texhnolyze
Banned
well done, miller.skippins
That's.. not really a hard guess to make.
well done, miller.skippins
I don't think people understand what game engines are when they say it's the same engine or it's a brand new engine. I feel like an updated/modified engine will get looked upon as a brand new if it provides a graphical boost (idtech 5- idtech 6) but at the same time an updated engine will get looked upon as "legacy crap" even it it looks significantly better but ends up having back end performance problems (idtech 5- Void) and automatically blame the old engine for problems even if that's not the case.
Destiny 2 is using a new engine for all intent and purpose, a renderer is just a part of the engine it's not the ONLY part. We know that the biggest issue with the old engine was the content creator which is why they have this new engine now for faster content creation and deployment. Just because it's built on top of older engine does not make it "restrictive". Your darling Frostbite engine goes back to Frostbite 1 days as well same for CryEngine that goes back to CE2. It's always an iterative development and again, the renderer is only part of an engine and they've updated it as well. It's pure nonsense to claim there are no upgrades when I can clearly see Bokeh DoF, GPU particles, materials, proper PBR and lighting upgrades compared to Destiny 1.
Resolution only affects GPU for the most part. Using reconstruction from a lower resolution won't magically up your framerate if your game is CPU bound. Going to 60 puts additional load on CPU as is but if your game is already heavy on the CPU then there's no chance for that to happen. And reconstruction only provides roughly around 30% performance boost over native.
A 30 FPS video.. ugh.
But will the game be fun this time? And have a story?
Someone correct me if wrong but don't pc - xbox cross play title such as Gears 4 happily play together at different frame rates or are they both locked at 60fps?
Assuming the PC version of cross play titles isn't locked to the same as console then surely the argument that PS4/Pro/XB1/Scorpio have to be locked to the same fps isn't valid... just thinking out loud..
You may be right. However, if were are talking about reason why game A is not 60fps, and game B is on the same hardware, and considering they are fairly similar in scope (or even less then some that offer better frames), then what could the reasons be?
Gears 4 is 60 fps in MP on both platforms. Not sure I know of a cross play title where that isn't the case.
I think things are pretty clear. It's a choice. The game runs at a locked 30FPS on consoles, most likely because they are CPU bound (Jaguar is still a POS), and possibly also because of parity 'agreements'. Sure, they could run it unlocked, but then it might fluctuate between 30 to who knows, 50. I personally hoped that Bungie put some effort in some kind of dynamic resolution scaling to get things to 60 FPS, but i'd rather have them improve on their content iteration pipeline. Also, devs -rarely- make brand new engines. They might slap new numbers on them, but some of the modern engines still have code inside it that might be over a decade old. In case of Bungie's Tiger engine; it's pretty modular and it still has Blam (Halo) stuff in it.
A 30 FPS video.. ugh.
Sorry but there's no reason why this game can't be 60fps on pro.
Watch the ign video. Luke Smith explains why it can't be 60 (weak cpu in consoles). Don't expect 60 on Scorpio either (similar cpu).
Very disappointing.
It would've probably been my next big shooter I put hundreds of hours in, but at 30FPS I'll take a closer at the competition this year.
If Battlefront 2 looks promising regarding its content I'll go with that one.
I'm not arguing that it's their choice because that is the engine they use (I like what I'm seeing). I'm arguing whether using a different engine or not would help the game achieve 60frames with the same visual fidelity they have now (again, considering there are similar games in scope that do achieve 60frames on the same hardware).
Gears 4 is 60 fps in MP on both platforms. Not sure I know of a cross play title where that isn't the case.
Only way I can see that happening is if they redesigned the game from the ground up if they would use a 'different engine'. The engine is just a part of the whole chain. The benefits of using your home-build technology is that you have total control. If they would have used something like Unreal, they might lose some of the typical Bungie-gameplay, and/or would run into other limiting factors that might not work with their vision of the game. (and to be honest. there are very few games 'similar in scope', actually).
Some fun reading:
Destiny's 'shared world' networking: http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1022247/Shared-World-Shooter-Destiny-s
Engine postmortem: http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1022106/Lessons-from-the-Core-Engine
My point though was we could've gotten a 60fps Destiny 2. In what form is another discussion.
There is not such a as thing 60 fps on both platforms
on PC there are more then people who play those games below 60 fps
I can understand PS4Pro but i am shock Scorpio will get held back too. Sucks for the console gamers I guess
Oh, I totally agree with that. I at least hope that console gets some FoV settings and such, and hoped they would push for 60fps (even if that might be Crucible only, because for competitive PvP it really changes a lot). But then I thought about the 600+ hours I spend playing Destiny 1 and having fun for most of the time; I can live with a shinier 30fps Destiny 2 for the next few years.
There is not such a as thing 60 fps on both platforms
on PC there are more then people who play those games below 60 fps
I'm pretty sure PC isn't locked to 60fps in MP.
You don't need a 1080 to play most games at 60fps, though...I believe that when people think about PC players, they assume everyone has a 1080.
I habe played against console players in gears od war miltiplayer where I am running at 120hz and they are at 60.Someone correct me if wrong but don't pc - xbox cross play title such as Gears 4 happily play together at different frame rates or are they both locked at 60fps?
Assuming the PC version of cross play titles isn't locked to the same as console then surely the argument that PS4/Pro/XB1/Scorpio have to be locked to the same fps isn't valid... just thinking out loud..
There is no competition though... I don't see how BF2 can compete (different features and such).
Someone correct me if wrong but don't pc - xbox cross play title such as Gears 4 happily play together at different frame rates or are they both locked at 60fps?
Assuming the PC version of cross play titles isn't locked to the same as console then surely the argument that PS4/Pro/XB1/Scorpio have to be locked to the same fps isn't valid... just thinking out loud..
It may, it may not. They said they'd give a date in the coming weeks so until they actually give a date it's kinda up in the air.So we sure this is getting delayed on pc now?
It may, it may not. They said they'd give a date in the coming weeks so until they actually give a date it's kinda up in the air.
And higher.Fair enough, did not know that.
The games I've played using crossplay seem to generally be 60 fps on consoles. Perhaps with a view to being at least comparable to some of the higher frame rates possible on PC.
I hadn't considered the lower framerates also possible.
Would be nice if they delayed it on pc and include 1 & 2 as a package
Shhhh now, don't say anything. Just dreams...
Including Scorpio?
I bet it gets freesync and 60fps.
You just pointed out to them using an aging engine, and that somehow has nothing to do with being able/not being able to achieve 60 with all bells and whistles? And you call my post bullshit?
There are many games out there that offer better visual quality and 60 frames while showing more stuff on screen than Destiny. So it's either Bungie are incompetent, or their engine is holding them back. It's one of the two, and nothing with priorities. Their engine is the major problem.
Sure.I bet so as well, but they won't heavily advertise it due to the marketing deal with Sony. All this is good, but I still have a grudge about the abandoned loot from Destiny 1.
Hey Bungie, since we can't carry are loot over, how about allowing us as a one time deal to transfer the value of the loot that to Destiny 2? I think that's a fair trade off.
10 year life cycle with forward character progression my butt...
Wtf? Is mulltiplayer going to be 30FPS again? What a disappointment. I'll pass if that's the case..
If Destiny is capped at 30fps on Scorpio (seems like it will be) then this will give people a good idea of what to expect from a lot of multi-platform titles because two things will hold Scorpio back from full potential. 1 - All games are designed for Xbox One (no exclusives) and 2 - The 2.3GHz Jaguar CPU.
Anyone expecting games that run at 30fps on PS4 Pro, to run at 60fps on Scorpio will be very disappointed (yes that includes Red Dead 2) the CPU difference is just not big enough.
"Too many on screen enemies and players at once" "CPU power is too weak"That needs to be in OP, or maybe a new thread.
Is it locked at 30 on the consoles?
It is. It is 30 on the consoles. But like I said, I think the mouse and keyboard switch really was far more impactful than going to a higher framerate. And it does play at 60 but the framerate is uncapped. It's at 60 on the floor, I think, because I believe that's what g-sync is doing with it—and we think g-sync is fantastic tech, we're working with Nvidia. But if you want to play at 144 [fps] and your rig will handle it, it'll do that just fine.
Will you require a really super, hot rig to play Destiny 2?
No, no, no. So, we're not announcing a min spec or recommended spec today. We'll talk about that in the future. But no, you absolutely won't have to buy the latest and greatest hardware to be able to play the game and have a fun, quality experience.
Do you have a sense of the kind of card you would need to run, say, 1080 at 60 frames? What kind of just ballpark rig do you think you'd be looking at?
Because we're still in development, there are things constantly adjusting and tweaking and we're figuring things out, so I feel like I would be giving you an answer that is not a great answer. I'd rather wait a little while. Maybe ask us again at E3 and maybe we'll be ready to talk about that in-depth.
Is it still peer-to-peer in terms of the multiplayer? Are there dedicated servers?
It is a complicated typology. We do not have dedicated servers for Destiny 2 on PC.
Because one of the issues with Destiny 1, people complained about the tick rate that was being used, right?
Yep.
That led to a lot of trading and stuff, and that was where they kind of identified that that's where some of the lag was coming from. Is there going to be a different tick rate?
I would say that, today, we don't have a good answer for that, meaning we're not talking about the server side of things at this time. I can tell you that we have had conversations and we're aware of—we try really hard to listen to the community and hear what their concerns are, and we try to take those and turn those into the plans.
Will there be any kind of, like, for people who are on console now but want to move to PC, is there any way they can move their characters over?
We've heard about that a lot. We definitely have gotten strong feedback that people are interested in that. At this time, we don't have anything to announce. We think it's super interesting, we totally get it, but we don't have anything really to say about that topic today.
But it's something on the table? Is it at least under discussion? Because it's the difference between ”we've heard about it and ruled it out" and ”we've heard about it and we're still thinking about it".
I mean, we're thinking about—this is a marathon, not a sprint, right? We've already got a pretty sizable history with Destiny and we expect a long one in the future, so I would say there are lots of things we would say, today, we're not doing, but that are on the table. This is something, certainly, I personally think about quite a lot.
I would love a persistent account. Because I don't want to leave all my other friends behind! But I want to play on PC.
I understand. I'm with you.
well done, miller.skippins
I bet so as well, but they won't heavily advertise it due to the marketing deal with Sony. All this is good, but I still have a grudge about the abandoned loot from Destiny 1.
Hey Bungie, since we can't carry are loot over, how about allowing us as a one time deal to transfer the value of the loot that to Destiny 2? I think that's a fair trade off.
10 year life cycle with forward character progression my butt...
Watch the ign video. Luke Smith explains why it can't be 60 (weak cpu in consoles). Don't expect 60 on Scorpio either (similar cpu).
Here's a link to the video at the point where they discuss this: https://youtu.be/wFPgCzIjTEc?t=1h13m14s
Did anyone bring up the fact this game is native 4k on PS4 Pro? Could that be a reason why they're intentionally holding back the framerate on everything else?