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[Roni]

I keep just playing it without doing the main story missions.

Same, I'm 40 hours in I think and still in Chapter 3!

 

[Burrito Bandito]

I think ill try this game via Redbox. Ive never been overly impressed with big Sony exclusives. For instance, TLOU is the most overrated game of all time in my opinion.

I also hold the opinion that 99/100 times when someone says their “art” is too deep for you to understand if you didnt like it, typically its just a complete mess jumbled together and “art” is excuse for the mess. If make a big enough of a mess and claim to be a grand orchestrator then people will find your deep meaning for you so that they can be in the club of true intellects.

When i read this thread i see many people desperately trying to justify endless walking as an “experience” or even “fun”. Ill eat my words if it is actually that but i have a hunch its just people wanting to feel above other people, thats what being pretentious is.

 

[Exede]

Just bought it today, my wife watched it on/off for like an hour and was just uber confused of basicly everything. Told her to imagine something like a X-Files, Twighlight Zone and Dr. Who crossover. Not sure about what´s happening in this game so far either.

 

[Xaero Gravity]

10 hours in is basically still the tutorial section, and half of that is like cutscenes and dialogue.

Compared to the average AAA game, you're either half way done if it's like an Uncharted or like 15 missions into a UBI open world.

No real point here but it's not surprising to see people tapping out early.

If a game has a tutorial that takes 10 hours then that's a whole other problem.

The first boss battle was cool looking at least, but the interesting lore and story just don't grip me enough to offset what I find to be dull and repetitive gameplay. Thankfully I went with a physical copy that only cost $50 Canadian, had I paid the full $90 I would have already traded it in to recoup at least some of the cost, but as it is I'll keep it and maybe go back to it one day.

 

[TGO]

There is no art in Death Stranding... it is pure gameplay.
Maybe the most gameplay focused game Kojima ever did.

In Chapter 2
When you near Port Knot City and Asylums For The Feeling play as the Camara pans out.
That's Art

See, Art

 

[imsosleepy]

In Chapter 2
When you near Port Knot City and Asylums For The Feeling play as the Camara pans out.
That's Art

YES YES YES I HAD THOSE FEELS 2
insaneee! Glad I was not the only one for who that was a really nice memory!! The long walk to a new area, the hard climb, the annoying bt's and then that moment.. god dam kojima, thank u

 

[LuvOfThaGame]

In Chapter 2
When you near Port Knot City and Asylums For The Feeling play as the Camara pans out.
That's Art

See, Art

He's right, though.

Art is a diverse range of human activities in creating visual, auditory or performing artifacts (artworks), expressing the author's imaginative, conceptualideas, or technical skill, intended to be appreciated for their beauty or emotional power.

If it truly is made with the entire focus on beauty and emotional power and gameplay is more of a means to explore the art than being actually functional beyond traveling, then it could be considered art. But then your back to a walking simulator.

Pick one.

Is Death Stranding a game or an art piece?

 

[mckmas8808]

He's right, though.

Art is a diverse range of human activities in creating visual, auditory or performing artifacts (artworks), expressing the author's imaginative, conceptualideas, or technical skill, intended to be appreciated for their beauty or emotional power.

If it truly is made with the entire focus on beauty and emotional power and gameplay is more of a means to explore the art than being actually functional beyond traveling, then it could be considered art. But then your back to a walking simulator.

Pick one.

Is Death Stranding a game or an art piece?

It can be both. There doesn't need to be a choice.

 

[Endless Fluff]

I hear this "dull and repetitive" a lot and I agree to SOME extent, especially chapter 2, but there's lots of exaggeration about this.

In chapter 3 you get the exoskeleton, the Bola gun and your Bike, this makes traversal a lot easier (especially the exoskeleton, you rarely have to keep balance with that) on top of that you get missions to raid MULE camps all the time. To be honest, Death Stranding feels like any other Open World game to me. It's like playing Witcher 3 or RDR2... you go from one spot to another, do your shit and go back.

The most joy I get is from doing really hard delivery routes, where I have to plan ahead... but then you do find ladders and ropes from other players deep in the mountains trivializing the journey... which again turns this into a regular open world game, with normal gameplay.
Heck, I kind of played this like Metal Gear for a bit, to maximize efficiency. I was constantly invading MULE camps, stole their transporters and resources and helped with building and upgrading structures... while I also picked up dropped cargo and delivered that in between. That transporter makes everything so much easier and faster. lol

That gameplay loop felt most rewarding so far, since you see them "likes" trickle in all the time giving you a sense achievement... I kinda get what ShillUp meant in his review, that helping others can be an addicting gameplay loop.

But I agree that it takes a bit too long to get to the point where you have at least unlocked the bikes in chapter 3.... the slow beginning will turn some people off, especially if they're not advancing to chapter 3 and decide to stay in chapter 2 to finish missions.

 

[ethomaz]

Another think that reviewers probably missed.

When you are playing connected the community did build specific battery towers that allow you to travel at fast speeds without your vehicle ever losing power.

I'm doing 45m or 30m timed missions in 2m because that... reviewers probably had to do on foot lol

PS. All the bridges created by community allow you to use vehicle all the time... I created two already to fast travel.

 

[Neff]

I'm doing 45m or 30m timed missions in 2m because that... reviewers probably had to do on foot lol

Reviewers had access to all that stuff, including online community participation. The game will fill your world with a certain amount of other players' creations based on your likes and region's chiral bandwidth, regardless of the amount of people playing, and there were certainly enough people playing pre-release to get a sense of what the game is like now.

I think a lot of the game's harsher critics simply weren't feeling adventurous enough to invest in Death Stranding's many tools and gameplay systems, or pay attention to their surroundings, or even look at the map. Anyone who ever spent 45 minutes on a mission in this game, even without other players to aid you, is probably doing something wrong. The longest I spent on a mission was probably about 20 mins, most are about 5 mins or less.

 

[Saruhashi]

Reviewers had access to all that stuff, including online community participation. The game will fill your world with a certain amount of other players' creations based on your likes and region's chiral bandwidth, regardless of the amount of people playing, and there were certainly enough people playing pre-release to get a sense of what the game is like now.

I think a lot of the game's harsher critics simply weren't feeling adventurous enough to invest in Death Stranding's many tools and gameplay systems, or pay attention to their surroundings, or even look at the map. Anyone who ever spent 45 minutes on a mission in this game, even without other players to aid you, is probably doing something wrong. The longest I spent on a mission was probably about 20 mins, most are about 5 mins or less.

Yeah, that has been my experience too.

The main time consuming part of each region is basically "opening up" the area on your own with your own ladders and ropes before bringing that region into the network and then from there you are able to either take advantage of others players work or build things yourself to make everything go a bit more smoothly and more quickly.

I think there is really a valid concern about how reviewers approach longer games.
If a developer is creating a game that is designed to be a 50 to 60 hour experience then surely the reviewer needs to take that into account?
It makes sense that the devs would want to keep various mechanics etc held back and reveal them as the player goes through the many hours of game.

Similarly, for a large game, the reviewer should consider all of the games systems and mechanics and explore them properly.

Too often, but especially in this case, there is a real sense that the reviewer is looking at the game as work rather than as a form of entertainment.
The developer is making something 60 hours long with the idea that they are giving the player plenty of things to do and hoping that the player will want to do those things. The reviewer is looking at that from a perspective of something that they have to do.

A player might look at a game with 60 levels/missions/quests and think "awesome lots of stuff to do" but if the reviewer is thinking "FFS 60 levels that a lot to get through" then this attitude is going to come through in the review.

 

[mckmas8808]

Yeah, that has been my experience too.

The main time consuming part of each region is basically "opening up" the area on your own with your own ladders and ropes before bringing that region into the network and then from there you are able to either take advantage of others players work or build things yourself to make everything go a bit more smoothly and more quickly.

I think there is really a valid concern about how reviewers approach longer games.
If a developer is creating a game that is designed to be a 50 to 60 hour experience then surely the reviewer needs to take that into account?
It makes sense that the devs would want to keep various mechanics etc held back and reveal them as the player goes through the many hours of game.

Similarly, for a large game, the reviewer should consider all of the games systems and mechanics and explore them properly.

Too often, but especially in this case, there is a real sense that the reviewer is looking at the game as work rather than as a form of entertainment.
The developer is making something 60 hours long with the idea that they are giving the player plenty of things to do and hoping that the player will want to do those things. The reviewer is looking at that from a perspective of something that they have to do.

A player might look at a game with 60 levels/missions/quests and think "awesome lots of stuff to do" but if the reviewer is thinking "FFS 60 levels that a lot to get through" then this attitude is going to come through in the review.

The bolded is so true and I never thought of it that way. A dev shouldn't blow their load on all the mechanics of a 50-hour game within the first 8 hours. If they did, there wouldn't be much to look forward to.

 

[ethomaz]

Reviewers had access to all that stuff, including online community participation. The game will fill your world with a certain amount of other players' creations based on your likes and region's chiral bandwidth, regardless of the amount of people playing, and there were certainly enough people playing pre-release to get a sense of what the game is like now.

I think a lot of the game's harsher critics simply weren't feeling adventurous enough to invest in Death Stranding's many tools and gameplay systems, or pay attention to their surroundings, or even look at the map. Anyone who ever spent 45 minutes on a mission in this game, even without other players to aid you, is probably doing something wrong. The longest I spent on a mission was probably about 20 mins, most are about 5 mins or less.

45m was the countdown for the mission... I got S rank with 2m and something... you can say 3m.

Reviewers had the online but not the community side.
Are you comparing 100-200 reviewers online with a community with millions?

Reading some reviewers (even including Edge previews) makes no sense that they says it is boring to reach the destinations if you have the online opened.
It is unbelievable to be fair.

The reviewers picture a complete different game than what you play... I was lucky to choose to buy the game day one because I was triggered by reviewers articles.
I missed games like Days Gone due reviewers... now I almost missed that gem called Death Stranding due reviewers.
If reviewers can't write an article about what the game really is or if they can't play it correctly then they are missing the point of a review.

So most of what they wrote looks like they didn't evolved their building or did not have a community to help with building while playing the game... making it a boring experience doing everything without help to speed up.

That is the only explanation I can see for what it is wrote in some reviews.

 

[imsosleepy]

So I just got an exo skeleton and walking has become much easier.
And now.. I understand even less why reviewers complain about just walking but with zelda they dont??? Breath of the wild was constant walking ffs and sometimes a horse with a stupid horse system... there are plenty of vehicles here and yea u walk alot as well but the terain is fucking gorgeous. Climbing in this game is way more fun and u can make it easy with the ladders and ropes. Its the best climbing sytem. Horizon sucked in this appartment, most games do and ds nailed climbing mountains.

 

[imsosleepy]

Yeah, that has been my experience too.

The main time consuming part of each region is basically "opening up" the area on your own with your own ladders and ropes before bringing that region into the network and then from there you are able to either take advantage of others players work or build things yourself to make everything go a bit more smoothly and more quickly.

I think there is really a valid concern about how reviewers approach longer games.
If a developer is creating a game that is designed to be a 50 to 60 hour experience then surely the reviewer needs to take that into account?
It makes sense that the devs would want to keep various mechanics etc held back and reveal them as the player goes through the many hours of game.

Similarly, for a large game, the reviewer should consider all of the games systems and mechanics and explore them properly.

Too often, but especially in this case, there is a real sense that the reviewer is looking at the game as work rather than as a form of entertainment.
The developer is making something 60 hours long with the idea that they are giving the player plenty of things to do and hoping that the player will want to do those things. The reviewer is looking at that from a perspective of something that they have to do.

A player might look at a game with 60 levels/missions/quests and think "awesome lots of stuff to do" but if the reviewer is thinking "FFS 60 levels that a lot to get through" then this attitude is going to come through in the review.

Pff and sony gave them 3 fucking weeks. Thats insane and hardly happens.. and yet they complained ffs

 

[DonF]

Reviewers had access to all that stuff, including online community participation. The game will fill your world with a certain amount of other players' creations based on your likes and region's chiral bandwidth, regardless of the amount of people playing, and there were certainly enough people playing pre-release to get a sense of what the game is like now.

Yeah, I remember Skill Up mentioning that he found Yong Yea's Bike in his review. So yeah. But reviewers played a different game "world".

Now that everyone has the game, there are people who are just helping others for instance. Maybe those 3 weeks, people where just rushing to finish the game (its a long game) and focused on the most basic mechanics.

 

[SlimySnake]

I hear this "dull and repetitive" a lot and I agree to SOME extent, especially chapter 2, but there's lots of exaggeration about this.

In chapter 3 you get the exoskeleton, the Bola gun and your Bike, this makes traversal a lot easier (especially the exoskeleton, you rarely have to keep balance with that) on top of that you get missions to raid MULE camps all the time. To be honest, Death Stranding feels like any other Open World game to me. It's like playing Witcher 3 or RDR2... you go from one spot to another, do your shit and go back.

The most joy I get is from doing really hard delivery routes, where I have to plan ahead... but then you do find ladders and ropes from other players deep in the mountains trivializing the journey... which again turns this into a regular open world game, with normal gameplay.
Heck, I kind of played this like Metal Gear for a bit, to maximize efficiency. I was constantly invading MULE camps, stole their transporters and resources and helped with building and upgrading structures... while I also picked up dropped cargo and delivered that in between. That transporter makes everything so much easier and faster. lol

That gameplay loop felt most rewarding so far, since you see them "likes" trickle in all the time giving you a sense achievement... I kinda get what ShillUp meant in his review, that helping others can be an addicting gameplay loop.

But I agree that it takes a bit too long to get to the point where you have at least unlocked the bikes in chapter 3.... the slow beginning will turn some people off, especially if they're not advancing to chapter 3 and decide to stay in chapter 2 to finish missions.

FYI you get the bike as soon as you bring the wind farm back online. so pretty much the 4th mission of chapter 2.

agree with everything else. Good post.

 

[Saruhashi]

The bolded is so true and I never thought of it that way. A dev shouldn't blow their load on all the mechanics of a 50-hour game within the first 8 hours. If they did, there wouldn't be much to look forward to.

It's kind of funny because the old Zelda and Metroid games had this focus. Areas were closed off sometimes until very late in the game.
The only difference being that those games probably maxed out at maybe 15 to 20 hours.

Yet, in new games it's kind of seen as a bad thing and it's always framed as "the game doesn't get good until 20 hours" which is a real shame.

If I am buying a 50 hour game, let's say, then I know that it's going to take me a number of weeks to get through.

I'm happy with the first 10 hours (most likely my first 2 days with the game) being a slow and easy going time. Let me just get a glimpse of what's in store.

It'll be more interesting if next gen leads us to even larger games. What will reviewers do if we have 200+ hour games where certain aspects of the story or the game mechanics aren't revealed until hour 150.

The response to Death Stranding overall, especially from reviewers who apparently do influence sales, does leave me a little bit concerned regarding where things will go in the future. Something new and different isn't really given a chance and honestly I feel like some of the reviews do not match the game I have been playing.

There's a "psychology" in pacing such a long piece of entertainment also. In some ways you actually do want slower more drawn out segments as you really want the HUGE moments to hit hard when they arrive. So you are writing this massive story that is going to open up in all these weird and unexpected ways so really you do want the start of the journey to be a bit more reserved.

Maybe it's just a limitation of the medium. I don't know.

 

[SlimySnake]

So I just got an exo skeleton and walking has become much easier.
And now.. I understand even less why reviewers complain about just walking but with zelda they dont??? Breath of the wild was constant walking ffs and sometimes a horse with a stupid horse system... there are plenty of vehicles here and yea u walk alot as well but the terain is fucking gorgeous. Climbing in this game is way more fun and u can make it easy with the ladders and ropes. Its the best climbing sytem. Horizon sucked in this appartment, most games do and ds nailed climbing mountains.

dont forget RDR2. I dislike Zelda and love RDR2 but those games are far more tedious than DS. In DS, you get a bike literally 3 hours in. Unlike Zelda and RDR2, the walking in DS is engaging. the treks arent boring because enemies are strong, and scary. hell, the terrain is scary. RDR2, Zelda, Far Cry, Assassins Creed, and literally every other open world game ever made (with the exception of Horizon and Days Gone), the traversal is the most boring part of the game. you literally press up or press R2 if you are driving.

this game has reinvigorated the open world genre in my opinion. simply going to a new area is an endeavor. kojima makes 100% use of the game world in a way no one has done before. literally every rock is a challenge.

fuck the reviewers. this game actually didnt review as poorly as Days Gone, but they poisoned the well on twitter and on podcasts talking about how sadistic the game is and how much it hates the player. no wonder it flopped. worse sales than infamous second son? for the most innovative and refreshing game in years? this is all on critics.

 

[Lionel Richie]

fuck the reviewers. this game actually didnt review as poorly as Days Gone, but they poisoned the well on twitter and on podcasts talking about how sadistic the game is and how much it hates the player. no wonder it flopped. worse sales than infamous second son? for the most innovative and refreshing game in years? this is all on critics.

Isn't it too early to say it bombed? I haven't seen anywhere about the sales being terrible except for people shitposting on /v/.

 

[treemk]

Yeah, I remember Skill Up mentioning that he found Yong Yea's Bike in his review. So yeah. But reviewers played a different game "world".

Now that everyone has the game, there are people who are just helping others for instance. Maybe those 3 weeks, people where just rushing to finish the game (its a long game) and focused on the most basic mechanics.

I really wonder how much of this is reviewers making it hard for themselves because they were all playing selfishly to rush through the game and not helping each out out.

 

[Endless Fluff]

FYI you get the bike as soon as you bring the wind farm back online. so pretty much the 4th mission of chapter 2.

Well, that is technically correct, but you can't built your own bike in chapter 2 which means you'll lose the bike you get if you leave it behind.

 

[vpance]

It's kind of funny because the old Zelda and Metroid games had this focus. Areas were closed off sometimes until very late in the game.
The only difference being that those games probably maxed out at maybe 15 to 20 hours.

Yet, in new games it's kind of seen as a bad thing and it's always framed as "the game doesn't get good until 20 hours" which is a real shame.

If I am buying a 50 hour game, let's say, then I know that it's going to take me a number of weeks to get through.

I'm happy with the first 10 hours (most likely my first 2 days with the game) being a slow and easy going time. Let me just get a glimpse of what's in store.

It'll be more interesting if next gen leads us to even larger games. What will reviewers do if we have 200+ hour games where certain aspects of the story or the game mechanics aren't revealed until hour 150.

The response to Death Stranding overall, especially from reviewers who apparently do influence sales, does leave me a little bit concerned regarding where things will go in the future. Something new and different isn't really given a chance and honestly I feel like some of the reviews do not match the game I have been playing.

There's a "psychology" in pacing such a long piece of entertainment also. In some ways you actually do want slower more drawn out segments as you really want the HUGE moments to hit hard when they arrive. So you are writing this massive story that is going to open up in all these weird and unexpected ways so really you do want the start of the journey to be a bit more reserved.

Maybe it's just a limitation of the medium. I don't know.

It's a limitation of some people's attention span.

I suspect that people who like simulation/strategy/management/puzzle games would be more open to giving it time to play out. DS fooled some people because it has those elements to it while missing the common design choices of usual AAA big budget open world games.

 

[SLB1904]

10 hours in is basically still the tutorial section, and half of that is like cutscenes and dialogue.

Compared to the average AAA game, you're either half way done if it's like an Uncharted or like 15 missions into a UBI open world.

No real point here but it's not surprising to see people tapping out early.

my god this is so wrong, why dont play the game first before making a comment like a fact?

you know people dont play the game when they bring the 10hour bullshit.

the game we are playing right is completely different from the one reviewers were playing.
im watching jacksepticeye playing the game and is dead. no highways no transformers nothing. a few things here and there and that's it.

also the word of mouths is huge. people on reddit are loving it.

 

[it_wasn't_me]

fuck the reviewers. this game actually didnt review as poorly as Days Gone, but they poisoned the well on twitter and on podcasts talking about how sadistic the game is and how much it hates the player. no wonder it flopped. worse sales than infamous second son? for the most innovative and refreshing game in years? this is all on critics.

Well, game had a very good debut in Japan. Almost 200k in 2 days. We should wait the global numbers for it.

Anyway, earlier this morning i've checked the number of user reviews for DS on Meta. it was around 9k. Now is almost 9500. It's really funny to see how bunch of people desperately creates new accounts just to give score 0 for some reason. In contrary, bunch of people also creates accounts just to give score 10.

 

[SlimySnake]

Isn't it too early to say it bombed? I haven't seen anywhere about the sales being terrible except for people shitposting on /v/.

the only number i saw was the UK number which is usually a pretty good indicator for NA as well. It did worse than infamous second son which launched on a console with only a 5 million install base and much worse than Days Gone which did not do good numbers either.

its frustrating because both games were pulling in insane views on youtube. 5-10 million for e3 trailers. it makes no sense to see the games do so much worse. Days Gone also reviewed poorly and received a similar poisoning of the well on social media by these so called critics. and its one of the best games of the year.

 

[rofif]

This is some kojima esque ending combined with last guardian feels in general (last guardian ... Must replay it)
I need some explanation to confirm me theories about what happened

 

[it_wasn't_me]

the only number i saw was the UK number which is usually a pretty good indicator for NA as well. It did worse than infamous second son which launched on a console with only a 5 million install base and much worse than Days Gone which did not do good numbers either.

its frustrating because both games were pulling in insane views on youtube. 5-10 million for e3 trailers. it makes no sense to see the games do so much worse. Days Gone also reviewed poorly and received a similar poisoning of the well on social media by these so called critics. and its one of the best games of the year.

God Of War did worse than Horizon Zero Dawn during launch week in UK.

 

[Lionel Richie]

the only number i saw was the UK number which is usually a pretty good indicator for NA as well. It did worse than infamous second son which launched on a console with only a 5 million install base and much worse than Days Gone which did not do good numbers either.

its frustrating because both games were pulling in insane views on youtube. 5-10 million for e3 trailers. it makes no sense to see the games do so much worse. Days Gone also reviewed poorly and received a similar poisoning of the well on social media by these so called critics. and its one of the best games of the year.

Still, it could be a slow burner even if it doesn't immediately set the world on fire. It could sell on word of mouth. I'm sure there's plenty of people like me who are going to buy it at a discount. It will probably be alright-ish.

Second Son is such a great title. The quests are not great, but the gameplay is just so much fun. That series didn't deserve to die.

 

[MiguelItUp]

A lot of you brought up a lot of incredibly valid points. I wonder if a lot of the negative reviews and experiences journalists had revolved around the lack of community cooperation. I mean, playing through it, it's pretty clear when structures and buildings have been around for a bit, and/or have been incredibly useful. So, I wonder if their ratings would've curved at all if that was different for them.

In some situations they were placed in the PERFECT spot, I mean, so much so that I could imagine someone getting frustrated or bent out of shape only to have something placed in the PERFECT spot. Not by the game, but by another player.

Some of those very structures had less than 1K likes, so I think that says quite a bit. Hell, majority that I've come across that were incredibly useful were between 100-300. But I've definitely seen a VERY FEW that were 42K+. So it makes me wonder if rather than using the equipment and devices that the game is giving to you and offering to you to share were just avoided and it was spent on foot. In a way it reminds me of multiplayer games with lacking traffic so queues are wack or nonexistent.

I find it amusing to see people calling it a "walking simulator", it's almost always players that never cared for the game in the first place, or just saw a couple of trailers and labeled it. It's almost hard to describe, but it's definitely a lot more than that. Yes, you travel quite a bit and not always on foot, but there is SO much that goes on during your travels. So much so that I feel like calling it a "walking simulator" is completely unjust. It's like looking at a finished painting and saying it's a canvas without pointing out everything that's there.

Honestly, I wish that term would just die as it's always been a ridiculous description to me in the first place.

Edit/update: Also, I just read that this was the best selling title this generation in Japan, so I'm sure the game will be just fine. Did it bomb? Not at all as far as I know. Was it a blockbuster hit? In some cases, just maybe. But it didn't produce COD/Fortnite/etc. numbers, but it's clear Kojima and his studio weren't expecting that. But I think in its own way, it was very successful. Especially as a AAA title of its size doing something that is pretty damn risky and different. Though, a lot of people won't recognize that, and will just say it's "boring and stupid."

 

[ethomaz]

the only number i saw was the UK number which is usually a pretty good indicator for NA as well. It did worse than infamous second son which launched on a console with only a 5 million install base and much worse than Days Gone which did not do good numbers either.

its frustrating because both games were pulling in insane views on youtube. 5-10 million for e3 trailers. it makes no sense to see the games do so much worse. Days Gone also reviewed poorly and received a similar poisoning of the well on social media by these so called critics. and its one of the best games of the year.

Days Gone did amazing in UK.
It is still the second best selling there this year.

What are you trying to spin?

Death Stranding did pretty good in UK... 36% lower than Days Gone zoombies.

 

[ethomaz]

Still, it could be a slow burner even if it doesn't immediately set the world on fire. It could sell on word of mouth. I'm sure there's plenty of people like me who are going to buy it at a discount. It will probably be alright-ish.

Second Son is such a great title. The quests are not great, but the gameplay is just so much fun. That series didn't deserve to die.

His UK data are out of context.
Days Gone did great in UK since launch.
It is pretty successful there.
36% below that is great.

 

[mckmas8808]

Days Gone did amazing in UK.
It is still the second best selling there this year.

What are you trying to spin?

Death Stranding did pretty good in UK... 36% lower than Days Gone zoombies.

Yeah why are people's information on Days Gone so wrong? We literally have the numbers to prove otherwise.

 

[Lionel Richie]

His UK data are out of context.
Days Gone did great in UK since launch.
It is pretty successful there.
36% below that is great.

Yeah, figured he probably saw someone shitposting about DS flopping and took it to heart. It's far too early to call.

 

[GooseMan69]

I think ill try this game via Redbox. Ive never been overly impressed with big Sony exclusives. For instance, TLOU is the most overrated game of all time in my opinion.

I also hold the opinion that 99/100 times when someone says their “art” is too deep for you to understand if you didnt like it, typically its just a complete mess jumbled together and “art” is excuse for the mess. If make a big enough of a mess and claim to be a grand orchestrator then people will find your deep meaning for you so that they can be in the club of true intellects.

When i read this thread i see many people desperately trying to justify endless walking as an “experience” or even “fun”. Ill eat my words if it is actually that but i have a hunch its just people wanting to feel above other people, thats what being pretentious is.

Nobody is trying to justify anything. Many people are simply enjoying the gameplay loop, online community, and the extremely deep mechanics. Along with the story.

 

[tassletine]

I think ill try this game via Redbox. Ive never been overly impressed with big Sony exclusives. For instance, TLOU is the most overrated game of all time in my opinion.

I also hold the opinion that 99/100 times when someone says their “art” is too deep for you to understand if you didnt like it, typically its just a complete mess jumbled together and “art” is excuse for the mess. If make a big enough of a mess and claim to be a grand orchestrator then people will find your deep meaning for you so that they can be in the club of true intellects.

When i read this thread i see many people desperately trying to justify endless walking as an “experience” or even “fun”. Ill eat my words if it is actually that but i have a hunch its just people wanting to feel above other people, thats what being pretentious is.

I Agree with your premise, except where it come to Last of Us.
As far as I remember that game was never marketed as 'art' -- Although it may never have been received as such.

Last of Us, is very focused, both in gameplay (survival) and what it takes to survive (it's theme the story revolves around).
The reason it's revered is because of that focus, and the explorations of the themes surrounding the core gameplay.
In short, it tried (finally, and sucessfully) to thematically justify all the killing that you had to do in previous games in that genre. It worked. And was suitably depressing.

That you can't see how focused Last of US -- that it's not muddied or deep, in fact the exact opposite -- that marks this criticism out and makes me think that you don't just want anything nuanced.
By all means criticise the gamplay.

--

I haven't played Death Stranding though -- The title alone sound pretty pretentious. So you may be right.

 

[ethomaz]

I Agree with your premise, except where it come to Last of Us.
As far as I remember that game was never marketed as 'art' -- Although it may never have been received as such.

Last of Us, is very focused, both in gameplay (survival) and what it takes to survive (it's theme the story revolves around).
The reason it's revered is because of that focus, and the explorations of the themes surrounding the core gameplay.
In short, it tried (finally, and sucessfully) to thematically justify all the killing that you had to do in previous games in that genre. It worked. And was suitably depressing.

That you can't see how focused Last of US -- that it's not muddied or deep, in fact the exact opposite -- that marks this criticism out and makes me think that you don't just want anything nuanced.
By all means criticise the gamplay.

--

I haven't played Death Stranding though -- The title alone sound pretty pretentious. So you may be right.

It is a game... it is not art when you have rules, you can win or lose, you have points, etc etc etc.
A game as art should be something you have only control of the camera (walking) to see what was designed as art... you can't have interaction.

You can created a game as a art form but it lose the "game" part being only a exhibition of the 3D art.
That is not the case of Death Stranding or even The Last of Us... they are both games.

What is more close to art in game media are the visual novels like Steins;Gate.

Nobody will ever marketed a game as art unless it using metaphor... a lot of reviewers uses the world "art" in a metaphor way for some games but they are still games.

 

[mckmas8808]

I haven't played Death Stranding though -- The title alone sound pretty pretentious. So you may be right.

How does the title "Death Stranding" sound pretentious?

 

[DeepEnigma]

How does the title "Death Stranding" sound pretentious?

Whipping out all the adages until something sticks.

 

[SlimySnake]

Days Gone did amazing in UK.
It is still the second best selling there this year.

What are you trying to spin?

Death Stranding did pretty good in UK... 36% lower than Days Gone zoombies.

lol spin? im on your side fam.

i cant find the uk thread but it was posted here a couple of days ago. IIRC, DS sold worse than infamous second son which ranked 9th among all ps exclusives.

Sony usually gloats about multi million sellers so i always find it odd when they dont do that for games like Detroit and Days Gone. It proves to me that the game didnt sell well.

notice how both games were reviewed poorly. a 78 for detroit is insane considering its the best game in its genre. probably ever. a 70 for days gone is laughable and no doubt affected the first week sales.

These critics cannot be trusted anymore. sony needs to stop sending out review copies. its hurting great games.

 

[MiguelItUp]

How does the title "Death Stranding" sound pretentious?

I was wondering the same thing. Man, imagine being turned off by game titles so much that you wouldn't touch them as a result. There would be SO many games I wouldn't have touched, lol.

I love the title, especially since it's a play on words in so many ways and it all correlates with the game. Which, in my opinion, is SO good. Ain't the first time something like this has been done, and it won't be the last.

I really don't understand how it comes off as pretentious, lmao.

 

[ethomaz]

lol spin? im on your side fam.

i cant find the uk thread but it was posted here a couple of days ago. IIRC, DS sold worse than infamous second son which ranked 9th among all ps exclusives.

Sony usually gloats about multi million sellers so i always find it odd when they dont do that for games like Detroit and Days Gone. It proves to me that the game didnt sell well.

notice how both games were reviewed poorly. a 78 for detroit is insane considering its the best game in its genre. probably ever. a 70 for days gone is laughable and no doubt affected the first week sales.

These critics cannot be trusted anymore. sony needs to stop sending out review copies. its hurting great games.

The thread about DS selling well? I saw it.

 

[Eiknarf]

dont forget RDR2. I dislike Zelda and love RDR2 but those games are far more tedious than DS. In DS, you get a bike literally 3 hours in. Unlike Zelda and RDR2, the walking in DS is engaging. the treks arent boring because enemies are strong, and scary. hell, the terrain is scary. RDR2, Zelda, Far Cry, Assassins Creed, and literally every other open world game ever made (with the exception of Horizon and Days Gone), the traversal is the most boring part of the game. you literally press up or press R2 if you are driving.

this game has reinvigorated the open world genre in my opinion. simply going to a new area is an endeavor. kojima makes 100% use of the game world in a way no one has done before. literally every rock is a challenge.

fuck the reviewers. this game actually didnt review as poorly as Days Gone, but they poisoned the well on twitter and on podcasts talking about how sadistic the game is and how much it hates the player. no wonder it flopped. worse sales than infamous second son? for the most innovative and refreshing game in years? this is all on critics.

But is it “all on the critics”? (The poor sales)

It averaged an 83. That’s pretty good!

I would understand blaming the critics if the average was a 68 or something

 

[Terenty]

I actually wonder if the community aspect really was the main factor of reviewers shitting on DS.

Don't get me wrong most game journos are useless, but the online aspect is absolutely vital for the game to function properly.

It maybe the first time in history when a game can't be properly reviewed before release at all.

 

[SlimySnake]

But is it “all on the critics”? (The poor sales)

It averaged an 83. That’s pretty good!

I would understand blaming the critics if the average was a 68 or something

its 83 now? last i checked at launch it was 85. it was only 2 points below Gears 5 and Spiderman and yet if you were on social media before launch, all you heard was how punishing the game was. how polarizing the game was. all i heard was how even people who liked it hated it. and those who hated it took cheap shots at kojima.

again, this was when the game was at 85. it definitely didnt feel like an 85. and thats what i mean when i say poisoned the well. they led a classic youtuber bandwagon outrage your dunkeys, jimquistions and angry joe usually lead. they didnt even dislike it enough to give it a bad score but they had no trouble trashing the game on social media.

 

[LuvOfThaGame]

its 83 now? last i checked at launch it was 85. it was only 2 points below Gears 5 and Spiderman and yet if you were on social media before launch, all you heard was how punishing the game was. how polarizing the game was. all i heard was how even people who liked it hated it. and those who hated it took cheap shots at kojima.

again, this was when the game was at 85. it definitely didnt feel like an 85. and thats what i mean when i say poisoned the well. they led a classic youtuber bandwagon outrage your dunkeys, jimquistions and angry joe usually lead. they didnt even dislike it enough to give it a bad score but they had no trouble trashing the game on social media.

If you read the reviews, they mostly still say the same thing about those points. It's just the score is suspiciously high for how the actual reviews read. We already know Famitsu score is bought and paid for. Seems OP or mods is going to continue to allow an inaccurate OP with metacritic and opencritic scores.

Not sure why fans are upset. There is way more sweeping under the rug in favor of DS than biased bashing. I read these threads and their complaints and think, try being an xbox fan. Every xbox thread is 10x worse than this. You got it good.

 

[whyman]

Ok I finished the game after 61 hours. I think it’s a must play and I loved every second of it. This game will not reward you for being lazy, unimaginative and antisocial. I can see why some gamers and reviewers had a problem with Death Stranding.

 

[Dr.Morris79]

Another game that kind of makes me doubt the credibility of professional video game reviewers and has me concerned about their influence over sales of more niche games such as this.

I'd love to see many, many, more games like Death Stranding on the market.

Unfortunately, I feel like this kind of "progress" within the gaming industry is hindered by people who have very very specific ideas of what a "videogame" can be or even ought to be.

After 3 full days with this game I even struggle to understand how people can make the case that it isn't "fun". There is plenty of fun to be had here.

More concerning is just the lack of real deep and thoughtful reflection on what Kojima was aiming for here.
Personally, I think this game and Sekiro are pretty much even as far as game of the year is concerned.

However, both of my game of the year contenders are "not fun" it seems.

It's fucking bullshit. I think the medium has evolved so much since the 1980s that we probably really need to ask if "game" is the correct description for some of these things anymore. If we are still cool with "game" as a descriptor then at least we need to stop holding videogames to the rigid dictionary definition of "game".

This thing is a total revelation as far as I am concerned.
The level of immersion, the stunning set-pieces, the world building, the story telling, the perfect drip feeding of information to the player, the constantly expanding possibilities as you put more and more hours into the game.

I feel like a lot of reviewers take the approach of "here is what I think a game should be and here is all the ways that this one isn't doing what I want".
Instead of looking at what is actually going on here they are looking for something else.

Don't get me wrong. I can see where the game is not insane fun like Castle Crashers (for example) or Spider-Man BUUUUUUT this one was never trying to be like that.

It's SUPPOSED to be a more thoughtful and measured experience and it's just so disappointing to see reviewers miss the point completely and then have people pounce on the one or two shitty reviews to create an impression that the game is not worth buying or playing.

It's kind of shocking that some of these people actually get paid to do this for a living.

Couldnt agree more. Well said.

 

[LokusAbriss]

Another game that kind of makes me doubt the credibility of professional video game reviewers and has me concerned about their influence over sales of more niche games such as this.

I'd love to see many, many, more games like Death Stranding on the market.

Unfortunately, I feel like this kind of "progress" within the gaming industry is hindered by people who have very very specific ideas of what a "videogame" can be or even ought to be.

After 3 full days with this game I even struggle to understand how people can make the case that it isn't "fun". There is plenty of fun to be had here.

More concerning is just the lack of real deep and thoughtful reflection on what Kojima was aiming for here.
Personally, I think this game and Sekiro are pretty much even as far as game of the year is concerned.

However, both of my game of the year contenders are "not fun" it seems.

It's fucking bullshit. I think the medium has evolved so much since the 1980s that we probably really need to ask if "game" is the correct description for some of these things anymore. If we are still cool with "game" as a descriptor then at least we need to stop holding videogames to the rigid dictionary definition of "game".

This thing is a total revelation as far as I am concerned.
The level of immersion, the stunning set-pieces, the world building, the story telling, the perfect drip feeding of information to the player, the constantly expanding possibilities as you put more and more hours into the game.

I feel like a lot of reviewers take the approach of "here is what I think a game should be and here is all the ways that this one isn't doing what I want".
Instead of looking at what is actually going on here they are looking for something else.

Don't get me wrong. I can see where the game is not insane fun like Castle Crashers (for example) or Spider-Man BUUUUUUT this one was never trying to be like that.

It's SUPPOSED to be a more thoughtful and measured experience and it's just so disappointing to see reviewers miss the point completely and then have people pounce on the one or two shitty reviews to create an impression that the game is not worth buying or playing.

It's kind of shocking that some of these people actually get paid to do this for a living.

They have become more like "professional" pr people for the big publishers. Their income is generated through clicks and ads. They won't hammer down on the products of the big ones. See the ign us review for the latest Need for Speed from EA. A solid 8. And EA likes to invite people of interest and reviewers to their big parties. That just tells me enough.

There is a reason why streamers / youtubers became so big. Even when they are paid too, they show you the product in detail and you can make up your mind easier. You will get a much better idea about a game, when watching a stream for an hour or so, than reading a half assed review.

I have a hard time understanding such people. Playing games and watching movies as their only occupation. How can you not burn out over it? Then all the influence from advertisers and companies who may or may not restrict your access to review material down the line.

There are very good people in the industry, but they are hard to find. And detailed criticism is actually very good and needed. Especially with a controversal game like DS. You have so many people here who dont enjoy it, after they played for many hours. They either have ignored the negative points in the reviews or didnt watched the long gameplay videos from Kojima. People like to complain and they even buy games that they know they wont enjoy, to have a reason to do so.

The only one you should trust to value a game or movie, is yourself. There are enough reviewers, streamers and material to get an idea, if you like something or not.