it's pretty sad. because iirc the dev sid they changed the old game engine (phyreengine) to fix the framerate issue. now with new game engine they got dynamic lighting destroying the framerate and have to drop it completely (with other cuts) and DS2 ended looking even worse than Demons Souls and Dark Soul 1. really incompetent devs it seems.
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Dark Souls 2 Lighting changes/Downgrade
- Thread starter Moral Panic
- Start date
it's pretty sad. because iirc the dev sid they changed the old game engine (phyreengine) to fix the framerate issue. now with new game engine they got dynamic lighting destroying the framerate and have to drop it completely (with other cuts) and DS2 ended looking even worse than Demons Souls and Dark Soul 1. really incompetent devs it seems.
Very good point.
If you look at the video, they are exactly the same area. There are many differences though.
Use of the torch is no longer necessary as the darkness has been severely toned down.
Here's the reveal demo showing why you need to use a torch:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_JFDPCtXFY&t=2m58s
Here's the same section in the final game showing that you don't need to use a torch:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vnErlYgKo8&t=2m55s
Fuck the console crowd in that case
Looks necessary to me (Though slightly less so), but the contrast on my monitor is shit. <_<
EatinOlives
Member
If you see the video you can get a much better "grasp" of the resolution.
You're thinking normal mapping.
EatinOlives
Member
Not even close.
Just for case in point of what I am talking about, the differences between the demo and the final console build are pretty massive.
Textures look higher resolution, Specular Highlights, increased Dynamic Shadows, pitch-black background, Bump Mapping (?), and looks like a DOF effect.
The top image looks like some areas in Dark Souls. It's not beyond the PS3 so it might be a design decision and will be no different in PC version.
mickcenary
Member
Absolutely agree with both you and Grief.exe, but From have made one hell of a bed here and they now have to lie in it. Like you alluded to, this should never have happened.
At the end of the day, one contingent is going to get fucked over - be it the PC or console crowd - and I guess history and projected sales don't bode well for the master race. I truly feel for you.
I guess the best thing to do is pretend that such an iteration of the game never existed in any reality.
A Sentient Keyboard
Member
Does anybody know at what time the review embargo will be up? I'm interested to hear what reviewers have to say about the graphics (and specifically the atmosphere of the environments now that the lighting is duller/flatter).
You would be very surprised.
Conservative estimates would place Dark Souls total sales at >800,000 on PC, that is with bad word of mouth surrounding the port and GFWL not being available in many regions.
Recent registry updates would lead us to believe that Bandai is committed to removing GFWL from Dark Souls in favor of Steamworks.
Haha, you nailed it.
I doubt they even notice, honestly.
I mean how many reviewers called out infinite for being absolutely nothing design wise nor graphics wise vs the last e3 build?
Spiritreaver
Member
This is the last time I will ever listen to my friends about buying a console version of a multiplatform release. If they can't get a gaming rig, then I'm not wasting my cash.
That's assuming the PC version isn't gimped. God, I should've waited on preordering digitally, lol.
If the PC version is just as much of a fuckup.... yikes.
That's assuming the PC version isn't gimped. God, I should've waited on preordering digitally, lol.
If the PC version is just as much of a fuckup.... yikes.
Curious_George
Neo Member
But quality lighting and some of those other elements in the first photo are graphical bells and whistles. Also, if they had the preview build running on a PS3 somehow then they absolutely can manage all of these effects on a semi-modern PC. To intentionally cripple the PC version just to maintain some sort of console/pc parity would be ridiculous. I honestly think I will consider not purchasing DS2 if the PC version gets downgraded just to compensate for the state of the console version.
Why should people with 10x more powerful hardware be forced to suffer because you guys use 8-9 year old tech?
This is like saying games like Thief 4, Tomb Raider, Titanfall, etc should have been forced to maintain parity between the ps360 versions and the Ps4/bone versions just so the former wouldn't have their feelings hurt.
mickcenary
Member
Look, I'd agree with you in any other instance, but the overall look is just so goddamn disparate; like, inter-generationally so. And yes, I'm well aware that what I just said is actually very true, but it just wouldn't make much sense to me for From to do this, i.e. omit the entire lighting engine and drastically change the look/design of the game.
It would just be that shit an effort that I don't want it to be true. I definitely see the other side of the coin, though.
Not when you can release a superior version slightly later. Bring on the double dippers!
cheezcake
Member
I did say "or changed area", you're using a completely modified area under different lighting conditions to make a technical comparison. I'm just pointing out that it's a poor comparison, which it is.
Definitely a disappointing change, but clearly not a technical issue. It affects how people like the look of the game, but that's subjective and doesn't really have a place in a predominantly technical discussion.
It does? This should have been a problem for the last 6-7 years then.
Definitive version with DLC included.
But the PC version is already delayed by a month, and console sales are very front loaded. A superior PC version will move more units on PC, which already has way longer legs by default.
cheezcake
Member
No it doesn't.
Metalingus5150
Member
Poimandres
Member
I fear you are right, but I sure as hell hope you're not! There's no point being pissed that the PC version looks/perfroms better. The PS3 and 360 are truly old consoles now. If anything large differences should be expected.
I will be royally pissed if they removed/greatly reduced the lighting from the PC version because of performance issues on console. We will have to wait and see how the PC version fares at the end of the day. Even if it has been removed it seems like something that happened relatively late into development so I wonder if some bright soul could mod it back in?
This video is a better comparison point because it's from a fairly recent PS3 build.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GdJP_Jhs2s
22 seconds in.
The final build looks nothing like that even when the player is carrying a lit torch. The difference is night and day.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GdJP_Jhs2s
22 seconds in.
The final build looks nothing like that even when the player is carrying a lit torch. The difference is night and day.
Is the character holding a torch, because it looks like the character isn't.
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Edit
Has it been noted that the original Dark Souls on the consoles ran at low resolutions, I wonder at what resolution Dark Souls II is currently running on the consoles?
Have FROM traded resolution for other visual effects?
Chance Hale
Member
I'm sure I'll enjoy the game but it'll be a real bummer seeing some of these areas as I know how they were intended to be. Unless all of these were vertical slices that were faked similarly to Aliens: CM. The areas without lighting and blown out colors just look real bad, hopefully the PC version will be untouched but we shall see. Just such a difference that it would make the versions play differently due to vastly different visibility. The touch idea was brilliant and looked great. Sigh.
That area is nearly pitch black without a torch in the original footage. The small bit of light from your character aside. Bottom just looks awful.
It's closer to retail than the first reveal demo, though. In this, the wall texture around the staircase looks the same as the retail build - repetitive and a lot less detailed. I doubt anybody noticed it back then though.
mickcenary
Member
Haha. This is basically what it boils down to. I'm a console gamer. I expect PC versions of games to be far superior and I'm okay with that, but to say that this instance isn't quite different would be remiss.
Don't get me wrong, if the shoe were on the other foot, I'd be arguing the exact opposite thing and I'd be even angrier. It's just a shitty situation.
cpp_is_king
Member
To me this looks like a conscious design decision. I won't go there about whether or not it was a good design decision, but in any case, I wouldn't expect different on the PC version. It looks to me like if you want the dynamic lighting from the demos / trailers / etc, you need a torch. It's weird that you can still see without a torch though.
Nope. They've demoed the game on ps3. I've played it on a regular ps3 (not a devkit) looking just like the first video. I played it myself and the console was just sitting on a table (system menu fully accessible). No smoke and mirrors bullshit.
I don't think they've ever shown the PC version, to be honest. Seemed to be entirely ps3.
Fair point, I guess I will be carrying a torch at all times as I love that dynamic lighting and I don't have to worry about my frame rate tanking.
So what you are saying is, Bandai severely drugged you before you sat down for your play test.
Were you aware of your drink at all times? Did a strange Japanese man ever stick you with a hypodermic needle? These are things you need to be on the look out for at any press event.
Chance Hale
Member
Makes this all the more heartbreaking, hope From or Namco will say something but it seems unlikely with the game about to launch.
Curious_George
Neo Member
If that was indeed on PS3 hardware then that must have been like a separate build from the main game. That's the only explanation I can come up with for all the differences.
I think From really needs to show the PC version in action at this point. I want to know which of the apparently numerous builds the PC is getting.
It doesn't matter because of the way they drastically changed the lighting system (dynamic real time lighting vs prebaked ambient lighting). Check out the video comparison posted earlier.
Cloudius12
Member
How recent was this, may I ask?
Wow, was there a similar kerfuffle over Infinite prior to launch?
I wasn't following that game as closely as I am DS2. Playing through it right now and some areas are quite stunning, especially with all the wind/weather effects going on. Mild Infinite area spoilers:
like when you're on that huge bridge approaching Comstock House, looking over New York during the air raid, or generally looking around during the Vox war
I'd be curious to see how different it is now to the last build that was publicly shown, as playing it on PS3 I think it looks outstanding for a "last-gen" game.
Nah. It may not be as cool as when it was revealed but from even the low quality streams I've seen it still looks good graphics wise. Way better than demons or dark souls. There is a lot to the souls games than just some lighting. You even said it yourself. Everything combed. Maybe in this game they have promised more graphically but that's no reason to really be disappointed that offers so much more than graphics.
It doesn't seem like they got rid of the dynamic lighting system though, they just increased the radius of light the character emits. I'm hoping it's just a value that can be tweaked with some modding.
Yeah it does, I mean the assets atleast but the lighting downgrade is gigantic.
TimeEffect
Member
Just for case in point of what I am talking about, the differences between the demo and the final console build are pretty massive.
Textures look higher resolution, Specular Highlights, increased Dynamic Shadows, pitch-black background, Normal Mapping, and looks like a DOF effect.
What the actual fucking fuck?
This is incredibly maddening, It takes away from the gameplay and just looks plain bad. Didnt know the difference was this massive :/
Wasnt this whole torch mechanic a big deal?
EatinOlives
Member
If it was a conscious design decision then there's no way we're seeing the lighting back on the PC version, even if it can handle it.
If it wasn't a conscious decision, and was mostly due to the lighting's performance on consoles, we might see it return on PC. That's depending on how comfortable From is having such a large difference (that honestly affects gameplay) between the PC version and the console ones.
tbqh I don't see it returning. The chance that it was purely technical and that From wouldn't mind the difference on PC is very small.
If it wasn't a conscious decision, and was mostly due to the lighting's performance on consoles, we might see it return on PC. That's depending on how comfortable From is having such a large difference (that honestly affects gameplay) between the PC version and the console ones.
tbqh I don't see it returning. The chance that it was purely technical and that From wouldn't mind the difference on PC is very small.