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[Monocle]

How dare I not settle for mediocrity! Go back to watching Transformers 3. You're part of the problem.

Look who dropped his monocle* in his tea this morning. You complained about missed opportunities to consummate dramatic tension, and have employed the word "gauche," in a critique of a cartoon show for children called Dragon Ball Z that is mainly about musclebound fighters banging their heads into things and chasing gaily colored orbs that let them summon a magic dragon and make a wish. Think about that for a second.

* What splendid irony that I referred to a monocle even as I am named after the selfsame ocular aid! *chortle!* I nearly gagged myself on a crumpet.

 

[Vincent Alexander]

I approve of anything Monocle ever writes.

Yeah after the Freeza saga power levels got a bit meaningless. I remeber the 'OVER 9000!!!!' (before the meme) and remebering how high it seemed

Cell Saga is still my favorite (not to say Frieza Saga isn't amazing). I think you just have to roll with how over-the-top the series gets as a whole. I let it all slide. Hell, Frieza had about a billion different forms---that seemed more ridiculous than most of what was in anything after.

 

[TheVampire]

I think it should have ended there, heh.

Freeza was the villain that ruled the universe up to that point. I believe freeza was also the first villain to have a power level of over 1 million.


By the end of the series it got ridiculous and most of the sayains and villains had power levels over 100,000,000. Watch the start of the series when raditz reads gokus and piccolos power levels. Both had power levels under 1,000

Yeah it did get a bit ridiculous how new villians appeard who just happened to be even stronger than the good guys at that point after the Freeza saga.

Freeza like set the benchmark being the most powerfull in the universe then at the end of the series when comparing him to the others he was a weakling.

 

[Bowflex]

Look who dropped his monocle* in his tea this morning. You complained about missed opportunities to consummate dramatic tension, and have employed the word "gauche," in a critique of a cartoon show for children called Dragon Ball Z that is mainly about musclebound fighters banging their heads into things and chasing gaily colored orbs that let them summon a magic dragon and make a wish. Think about that for a second.

* What splendid irony that I referred to a monocle even as I am named after the selfsame ocular aid! *chortle!* I nearly gagged myself on a crumpet.

It's called fantasy, hombre, and just because something has a younger demographic does not mean it shouldn't be well-written or have, god forbid, depth! It certainly doesn't mean it can't be appreciated by adults. Exhibit A:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6az9wGfeSgM

^ A well-presented, nicely paced tale of a little girl wanders upon a magical bathhouse and must aid spirits in order to save her parents who have been transformed into pigs by a sorceress. SANS 'GAUCHE'

 

[Wiseblade]

Did I travel back in time, or are we seriously having this thread in 2011? None of your criticisms are new, and you fail to provide any fresh insight whatsoever.

I'll say this. Naruto fixes everything that was ever wrong with Dragonball, but keeps everything I loved about it.

 

[voodoopanda]

The original Dragon Ball manga(I never watched the anime so I can't say) before any of the Z nonsense happened is the best thing to come out of the whole Dragon Ball thing. Especially just the first storyline that ends around when they first find all the dragon balls and summon the dragon. Everything past that feels kinda repetitive and re-hashy.

 

[Tony Rocky Horror]

Dragon Ball was much better. Clearly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxL3j26igoM

 

[Bowflex]

Did I travel back in time, or are we seriously having this thread in 2011? None of your criticisms are new, and you fail to provide any fresh insight whatsoever.

Consider me LTTP

 

[Stat Flow]

I'll say this. Naruto fixes everything that was ever wrong with Dragonball, but keeps everything I loved about it.

Nah but seriously, Naruto has turned to such shit, it's incredible.

Anyways, DBZ has flaws, but I don't care about them. NO ANIME EVER will surpass it based off of pure nostalgia. I mean, on that small TV with the cable box, me, my sister and my cousins, when we were young and lived in my grandmother's house at the time, DBZ on Toonami was the highlight of our day. No other show or cartoon is doing that.

I've watched it today and still love it.

 

[SomeDude]

Dragon Ball was much better. Clearly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxL3j26igoM

I've never watched the original dragon ball. Is there a lot of americana in it?

 

[Wiseblade]

Consider me LTTP

In which case, why not watch Kai? It would have almost completely solved your pacing issues. And judging Z without watching/reading Dragonball is so 1999. Of course many characters would seem flat when you jump into the point of the story where the author forgot about them.

 

[Bad_Boy]

say what you want. but dbz turned into shit after frieza.

 

[victreeb3l]

One of my absolute all-time favorite scenes:

http://youtu.be/4QzsNUlJQyw

that was so awesome

this just reminds me of how, despite being a good guy overall, horrible a father and husband goku was

 

[Bowflex]

In which case, why not watch Kai? It would have almost completely solved your pacing issues. And judging Z without watching/reading Dragonball is so 1999. Of course many characters would seem flat when you jump into the point of the story where the author forgot about them.

Because I'm a purist at heart, and I have a lot of free time. Also, I did watch Dragon Ball before I started re-watching Z. The characters have been flat from the very beginning. Never said they aren't endearing though.

 

[Monocle]

It's called fantasy, hombre, and just because something has a younger demographic does not mean it shouldn't be well-written or have, god forbid, depth! It certainly doesn't mean it can't be appreciated by adults. Exhibit A:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6az9wGfeSgM

I'm an adult who appreciates DBZ, and that involves enjoying it on its own terms, as a juvenile power fantasy that shows its seams. This type of material has limitations. If you aren't prepared to acknowledge them from the start, and indulge them, or better yet to enjoy the way they contribute to the show's campy tone, your expectations aren't realistic and you're watching the wrong show.

Join us for tomorrow night's episode, where we consider how Halo 3's respawn system distorts the exquisite character of the Shaivite conception of reincarnation.

 

[Wiseblade]

Because I'm a purist at heart, and I have a lot of free time. Also, I did watch Dragon Ball before I started re-watching Z. The characters have been flat from the very beginning. Never said they aren't endearing though.

Then why not read the manga? Can't get more "pure" than that.

 

[Zzoram]

Avatar The Last Airbender is superior in every way, because it actually uses some subtlety, there is character growth and conflict between allies, and the animation is so great and filler is almost non-existent.

 

[Bowflex]

I'm an adult who appreciates DBZ, and that involves enjoying it on its own terms, as a juvenile power fantasy that shows its seams. This type of material has limitations. If you aren't prepared to acknowledge them from the start, and indulge them, or better yet to enjoy the way they contribute to the show's campy tone, your expectations aren't realistic and you're watching the wrong show.

Join us for tomorrow night's episode, where we consider how Halo 3's respawn system distorts the exquisite character of the Shaivite conception of reincarnation.

Eseentially you are saying it's par for the course. Which it shouldn't be. What I'm saying is that it could have been better, these are the things that would have made it better, and I couldn't help but notice them

Then why not read the manga? Can't get more "pure" than that.

Good point :/

Avatar The Last Airbender is superior in every way, because it actually uses some subtlety, there is character growth and conflict between allies, and the animation is so great and filler is almost non-existent.

Funny you should mention that because this article

http://www.tinymixtapes.com/features/watching-iavatar-last-airbenderi

partially inspired me to make this thread

 

[Lothars]

Avatar The Last Airbender is superior in every way, because it actually uses some subtlety, there is character growth and conflict between allies, and the animation is so great and filler is almost non-existent.

I still prefer DBZ in every way over Airbender.

 

[Zaptruder]

A more interesting writeup would've been a detailed analysis into the cultural zeitgeist and social and psychological factors at play that allowed something like Dragon ball Z to be as big as it has been; and how it's gone on to influence media and the culture at large among those that watched and enjoyed it.

 

[Lothars]

Eseentially you are saying it's par for the course. Which it shouldn't be. What I'm saying is that it could have been better, these are the things that would have made it better, and I couldn't help but notice them

DBZ isn't perfect and I would say the worst part about the show is how much filler there was, To be fair though DBZ ended 15 years ago, so I think that makes a big difference especially compared to some other shows.

So yes i would say for that time period, it could have been par for the course.

 

[voodoopanda]

Dragon Ball Z always struck me as being like cartoon professional wrestling. Maybe because most of the people I knew growing up who were into one were into the other. DBZ at least has storylines of the same or higher quality as pro wrestling.

 

[Bowflex]

A more interesting writeup would've been a detailed analysis into the cultural zeitgeist and social and psychological factors at play that allowed something like Dragon ball Z to be as big as it has been; and how it's gone on to influence media and the culture at large among those that watched and enjoyed it.

I think Post-WWII Atomic bomb guilt/fear/fascination fueled a lot of these freakishly powerful fighting shows. Also, heroism, but that's generally understood as a psychological reasoning for most forms of fiction.

DBZ isn't perfect and I would say the worst part about the show is how much filler there was, To be fair though DBZ ended 15 years ago, so I think that makes a big difference especially compared to some other shows.

So yes i would say for that time period, it could have been par for the course.

Good point.

 

[zoukka]

So basically we are arguing which pile of steaming shit smells least bad...

Come on, these are action shows for kids.

 

[jaxword]

Dragonball Z Abridged is probably the best thing on youtube.

 

[TacticalFox88]

I think it should have ended there, heh.

Freeza was the villain that ruled the universe up to that point. I believe freeza was also the first villain to have a power level of over 1 million.


By the end of the series it got ridiculous and most of the sayains and villains had power levels over 100,000,000. Watch the start of the series when raditz reads gokus and piccolos power levels. Both had power levels under 1,000

A hundred Million? End of the series? Um...Super Saiyan Goku's power level was 150,000,000 at the end of the Freeza Saga. There's no telling how high it was when they fought Kidd Buu. In the billions? And adding in GT....oh god.

 

[Chinner]

all of these problems are pretty obvious, even as a child, and meanwhile the op is acting extremely pretentious as if he's some amazing critic enlightening us just because he's typed a bunch of words.

you know what? i think the OP can go fu-

NEXT TIME IN DRAGONBALL Z

 

[Monocle]

Eseentially you are saying it's par for the course. Which it shouldn't be. What I'm saying is that it could have been better, these are the things that would have made it better, and I couldn't help but notice them

Actually, you do make some good points about pacing and writing and such. Obviously the show could have been much improved simply by cutting the fat. I was just amused at your solemn and slightly overearnest approach to analyzing its shortcomings. I mean, my earlier summary of the show wasn't that far off the mark. Avatar and Spirited Away are in a completely different class, and merit the serious attention that DBZ arguably does not.

 

[Bowflex]

all of these problems are pretty obvious, even as a child, and meanwhile the op is acting extremely pretentious as if he's some amazing critic enlightening us just because he's typed a bunch of words.

you know what? i think the OP can go fu-

NEXT TIME IN DRAGONBALL Z

GAF-isms 101: Call things that make us feel insecure 'pretentious'

Actually, you do make some good points about pacing and writing and such. Obviously the show could have been much improved simply by cutting the fat. I was just amused at your solemn and slightly overearnest approach to analyzing its shortcomings. I mean, my earlier summary of the show wasn't that far off the mark. Avatar and Spirited Away are in a completely different class, and merit the serious attention that DBZ arguably does not.

Thanks, and I can see the absurdity/silliness behind this thread. I will certainly be watching Avatar next.

 

[jaxword]

that was so awesome

this just reminds me of how, despite being a good guy overall, horrible a father and husband goku was

In a way, Goku was a take on the stereotypical Fighting Hero character who Lives For The Fight. Those skills only work for the fight, not for the rebuilding afterwards with family and social needs.

"Beating things up does not make you a good family man" could easily be the theme of Dragonball Z.

Perhaps that's why Ryu always walks the world alone.

 

[Bowflex]

ONE MORE THING I SHOULD MENTION:

The Cooler movies are absolutely wonderful. Trunks and Bardok specials are pretty flawless too.

 

[Deleted member 74300]

Dragon Ball Z always struck me as being like cartoon professional wrestling. Maybe because most of the people I knew growing up who were into one were into the other. DBZ at least has storylines of the same or higher quality as pro wrestling.

I gotta agree.

In Wrestling something like this would happen on certain days.

"Will Goldberg keep his belt? Or will he be tazer gunned down by Scott Hall or hit with a steel chair causing the other guy to win instead because the referee (SOMEHOW) didn't see it happen? Or will he just end the match in a few seconds with just one or two moves. Find out next time on WCW Monday Nitro!"

Basically both shows make you want to know what happens next predictable or not.

 

[Yambert]

dont watch the shitty anime guys. read the books, they are a far, far superior storytelling format!

 

[Chinner]

because i'm super ill (and super bored) i'm going to watch this:
http://youtu.be/2cBOJTo-OqE

that shit was like the pinnacle of my childhood. might as well watch it now in its PURIST FORM.

 

[Bowflex]

dont watch the shitty anime guys. read the books, they are a far, far superior storytelling format!

I haven't read them, but I assume this is good advice.

As for the professional wrestling analogy, it's very dangerous to condemn something based solely on associations.

 

[I should be doing hw]

I thought this was going to be a critical analysis, not a one-sided negative review of the series.

 

[abstract alien]

I'll say this. Naruto fixes everything that was ever wrong with Dragonball, but keeps everything I loved about it.

This a million times, and it still manages to be its own product. DBZ is still iconic though, and I love it just because it is what it is. Every time I see Vegeta stand over Goku I get a majin smile across my face :^)

 

[Bowflex]

I thought this was going to be a critical analysis, not a one-sided negative review of the series.

Did you not bother reading the last two paragraphs where I praise certain aspects in semi-glowing tones?

 

[SLV]

because i'm super ill (and super bored) i'm going to watch this:
http://youtu.be/2cBOJTo-OqE

that shit was like the pinnacle of my childhood. might as well watch it now in its PURIST FORM.

This, so much this ! Only, with the superior german dub

 

[I should be doing hw]

Did you not bother reading the last two paragraphs where I praise certain aspects in semi-glowing tones?

Not really, I couldn't get past the part where you were deconstructing the character development and dialog of a shonen anime after claiming to have matured. And again, there was no analysis of anything interesting.

 

[jaxword]

Wrestling analogies

Watch this and understand how well the two mix:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zsZLN3Xjhc

 

[Cloudy]

I've heard good things, but it takes such dedication to get involved with such a massive series. Still, I may check it out.

You could just skip the filler lol

 

[Bowflex]

because i'm super ill (and super bored) i'm going to watch this:
http://youtu.be/2cBOJTo-OqE

that shit was like the pinnacle of my childhood. might as well watch it now in its PURIST FORM.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--R7Ymom9m0

 

[Throavium]

Dragonball Z Abridged is probably the best thing on youtube.

But what does this picture have to do with your comment?

 

[UnblessedSoul]

The only thing people liked about dbz is goku/vegeta going super saiyan and fighting

 

[Lebron]

Mr. Popo was racism

 

[cajunator]

Best anime ever is Code Geass. Confusing at times, but always gets to the point. And the ending. Wow.

As far as how you feel about DBZ, I must agree on all fronts.

Code Geass is god-tier entertainment.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

1. Japanese people tend to habitually repeat the last thing a person said in conversation. It's considered a way to keep the conversation going and a way to be polite.

2. The manga had waaaaaay less fat. The animation team was getting to the point where if they didn't slow down and write extra stuff in, they would catch up to where Toriyama was still writing the next week's manga chapter. There's very little "here's a week's worth of training episodes," the heroes arrive on Namek the chapter after they leave, and Namek's explosion is drawn out far less due to the time dilation in comics (although Frieza even admits past a certain point that he was exaggerating when Goku points out that it's been like 10 minutes).

 

[Zzoram]

The only thing people liked about dbz is goku/vegeta going super saiyan and fighting

And the hair, don't forget the hair.

 

[Kraftwerk]

"IT'S YOUR BALLS BULMA, THEY ARE GONE :O !!!! " (NSFW)