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Denuvo mail database and other information leak

Crono27

Member
I don't care what your assumptions made by, I hate all kinds of DRM and wont support with.
Simple.

Also I am gonna drop this image to here. Maybe devs should focus on their games and making better them instead using DRM techniques.


1486313985450.png

This is a joke right...
 

Sajko

Member
Rockstar. Where is anything about them?

I can't seem to find anything. Just some dude with Rockstar word in his email asking about pointless things.
 
Incoming Witcher 3 meme in these DRM threads.

Some people really really hate Denuvo, of course only the people who hate it because of 'game preservation'. Or now recently it's the cost of Denuvo and people thinking it's not worth it.

Is it me or is this hack not saying that much.
 
lol witcher 3 was nr 1 on every damn torrent site.
shame they didn't use denuvo
could have earned them a lot of money

Witcher 3 is also CDPR best selling game.

Safe to say that piracy only has a marginal effect on sales when your big enough.
 

Mozendo

Member
Also I am gonna drop this image to here. Maybe devs should focus on their games and making better them instead using DRM techniques.

Blood Dragon was a $15
Just Cause 3, Homefront: The Revolution, and Anno 2205 had bad to mixed reception
Hitman Absolution was $15 within a month and a half of releasing iirc and had multiple sales and was featured in a few bundles, same thing goes for Tomb Raider iirc
Limbo was found in multiple bundles.
 

Spukc

always chasing the next thrill
Witcher 3 is also CDPR best selling game.

Safe to say that piracy only has a marginal effect on sales when your big enough.

So your point is ?
If you are big you can miss out on cash?

i better steal a car ford is big enough
 
Guys, this is no laughing matter. If we don't let video games phone home with encrypted information that we can't examine, video gaming will literally die. Literally. You're killing Mr. Video Games here, and you're laughing about it? SMH towards this toxic community.
 
I don't care what your assumptions made by, I hate all kinds of DRM and wont support with.
Simple.

Also I am gonna drop this image to here. Maybe devs should focus on their games and making better them instead using DRM techniques.


1486313985450.png

Thereitis.gif

Solid arguments.
 
The fact that we only get user inquiries rather than Denuvo responses makes this not particularly interesting.

Interesting to see a few emails from non-video-game software developers. I'm kind of surprised this hasn't happened yet; presumably someone like Adobe, for example, could benefit from putting Denuvo on Photoshop.
 

Fredrik

Member
It is DRM, though, just to be clear. It's not merely an "anti-tamper" mechanism: it imposes an activation limit (which, granted, is practically a non-issue for most users), mandatory first-run online authentication and periodical online re-authentication.
Is any of those security checks a problem for anyone with a gaming PC today though? I guess the issues might come 10-20 years later though when/if the Denuvo servers are down.
 

Spukc

always chasing the next thrill
Guys, this is no laughing matter. If we don't let video games phone home with encrypted information that we can't examine, video gaming will literally die. Literally. You're killing Mr. Video Games here, and you're laughing about it? SMH towards this toxic community.

tinfoil-hat-guy1.jpg
 

Ibuki

Banned
I don't care what your assumptions made by, I hate all kinds of DRM and wont support with.
Simple.

Also I am gonna drop this image to here. Maybe devs should focus on their games and making better them instead using DRM techniques.

I don't know how much the rest of you know about DRM culture (I'm an expert).
 
It is DRM, though, just to be clear, rather than merely an "anti-tamper" mechanism: it imposes an activation limit (which, granted, is practically a non-issue for most users), mandatory first-run online authentication and periodical online re-authentication.

You're partially wrong. Denuvo allows a limit on how many PC's a game can be activated on within 24 hours, but doesn't have an activation limit on the lifetime of the product.

It does require a one-time online activation when it runs, but that's the same as Steam. Nobody cries about Steam as hard as Denuvo.

Also, it doesn't require periodical online re-authentication. Maybe upon a reinstall, but you'd be going online to download the game anyway. Who even buys retail PC copies these days? Most require partial game downloads from services like Steam or Origin, so box copies are useless.

But hey, lets all get worked up over the Denuvo boogeyman without actually knowing what we are arguing against.
 

rrs

Member
Guys, this is no laughing matter. If we don't let video games phone home with encrypted information that we can't examine, video gaming will literally die. Literally. You're killing Mr. Video Games here, and you're laughing about it? SMH towards this toxic community.
yes, the video games need all my credit card numbers or games will be dead forever and we have to go back to complaining about books and finding porn in the ravine next to that kid's house with the basement swimming pool
 

Pokemaniac

Member
I'm surprised there is no law that requires databases to be encrypted by now.

The NSA and various other government agencies have a vested interest in keeping security as crappy as possible for everyone that is not them.

Regardless, this sounds more like a log file that really shouldn't have been publicly accessibly than any sort of unauthorized db access.
 
Uwe Roth said:
We are intrigued by your protection system and would like to know more about the functionalities and possibilities of Denuvo.

Thus, I would like to ask, if you could provide us with additional product information regarding the following subjects:
[...]
-Can it be used to protect games distributed on GoG.com (since GoG doesn't use any DRM I'm not sure)?

Um, you kind of answered your own question there, buddy.

The GoG community would go ballistic if they discovered a game used Denuvo...
 
The fact that we only get user inquiries rather than Denuvo responses makes this not particularly interesting.

Interesting to see a few emails from non-video-game software developers. I'm kind of surprised this hasn't happened yet; presumably someone like Adobe, for example, could benefit from putting Denuvo on Photoshop.

They don't care anymore. Even said that almost literally.

Adobe Cloud is going to be their main focus in the future imo. That's why I see why lots of other pirated software going to the cloud sooner or later. It's an easy experience for the user and the publishers know that no-one can pirate that.
 

warheat

Member
I don't care what your assumptions made by, I hate all kinds of DRM and wont support with.
Simple.

Also I am gonna drop this image to here. Maybe devs should focus on their games and making better them instead using DRM techniques.


1486313985450.png

what a dumb comparison, everyone and their grandma have these games because it's on bundle or it has been on sale many times.
 

prudislav

Member
Also, it doesn't require periodical online re-authentication. Maybe upon a reinstall, but you'd be going online to download the game anyway. Who even buys retail PC copies these days? Most require partial game downloads from services like Steam or Origin, so box copies are useless.
.
not true there definitely is some periodicity or licence expiration or something on it at least in the titles i had on boat trip
 

NeonBlack

Member
I don't care what your assumptions made by, I hate all kinds of DRM and wont support with.
Simple.

Also I am gonna drop this image to here. Maybe devs should focus on their games and making better them instead using DRM techniques.

Are you comparing games that have been put on sale multiple times for years to ones that are barely a year old?
 

Fredrik

Member
You're partially wrong. Denuvo allows a limit on how many PC's a game can be activated on within 24 hours, but doesn't have an activation limit on the lifetime of the product.

It does require a one-time online activation when it runs, but that's the same as Steam. Nobody cries about Steam as hard as Denuvo.

Also, it doesn't require periodical online re-authentication. Maybe upon a reinstall, but you'd be going online to download the game anyway. Who even buys retail PC copies these days? Most require partial game downloads from services like Steam or Origin, so box copies are useless.

But hey, lets all get worked up over the Denuvo boogeyman without actually knowing what we are arguing against.
Thanks for explaining, looks like it's just complaints because it's fun to complain, or something.

It might be a problem in the end if/when the Denuvo servers are down though. I think it'll sort itself out if the devs are still there though, I bought Dirt 3 on a sale but couldn't play it because it was a GFWL version and GFWL was no more, but after half a year the devs put up a new version on Steam without the GFWL checks.
 

Vuze

Member
I don't care what your assumptions made by, I hate all kinds of DRM and wont support with.
Simple.

Also I am gonna drop this image to here. Maybe devs should focus on their games and making better them instead using DRM techniques.
I dislike Denuvo as much as the next guy but: What a nonsense "comparison", I hope you're joking with this.

You're partially wrong. Denuvo allows a limit on how many PC's a game can be activated on within 24 hours, but doesn't have an activation limit on the lifetime of the product.

It does require a one-time online activation when it runs, but that's the same as Steam. Nobody cries about Steam as hard as Denuvo.

Also, it doesn't require periodical online re-authentication. Maybe upon a reinstall, but you'd be going online to download the game anyway. Who even buys retail PC copies these days? Most require partial game downloads from services like Steam or Origin, so box copies are useless.

But hey, lets all get worked up over the Denuvo boogeyman without actually knowing what we are arguing against.
It does after every patch at minimum. Witnessed this myself with MGSV which I blocked from phoning home due to the in-game online nonsense. New patch = new Denuvo popup. Good after verification.
 
They don't care anymore. Even said that almost literally.

Adobe Cloud is going to be their main focus in the future imo. That's why I see why lots of other pirated software going to the cloud sooner or later. It's an easy experience for the user and the publishers know that no-one can pirate that.

I'm not sure what you mean in context? One of the reasons you buy Adobe Cloud is to get access to Photoshop, Illustrator, etc, and they can absolutely still be pirated.

And Creative Suite is hardly the only piece of expensive non-gaming software that a company would presumably want to protect, it's just the first one that came to my mind.
 
It does after every patch at minimum. Witnessed this myself with MGSV which I blocked from phoning home due to the in-game online nonsense. New patch = new Denuvo popup. Good after verification.

I know for sure that Total War: Warhammer doesn't do any of that. It must surely be per dev requirements and desires.
 

Aretak

Member
Also, it doesn't require periodical online re-authentication. Maybe upon a reinstall, but you'd be going online to download the game anyway. Who even buys retail PC copies these days? Most require partial game downloads from services like Steam or Origin, so box copies are useless.
You're wrong about this. My shitty internet goes down every now and then, and trying to launch any Denuvo game that I haven't played for a while will result in the same error message requesting to go online.

An example I made a few days ago via firewall blocking to illustrate this fact. All games I already had installed and had played on this machine, but hadn't played for some time. The error message is identical across all Denuvo games from all publishers. The 'Next' button directs you to a support site presumably run by Denuvo, since all Denuvo games seem to have them, no matter the publisher.

https://support.codefusion.technology/deusex/
https://support.codefusion.technology/pes2017/
https://support.codefusion.technology/justcause3/
https://support.codefusion.technology/doom/
https://support.codefusion.technology/totalwar/
https://support.codefusion.technology/rotr54675345/

And so on. The window for reactivation seems to be about a week, incidentally. It also doesn't try to activate every time you launch the game. There's a set interval in play and it isn't reset on every launch. It checks to a set schedule.

I can appreciate people not knowing about this "feature," as most people are constantly connected to the internet these days. But it very much does exist, and raises questions about what happens to Denuvo games long-term if the servers they want to hit are no longer there at some point in the future. It would need to be patched out.
 

iskeledz

Banned
I'm not sure this sentence makes any sense. Someone has proven that DRM free games aren't pirated by 100% of users? What does 'possible to sell games' even mean?

I'm not sure what you don't understand. It's possible to sell AAA games on PC without any DRM (from day one), cover the costs of development and still turn a huge profit. And yes, I know there were also PS4 and Xbox One versions.
What I don't understand is why ANY gamer would want to defend any form of DRM. What's in it for you? Are you some sort of moral compass? Do you work for these people? Are you afraid that EA, Rockstar or Ubisoft will go bankrupt and you won't get your yearly copy-pasted game installment? There must be some sort of (very successful) brainwashing going on because these people are doing things that hurt you as a consumer (even if it might seem like just a minor annoyance) and you still defend them.
 

JaseC

gave away the keys to the kingdom.
You're partially wrong. Denuvo allows a limit on how many PC's a game can be activated on within 24 hours, but doesn't have an activation limit on the lifetime of the product.

Right, but that's still an activation limit. As I said, though, it's practically a non-issue for most users.

It does require a one-time online activation when it runs, but that's the same as Steam. Nobody cries about Steam as hard as Denuvo.

Actually, Steam doesn't impose a mandatory first-run online authentication. That's misunderstanding born from a false belief that Denuvo isn't itself DRM but rather just piggy-backs on the DRM native to the platform with which the game interacts. Provided there's no additional DRM that imposes such a restriction, you can play a game in Offline Mode immediately after the download completes.

Also, it doesn't require periodical online re-authentication. Maybe upon a reinstall, but you'd be going online to download the game anyway.

Aretak has already covered this well enough, so I'll refrain from retreading ground.

Who even buys retail PC copies these days? Most require partial game downloads from services like Steam or Origin, so box copies are useless.

If you re-read my post, you'll notice that I didn't comment on disc checks. I was supporting his underlying, broader concern that DRM adds a question mark to the long-term playability of the games it protects.

But hey, lets all get worked up over the Denuvo boogeyman without actually knowing what we are arguing against.

I assure you I'm hardly frustrated, and I understand what Denuvo is.
 

horkrux

Member
The mails listed in the OP look like troll mails lol Like someone acted like he was from a game company in order for them to leak information. 'Please send me the original executables' just fucking lol

You're wrong about this. My shitty internet goes down every now and then, and trying to launch any Denuvo game that I haven't played for a while will result in the same error message requesting to go online.


An example I made a few days ago via firewall blocking to illustrate this fact. All games I already had installed and had played on this machine, but hadn't played for some time. The error message is identical across all Denuvo games from all publishers. The 'Next' button directs you to a support site presumably run by Denuvo, since all Denuvo games seem to have them, no matter the publisher.

https://support.codefusion.technology/deusex/
https://support.codefusion.technology/pes2017/
https://support.codefusion.technology/justcause3/
https://support.codefusion.technology/doom/
https://support.codefusion.technology/totalwar/
https://support.codefusion.technology/rotr54675345/

And so on. The window for reactivation seems to be about a week, incidentally. It also doesn't try to activate every time you launch the game. There's a set interval in play and it isn't reset on every launch. It checks to a set schedule.

I can appreciate people not knowing about this "feature," as most people are constantly connected to the internet these days. But it very much does exist, and raises questions about what happens to Denuvo games long-term if the servers they want to hit are no longer there at some point in the future. It would need to be patched out.

See, but this might simply be because the game was updated in the meantime. You can't go by daily coincidences and then claim it was so and so, because you're likely to confuse what was actually the cause.
Updated games need to be reverified before you can continue playing them offline. Don't know about all of them, but I think it's established that some of them do. In order to properly test for any other mandatory checks, you would have to keep Steam in offline mode while playing a game for a longer time.
 
See, but this might simply be because the game was updated in the meantime. You can't go by daily coincidences and then claim it was so and so, because you're likely to confuse what was actually the cause.
Updated games need to be reverified before you can continue playing them offline. Don't know about all of them, but I think it's established that some of them do. In order to properly test for any other mandatory checks, you would have to keep Steam in offline mode while playing a game for a longer time.

So it does require periodical online re-authentication then, If it needs to be re verified every time a game is updated.

Because games get updated all the fucking time.
 
So your point is ?
If you are big you can miss out on cash?

i better steal a car ford is big enough

Piracy isn't preventing success.

So, based on the fact that Witcher 3 is the best selling CDPR game, you can say that piracy has a marginal effect on sales?

Well yeah, they were sending emails to people who pirated The Witcher 2 which most likely lower the piracy rates.

They admitted that it was a mistake and let the game be DRM free while selling it that way themselves.

According to some of you that would mean that since the game is easily pirated it would lower sales but that didn't happen, they sold way more in less time then before.
 
I'm not sure what you don't understand. It's possible to sell AAA games on PC without any DRM (from day one), cover the costs of development and still turn a huge profit. And yes, I know there were also PS4 and Xbox One versions.
What I don't understand is why ANY gamer would want to defend any form of DRM. What's in it for you? Are you some sort of moral compass? Do you work for these people? Are you afraid that EA, Rockstar or Ubisoft will go bankrupt and you won't get your yearly copy-pasted game installment? There must be some sort of (very successful) brainwashing going on because these people are doing things that hurt you as a consumer (even if it might seem like just a minor annoyance) and you still defend them.
Because as a developer, I resent people taking content without paying for it. Because Denuvo hasn't caused me even the slightest of inconvenience. Even if I had purely selfish motivations, what's good for the developers is good for gamers in the long run.
 

Pacotez

Member
Those games have been out for ages, put in multiple bundles, and even given away free at times.


This.
I'm on the anti-denuvo team and I do think DRM doesn't affect sales most of the time (when it does it's negativewise) but that pic is bs, specially the JC2 and JC3 comparison.
Gotta establish a time-frame for comparison first
 

horkrux

Member
So it does require periodical online re-authentication then, If it needs to be re verified every time a game is updated.

Because games get updated all the fucking time.

If you want it to be. My point was that there is no sufficient proof that a game needs to be checked after a set amount of time specifically. People often claim it, but only supported with anecdotal evidence if any.

Atleast you know when a game was/is updated and you could avoid it alltogether by staying in offline mode. There would be no such thing with reverifications after a week or so. Unless you turned back your clock or something like that lol
 

Paragon

Member
You're partially wrong. Denuvo allows a limit on how many PC's a game can be activated on within 24 hours, but doesn't have an activation limit on the lifetime of the product.

It does require a one-time online activation when it runs, but that's the same as Steam. Nobody cries about Steam as hard as Denuvo.

Also, it doesn't require periodical online re-authentication. Maybe upon a reinstall, but you'd be going online to download the game anyway. Who even buys retail PC copies these days? Most require partial game downloads from services like Steam or Origin, so box copies are useless.
It requires reauthentication every time they patch the game.
New releases using Denuvo often get small <100KB "patches" pushed out 2-4 times a week for their first month or two to force reactivation.
Steam often downloads these in the background without me noticing, since they're tiny, but then if I go to play a game when my connection is offline I'm blocked from playing it.
Every single game that I've bought using Denuvo has been a nuisance - even the RE7 demo used it.

If you're relatively new to PC gaming, and/or happen to have a good internet with very high uptime, maybe you don't care about the inconvenience.
But as someone that's been playing PC games all his life, and still goes back and plays old games, DRM like Denuvo is a real problem for the preservation of games - especially if it relies upon a server still existing 20 years from now.

Instead, it's more likely that a game would be pulled from sale or left to die if the servers disappeared, rather than have the publisher remove the DRM.
We know that developers/publishers often don't hold onto old code, as some games have been redistributed on digital platforms using cracks that strip out the DRM rather than distributing clean executables.
 

sn00zer

Member
I don't care what your assumptions made by, I hate all kinds of DRM and wont support with.
Simple.

Also I am gonna drop this image to here. Maybe devs should focus on their games and making better them instead using DRM techniques.


1486313985450.png
This is one of the dumbest images I have ever seen jeezus
 
I don't care what your assumptions made by, I hate all kinds of DRM and wont support with.
Simple.

Also I am gonna drop this image to here. Maybe devs should focus on their games and making better them instead using DRM techniques.


1486313985450.png

Hey man, you might like to know that Polygon is hiring! ;)
 
Also I am gonna drop this image to here. Maybe devs should focus on their games and making better them instead using DRM techniques.

I mean in a vacuum devoid of any relevant circumstance you'd have a point there. Luckily, we aren't in a vacuum because your brain needs a little bit more air to function correctly in this argument.
 

opricnik

Banned
Because as a developer, I resent people taking content without paying for it. Because Denuvo hasn't caused me even the slightest of inconvenience. Even if I had purely selfish motivations, what's good for the developers is good for gamers in the long run.

"what's good for the developers is good for gamers in the long run."

That's not how it works . This was never how it was and never it will be.

It's exact opposite.Developers should be gamers just like Iwata one said. If you are a gamer you should know this a stupid thing and as a developer you are already gamer.

You gotta make gamers happy so you are happy cause you are a gamer after all not a worker.

***

All others calling me or image dumb , i didnt make it image but i should have said you guys should focus on daily/2weeks active numbers instead of highlighted sale numbers.

Some would think current game would more active players right? If all posters quoted me were saying things like "i got from bundle never installed lol" . Yeah well sure it seems people who actively play these games dont agree with you.
 

Caffeine

Member
i honestly don't think that list is entirely a joke i've seen many posts on the steam forums and reddit where people were completely against buying a game cause of denuvo.

I mean I know most of that is life time sales vs a short period it should be similar amount of time frame data tbh. plus i know older steam sales were hella better compared to now.
 

Trup1aya

Member
I'm not sure what you don't understand. It's possible to sell AAA games on PC without any DRM (from day one), cover the costs of development and still turn a huge profit. And yes, I know there were also PS4 and Xbox One versions.
What I don't understand is why ANY gamer would want to defend any form of DRM. What's in it for you? Are you some sort of moral compass? Do you work for these people? Are you afraid that EA, Rockstar or Ubisoft will go bankrupt and you won't get your yearly copy-pasted game installment? There must be some sort of (very successful) brainwashing going on because these people are doing things that hurt you as a consumer (even if it might seem like just a minor annoyance) and you still defend them.

Its not brainwashing for someone to understand the importance of protecting the value of one's intellectual property.

Video game piracy is a lot like counterfeiting, applying downward pressure on the publics percieved value of an item or brand...except its worse here, because the scammers are able to produce a product that is AS GOOD as the real thing.

I absolutely hate that no one has come up with a way to protect digital IP without impacting legitimate customers. But it's perfectly reasonable for companies to want everyone with copies of their product to have paid for them.

It would be really nice if publishers would commit to removing drm once the front loaded sales die down.
 
the whole "denuvo buycott" will only work for games that aren't popular among "casuals"

the average gamer (the actual average gamer, not a person on neogaf) could give 3.5 shits about Denuvo since the average gamer is also more likely to be a console gamer

so big games sales won't be affected, specially multiplayer ones

As long as Denuvo doesn't have an actual practical negative effect on the gaming experience, the reasons against it make no sense if you're a person who thinks pirating games is wrong
 

c0de

Member
Amazing. They know so much about code and securing it but make the dumbest decisions when it comes to securing whole systems.
 

opricnik

Banned
the whole "denuvo buycott" will only work for games that aren't popular among "casuals"

the average gamer (the actual average gamer, not a person on neogaf) could give 3.5 shits about Denuvo since the average gamer is also more likely to be a console gamer

so big games sales won't be affected, specially multiplayer ones

As long as Denuvo doesn't have an actual practical negative effect on the gaming experience, the reasons against it make no sense if you're a person who thinks pirating games is wrong

Denuvo is a thing for in your own words not average gamer.

Of course people will talk about and upper their voices about it.

Honestly what am i supposed to get from your own comment?
Are you telling PC sales doesnt matter so publishers doesnt need to care , implement all shit things to secure their IP, release terrible Ports
since lol "average gamer " is on console anyway ?

PC sales are incredibly strong and Denuvo affect people.
 
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