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[Allandor]

No Problem with that move. basically you can scale on everything.
- 60 vs 30 fps
- resolution (obviously)
- less pyhsically correct
- less NPCs
- less viewdistance

After all Witcher 3 works on the switch ^^, I would never have predicted that.

And by the way, the current games need years to make, so 2 years is almost nothing. Therefore you have a bigger audience that might buy those games.
And I really expect cross-buy. Buy it for xbox one and it works on xbox series x, too (with all visual updates). 3rd Party-studios might do the same thing or deliver 2 different versions. But at least the xbox one version should work via backwards compatibility on the series x console.

After all, the xbox one still has 6.5 cpu cores for the game and on pc games must work with much less cores (2-4).
And again if witcher 3 works with this really really slow switch 3-core cpu, than this shouldn't be a big problem for the next 2 years.

 

[SNG32]

It's not a big deal for me I'll just continue to use my xbox one and once they drop support I'll get a series X at a cheaper price.

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

Once Sony's world class studios show what next gen exclusives look and play like in the first and 2nd year, the position of all the Xbox defenders will change. It's easy to say nothing's gimped when we havent seen Horizon 2 or SSM's title.

It's preposterous to claim the Xbox titles won't be gimped compared to exclusives on PS5. To argue it won't matter is a different thing entirely, but they'll be compromised for sure.

 

[TBiddy]

It's a good thing, definitely. It's "easy" enough for developers to scale a game to multiple platforms, especially if you have two teams working on separate versions. But I suppose "Sonys world class studios" (as someone in a totally-non-fanboy-way put it) aren't able to handle that.. or aren't allowed to.

There's a lot of gamers out there, who aren't going to shell out 500$ in the first year, and they will appreciate being able to play the few exclusives that will release the first year. They can play Halo and a gimped version of Forza Motorsport designed for the XB1, most likely, while the XSX owners will enjoy a full next-gen experience in Halo and play FM8 in glorious 4k60 with raytracing and all the bells and whistles we expect from next-gen.

It's that simple, really.

 

[JLB]

You cant be serious. The difference between the Switch and the 1.3Tflop XB1 is orders of magnitude smaller than between the 1.3Flop XB1 and 12Tflop Xbox series X.

Fanboying aside the Series X is gonna be gimped, no two ways about it.

Switch vs Xbox One gap is probably much bigger than Xbox One vs Series X. Let alone the fact that Switch is super constrained due to power consumption.

 

[dark10x]

Switch vs Xbox One gap is probably much bigger than Xbox One vs Series X. Let alone the fact that Switch is super constrained due to power consumption.

How are you quantifying that? What makes you say that the gap between Switch and Xbox One is larger?

 

[Allandor]

Once Sony's world class studios show what next gen exclusives look and play like in the first and 2nd year, the position of all the Xbox defenders will change. It's easy to say nothing's gimped when we havent seen Horizon 2 or SSM's title.

It's preposterous to claim the Xbox titles won't be gimped compared to exclusives on PS5. To argue it won't matter is a different thing entirely, but they'll be compromised for sure.

Almost nothing really changed gameplay-wise in the last years. Last really big gameplay-changes came with the PS2 gen. Why should something like this come now?

In the DF video they mention something like flying not possible because of streaming. This might be correct with the als those visuals, but if you design a game around that, you are able to get it working (just not with those visuals) on last gen hardware.
Current gen had much much more CPU power than PS360 gen. But almost nothing changed in gameplay. Yes, there are much more open-world games ... but welll ... there is the Switch ...

 

[wolffy71]

Most of these big games take so long to develop that they were probably initially designed to be on this generation. A lot of next gen games will take a year or two anyway so this isn't likely to make much of a difference, if it even ever will.

 

[Clear]

It's a good thing, definitely. It's "easy" enough for developers to scale a game to multiple platforms, especially if you have two teams working on separate versions. But I suppose "Sonys world class studios" (as someone in a totally-non-fanboy-way put it) aren't able to handle that.. or aren't allowed to.

There's a lot of gamers out there, who aren't going to shell out 500$ in the first year, and they will appreciate being able to play the few exclusives that will release the first year. They can play Halo and a gimped version of Forza Motorsport designed for the XB1, most likely, while the XSX owners will enjoy a full next-gen experience in Halo and play FM8 in glorious 4k60 with raytracing and all the bells and whistles we expect from next-gen.

It's that simple, really.

The problem is that mid-gen refreshes don't sell at anything close to the same rate as full generational switches do. I mean, objectively speaking why is Scarlett going to sell any better than One X did? And this being the case how are they going to erode Sony's massive lead in marketshare?

Not to put to fine a point on it, how is an expensive new sku with no unique experiences supposed to outsell a competitor which offers all the same advantages to its pre-existing (and much larger) user-base, PLUS new experiences that can only be had on it?

Add to which that competitor (Sony) has also not presented a new SKU to its audience for longer, and is thus likely to see a much greater relative performance uptick.

 

[01011001]

Once Sony's world class studios show what next gen exclusives look and play like in the first and 2nd year, the position of all the Xbox defenders will change. It's easy to say nothing's gimped when we havent seen Horizon 2 or SSM's title.

It's preposterous to claim the Xbox titles won't be gimped compared to exclusives on PS5. To argue it won't matter is a different thing entirely, but they'll be compromised for sure.

lol yeah sure... Ubisoft: Zero Dawn 2 will show us what next gen is, I BET THEY WILL HAVE FLYING UBISOFT TOWERS THIS TIME!... the fuck are u talking about?
when did a Sony studio game ever push the boundaries of new tech when it was still new? Breath of the Wild has a more dynamic and open world than Zero Dawn, on tablet hardware

 

[Neofire]

Once Sony's world class studios show what next gen exclusives look and play like in the first and 2nd year, the position of all the Xbox defenders will change. It's easy to say nothing's gimped when we havent seen Horizon 2 or SSM's title.

It's preposterous to claim the Xbox titles won't be gimped compared to exclusives on PS5. To argue it won't matter is a different thing entirely, but they'll be compromised for sure.

I wholeheartedly agree wth this statement.

We shall see at years end.

 

[Nikana]

Most of these big games take so long to develop that they were probably initially designed to be on this generation. A lot of next gen games will take a year or two anyway so this isn't likely to make much of a difference, if it even ever will.

I think there is some truth to this but when it comes to first party they tend to get dev kits earlier and have more time etc. So I think the argument could go either wya on if they are being taken advantage of fully first couple of years.

 

[ethomaz]

It's a good thing, definitely. It's "easy" enough for developers to scale a game to multiple platforms, especially if you have two teams working on separate versions. But I suppose "Sonys world class studios" (as someone in a totally-non-fanboy-way put it) aren't able to handle that.. or aren't allowed to.

There's a lot of gamers out there, who aren't going to shell out 500$ in the first year, and they will appreciate being able to play the few exclusives that will release the first year. They can play Halo and a gimped version of Forza Motorsport designed for the XB1, most likely, while the XSX owners will enjoy a full next-gen experience in Halo and play FM8 in glorious 4k60 with raytracing and all the bells and whistles we expect from next-gen.

It's that simple, really.

If it was “easy” enough devs should not be mad about having Lockhart...

 

[01011001]

If it was “easy” enough devs should not be mad about having Lockhart...

that depends on what Lockhart is. if it has 100% the same hardware aside from the weaker GPU then it wouldn't be much of an issue.
if they also reduce RAM and with it bandwidth it will be was more of a hassle. also we are talking third party devs here, and they want to make games as fast as possible, and a third console to develop for will slow things down for them no matter what.

 

[JLB]

How are you quantifying that? What makes you say that the gap between Switch and Xbox One is larger?

Well, definitely theres a bit of speculation on my side, since Series X specs are unknown. But my guess is that a mobile device, due to power constraints that applies on undocked mode, should have a serious impact on overall performance. Of course I could be wrong.

 

[Omega Supreme Holopsicon]

No Problem with that move. basically you can scale on everything.
- 60 vs 30 fps
- resolution (obviously)
- less pyhsically correct
- less NPCs
- less viewdistance

Also ssd and raytracing core gameplay relevant uses would have to be abandoned.

. But almost nothing changed in gameplay. Yes, there are much more open-world games ... but welll ... there is the Switch ...

There is still things that can be added in next gen, like destructible complex open world environments. With the added gpgpu and cpu power far more interactive environments may be possible.

 

[TBiddy]

The problem is that mid-gen refreshes don't sell at anything close to the same rate as full generational switches do. I mean, objectively speaking why is Scarlett going to sell any better than One X did? And this being the case how are they going to erode Sony's massive lead in marketshare?

Not to put to fine a point on it, how is an expensive new sku with no unique experiences supposed to outsell a competitor which offers all the same advantages to its pre-existing (and much larger) user-base, PLUS new experiences that can only be had on it?

Add to which that competitor (Sony) has also not presented a new SKU to its audience for longer, and is thus likely to see a much greater relative performance uptick.

It's a new generation, and there's a massive leap from X1X to XSX in terms of visual fidelity, loading speeds and other yet-to-be-announced features. Microsoft is not going to outsell Sony, I think everyone agrees to that. If Microsoft can sell 50-60 million consoles over the next 6-7 years, I imagine they are happy. Especially if they can get people to sign up to Game Pass.

Of course there will be unique experiences on the XSX. Why do you think there won't be?

Judging from some of the posts here it feels like Microsoft announced that every single game released for the XSX MUST also be released on the XB1, in the exact same form and shape. Are people forgetting that we're talking a very limited time period and that we're only talking 1st party?

 

[ethomaz]

Anybody saying devs can just “scale” to old hardware have no ideia how much time and resources take to do that.



Devs says that about Lockhart holding next-gen development... imagine Xbox One.

 

[ethomaz]

that depends on what Lockhart is. if it has 100% the same hardware aside from the weaker GPU then it wouldn't be much of an issue.
if they also reduce RAM and with it bandwidth it will be was more of a hassle. also we are talking third party devs here, and they want to make games as fast as possible, and a third console to develop for will slow things down for them no matter what.

It was an issue to devs to the point to MS cancel for while the project if you go by DF.

Devs can’t say Lockhart will hold development at the same time that Xbox One not... both hold but Xbox One hold way more.

 

[Omega Supreme Holopsicon]

. Are people forgetting that we're talking a very limited time period and that we're only talking 1st party?

2 years, if I'm not mistaken. That's 30-40+% of next gen time frame. Virtually all third party titles will be available on pc, and might not necessarily showcase the platform's strengths.

 

[TBiddy]

If it was “easy” enough devs should not be mad about having Lockhart...

Let's have that debate when Lockhart is confirmed and we have actual developers going on record complaining. Right now it's rumours which are about as substansial as the 9.2 TF PS5 rumours.

2 years, if I'm not mistaken. That's 30-40+% of next gen time frame. Virtually all third party titles will be available on pc, and might not necessarily showcase the platform's strengths.

Two years from now: "“As our content comes out over the next year, two years, all of our games, sort of like PC, will play up and down that family of devices. "

 

[01011001]

It was an issue to devs to the point to MS to cancel for while the project if you go by DF.

maybe they revamped it? maybe that's why the rumours went around that it's cancelled?
maybe they made it easier to port Series X games to? to where it's comparable to making the 2 modes for Switch games

 

[ethomaz]

Let's have that debate when Lockhart is confirmed and we have actual developers going on record complaining. Right now it's rumours which are about as substansial as the 9.2 TF PS5 rumours.

So DF lied?

maybe they revamped it? maybe that's why the rumours went around that it's cancelled?
maybe they made it easier to port Series X games to? to where it's comparable to making the 2 modes for Switch games

Yeap magically chances happened in few months lol

 

[TBiddy]

So DF lied?

How on earth did you gather that from my post?

 

[01011001]

How on earth did you gather that from my post?

pssst, he's a fanboy, he reaches with every reply... but you didn't hear that from me

Yeap magically chances happened in few months lol

we have absolutely zero details on when lockhard was apparently canceled nor how far it was fleshed out. so we can't know how fast they had to change it if it was what they did.

 

[ethomaz]

How on earth did you gather that from my post?

I posted a video with the DF dude saying devs were complaining about Lockhart about the same issue pointed in this thread and you say it is not valid... let’s discuss in the future when devs complain when the video says devs complained lol

 

[jshackles]

This is good for Bitcoin Xbox

 

[ethomaz]

pssst, he's a fanboy, he reaches with every reply... but you didn't hear that from me

Read his reply lol

Let’s discuss when devs says that but the videos in question says devs said that.

To accept his comment I need to believe the video is a lie.

 

[ethomaz]

we have absolutely zero details on when lockhard was apparently canceled nor how far it was fleshed out. so we can't know how fast they had to change it if it was what they did.

Unbelievable.

The same source says Lockhart was a issue to devs because it holds back the generation but you try to defense that for Xbox One is fine because we don’t know the real Lockhart specs.

Lockhart can be anything it holds development less than Xbox One.

 

[01011001]

Read his reply lol

Let’s discuss when devs says that but the videos in question says devs said that.

To accept his comment I need to believe the video is a lie.

no I don't. these are hearsay rumours. there could be inaccuracies due to misinformation of the people leaking it or due to stuff that got lost in translation. rumours and leaks are always subject to error even if the core of the leak is in essence correct.

you seem to live in a world where noone ever makes a mistake and as soon as one makes a mistake everything else he said is automatically incorrect aswell... that's not how the real world works

 

[ethomaz]

no I don't. these are hearsay rumours. there could be inaccuracies due to misinformation of the people leaking it or due to stuff that got lost in translation. rumours and leaks are always subject to error even if the core of the leak is in essence correct.

you seem to live in a world where noone ever makes a mistake and as soon as one makes a mistake everything else he said is automatically incorrect aswell... that's not how the real world works

Translation?

The DF dude is English native.

You will basically deny the same site that posted the thread article because it doesn’t fit your agenda?

Now I know your stance.

 

[TBiddy]

I posted a video with the DF dude saying devs were complaining about Lockhart about the same issue pointed in this thread and you say it is not valid... let’s discuss in the future when devs complain when the video says devs complained lol

As I wrote above. Let's have that debate, when Lockhart is actually a thing. Right now it only exists in rumours. We have no idea what Lockhart is, and we have no developers going on record saying they are unhappy. Because why should they? If Lockhart exists, the devs are under strict NDA's, so everything you think you know is based on rumours and guesses.

There's nothing substantial to debate here. At all.

 

[01011001]

Translation?

The DF dude is English native.

I am not sure if you play stupid now or are just arguing in bad faith.

bit I'll spell it out for you: LOST ON TRANSLATION IS NOT TO BE TAKEN LITERALLY
it could be tho. the developers who leak stuff are not necessarily native English speakers but leak stuff to an English speaker... that could result in translation issues.

but what I was trying to say is that a guy talking to another guy talking to yet another guy can muddy the original information and therefore slightly or massively misinform the last person in the chain

 

[ethomaz]

As I wrote above. Let's have that debate, when Lockhart is actually a thing. Right now it only exists in rumours. We have no idea what Lockhart is, and we have no developers going on record saying they are unhappy. Because why should they? If Lockhart exists, the devs are under strict NDA's, so everything you think you know is based on rumours and guesses.

There's nothing substantial to debate here. At all.

It doesn’t matter if Lockhart happens..

Devs said it to DF that MS were testing it and due the bad feedback about holding next-gen development MS choose to to cancel it.

How can Lockhart hold next-gen development and Xbox One not?

The other option is just say that the DF claim is a lie like I asked before.

 

[TBiddy]

It doesn’t matter if Lockhart happens..

Devs said it to DF that MS were testing it and due the bad feedback MS choose to to cancel it.

How can Lockhart hold next-gen development and Xbox One not?

I'd like to refer to my previous post:

"Let's have that debate when Lockhart is confirmed (to exist) and we have actual developers going on record complaining. Right now it's rumours which are about as substansial as the 9.2 TF PS5 rumours. "

 

[wolffy71]

On the other hand, why would they pick out Lockhart to complain about gimping their game if they are gimping it already for the Xb1?

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

Well, definitely theres a bit of speculation on my side, since Series X specs are unknown. But my guess is that a mobile device, due to power constraints that applies on undocked mode, should have a serious impact on overall performance. Of course I could be wrong.

They're not unknown. 12tflops more or less confirmed.

So you're saying 1.3tflops to 12tflops is a smaller gap than 1.3tflops to 1tflop

 

[ethomaz]

I'd like to refer to my previous post:

"Let's have that debate when Lockhart is confirmed (to exist) and we have actual developers going on record complaining. Right now it's rumours which are about as substansial as the 9.2 TF PS5 rumours. "

So why discuss DF articles at all?

Even when in the same subject you choose what article is valid or not from the same source lol

 

[onQ123]

Yes it's a good thing for MS & customers of Xbox .


This make perfect sense for Microsoft but they should also focus on getting PC gamers to buy their games from them as Xbox games that will play on either platform & future platforms.

 

[01011001]

It doesn’t matter if Lockhart happens..

Devs said it to DF that MS were testing it and due the bad feedback about holding next-gen development MS choose to to cancel it.

How can Lockhart hold next-gen development and Xbox One not?

lets take this apart shall we?

first of all: these are third party devs we are talking about. those 3rdmparty devs don't need to support the One

second of all: Lockhart would hold the Series X back FOR UP TO 10 YEARS if that's how long it will be supported.
this Xbox One support thing for 12 to 24 months after launch can't even be remotely compared to that, and noone who reflects on the situation neutrally and objectively would argue this way

not a single PS5 game will actually push the hardware in any meaningful way the first 2 years. that was the case on PS4 aswell, all Sony games that came out on PS4 within the first 2 years could be made on PS3. I'm not talking about graphical fidelity I'm talking about gamedesign choices... hell even now you could argue that...
I can't think of a game made by sony that would not be possible on PS3 in terms of its gameplay... nothing they released was something we never saw before.

so why should it be the case now? what we will see is games that load faster and look better, and that will be the case for almost every game. we might see some games that actually push the boundaries 2 or 3 years in... maybe

 

[DaMonsta]

It doesn’t matter if Lockhart happens..

Devs said it to DF that MS were testing it and due the bad feedback about holding next-gen development MS choose to to cancel it.

How can Lockhart hold next-gen development and Xbox One not?

The other option is just say that the DF claim is a lie like I asked before.

thats not what they said, that’s you spinning what they said to fit your scenario.

What they said is that they brung up the idea to devs who speculatively were not thrilled, so DF themselves speculated that maybe that’s why they are not hearing about Lockhart anymore from Microsoft.
It’s all speculative second hand stuff, that really means nothing at this point.

 

[TBiddy]

On the other hand, why would they pick out Lockhart to complain about gimping their game if they are gimping it already for the Xb1?

No 3rd party developers are required to release their games on XB1. I suspect many will still target PS4 and XB1 though, at least for the first year of the next generation.

So why discuss DF articles at all?

Even when in the same subject you choose what article is valid or not from the same source lol

The thread is about 1st party games being released on all XB1 devices, which is something that has been confirmed from Microsoft.

You want to discuss something that only exists as a rumour. Something which has next to nothing to do with this thread. I'd suggest you create a new thread to discuss if Lockhart will gimp next-gen, if you want to chat about that.

 

[ethomaz]

On the other hand, why would they pick out Lockhart to complain about gimping their game if they are gimping it already for the Xb1?

The support to Xbox One is only mandatory to 1st party studios.
3rd-party devs are free to choose what they want and they complained about Lockhart option.

 

[GymWolf]

I am pretty sure the amount of AI on screen is identical across all versions, or at least across every console version... I might remember this wrong

how do you know it isn't?

On pc you can set how many npc on screen you want, from low to extreme, i don't really think that console version is tuned on the extreme setting with that weak ass cpu.

Even gta5 has more noc on screen in the pc version, probably the same will happen woth cyberpunk.

 

[ethomaz]

The thread is about 1st party games being held or not by development on Xbox One, which is something that has been confirmed from Microsoft.

You want to discuss something that only exists as a rumour. Something which has next to nothing to do with this thread. I'd suggest you create a new thread to discuss if Lockhart will gimp next-gen, if you want to chat about that.

Fixed for you.
The same autor of that article is the one that confirmed that devs were mad about Lockhart.

 

[ethomaz]

On pc you can set how many npc on screen you want, from low to extreme, i don't really think that console version is tuned on the extreme setting with that weak ass cpu.

Even gta5 has more noc on screen in the pc version, probably the same will happen woth cyberpunk.

The Witcher devs said in a interview the PC version have substantial more NPC than the console versions.

 

[ethomaz]

thats not what they said, that’s you spinning what they said to fit your scenario.

What they said is that they brung up the idea to devs who speculatively were not thrilled, so DF themselves speculated that maybe that’s why they are not hearing about Lockhart anymore from Microsoft.
It’s all speculative second hand stuff, that really means nothing at this point.

Yeap the cancelled part is speculation even today... nobody knows if it is canceled or not.

The talk between DF and devs about they being mad about the ideia is accurate.
He clearly says he confirmed with devs.

 

[GymWolf]

The Witcher devs said in a interview the PC version have substantial more NPC than the console versions.

Why are you telling me this, i know that pc version has more npc on screen, mayne i wasn't clear enough in my post

 

[TBiddy]

Fixed for you.
The same autor of that article is the one that confirmed that devs were mad about Lockhart.

Last post from me about this. I'm honestly not sure how to put it any other way:

This thread is not about Lockhart. It's about XB1 and how 1st party games will be affected by being released on the old consoles for a year, give or take.

If you wish to discuss Lockhart and how that affects games in the next generation, I'm sure there's someone else willing to discuss this. I have no wish to debate how a hypothetical console with hypothetical specifications might hypothetically hold back any games in the next 5-7 years.

 

[ethomaz]

Last post. I'm not sure how to put it any other way:

This thread is not about Lockhart. It's about XB1 and how 1st party games will be affected by being released on the old consoles for a year, give or take.

If you wish to discuss Lockhart and how that affects games in the next generation, I'm sure there's someone else willing to discuss this. I have no wish to debate how a hypothetical console with hypothetical specifications might hypothetically hold back any games in the next 5-7 years.

Devs saying Lockhart will hold the next-generation games development is exactly the same subject of the OP.
Just change Lockhart with Xbox One.

Or do you believe Lockhardt can hold the development of next-generation games but Xbox One not?

Why are you telling me this, i know that pc version has more npc on screen, mayne i wasn't clear enough in my post

I was just agreeing with you giving more proof because he already tried to fight me saying it is identical, the AI is the same, etc etc etc lol