• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

[Digital Foundry] COD Black Ops Cold War: PS5 vs Xbox Series X - Ray Tracing, 120Hz Mode Tests + Series S Analysis!

assurdum

Banned
What's funny is that people are willing to consider that COD performance issues on PS5 could simply be due to bugs (which all things aside, is very much likely the case), yet only a few days ago in the DiRT 5 thread many of the same people willing to excuse Cold War performance issues as a bug on the dev's end WRT PS5, were giddy as all hell trying to pin the DiRT 5 performance issues on Series X as related to "hardware bottlenecks", or "PS5 secret sauce" (where "secret sauce" and customizations are used interchangeably).

:pie_thinking: Funny how that works. It's almost like the willingness to not jump to the worst-case when it deals with one platform, is completely thrown out of the window when it comes to the other platform. And yet some here still expect real, genuine discussions and debate to take place? :LOL: :pie_roffles: :LOL:
Didn't series X uses lower graphic setting in 120 fps where he has the lead in perfomance? Isn't it the 60 FPS mode with some performance slowdown and lower resolution and AF? How can be a just a bug and not a precise choice of Codemasters? Now I'm not saying it's impossible improve the things on series X but hit to mid 40 FPS with COD on ps5 compared to gradual lower performance/resolution in Dirt5 on series X (now the LOD issue it's a total different matter, clearly) it's a quite different. The more annoying stuff is whether VGtech doesn't reported this problem of COD on PS 5, do you think DF would have cared to report or check again? At least when series X has any problem, there is DF ready to contact the developers to fix it.
 
Last edited:

Bogroll

Likes moldy games
When the GPU (APU) overheats, PS5 will notify that it's too hot and will shut itself off. This isn't proof of GPU overheating. Why are you making stuff up?
I said could be. Arnt I allowed to speculate like everybody else on here. And I did not not make up those clips and those clips of the flickering relate to gpu problems of some sort. I could have told you that in the 90's from PC gaming, its nothing new.
 
My post went over your head, clearly.

But carry on with that... second part of your reply.

Look--if you were trying for sarcasm/snark and I missed it, I sincerely apologize. I'm just getting tired of all the fanboi s*** around here and automatically assumed the worst.

As for Sony and the PS5s, this stuff is what is staying my hand on picking one up currently--when I see Sony ups the fan speed to help mitigate the cooling issues reported, then I'll probably pick one up. Have zero problems with fan noise--I play with headsets, and I have this wonderful thing called a volume adjuster. :)
 

ethomaz

Banned
What do you mean removed, it is still there.
Clicked in your link and it goes to twitter unavailable.

BTW the game doesn’t have RT in Series S... John explained it was faked or normal shadow mistook as RT in the videos that people sent to him.
 
Last edited:

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
Look--if you were trying for sarcasm/snark and I missed it, I sincerely apologize. I'm just getting tired of all the fanboi s*** around here and automatically assumed the worst.

As for Sony and the PS5s, this stuff is what is staying my hand on picking one up currently--when I see Sony ups the fan speed to help mitigate the cooling issues reported, then I'll probably pick one up. Have zero problems with fan noise--I play with headsets, and I have this wonderful thing called a volume adjuster. :)

It was sarcasm, because the most extreme fans like to signal boost each other's issues. It's not indicative of a widespread problem because you have a handful of tweets repeating the same issues from the same handful of people in the vast sea of millions of units.

I would not be shocked that after the dust settles, the issues are only impacting the normal 1-5% margin of error for both companies.

Sony did say they can tune the fans per game via the firmware as more and more results come back. I am sure MS can do the same. I am still going with, this is not a widespread problem outside of fanatical signal boosting.
 
Last edited:

Evilms

Banned



9QSJX4d.jpg
 

ethomaz

Banned
Just a little bug

That looks like memory leak
It means something is not being cleaned in the memory in runtime code and a restart forces to clean up and back to norm.

Actual Web Browsers on Windows has a lot of these memory leak bugs... if you keep them opened with tabs for too longer they will end up using all your RAM and make the system very very slow for make the Windows use the virtual memory (more perceptible in HDDs).
 
Last edited:

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
A testament to not rush something out with so many "absolutes" in chosen language used. Gonna be a long gen for comparisons if some can't shake their preconceived lens of subjectivity based on paper tigers.

Going to quote myself, because dang nabbit, seeing all these anomalies and bugs pop up across all versions, and now seeing DF walk back (well mainly D dark10x , kudos) on Twitter that it all seems to be bug related and not performance issues, pass it along to Tom to test more, less preconceived assumptions in your commentary of "absolutes."

"It's probably a bug," was strangely absent until the community helped them out, yet they were all in on Dirt 5 tools and bugs right off the rip.
 
Last edited:

JonkyDonk

Member
So I guess reports of XSX 'pulling away' from PS5 were greatly exaggerated to say the least. The game is just a buggy mess on all platforms it seems and needs a lot of patches. I did have a feeling that the 40% performance difference that the initial DF video showed seemed very severe and not in keeping with any spec expectations, and this explains it now.
 
Because the PS5 random frame drops on COD looks like a bug. Sometimes, the console just doesn't drop any frame in those same scenes. That's a bug.

Dirt 5 had different graphics settings on Xbox: lower geometry, lower shadows, missing textures, lower tessellation, etc. That's not a bug. That's graphical settings. it's not like sometimes Xbox was showing lower graphics presets and then higher graphic presets randomly.

The devs can obviously patch in the higher graphics settings, but it will obviously have an effect on frame rates. Unless Dirt 5 on XSX was running at 140-150 FPS, the performance will take a hit if and when it uses higher graphical settings.

It's your assumption the framerate will take a hit at higher graphical settings, but you don't actually have a means of proving that, do you? The presence of the lower graphical settings was a bug in itself, or a settings mistake if you want to be more partial. That's what one of the DiRT 5 devs told John on Twitter when the results were brought to their attention.

Whether the framerate takes a hit at higher graphical settings depends on optimizations more than anything, even the PS5 settings are not very high in relation to the higher PC settings for that very same game.

Repeatable vs random is scientific, your better than that.

You're better than ignoring commonly expressed devkit tardiness/optimization rumors around MS that have been persistent for about a year (and therefore newness to 3P devs WRT the GDK API tools) in lieu of pegging the repeatable performance results in certain games down to inferior hardware design on MS's part.

You're better than that.

That doesn't mean much, it has to work within the game engine of Valhalla itself. It is a repeatable event, - the drops happen always. You really seem to struggle with the concept of repeatable VS random.

I'm not saying that XSX version Valhalla can't be fixed though.

I don't care about the semantics of repeatable vs. random, because that's not at the heart of my discussion. My main point was pretty clear in the first post I made in this thread, it's only a page back.

But to recap, and just brushing up on what you specify: just because you can ascertain a set of conditions that cause a bug to manifest itself, doesn't change the nature of the problem as a bug. Which is what the flame thing in Valhalla on Series X comes off as. That or a poorly optimized block of code, but the two probably go hand-in-hand.

At least you are willing to acknowledge it's something that can be patched; a lot of other people in that thread (similar to what they're doing in the DiRT 5 thread) pretend like patches suddenly don't exist and no patches can be done; according to them the results must 100% be down to hardware deficiencies or poor engineering.

Maybe you can try explaining to them how bug patches work.
Didn't series X uses lower graphic setting in 120 fps where he has the lead in perfomance? Isn't it the 60 FPS mode with some performance slowdown and lower resolution and AF? How can be a just a bug and not a precise choice of Codemasters? Now I'm not saying it's impossible improve the things on series X but hit to mid 40 FPS with COD on ps5 compared to gradual lower performance/resolution in Dirt5 on series X (now the LOD issue it's a total different matter, clearly) it's a quite different. The more annoying stuff is whether VGtech doesn't reported this problem of COD on PS 5, do you think DF would have cared to report or check again? At least when series X has any problem, there is DF ready to contact the developers to fix it.

Even if it was Codemaster's choice that doesn't tell us much of anything regarding the hardware itself. They probably wanted a 120 FPS mode there (heck, it could've been at MS's request to have it ready) and took the path of least resistance WRT optimizations to get the game in what they considered a presentable state to provide the 120 FPS.

Considering that even though they might have had some GDK devkits for a decent bit and find them suitable for what they are doing, that doesn't mean they have mastered the API features and tools of the devkits. It also doesn't mean they're up on the latest GDK revisions, or have the full suite of updated revisions.

Also stop trying to turn this into an attack on DF; what's done is done. They didn't know the framerate issue might've been a checkpoint load bug, someone else did and let them know. Now they know and got further clarification on a few other things regarding the game. None of these analysis channels are God or omniscient; all of them make a couple of oversights here and there, that's the nature of being human.

It's a good thing then that several of them seem to share findings and details with each other, it's almost like they're a community who just enjoy doing what they do and don't have a problem with sharing results among peers if it means more accurate results can be had to the benefit of everyone. Now if only some gamers could try taking that type of mentality when it comes to multiple platform holders :pie_thinking: .....
 
Last edited:

assurdum

Banned
It's your assumption the framerate will take a hit at higher graphical settings, but you don't actually have a means of proving that, do you? The presence of the lower graphical settings was a bug in itself, or a settings mistake if you want to be more partial. That's what one of the DiRT 5 devs told John on Twitter when the results were brought to their attention.

Whether the framerate takes a hit at higher graphical settings depends on optimizations more than anything, even the PS5 settings are not very high in relation to the higher PC settings for that very same game.



You're better than ignoring commonly expressed devkit tardiness/optimization rumors around MS that have been persistent for about a year (and therefore newness to 3P devs WRT the GDK API tools) in lieu of pegging the repeatable performance results in certain games down to inferior hardware design on MS's part.

You're better than that.
How can be his presumption? Series X version has lower resolution, AF and lower perfomance compared the ps5 at 60 FPS. You think 120 FPS will runs the same with higher graphic setting fixed?
 

ethomaz

Banned
I missed the article yesterday.
They updated it today too.


“Series S does allow you to download an 11GB RT pack, but there is no option in-game to enable it - though we've asked Activision for clarification.”

“Regardless, the standard 60Hz experience runs at a dynamic 4K, hitting the resolution and performance target, with an 1800p-2160p DRS window when ray tracing is enabled. Cold War can also scale horizontally too, as well as on both axes, depending on the load. There may be variations 'in the moment' in pixel counts, but if so, we couldn't find any substantial evidence here - practically, Series X and PS5 present in the same way.”

“Frame-rates are rock solid for most of the duration whether you run with RT or without (our advice: definitely use it) though we did find one area on PS5 that can drop to 45fps, while Series X remains rock solid. Curiously, restarting to the checkpoint can see PS5 leap back to 60fps sometimes too - so this is likely a minor bug that needs resolving. It's a moot point really though as this solitary drop in performance happens in a non-playable part of the game so it has no real importance to the way Cold War plays. As for Xbox Series S, it's also using dynamic resolution with its non-RT presentation, topping out at 1440p but with a lower bounds of around 1200p.”

“Both Series X and PS5 deliver a grea 120 frames per second experience, with no issues at all during the multiplayer mode and only minimal slowdown in the campaign - but curiously for this 120Hz mode, PS5 maintains a closer lock to the target frame-rate than Series X. However, thanks to its support for variable refresh rate displays, Xbox Series X is capable of smoothing out performance in troublesome areas where (currently, at least), PS5 cannot. VRR really is a boon both for 60Hz and 120Hz modes, and we really hope that Sony's 'future update' for the system is one that comes sooner rather than later.”

“There's even some intriguing use of the Sony DualSense controller, with the adaptive triggers used to simulate the feel of pulling the actual trigger - a feeling that changes according to the weapon used.”
 
Last edited:

assurdum

Banned
It's your assumption the framerate will take a hit at higher graphical settings, but you don't actually have a means of proving that, do you? The presence of the lower graphical settings was a bug in itself, or a settings mistake if you want to be more partial. That's what one of the DiRT 5 devs told John on Twitter when the results were brought to their attention.

Whether the framerate takes a hit at higher graphical settings depends on optimizations more than anything, even the PS5 settings are not very high in relation to the higher PC settings for that very same game.



You're better than ignoring commonly expressed devkit tardiness/optimization rumors around MS that have been persistent for about a year (and therefore newness to 3P devs WRT the GDK API tools) in lieu of pegging the repeatable performance results in certain games down to inferior hardware design on MS's part.

You're better than that.



I don't care about the semantics of repeatable vs. random, because that's not at the heart of my discussion. My main point was pretty clear in the first post I made in this thread, it's only a page back.

But to recap, and just brushing up on what you specify: just because you can ascertain a set of conditions that cause a bug to manifest itself, doesn't change the nature of the problem as a bug. Which is what the flame thing in Valhalla on Series X comes off as. That or a poorly optimized block of code, but the two probably go hand-in-hand.

At least you are willing to acknowledge it's something that can be patched; a lot of other people in that thread (similar to what they're doing in the DiRT 5 thread) pretend like patches suddenly don't exist and no patches can be done; according to them the results must 100% be down to hardware deficiencies or poor engineering.

Maybe you can try explaining to them how bug patches work.


Even if it was Codemaster's choice that doesn't tell us much of anything regarding the hardware itself. They probably wanted a 120 FPS mode there (heck, it could've been at MS's request to have it ready) and took the path of least resistance WRT optimizations to get the game in what they considered a presentable state to provide the 120 FPS.

Considering that even though they might have had some GDK devkits for a decent bit and find them suitable for what they are doing, that doesn't mean they have mastered the API features and tools of the devkits. It also doesn't mean they're up on the latest GDK revisions, or have the full suite of updated revisions.

Also stop trying to turn this into an attack on DF; what's done is done. They didn't know the framerate issue might've been a checkpoint load bug, someone else did and let them know. Now they know and got further clarification on a few other things regarding the game. None of these analysis channels are God or omniscient; all of them make a couple of oversights here and there, that's the nature of being human.

It's a good thing then that several of them seem to share findings and details with each other, it's almost like they're a community who just enjoy doing what they do and don't have a problem with sharing results among peers if it means more accurate results can be had to the benefit of everyone. Now if only some gamers could try taking that type of mentality when it comes to multiple platform holders :pie_thinking: .....
It's not attack DF say they are more superficial when a playstation platform has problematic performance. Seems more a critic. Such things never happen when the Xbox is to the other side.
 
Last edited:

LivingD3AD

Member
I missed the article yesterday.
They updated it today too.


“Series S does allow you to download an 11GB RT pack, but there is no option in-game to enable it - though we've asked Activision for clarification.”

“Regardless, the standard 60Hz experience runs at a dynamic 4K, hitting the resolution and performance target, with an 1800p-2160p DRS window when ray tracing is enabled. Cold War can also scale horizontally too, as well as on both axes, depending on the load. There may be variations 'in the moment' in pixel counts, but if so, we couldn't find any substantial evidence here - practically, Series X and PS5 present in the same way.”

“Frame-rates are rock solid for most of the duration whether you run with RT or without (our advice: definitely use it) though we did find one area on PS5 that can drop to 45fps, while Series X remains rock solid. Curiously, restarting to the checkpoint can see PS5 leap back to 60fps sometimes too - so this is likely a minor bug that needs resolving. It's a moot point really though as this solitary drop in performance happens in a non-playable part of the game so it has no real importance to the way Cold War plays. As for Xbox Series S, it's also using dynamic resolution with its non-RT presentation, topping out at 1440p but with a lower bounds of around 1200p.”

“Both Series X and PS5 deliver a grea 120 frames per second experience, with no issues at all during the multiplayer mode and only minimal slowdown in the campaign - but curiously for this 120Hz mode, PS5 maintains a closer lock to the target frame-rate than Series X. However, thanks to its support for variable refresh rate displays, Xbox Series X is capable of smoothing out performance in troublesome areas where (currently, at least), PS5 cannot. VRR really is a boon both for 60Hz and 120Hz modes, and we really hope that Sony's 'future update' for the system is one that comes sooner rather than later.”

“There's even some intriguing use of the Sony DualSense controller, with the adaptive triggers used to simulate the feel of pulling the actual trigger - a feeling that changes according to the weapon used.”
Damage control at it’s finest! Less than 1% of gamers have VRR capable TVs. They can’t just admit PS5 is a better experience!
 

ethomaz

Banned
Damage control at it’s finest! Less than 1% of gamers have VRR capable TVs. They can’t just admit PS5 is a better experience!
That is fine... they need to say because it really make the experience better for these 1%.

But that is momentarily... VRR is probably to stop on PS5 way before people start to buy 120Hz TVs massively.
 
Damage control at it’s finest! Less than 1% of gamers have VRR capable TVs. They can’t just admit PS5 is a better experience!
Well, that's not a problem because that's actually true. On the other hand, this is a bigger problem in their article:

but curiously for this 120Hz mode, PS5 maintains a closer lock to the target frame-rate than Series X

Why should it be curious? Because it doesn't go along with a PR marketing campaign? I find it curious actually that they find it curious particularly after all those statements from various journalists about the real power divide between the machines. Like if they had an opinion already forged on the matter whatever the reality. Very curious.
 

jose4gg

Member
:) So VGtech was right (once again) and the bug wasn't there previously, they might run the test a couple of times and detected that sometimes it appears other times don't.


Let's see if they patch it and if they can patch series X 120fps, to have a winner or a gentlemen'ss tie.

However, for the 9tf sometimes 8.4TF machine, this is excellent results. /s
 
Last edited:
:) So VGtech was right (once again) and the bug wasn't there previously, they might run the test a couple of times and detected that sometimes it appears other times don't.


Let's see if they patch it and if they can patch series X 120fps, to have a winner or a gentlemen'ss tie.

However, for the 9tf sometimes 8.4TF machine, this is excellent results. /s

Still can't believe we had some really dumb 5TF to rumors based off fake dev profiles. I honestly never expected the PS5 to do this well.
 

assurdum

Banned

Anyway there are other part in gameplay with the same issue, not just this cutscene, DF showed it. It happens in another point, when a building collapse and we try to escape. Identical drops in performance. That's really bizzarre.
 
Last edited:

assurdum

Banned
Just got the superior Series X version 😎 plus 1 sale for the developer that took advantage of the 2 TF, those who do will be rewarded by a sale.

but what a large download ... gonna be trying it tomorrow! I well Dirt 5 it is tonight.
I don't think the performance advantage on series X are relative to the more power. It seems more an I/O bottlenecks of the engine on ps5. It remind me a lot Control on console and the game with the apocalypse horseman, I don't remember the title, it's the third chapter. They have exactly similar hit on FPS.
 
Last edited:

Md Ray

Member
Anyway there are other part in gameplay with the same issue, not just this cutscene, DF showed it. It happens in another point, when a building collapse and we try to escape. Identical drops in performance. That's really bizzarre.
That section also likely runs at flat 60fps after checkpoint restart, I think.
 

skneogaf

Member
I bet all the launch games will be massively improved after a few patches on all consoles.

I'm so glad I'm playing through backlog games as I'm playing games that are complete.

Cyberpunk 2077 is going to need loads of patches I bet.
 

S0ULZB0URNE

Member
Well if you want to be an idiot, you could make the retarded analysis that the PS5 version runs 20fps slower, but you know.... that would make you an idiot. It’s your choice though.
Idiots make posts like yours that make no sense.

MP,especially cross play enabled MP PS5 has up to a 20fps advantage no matter how we spin it.
 

Self

Member
just because you can ascertain a set of conditions that cause a bug to manifest itself, doesn't change the nature of the problem as a bug

In that way you can classify every technical flaw as a bug, that's not the nature and definition of a bug. Hence my reluctance to your reasoning.

Which is what the flame thing in Valhalla on Series X comes off as. That or a poorly optimized block of code, but the two probably go hand-in-hand.

Very probably a mismatch between the current state of the Xbox framework and the unity engine.
DMC and COD proves the framework to be adequate enough, but lacking in other departments (Valhalla/Dirt 5).

At least you are willing to acknowledge it's something that can be patched; a lot of other people in that thread (similar to what they're doing in the DiRT 5 thread) pretend like patches suddenly don't exist and no patches can be done; according to them the results must 100% be down to hardware deficiencies or poor engineering.

It may be hardware deficiencies, but it's very, very unlikely. PS5 and XSX are way to similar in their architecture. At this point one can safely assume it's just FUD.
 

sircaw

Banned
That moment the 50+ year old that acts like a 12 year old console warrior tries calling out others.

Shut the fuck up already. No one gives a fuck about your protected status around here.

And no one cares about you SatansReverence SatansReverence and the trash that your spread for months on end with your fud mates, How do those chickens feel, now that they have come home to roost.

A troll and fud spreader that finally got put in his place.

I am glad i caught this post before it was deleted.
 

SatansReverence

Hipster Princess
And no one cares about you SatansReverence SatansReverence and the trash that your spread for months on end with your fud mates, How do those chickens feel, now that they have come home to roost.

A troll and fud spreader that finally got put in his place.

I am glad i caught this post before it was deleted.

Its amazing that Sony shills like you are magically protected around here and can post your bullshit for months on end with zero repercussions.

Hows that upto 40% performance gains in cold war chickens taste?

But but but that one scene in the helicopter that gets the same drops on both consoles but I can screen grab that one moment where there is nothing happening on PS5 vs combat on the XSX that shows better performance!!!
 
Top Bottom