Support NeoGAF

[antiloop]

It has been out for almost 2 weeks. Don't expect miracles.


Just buy a Wii and sell the PS3 on eBay.

 

[Mmmkay]

Okay, so I went and took some pictures of my PS2 exhibiting the same pixellation on my Samsung HDTV. Bear in mind that these are through Component and so will naturally look fuzzier than the PS3 sending through HDMI.

The first is FFXII taken on my Toshiba 1080p panel:

The second is FFXII taken on my Samsung 768p panel:

Interestingly, Valkyrie Profile 2 looked fine on both sets in all progressive and interlaced modes. Also, the menus and PS2 logo screen look fine on my dodgy Samsung. It might be a specific problem with some PS2 titles and how they send an interlaced signal. My theory is that whatever method my Samsung panel is using to deinterlace 480i is the same as what the PS3 is using. This seems to have horizontal stretching issue for certain titles. I checked with Metal Gear Solid 2, and as with dark10x's PS3 experiences, my Samsung also does the stretching issue with that title on my PS2.

 

[Kreuzader]

Ugh - I hope this and the other HD rendering issues are resolved before I get one

 

[Raistlin]

I'll test some titles tonight.

I will test both standard and 'game' modes for de-interlacing on my HDTV. I have a sneaking suspicion that the interlaced output of the PS2/1 may be confusing the de-interlacers in many TV’s.

I would expect game mode to not exhibit such artifacts.

 

[Mojovonio]

Old Gens transition into new Gen is always an ugly one.

 

[Flo_Evans]

haha the PS2 lives on! man this sucks I have ALOT of PS2 games that I haven't finnished.

 

[Shawn]

I'm using Sony's top-of-the-line, most expensive 32-inch LCD (HDMI), and I agree -- PS2 games look atrocious through the PS3 emulation.

 

[Vangellis]

Pics from FFXII:

PS2 over component:

PS3 over HDMI:

Taken from
http://boardsus.playstation.com/playstation/board/message?board.id=ps3&message.id=773566#M773566

Exactly what I'm seeing.

Unfortunately, this looks like some kind of aliasing. Perhaps it's corrupting 2D information during the de-interlacing process that goes from 480i to 480p. Whatever this is, it's ass. Would you believe I've logged 24 hours of FF12 playtime looking at shit like that?

Wow, Im really shocked thats way worse than what I thought based on the comments on the board. I thought people were just being really picky but that is truly a mess

 

[kaching]

The issue is most noticeable with text, as the screenshots attest. The rest of ingame assets don't seem so perceptibly affected, if perceptible at all, based on the time I've spend with a few PS2 games, including FFXII.

 

[fatigues_gasolini]

Im playing FFXII through HDMI>DVI on my PS3, and the game looks fine. I have a 27-inch LCD HDTV. I did notice that the colors seemed a little toned down, but probably could be adjusted with my tv.

 

[PistolGrip]

Please sell me your PS3 and buy yourself a Wii. You win as you get to play cube games, I win, and GAF wins because you stop whinning about not being able to get your TV to display 480i/P correctly.

 

[JB1981]

The issue is most noticeable with text, as the screenshots attest. The rest of ingame assets don't seem so perceptibly affected, if perceptible at all, based on the time I've spend with a few PS2 games, including FFXII.

MGS 3: Subsistence and FFXII look like shimmery, jaggified, pixelated ass in the cutscenes on the PS3.

 

[manxor]

stop whinning about not being able to get your TV to display 480i/P correctly.

Errr... that is not the problem.
Just tried this out with the PS3 at work on our Bravia. AFAIK, there's no solution to this (PS3) problem... yet.

 

[kaching]

MGS 3: Subsistence and FFXII look like shimmery, jaggified, pixelated ass in the cutscenes on the PS3.

Haven't tried MGS3:S but the cutscenes I've seen thus far in FFXII don't fit that description.

 

[JB1981]

Haven't tried MGS3:S but the cutscenes I've seen thus far in FFXII don't fit that description.

I'm talking about the opening CG movie, specifically.

 

[PistolGrip]

Errr... that is not the problem.
Just tried this out with the PS3 at work on our Bravia. AFAIK, there's no solution to this (PS3) problem... yet.

Either way we both win

 

[Triz]

I'm talking about the opening CG movie, specifically.

The opening movie looked like that for me as well JB.

 

[kaching]

I'm talking about the opening CG movie, specifically.

What about the rest? I can pick out scaling/de-interlacing issues if I look closely but it doesn't come across as so outright asstastic as you describe.

 

[fartblast]

MGS 3: Subsistence and FFXII look like shimmery, jaggified, pixelated ass in the cutscenes on the PS3.

who would want to play MGS3 let alone watch the cutscenes

 

[JB1981]

who would want to play MGS3 let alone watch the cutscenes

People with taste in gaming.

 

[Confusion Illusion]

who would want to play MGS3 let alone watch the cutscenes

Why would you ask such a question?

 

[speculawyer]

Damn . . . . I put off buying Bully because I thought I'd wait for an xbox 360 version (which doesn't look like it is coming any time soon if at all) or until I got my PS3 set up so I could play it on the PS3 and get an upscaled image.

But it turns out that not only is there no upscaled image, I'll get a pixelated compressed image! Ouch.

I gave my old xbox away when I got an xbox 360 assuming that I would not care much about backwards compatibility and that it would probably be able to play most of the old xbox games I'd be interested in. But I sure regretted that and I have copies of 'The Warriors' and '007:Everything or Nothing' that have sat unplayed.

I guess I better not give away my PS2. :-/

 

[dark10x]

who would want to play MGS3 let alone watch the cutscenes

You're right, why would I want to play a masterpiece of a game?

I think I'll go play Bomberman Act Zero, Gundam PS3 or Red Steel instead.

 

[evilchicken]

Many ps2 games look bad with HDMI and higher resolutions...think of lower resolution as a poor mans anti-aliasing.

 

[fart]

It somehow reminds me of that old Denis Leary joke: "Ted Kennedy would be a great date... he would come home, drunk, no pants on and he would say "whoa, what did I forget ?!? Oh, the f*c&ing girl, that's what!""...

You cannot say "what a good job" just because many games work if the output quality sucks. Would I rather have less games supported and a better output quality ? No, I want good backward-compatibility AND good output quality.

i guess that was a bit of a misphrasing on my part. i meant that the problem seemed to be an output layer outside of the emulator. they have perfect emulation but an issue with some scaler or output filter. what it sounds like to me is that they made all the right engineering decisions, but weren't able to do enough testing with a wide range of output hardware/interfaces (and this doesn't seem like that easy of a problem, much like the reported HDMI sync problems)

 

[JB1981]

I am noticing that games that offer progressive scan support actually look better than they did on the PS2. God of War and Shadow of the Colossus in 480p look smoother and sharper than they ever did on my PS2.

Just tried Jak 2 and it kind of scared me. It loses signal at the beginning but it's fine after the opening credits.

 

[Bebpo]

I am noticing that games that offer progressive scan support actually look better than they did on the PS2. God of War and Shadow of the Colossus in 480p look smoother and sharper than they ever did on my PS2.

Yeah.

The problem is coming from the PS3 FORCING 480P on 480I games and the process ****s up the image. Games that are already 480P should not be changed at all and just have the additional benefit of HDMI.

All Sony needs to put in their next firmware patch to fix this is turn off the 480P switch for PS2/PS1 games and just have PS1/PS2 games output in 480i unless you turn on 480p within the specific game (if it's built in). This should in theory fix everything and give an identical image to the PS2.

 

[JB1981]

Yeah.

The problem is coming from the PS3 FORCING 480P on 480I games and the process ****s up the image. Games that are already 480P should not be changed at all and just have the additional benefit of HDMI.

All Sony needs to put in their next firmware patch to fix this is turn off the 480P switch for PS2/PS1 games and just have PS1/PS2 games output in 480i unless you turn on 480p within the specific game (if it's built in). This should in theory fix everything and give an identical image to the PS2.

I don't think the PS3 even offers 480i over HDMI or component, though.

 

[p_xavier]

I don't think the PS3 even offers 480i over HDMI or component, though.

It works for component, but the image is the same subpar quality as 480p.

 

[Vaandaviii]

At least Nintendo did mange to get the GC emulation right (besides the controller thing).

Wii doesn't emulate GC, just run natively its games

 

[Bebpo]

It works for component, but the image is the same subpar quality as 480p.

No, it doesn't offer 480i. In that case with component it's first FORCING the games to 480P and then dropping them to 480i (after the image has been messed up already in the 480p conversion) to sets that can't show 480p.

This is why they need a patch that tells it to skip the 480p conversion and straight output at 480i no matter what the settings of the system are at.

 

[Flo_Evans]

Please sell me your PS3 and buy yourself a Wii. You win as you get to play cube games, I win, and GAF wins because you stop whinning about not being able to get your TV to display 480i/P correctly.

how about you STFU as you don't have a PS3 and don't know what the hell you are talking about?

I am just going to play PS2 games on my PS2 for now until this gets fixed. rumble+clean 480i output FTW.

 

[hyp]

how about you STFU as you don't have a PS3 and don't know what the hell you are talking about?

I am just going to play PS2 games on my PS2 for now until this gets fixed. rumble+clean 480i output FTW.

:lol he isn't on your ignore list yet?

 

[Y2Kev]

You're right, why would I want to play a masterpiece of a game?

I think I'll go play Bomberman Act Zero, Gundam PS3 or Red Steel instead.

red steel >>>>> mgs3

*makes bizarro hand gestures and noise*

 

[Raistlin]

Many ps2 games look bad with HDMI and higher resolutions...think of lower resolution as a poor mans anti-aliasing.

This is not an issue of the game simply being too crisp ...

... there are actual errors in the video output.

 

[icecream]

You're right, why would I want to play a masterpiece of a game?

I think I'll go play Bomberman Act Zero, Gundam PS3 or Red Steel instead.

"Which one of these is not like the other? Which one just doesn't belong?" >_>

 

[Raistlin]

Once Sony fixes this, and adds 720p BluRay output ...

I think they need to offer an advanced video output mode in the XMB, where you confgure the display resolution is for each type of media. The current guessing game the PS3 does just doesn't work when considering all the scenarios of TV input resolutions, quality of de-interlacers, etc.


PS1 - 480i / 480p / passthrough

PS2 - 480i / 480p / passthrough

PS3 - 480i / 480p / 720p / passthrough
............[sub menu for manual control based on game native res]
............720p games - 480i / 480p / 720p
............1080p games - 480i / 480p / 720p / 1080i / 1080p

DVD - 480i / 480p (if they add upscaling, then add 720p / 1080i / 1080p / and eventually 1080p24 if it detects a movie)

BD - 480i / 480p / 720p / 1080i / 1080p / passthrough (and eventually 1080p24 if it detects a movie)


Please Sony ... DO IT!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Lyte Edge]

I've been doing a LOT of messing around with the PS2 and PS1 backwards compatibilty. I also recently got an HDTV and switched to HDMI for the PS3. I've noticed that on my older TV and on the HDTV that playing PS2 games through component looks better than HDMI. HDMI seems to make BC games look sharper, but the trade-off is that you often get very jaggie/pixelated-looking image quality and/or incredibly blurry visuals.

Some games look better than others. All of the 2D games I've tried look GREAT, but a number of 3D titles really don't take well to it. Results vary.

BTW I tried Tobal 2 and it worked...I thought DCharlie posted that it wouldn't load up; maybe the firmware update fixed some BC issues? Also in addition to Neo-Geo Battle Coliseum, KOF XI and Guilty Gear XX SLASH also both have shortened loading times.

I took pics of some games recently:

Street Fighter III: Third Strike

Soul Calibur III

Rumble Roses

KOF Maximum Impact 2

Guilty Gear XX SLASH

 

[marwan]

Do PS1 games suffer from the same PS2 on PS3 problem?

and what if the PS3 is set to 480i/480p and then you insert a PS2 game, would that fix the problem?

 

[Lyte Edge]

Also the Capcom 3D games I've tried have looked the worse. Godhand and Sengoku Basara 2 just look AWFUL on PS3. Even the video on SB2 looked grainy and bad.

Do PS1 games suffer from the same PS2 on PS3 problem?

and what if the PS3 is set to 480i/480p and then you insert a PS2 game, would that fix the problem?

Yes, the PS1 games I've tried looked noticeably worse. They don't take to 480p well without any kind of smoothing like what the PS2 does when playing them.

 

[Kintaro]

Once Sony fixes this, and adds 720p BluRay output ...

I think they need to offer an advanced video output mode in the XMB, where you confgure the display resolution is for each type of media. The current guessing game the PS3 does just doesn't work when considering all the scenarios of TV input resolutions, quality of de-interlacers, etc.


PS1 - 480i / 480p / passthrough

PS2 - 480i / 480p / passthrough

PS3 - 480i / 480p / 720p / passthrough
............[sub menu for manual control based on game native res]
............720p games - 480i / 480p / 720p
............1080p games - 480i / 480p / 720p / 1080i / 1080p

DVD - 480i / 480p (if they add upscaling, then add 720p / 1080i / 1080p / and eventually 1080p24 if it detects a movie)

BD - 480i / 480p / 720p / 1080i / 1080p / passthrough (and eventually 1080p24 if it detects a movie)


Please Sony ... DO IT!!!!!!!!!!!!

I agree with this. I was surprised to find no options for PS1 or PS2 outputs in the first place. =(

 

[Dizzy]

So if the next firmware doesn't fix this, I'll say hello wii and bye bye sony.

While I agree that this BC is very disappointing, that sounds a bit extreme. It makes it sound as if you only got the PS3 for PS2 games.

 

[chespace]

Sorry I haven't read this whole thread, but how does Okami look on PS3?

It's the next PS2 game I play after I'm through FFXII.

(BTW, I get my PS3 in the next week or two -- depending on when my buddy at SCEA gets his).

 

[Y2Kev]

Sorry I haven't read this whole thread, but how does Okami look on PS3?

It's the next PS2 game I play after I'm through FFXII.

(BTW, I get my PS3 in the next week or two -- depending on when my buddy at SCEA gets his).

I've read various reports (like Kohler, among others) that the text is affected significantly, but I've read conflicting reports that say it is fine otherwise.

 

[VNZ]

Hopefully this will be resolved when they move to a software solution for BC, with the increased control over rendering that gives you.

 

[chespace]

I've read various reports (like Kohler, among others) that the text is affected significantly, but I've read conflicting reports that say it is fine otherwise.

Ah. I ask because I heard that Okami is low-res and looks significantly worse than what you'd see on a PS2. Looks like I'm definitely going to keep the PS2 around for quite a while longer.

Getting crowded 'round these parts.

 

[DCharlie]

BTW I tried Tobal 2 and it worked...I thought DCharlie posted that it wouldn't load up; maybe the firmware update fixed some BC issues? Also in addition to Neo-Geo Battle Coliseum, KOF XI and Guilty Gear XX SLASH also both have shortened loading times.

yeah , it just didn't load for me at all... that and Internal section.

They both have Hires mode in common (?) so thought it was that.

Let me try IS right now again... and Tobal 2 if i can find it!

 

[DCharlie]

okay - IS still dies at the same point and i don't have Tobal 2 right at hand.

I did take some photos of Monster Hunter going through the mangler :/

"Enjoy" :

Opening FMV gets automatically treated to Youtube filter :/

Ugh :

:/

 

[Diablos]

Pics from FFXII:

PS2 over component:

PS3 over HDMI:

Taken from
http://boardsus.playstation.com/playstation/board/message?board.id=ps3&message.id=773566#M773566

Exactly what I'm seeing.

Unfortunately, this looks like some kind of aliasing. Perhaps it's corrupting 2D information during the de-interlacing process that goes from 480i to 480p. Whatever this is, it's ass. Would you believe I've logged 24 hours of FF12 playtime looking at shit like that?

Holy shit man, that looks terrible.

Hopefully they will fix this in a future update.

 

[MickeyKnox]

okay - IS still dies at the same point and i don't have Tobal 2 right at hand.

I did take some photos of Monster Hunter going through the mangler :/

"Enjoy" :

Opening FMV gets automatically treated to Youtube filter :/

Ugh :

:/

Yay another MH player.