storylines were probably not even in the game, as instead, you have some flavour choices. You'd have picked your background and gone straight into the Scav mission. All very Mass Effect, but personally....I liked the way they did things with the in-game choices.
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Ass of Can Whooping
Member
What are you on about? That system would have still allowed remote hacking.
Do you mean the nanowire hacking? That one I agree with since it sounded like a redundant feature the moment they talked about it.
Exactly with the mantis blades. Once, again it's overpromising on things that aren't feasable just to look good, and i'm sure the developers knew that while they were instructed to make a ridiculous hour long demo
The Anthem demo was also a work in progress. That little watermark won't save them. They're trying to sell a product, so try and do it in a way that isn't obviously going to piss people off in the end.
It's hilarious. They say they wanted to avoid another Witcher 3 scenario with the whole graphical downgrade debacle, and yet they do it again and on a higher level to boot
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MMaRsu
Banned
?????
MMaRsu
Banned
They are forced by the memory bandwith and possibilities of last gen.
If you dont understand this then lmao
Ass of Can Whooping
Member
The Anthem demo is just like the Cyberpunk demo. It's painful to accept but it's true
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MMaRsu
Banned
Im not talking about the demo im talking about the finished product.
Not only was Anthen released with a severe lack of content for a live service game (which Cyberpunk is not), EA promptly dropped the game while promising to remain working on it.
Yes, there are some features missing from Cyberpunk 2077, but the finished product is not light on content, the story is complete and awesome imo. One of the better most interesting places in videogames, where everything is the same cookie cutter bullshit.
Some folks the city is dead but it certainly never feeled that way to me. I was immersed 99% of the time, barring a few visual glitches.
But I think we can agree to disagree, this isnt a No Mans Sky situation but people certainly seem that to want to be the case, so they can bitch endlessly about a product they did not play.
Kadayi
Banned
LOL. So what would be the point of the direct hacks? It's just a less useful, more problematic way to achieve the same result. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Again what part of 'Work in Progress' don't you quite understand? Game design is an iterative process. Systems, mechanics get overhauled, changed and scrapped all the time. Sometimes they become overpowered, game-breaking or just don't turn out to be fun. It's a balancing act. That is the nature of design. With the Mantis Blade thing, it's a clear case of if you can use Mantis blades for climbing and killing, why bother with any of the other hand mods?
Instead of touting 'they removed this!!' maybe instead ask yourself 'why?' they might have removed it with a view to the reasoning with the context of the design process.
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Hawking Radiation
Member
Um ok, why take it personal? You telling people to get the fuck out when you don't like what they are posting. I told you before, If you don't like what people post, just agree to disagree and move on. No need to be aggressive.
I merely stated you come across as aggressive and unhinged. That is not an insult or personal attack. If you see it that way then I don't know what else to say to you.
Ass of Can Whooping
Member
What the hell are you talking about?
I understand the excuse you keep on repeating and i'll just keep on repeating the same response
Work in progress is a not a free pass for smoke and mirrors marketing
I know why they removed alot of the stuff. The problem isn't that they removed it, the probem is why they were marketing features that were never going to be feasible in the first place.
I knew damn well we were never going to get this advanced AI system they touted. They tacked that on to make the demo sound better. That's all.
Balducci30
Member
Weird attitude. I think most just find this article dumb because it’s redundant. Like none of what is said in it is interesting - the vertical slice showing cut features or systems while sporting a “work in progress subject to change” just isn’t news worthy. In any situation. Be it anthem or any other videogame vertical slice shown at E3. They are always bullshit in some way - so why we acting like this isn’t a completely normal and expected thing? Like I’d get it if CDPR were the only company that did this or one of very few - but almost every AAA game does it so how does that particular piece of info contribute to the conversation? The demo is more similar to the final game than plenty of other vertical slices in the past. Like that, the whole talk of people speaking polish in Poland, and an employee feeling ostracized by that? Like what are these? If your critique is it was rushed and crunch for the employees just stick to that instead of bringing in this other totally par for the course, expected shit.
Except that part where demo is 1:1 in game sans very minor jackie animation or two. And finished game on top of all of that with complete story, 90+ sidequests (not counting gigs or ncpd calls), crapton of content and 1000 other things you never saw since you never played game.
About you hampering like parrot who learned one world about hacking which had different graphics back then but was less useful and probably shit to play vs what we got in the end.
THIS IS WORK IN PROGRESS DOES NOT REPRESENT FINAL GAME
and there is literally narrator that keeps saying what you about to see might not end up in final game.
can you read or not ? do you have working ears ?
But since you talk about "missing features" i gather you don't want to talk about features that are in game that never CDPR promised ? Because naturally you don't give a shit about those.
Like parkour, double jump/charged jump, hover and shitload of other things.
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EDMIX
Member
Agreed. This bullshit excuse sounds like it was behind why CDPR even did those fake videos. I get things can be work in progress and many things can be removed, how come the developer is not telling people this for those all those elements or at the fucking least removing the video from their channel?
https://www.youtube.com/c/CyberpunkGame/videos?view=0&sort=p&flow=grid
So its clear they wish to continue to use that lie to sell the game.
If they are sorry and that was scrapped, fucking make a video about its removal from the game and pull the video from Youtube. I'm not sure how someone can fucking be "sorry" that they mislead consumers and then continue to do so by having the video still up to scam more people.
I think many are now starting to question how much of this marketing was even real development.
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Roni
Gold Member
Anything over 40 hours a week is ridiculous. What are you talking about?
Ass of Can Whooping
Member
The Anthem demo was 1:1 and had smoke and mirror features, same as Cyberpunk
You just keep repeating a legal watermark like public perception is obligated to give two fucks about it.
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Jesus r/cyberpunkgame is bleeding into the forums apparently.
Did CDPR overpromise on the total game offerings. Maybe. I deliberately avoided 98% of all news on this game. I went into my gameplay blind. Did you?
Did people follow every freaking word over eight years and create their own version of the game in their heads. Most assuredly.
Is CDPR, Theranos. HAHAHA god I hope you don't think so.
Is Jason trying to find a new angle to beat a horse to death on? Oh you bet your ass he is. Figure it out, he writes for Bloomberg. News is slow right now, and he is just stoking BS to point to his boss and say, "See I earn my keep. Now give me my paycheck!!1"
Did CDPR overpromise on the total game offerings. Maybe. I deliberately avoided 98% of all news on this game. I went into my gameplay blind. Did you?
Did people follow every freaking word over eight years and create their own version of the game in their heads. Most assuredly.
Is CDPR, Theranos. HAHAHA god I hope you don't think so.
Is Jason trying to find a new angle to beat a horse to death on? Oh you bet your ass he is. Figure it out, he writes for Bloomberg. News is slow right now, and he is just stoking BS to point to his boss and say, "See I earn my keep. Now give me my paycheck!!1"
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I know it is hard to understand written words but it seems like it goes way over you head.
lol. 1:1:
Ass of Can Whooping
Member
Anthem: Core Gameplay + Level structure are representive of the final game w/ fake features for wow factor
Cyberpunk: Core Gameplay + Level structure are representive of the final game w/ fake features for wow factor
It's the same.
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StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
I didn't read Jason's usual dirt digging articles or this tweet. I'll read it later tonight as I'm going to focus on the Chiefs game and then I got to do some work for tomorrow.
But I'm sure Jason vs CDPR will be hilarious to read after dinner.
But I'm sure Jason vs CDPR will be hilarious to read after dinner.
RoadHazard
Gold Member
Were they forced to promise things they couldn't deliver, even pretend like they already had those things when they didn't?
ZehDon
Gold Member
When I double-jump up to the top of a building using my implants, use one of my attribute skill checks to open a ceiling window, slide inside and silently move to the objective using my skill checks, hacking cameras to turn them off and re-setting optics on guards that cross my path using my hacking abilities, only for it all to go tits up during the final stretch and have to shoot my way out, taking cover, lobbing grenades, and generally turning everyone into red mist, occasionally dropping a Suicide or Reset Systems quick-hack on my opponents, every single system just interacted in one mission that took less than 10 minutes. Heck, my shooting skills and attributes are really quite pathetic, so running and gunning isn't particularly effective and I have to rely on those quick hacks to create openings in the flow of combat for me to survive; I get torn to sheds in some combat encounters. So, I really have to ask this one quite honestly: have you played the game? Because, across my nearly 60 hours so far, the interactions of the RPG, stealth, combat, and hacking systems is omnipresent. It makes the augmentation and hacking sub-systems in Deus Ex look primitive in comparison - and Deus Ex has been one of my favourite games since I first played it. I have no idea how you can say "the individual systems are stand-alone" in a game where that's just factually no the case? What's been your experience in the game that had led to that conclusion?
Hawking Radiation
Member
Seen some youtube clips of guys doing these stealth/hacker enemy camp clearances. Shit looks epic. You just put this in text form.
Amazing part of the game that I still have fond memories of with my legendary netrunner build although I didn't need to fire a single round of my pistol or SMG.
I just hacked everything and everyone from a nice vantage point even the bosses LOL.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
This is the only realm where Schreier can be a “tough guy” in, sowing seeds of discord through the internet.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
This is the only realm where Schreier can be a “tough guy” in, sowing seeds of discord through the internet.
Komatsu
Member
Gotta love the fact that Schreirer seems to not grasp the difference between overall memory bandwidth and disc-reading speeds. The issue with the old gen platforms was asset streaming bandwidth, it had nothing to do with the optical drive, which isn't used all that much anyway as most of the game's assets are installed on the hard drive.
yurinka
Member
According to the head of CD Project, some of these 20 people are former employees so they don't have a real insight, and all of them except one were annonyous, so we don't know if they were real CD Projects employees. Or even just a Jason invent.
GHG
Member
It's funny because I got exactly the same accusations thrown at me in another recent thread about the game here:
Opinion - Game Dev - Hype - Cyberpunk 2077 Aims To Be A “Benchmark” For The Industry Like The Witcher 3 Was, Says Level Designer
https://gamingbolt.com/cyberpunk-2077-aims-to-be-benchmark-for-industry-like-the-witcher-3-was-says-level-designer In the latest issue of EDGE magazine (issue 348, September 2020), Level Designer Max Pears talked about the game, and what the developers want to achieve. He says there’s something...
If you care to understand my beef with the game from the standpoint of it being an "immersive sim" then you can read my comments there. In summary I'm of the opinion that there simply aren't enough emergent gameplay opportunities in the game and the few that do exist are trivial (and not multi-layered enough) or repetitive across every single area of the game.
It doesn't allow for imaginative gameplay outside of the game's obvious and pre-defined set of openings and objectives. On the list of games you can see that are installed in my steam library in that thread I'd say that the likes of divinity OS (both 1 and 2), teardown and shadow tactics (by combining the abilities of all your characters simultaneously) all offer up far more in the way of emergent gameplay opportunities and none of them are even immersive sims. If you haven't played any of those games yet then you should play them.
It's honestly a bit sad if we've got to the point where people are comfortable in calling cyberpunk an RPG or an immersive sim. It's neither. Even CDPR are now simply just calling this game an action adventure game which is pretty much all it is:
Hawking Radiation
Member
Yup.
We have dudes at each other's throats in here.
You guys are fucking crazy and I say that with much love LOL.
Kadayi
Banned
Its a simple question. what's the loss in losing the direct hacking from a gameplay perspective
In the Night City Wire stuff? Show me.
Ass of Can Whooping
Member
Again, what the hell are you talking about in regards to direct hacking. Monowire?
Talking about the hour long demo. Thought that was pretty obvious.
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