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[i-Lo]

I dont want a surprise,
I dont want a reinvention,
I just want my same old Devil May cry,
If this game has the FEEL of Devil may cry, so be it, but i would be glad if the final cut-scene in this game shows us that the Dante that we know suddenly wakes up and realizes that the whole Dmc game is a nightmare.

And.. this makes me wonder why some people buy same regurgitated sequels year after year and later wondering why the industry is so stagnant sometimes.

 

[Stinkdog]

For the record, I doubt this game is going to be any good as well.

However, I can't say I really blame Capcom for wanting to change up the series.

We have enough copycats and stagnant franchises in this industry already what with all of the Call of Duties and Battlefields and Assassin's Creeds and Sports Game 20XXs permeating every square inch of the market these days.

 

[Retro_]

Wow.....damn.... go play the other games then...this idea is very scary to me, ill take change over same old any day

That's what I play all the other games that I do for.

but when I play franchise sequels I kind of expect them to be similar, because that's the point of a sequel. To develop ideas and mechanics through iteration.

When you "reinvent" them like this with a new development team abandoning all the experience gained from making the past games, it just seems like you're attaching a new game to a recognized brand for visibility.

and I'm not one to buy things on brand name alone, so at the moment I have no interest in this.

 

[Teknoman]

And.. this makes me wonder why some people buy same regurgitated sequels year after year and later wondering why the industry is so stagnant sometimes.

You dont want to make games in the same series be THAT different though.

 

[Kyoufu]

Wow.....damn.... go play the other games then...this idea is very scary to me, ill take change over same old any day

...not this kind of change

 

[Seraphinianus]

Japanese can't concieve an Emo drugaddict?

 

[WorstUsernameEver]

Of all the things I've seen of DmC, the bad Dante redesign is hardly the worst. I know this has been said ad nauseam, but it's worth repeating: the gameplay doesn't look like it's going to deliver and that's the meat of the franchise. I could forgive them for making a Devil May Cry game with bad aesthetics but good gameplay, but it seems that the art direction (minus the Dante redesign) will be one of the very few salvageable things in this game. Hope I'll be proven wrong.

 

[Teknoman]

Of all the things I've seen of DmC, the bad Dante redesign is hardly the worst. I know this has been said ad nauseam, but it's worth repeating: the gameplay doesn't look like it's going to deliver and that's the meat of the franchise. I could forgive them for making a Devil May Cry game with bad aesthetics but good gameplay, but it seems that the art direction (minus the Dante redesign) will be one of the very few salvageable things in this game. Hope I'll be proven wrong.

Thats what i'm complaining about, the way the gameplay looks/framerate.

Now while its very possible it could be a surpriser like SH: Downpour or Binary Domain, that remains to be seen.

 

[AAK]

From the gameplay videos I can definitely tell I'd enjoy the combat of this game despite 30 fps. I really like the angelic and demonic forms of the weapons. BUT, damn did they make the character design atrocious. I'd be open to a Dante redesign... but this specific one is repulsive and is probably the main reason I'm opting to play other games instead of this one.

 

[Skilletor]

Wow.....damn.... go play the other games then...this idea is very scary to me, ill take change over same old any day

When I want something different from Devil May Cry, I go play something that isn't Devil May Cry.

 

[Retro_]

And.. this makes me wonder why some people buy same regurgitated sequels year after year and later wondering why the industry is so stagnant sometimes.

This argument seems a tad bit misplaced in defending a new developer making a new game under an established brand for visibility.

 

[Discotheque]

I actually don't even mind Dante's new look. It's just the abysmal gameplay that will accompany it that's got me worried.

 

[Rahxephon91]

Not any worse, though, and Devil may Cry has needed something to freshen things up.

Not like this.

 

[Suairyu]

Another thread where posters mis-label the new Dante as "emo"? Fantastic! Next he'll be called a hipster.

 

[twobear]

I'm kind of cautiously optimistic about this

 

[Valnen]

I actually don't even mind Dante's new look. It's just the abysmal gameplay that will accompany it that's got me worried.

PC version will fix the FPS issue (hopefully) but we'll see if the game itself is designed to be fun at all even at 60 FPS. I have doubts.

They ruined Dante. I can get over this if the gameplay is good, but that alone is just unforgivable and means I won't be buying this game new. DMC did not need a reboot. Just another game with Vergil.

 

[Patryn]

Vaguely curious: Has any of Ninja Theory's games ever sold well?

 

[SolidSnakex]

Vaguely curious: Has any of Ninja Theory's games ever sold well?

Depends on your definition of "sold well". Heavenly Sword is their best seller and that sold a little over a million.

 

[ezekial45]

I'm wondering if any of you actually bothered to read the whole interview. It was very insightful and it definitely made me more confident on them delivering. Here are some portions of the interview that are most interesting.

This one's for you, Hayeya.

- Responding to a fan complaint - "DMC DOESN'T NEED A FUCKING REBOOT." (exact words)

"Nothing needs a reboot unless that reboot works. Look at Batman. The parallel to the Batman reboot was Catwoman. Nobody needed that, but when it works it can change the course of a franchise in a positive way. It can make it survive. The decision as to whether DMC needed a reboot or not; it's irrelevant what my opinion is because that decision was Capcom's. They felt it needed something which is why they not only decided to take a bold step and reinvent it, but to give it to a non-Japanese dev. They had their reasons and that was our mandate. They wanted a reinvention - a reinterpretation - that's what we went ahead and did.

- PSM3 question - "Much of the argument (about the series needing a reboot) surely rests on whether or not DMC4 was a dead end. Was it?"

"There was a feeling from some of the guys at Capcom that it could continue the way it was, but that there were certain tropes that were being - I don't know how to put this...I think when you compare it to where a lot of games have arrived at - Western games in particular, where levels feel more open and the world feels more grounded - it felt like DMC was a little stuck in its ways. It needed to be let loose. That's what we were told as part of our mandate to reinvent it.

- Regarding skepticism about NT's abilities to achieving solid technical performance:

"I think that comes from Heavenly Sword not hitting 30FPS at times. Then we moved on to Unreal and pushed out Enslaved in half the time of Heavenly Sword, if not less. And that one had the some framerate issues we regret; we should have held on and refused to give the build to the publisher until we hit that framerate. On this game, we've got a commitment from all around that we've got to hit it. And we've made sure the game runs at a solid state at all times through development. So I don't think that will be an issue. The people who have been testing the game have said it's very responsive, and these are people who know DMC."

More fan criticism - "They won't have a chance of selling five million units!"

"Usually the worst creative crimes are made when you're trying to make a game for someone else - some perceived demographic that, in all likelihood, doesn't actually exist. From my point of view there's only on way to try and make a successful game, and that's to make the game you want to play. A game that everyone involved is proud of. So from that point of view I don't care if it sells a thousand unites or two million units. I believe the time you spend making something had to be worthwhile. You've got 20 productive years of work in your life; if you're gonna spend ten or 15 percent of it on something, make it worthwhile.

- On comparisons to Bayonetta

"We never set out to beat Bayonetta in combat. We're aiming to make this the best DMC in the series. We want out combat to be better than the rest, because we take pride in our work. When Itsuno-San from Capcom and his crew come out, we spend days going over the combat system and things they've added to previous entries you won't find in guides on GameFAQs. But in terms of feel, we're aiming to make this like a movie. Something with rules that make sense; that has characters that feel real, that you emphasize with. For that reason, we're not looking at Bayonetta.

- On the philosophy of DMC, and proving NT can do it

"DMC is a hardcore game, that's where it should stay. Itsuno-San said the general philosophy of DMC is that the more you give it, the more you get out of it. In DMC the philosophy is to constantly give you harder modes of play, more depth and experience, and more chances to excel. That doesn't mean you should exclude everyone else. And I think it should have a hardcore story. Every game we've done so far has been Teen-rated, and this one's not. I get frustrated that, despite there being blood and violence in gaming, the stories all so often very safe. Your average novel or play has the prerogative to push boundaries and break ground in some fashion. So that's what I'd love to do with DMC.

- Short feature in the article about Dante's reinvention.

This new Dante is really the latest in a long line of Ninja Theory prototypes which, at first, were much closer to Capcom's original. "It worked across three territories: us in the UK, Capcom Japan, and Capcom America," explains Antoniades. "Our original concepts were very close to the original DMC, taking mixtures of the previous four games and creating a new interpretation, but very much in that space. And Capcom said something which they've said to us often, which is, 'If it was going to be the same as the old DMC, why would we give this project to you guys? The reason is to surprise us, to come up with a reinvention, To create something we couldn't have conceived in Japan.

"At one point we were asked to forget about the design of the character and just come up with images about Dante at key moments in his life, from childhood to adulthood. So we've got 100 images of this character at different ages, in different situations, different emotional states. One of the best was of him ripping open this big wound in his chest in front of the mirror, seeing his heart beating and realising he's not human. We did all these really prescient images to define the character, then looped back round to: 'Okay. Now he's cool. Now we know why he doesn't give a shit. We know his history. What does he look like?' "It's a way of designing a character we've never done. And that's when Capcom Japan and American were finally happy with it."

It's a great read. I just hope they get around to showing it off soon. Though I'd imagine Captivate might be the next time we'll see it.

 

[CorvoSol]

That's what I play all the other games that I do for.

but when I play franchise sequels I kind of expect them to be similar, because that's the point of a sequel. To develop ideas and mechanics through iteration.

When you "reinvent" them like this with a new development team abandoning all the experience gained from making the past games, it just seems like you're attaching a new game to a recognized brand for visibility.

and I'm not one to buy things on brand name alone, so at the moment I have no interest in this.

This is very well said. This should be a standard response to people demanding a reinvented Zelda.

 

[ezekial45]

When you have time, Gamebaron, you can post the quotes in the OP.

 

[Raonak]

Ugh. Should've been a new ip, or a spinoff.

 

[Snaku]

"Nothing needs a reboot unless that reboot works. Look at Batman."

Yes, look at Batman.

Look hard, Mr. Tameem. Are you telling me that doesn't need a reboot? Because if you are, you're a bit nuttier than squirrel shit.

 

[ezekial45]

Yes, look at Batman.

http://i.imgur.com/JRfCs.jpg

Look hard, Mr. Tameem. Are you telling me that doesn't need a reboot? Because if you are, you're a bit nuttier than squirrel shit.[/QUOTE]

You got the exact opposite of what he was saying. He was in the favor of the Batman reboot.

 

[Snaku]

You got the exact opposite of what he was saying. He was in the favor of the Batman reboot.

He postulated that the Batman reboot wasn't needed unless it was successful. So if Batman Begins had been a steaming pile, it wouldn't have been necessary? Every minute of Batman & Robin's running time says otherwise.

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

Tameen antoniades is not Christopher Nolan. Nolan had established himself in his industry critically and commercially way before he imagined how to reinvent the battaang.

Try again.

How many reboots of established series have been given to undeperforming directors and have excelled far beyond the original titles?


Don't worry, I'll wait.

 

[IC_Champion]

When you have time, Gamebaron, you can post the quotes in the OP.

Thanks. I was waiting for this. doing it now.

 

[ezekial45]

He postulated that the Batman reboot wasn't needed unless it was successful. So if Batman Begins had been a steaming pile, it wouldn't have been necessary? Every minute of Batman & Robin's running time says otherwise.

I think you're taking it a bit too literally.

The point he was trying to make was that if a reboot was going to be done, it has to be done right. He brought up Batman because that is pretty much to the quintessential franchise reboot. Which was done right. They didn't release a Batman movie for almost 8 years till they knew they got it right. He wasn't defending Batman and Robin, he was just saying that if you couldn't do it right, and be successful with it (quality wise), then it's not worth doing.

EDIT: Just curious, did you guys just stop reading at the batman comparison? Did it bother you that much that he's making a parallel with something great?

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

I think you're taking it a bit too literally.

The point he was trying to make was that if a reboot was going to be done, it has to be done right. He brought up Batman because that is pretty much to the quintessential franchise reboot. Which was done right. They didn't release a Batman movie for almost 8 years till they knew they got it right. He wasn't defending Batman and Robin, he was just saying that if you couldn't do it right, and be successful with it (quality wise), then it's not worth doing.

Dmc4 was released in 2008. It was not the lowest point the series and had been a critical and commercial success compared the running joke of batman and robin.

The point and your justification still makes no sense.

edit: I read everything you have posted ezekial, but this is the main point you are arguing and it is flawed for a multitude of reasons. You cannot make a direct analogy between filmmaking and games design and even if you could, the people behind batman begins are more respected commercially and critically than the people behind enslaved, not to mention the complete different set of circumstances even if making eqvilent products.


Its tameem blowing hot air as per usual. The proof will be in the pudding. Don't name drop great films to try and convince me your going to make a great VIDEO GAME

 

[Setero]

Here are some portions of the interview that are most interesting.

You forgot the part about tits and prostitutes

 

[Elginer]

I'm wondering if any of you actually bothered to read the whole interview. It was very insightful and it definitely made me more confident on them delivering. Here are some portions of the interview that are most interesting.

This one's for you, Hayeya.

- Responding to a fan complaint - "DMC DOESN'T NEED A FUCKING REBOOT." (exact words)


- PSM3 question - "Much of the argument (about the series needing a reboot) surely rests on whether or not DMC4 was a dead end. Was it?"


- Regarding skepticism about NT's abilities to achieving solid technical performance:


More fan criticism - "They won't have a chance of selling five million units!"


- On comparisons to Bayonetta


- On the philosophy of DMC, and proving NT can do it


- Short feature in the article about Dante's reinvention.


It's a great read. I just hope they get around to showing it off soon. Though I'd imagine Captivate might be the next time we'll see it.

All of this sounds great. I'm really not buying a lot of day1 titles this year but DmC is making that list. I love a developer being crazy enough to try something new and honestly, to me it sounds fresh and I've enjoyed past NT titles. I really hope they nail it!

 

[ezekial45]

Dmc4 was released in 2008. It was not the lowest point the series and had been a critical and commercial success compared the running joke of batman and robin.

The point and your justification still makes no sense.

This is getting ridiculous. He wasn't saying that Batman and Robin was on the same level as DMC4. Capcom felt the series was stalling out, much like the Batman series that Antoniades mentioned. Which led to the reboot. That was the comparison.

You're reaching here. He's not taking any jabs at the series.

 

[Elginer]

Not for nothing but it seems Tameem can't win no matter what he says. Even if he's being respectful and just talking people are going to condemn the hell out of him. Rarely have I seen such a hardon to slam the guy at every turn. Yes, he has misspoken at times but I still feel his heart in the right place. But whatever...
His team are doing the best they can to produce a great game and only time will tell how it goes but I like what I've seen and heard.

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

This is getting ridiculous. He wasn't saying that Batman and Robin was on the same level as DMC4. Capcom felt the series was stalling out, much like the Batman series that Antoniades mentioned. Which led to the reboot. That was the comparison.

You're reaching here. He's not taking any jabs at the series.

I think your the one that's reaching. I never said he was taking any jabs. However, after batman and robin, it was clear to everyone that something had to be done because the series had become more a running joke (the whole nipple thing springs to mind) with DMC4 people weren't tired of the series, they were disappointed in THAT ONE GAME BECAUSE IT WAS RUSHED

A DMC5 that had the same care an attention as DMC3 would have sold just as well as 4.

This is not the same as a possible sequel to batman and robin that would have been so camp it would of reached pantiomime levels

 

[ezekial45]

I think your the one that's reaching. I never said he was taking any jabs. However, after batman and robin, it was clear to everyone that something had to be done because the series had become more a running joke (the whole nipple thing springs to mind) with DMC4 people weren't tired of the series, they were disappointed in THAT ONE GAME BECAUSE IT WAS RUSHED

A DMC5 that had the same care an attention as DMC3 would have sold just as well as 4.

This is not the same as a possible sequel to batman and robin that would have been so camp it would of reached pantiomime levels

You didn't say it, but it's implied from your posts. You're clearly bugged by the comparison he made.

And for the record, they were going to make a direct sequel to Batman and Robin, called Batman Triumphant; which was darker and more tied to comics. Not that that matters, cause the comparison was about rebooting a stalled franchise. And like Antoniadas said, Capcom felt it was stalled out after DMC4. So they probably didn't take doing DMC5 too seriously.

 

[sleepykyo]

It was very insightful and it definitely made me more confident on them delivering.

When weren't you confident?

 

[ezekial45]

When weren't you confident?

When the first trailer came out. I was right here with you guys complaining about it.

 

[IC_Champion]

For a studio that prides itself for making outstanding visuals, I thought that NT should have taken that year to learn how to use MT Framework (read that in the article), that way, the tech would make wonders for the designers and people would not have to mock Tameem and team for the fps.

 

[Verelios]

Not getting it day 1. May not get it bargain bin price.

Which is sad, because I'm getting the DMC collection Day 1, and with that, this will be the first DMC I have not bought immediately.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

When the first trailer came out. I was right here with you guys complaining about it.

The very first post you made about DmC was cautiously optimistic, at worst

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=23343805&postcount=779

After that, it's been a year and a half of "let's wait and see guys, maybe this will be good, its too early guys, c'mon guys give it a chance"

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=23344885&highlight=#post23344885

See? Damage control already

 

[TheKaeptain]

We never set out to beat Bayonetta in combat.

He doesn't get it.

 

[ezekial45]

For a studio that prides itself for making outstanding visuals, I thought that NT should have taken that year to learn how to use MT Framework (read that in the article), that way, the tech would make wonders for the designers and people would not have to mock Tameem and team for the fps.

I don't think it would work for the kind of game NT is making here. MT Framework is a great engine, but it doesn't seem to hold up well when tons of things are going on at once (LP and RE6, being good examples). The only games that run at 60FPS are MVC3 and DMC4. DMC4 scaled back the environmental detail to get the focus and fidelity on the combat.

For this game, they clearly want to create a balance. Since it's running at 30FPS, it should be interesting to see what they can pull off.

The very first post you made about DmC was cautiously optimistic, at worst

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=23343805&postcount=779

After that, it's been a year and a half of "let's wait and see guys, maybe this will be good, its too early guys, c'mon guys give it a chance"

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=23344885&highlight=#post23344885

See? Damage control already

No, it isn't. I was still expressing disappointment in the direction they were taking for the series. At the time, I wanted to see DMC5 and was showing disappointment along with all of you that we weren't getting it.

'm quite flattered you bothered to look up my posts, btw.

 

[MuddyDonut]

If he had said all of this from the beginning, I bet we would all have a better attitude about the game, but it's a little late Tameem....just show us.

 

[Satch]

Why, exactly, wouldn't you want to aim to beat Bayonetta in combat? Why would you want to make Devil May Cry like a movie?




...Why is he making games? I don't understand.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

'm quite flattered you bothered to look up my posts, btw.

A whole two minutes, would you believe? You must be so proud to get some kind of attention.

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

You didn't say it, but it's implied from your posts. You're clearly bugged by the comparison he made.

And for the record, they were going to make a direct sequel to Batman and Robin, called Batman Triumphant; which was darker and more tied to comics. Not that that matters, cause the comparison was about rebooting a stalled franchise. And like Antoniadas said, Capcom felt it was stalled out after DMC4. So they probably didn't take doing DMC5 too seriously.

which would be a reboot of the pantomine style of B&R. same as batman begins.

Same effect different means.

and no, I'm not bugged at the batman comparison. I couldn't give a rats ass on what tameen thinks this game is going to be or even the game itself as evidenced as my first post in this thread.

I only comment now out of boredom, I don't give a shit how this game turns out (or even the franchise itself) either way any more. I don't want to be like those classic sonic fans... ill just move on.

Although, i will admit, I do look forward to when the game releases and the exact same things we have saying from day one are the things complained about in the OT. that will make me chuckle at least.

No, it isn't. I was still expressing disappointment in the direction they were taking for the series. At the time, I wanted to see DMC5 and was showing disappointment along with all of you that we weren't getting it.

Unlike Viewtful, i cant be bothered to prove it, but this is bullshit.

you have been one of the chief cheerleaders on at least 3 forums from day one. For the longest time, I actually thought you worked for NT/Capcom.

but if you wanna revise history, whatever floats your boat.

and don't start blah blah "I've beaten each game on dante must die mode" blah blah " after DMC4, formula gettin stale" blah blah "NT" blah blah "breath of fresh air" blah blah again... we know ezekial, we know.

 

[IC_Champion]

I don't think it would work for the kind of game NT is making here. MT Framework is a great engine, but it doesn't seem to hold up well when tons of things are going on at once (LP and RE6, being good examples). The only games that run at 60FPS are MVC3 and DMC4. DMC4 scaled back the environmental detail to get the focus and fidelity on the combat.

For this game, they clearly want to create a balance. Since it's running at 30FPS, it should be interesting to see what they can pull off.

You're right. Thinking about it then, LP 2 did have some screen tearing. Still, I am tired of seeing the UE over-utilized.

I am still reserved about this game. I mean I am one of the few here to say that I'm wrong if this game is any good. Sorry Ezekial45, currently I just can't trust NT, and I abhor Capcpcom for trying to westernize a classic (from the article, NT came close to re-creating the Dante every fan loved, but Capcom told them to make changes). It's like if Disney gives Mickey Mouse to some other animation personnel to make him more hip or more attention.

 

[ezekial45]

Unlike Viewtful, i cant be bothered to prove it, but this is bullshit.

you have been one of the chief cheerleaders on at least 3 forums from day one. For the longest time, I actually thought you worked for NT/Capcom.

but if you wanna revise history, whatever floats your boat.

Yes, I post on other forums (GF, CU, and here). I expressed disappointment for what it is. Just because I didn't say the game was going to be garbage, worthless, etc, without having actually seen the game at the time, (like you guys did) doesn't mean I was their cheerleader or whatever you want to call it.

I'm not revising anything. If I wanted to do that then, I don't know, I'd probably go all the way and re-edit my other past posts and make them more definite.

Look, if you wanna think I'm in the tank for them or doing this for attention, then go right ahead.

 

[Lactose_Intolerant]

refused to give the build to the publisher until we hit that framerate.

lol

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

Yes, I post on other forums (GF, CU, and here). I expressed disappointment for what it is. Just because I didn't say the game was going to be garbage, worthless, etc, without having actually seen the game at the time, (like you guys did) doesn't mean I was their cheerleader or whatever you want to call it.

I'm not revising anything. If I wanted to do that then, I don't know, I'd probably go all the way and re-edit my other past posts and make them more definite.

Look, if you wanna think I'm in the tank for them or doing this for attention, then go right ahead.

Ok. like i said. I really don't care enough to press the issue.

All I will say is this if that is you disappointed, I don't want to see you excited.