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Empire Magazine's Greatest 100 games of all time [Reader Voted]

J

jerry1594

Member
Skyrim is number 11
Fallout 3 is 25 but NV isn't on the list
Call of Juarez???
The Last of Us is #1
Yeah fuck this list
And Heavy Rain is on the list.... lol sony fanboys much??
 
P

pastrami

Member
Punished_Snake said:
Look , I love Shenmue and it's one of my favorites but the game has flaws especially if you play the game now, so why it was rated so high in this list? The game was innovative and brought something new to gaming. according to this list The Last of Us is the best game ever made, how so? The game didn't innovate, didn't bring anything new so what are the qualities of the game?
Click to expand...

I don't think the game did anything particularly unique, if that's what you were trying to get out of me. But can you answer my question on what bearing innovation has on fun factor?

Punished_Snake said:
You talk about stealth being good in TLOU, stealth games with bad A.I are considered bad games. Gunplay? Resident Evil 4 maybe not the first games to implement behind the shoulder camera and good gunplay, but it's the game that made that popular and it has better level design than TLOU. You said the story is filled with cliches and we should accept that because all games share this
Click to expand...

I already answered. The game was fun for the reasons I already stated. You thought the stealth was bad, I thought it was great. I don't know what the point of bringing up RE4 having an OTS camera and good gunplay is. And you think RE4 had better level design, I don't particularly think either had the better design. And I already said that the story was well told and well acted, even with it's share of cliches. Unless you don't watch movies/read books, and only read the synopsis/spoilers, because that's all that matters, right?

Punished_Snake said:
I'm again asking what are the qualities of TLOU?
Click to expand...

I already told you why I find the game fun...you just choose to disbelieve that my reasons could be true. Impossible! No one could think that TLOU has good gunplay. Impossible that anyone could think that the story was good. Impossible that anyone could actually like this game. So why do people like it?

So unless you can respond with anything other than "but why?" I think we're done.

EDIT: Didn't see your edit. The list was voted on by readers. So there's really no criteria. The games their readers liked got voted for.
 
H

Hugstable

Banned
List is missing Mischief Makers and Astro Boy: Omega Factor... well most Treasure games.

Marcel said:
More criminal than TLOU at #1 is Fallout 3 and Skyrim getting billed over New Vegas and Morrowind.
Click to expand...

Seriously. I think it's due to Skyrim being much newer, and many people first played Skyrim but probably haven't played any of the past games in the series besides Oblivion since Morrowind was really only on PC and Xbox. But Morrowind easily beats Skyrim. Same with New Vegas, which I put over 100 hours into, but I could never play more than 10 hours of FO3 after seeing the "sewers dungeons"
 
TheLaughingStock

TheLaughingStock

Member
Durante said:
I don't really see how TLOU is "important" at all. How will the medium evolve differently because of its influence? What innovation did it bring to the table?
.
Click to expand...

Probably agency of female characters, portrayal of women, and nuance in storytelling. I think their key innovation was the aesthetic distance between player and game world/game character.
 
M

Markitron

Is currently staging a hunger strike outside Gearbox HQ while trying to hate them to death
Marcel said:
Because the "you didn't actually play the game you dislike" is weak-ass reasoning. I ultimately disliked Watch Dogs too but people don't do the "you didn't actually play it" garbage when I bring that up.

It's a waste of everyone's time and only makes you look like a fanboy. You like thing, OK. I dislike thing. OK.
Click to expand...

I didn't say that though, I said that the more extreme TLOU haters probably haven't played it and I believe that is true. 'more extreme' being the key phrase
 
T

Toxi

Banned
Siegcram said:
The criterion was "random Empire.com user" so I'm not surprised at the lack of japanese games outside of FF.
Click to expand...
What?

You can blame the Empire voters for many things, but a lack of Japanese games isn't one of them. Out of all these, only three are Final Fantasy.

97. Super Mario Galaxy 2
94. Super Metroid
92. The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
85. Super Smash Bros. Brawl
82. Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots
80. Okami
76. Chrono Trigger
73. Final Fantasy IX
71. Super Mario Galaxy
65. Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty
64. Silent Hill 2
60. Final Fantasy VIII
59. Kingdom Hearts
56. The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker
53. Sonic the Hedgehog
51. Shenmue II
50. The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask
49. Resident Evil 2
45. Final Fantasy X
44. Super Mario Bros.
42. Resident Evil
40. Street Fighter II
39. Mario Kart 64
35. The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past
33. Shadow of the Colossus
29. Pokemon Red/Blue/Yellow
27. Resident Evil 4
26. Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater
24. Super Mario Kart
23. The Legend of Zelda: The Twilight Princess
20. Super Mario World
16. Super Mario 64
13. Dark Souls
7. Shenmue
5. Metal Gear Solid
4. Final Fantasy VII
2. The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time
Click to expand...
 
A

antitrop

Member
TheLaughingStock said:
Probably agency of female characters, portrayal of women, and nuance in storytelling. I think their key innovation was the aesthetic distance between player and game world/game character.
Click to expand...

Durante's favorite game of all-time is Planescape: Torment, so not sure if that one will hold any water with him. :p

But Planescape is a game that is regarded almost exclusively for its narrative, unlike The Last of Us.
 
H

Hypron

Member
Monocle said:
For sure. It's sad those games don't have the audiences they deserve.


TW101 has way too many poorly balanced minigames. It would tie Bayonetta for Platinum's best title if its gameplay weren't so uneven. The combat and presentation are brilliant, the genre switches are not.

Metal Gear Rising is ridiculously underrated, BTW.
Click to expand...

Yeah. Although, IMO, from an objective point of view Vanquish is their best game (it's my second favourite though). It's absolutely great from start to finish and nothing lasts longer than it should (in this aspect it's similar to RE4... No coincidence I guess considering the director). Its only downfall is the scarcity of the post-game content.
 
M

Marcel

Member
Hugstable said:
List is missing Mischief Makers and Astro Boy: Omega Factor... well most Treasure games.



Seriously. I think it's due to Skyrim being much newer, and many people first played Skyrim but probably haven't played any of the past games in the series besides Oblivion since Morrowind was really only on PC and Xbox. But Morrowind easily beats Skyrim. Same with New Vegas, which I put over 100 hours into, but I could never play more than 10 hours of FO3 after seeing the "sewers dungeons"
Click to expand...

One of the best games of all time has artificial progress barriers that force you into the smelly ghoul tunnels that are merely there to fill up disc space and waste your time. I guess people have fond, uh, misconceptions about Fallout 3 rather than actually remembering what was going on.
 
A

antitrop

Member
Hypron said:
Yeah. Although, IMO, from an objective point of view Vanquish is their best game (it's my second favourite though). It's absolutely great from start to finish and nothing lasts longer than it should (in this aspect it's similar to RE4... No coincidence I guess considering the director). Its only downfall is the scarcity of the post-game content.
Click to expand...
Despite being some of my favorite games, I absolutely abhor the cutscenes of Vanquish and Bayonetta.

Metal Gear Rising had fucking awesome cutscenes, though. As silly as defining the concept of a developer's "objective best game" is, if I had to say, it would probably be Bayonetta.
 
S

Siegcram

Member
Toxi said:
What?

You can blame the Empire voters for many things, but a lack of Japanese games isn't one of them. Out of all these, only three are Final Fantasy.
Click to expand...
Sorry I meant to say japanese character-action. And something else about FF. I don't know anymore, I'm tired.

I apologize to all Empire users.
 
U

ukpanik

Banned
Collingwood said:
But still, the best game of ALL time? Come on. As good as TLoU is now, I personally don't see it being a game that ages gracefully and I don't mean visually either.
Click to expand...

By "All Time", you do know they don't mean the future yes?
When TLOU gets old and frail, new lists will be made and it will be replaced with a new #1 people will get angry about.
 
B

Bold One

Member
fluffydelusions said:
This thread will be a fun ride

miaYwKZ.gif
Click to expand...

what sorcery is this?
 
P

Punished_Snake

Member
pastrami said:
I don't think the game did anything particularly unique, if that's what you were trying to get out of me. But can you answer my question on what bearing innovation has on fun factor?


I already answered. The game was fun for the reasons I already stated. You thought the stealth was bad, I thought it was great. I don't know what the point of bringing up RE4 having an OTS camera and good gunplay is. And you think RE4 had better level design, I don't particularly think either had the better design. And I already said that the story was well told and well acted, even with it's share of cliches. Unless you don't watch movies/read books, and only read the synopsis/spoilers, because that's all that matters, right?



I already told you why I find the game fun...you just choose to disbelieve that my reasons could be true. Impossible! No one could think that TLOU has good gunplay. Impossible that anyone could think that the story was good. Impossible that anyone could actually like this game. So why do people like it?

So unless you can respond with anything other than "but why?" I think we're done.

EDIT: Didn't see your edit. The list was voted on by readers. So there's really no criteria. The games their readers liked got voted for.
Click to expand...

regarding innovation and fun factor, I think when a game do something new or innovate and it works, it will raise your enjoyment and it will make the game more enjoyable because you are experiencing something new and you are experimenting. I agree with you that not all games should be innovative to be enjoyable, but better games are that innovate or add something (evolution) , do you agree or not?
 
L

Lothar

Banned
krYlon said:
To reiterate:

1) This is a reader's poll for a UK film magazine. NES was not popular in UK.
Click to expand...

That's no excuse. NES games have been re-released on enough consoles. There's virtual console. Do people in the UK just have no appreciation for gaming history and how revolutionary a game was? Not having the original Zelda on the list when Skyward Sword and Twilight Princess is on it is insane. Same for not having Super Mario Bros 3 or a Castlevania. Same for not having FF4 and FF6.
 
H

Hypron

Member
antitrop said:
Despite being some of my favorite games, I absolutely abhor the cutscenes of Vanquish and Bayonetta.
Click to expand...

Well, both games do have a couple of good cutscenes (those where the characters aren't talking and just kicking ass instead). For example, I really like the cutscene before the dual Bogeys in Vanquish.


antitrop said:
Metal Gear Rising had fucking awesome cutscenes, though. As silly as defining the concept of a developer's "objective best game" is, if I had to say, it would probably be Bayonetta.
Click to expand...

Agree with MGR. The Armstrong cutscene alone is better than everything in Vanquish and Bayonetta.

Fair enough about Bayonetta. The reason I don't believe it's their best is that while it's an awesome game, it's got deep mechanics and lots of content... It does have those "oh no, not this shit again" gameplay sequences that last too long.
 
S

SmokyDave

Member
Lothar said:
That's no excuse. NES games have been re-released on enough consoles. There's virtual console. Do people in the UK just have no appreciation for gaming history and how revolutionary a game was? Not having the original Zelda on the list when Skyward Sword and Twilight Princess is on it is insane. Same for not having Super Mario Bros 3 or a Castlevania. Same for not having FF4 and FF6.
Click to expand...
Yeah, we don't really care. The home computers (C64 / CPC 464 / Spectrum) along with the Master System were all we needed in the 8 bit era.
 
A

antitrop

Member
Hypron said:
Fair enough about Bayonetta. The reason I don't believe it's their best is that while it's an awesome game, it's got deep mechanics and lots of content... It does have those "oh no, not this shit again" gameplay sequences that last too long.
Click to expand...

Well, Vanquish has the worst weapons upgrade system of all-time.
 
P

pastrami

Member
Punished_Snake said:
regarding innovation and fun factor, I think when a game do something new or innovate and it works, it will raise your enjoyment and it will make the game more enjoyable because you are experiencing something new and you are experimenting. I agree with you that not all games should be innovative to be enjoyable, but better games are that innovate or add something (evolution) , do you agree or not?
Click to expand...

I agree that innovation brings about new and fresh ideas that can provide a lot of enjoyment, but that innovation can also be refined. Wolfenstein was one of the first FPS, but I don't think it's one of the best games of all time.
 
K

krYlon

Member
Lothar said:
That's no excuse. NES games have been re-released on enough consoles. There's virtual console. Do people in the UK just have no appreciation for gaming history and how revolutionary a game was? Not having the original Zelda on the list when Skyward Sword and Twilight Princess is on it is insane. Same for not having Super Mario Bros 3 or a Castlevania. Same for not having FF4 and FF6.
Click to expand...

This is Empire, not Retro Gamer magazine. Empire is a film mag that concentrates on hollywood popcorn flicks.

I'm honestly impressed their readers came up with this list. It could have been a LOT worse.
 
Pyccko

Pyccko

Member
Um, excuse me, I believe the #1 spot was reserved for Noby Noby Boy, thank you.
I demand someone make a petition for me to sign calling for whoever made this list to be severely scolded by their mother.

no really how is SMB3 not in the top ten
 
P

Punished_Snake

Member
pastrami said:
I agree that innovation brings about new and fresh ideas that can provide a lot of enjoyment, but that innovation can also be refined. Wolfenstein was one of the first FPS, but I don't think it's one of the best games of all time.
Click to expand...

Of course, the first open world game isn't the best open world game. If we are talking about The Last of Us, the game didn't innovate and didn't add something evolutionary so it's placed in the category where games didn't innovate and didn't add something noticeable, but in the category of we have seen that before but it's fun.

I understand now that there is no criteria and why the list is inconsistent. But I want to ask you: Do you agree with TLOU being the best game ever according to this list?
 
3

3DShovel

Member
Okay, TLOU is great, but it does not dethrone OOT.

OOT changed EVERYTHING. Equivalent to what Super Mario 64 did to platformers.

OOT also still holds up well today. I'm not sure if TLOU will do the same.

Excuse my rage, it just doesn't click in my mind
 
K

kingdoug87

Member
47. Secret of Monkey Island

While it is in my top ten I understand that it wont be many others, so Im happy that it made the top 50.

If this list wasnt in any particular order and just top 100, its a great list.
 
J

JinjoUnchained

Member
Decent list. The write-ups for most games were really well done. There are two major problems, however:

1.) No Genesis/MegaDrive games except Sonic 1 (???). I thought the Genesis library was more popular than that. Surprised to see no Streets of Rage or Golden Axe.
2.) No SMB3!!! (WTF!!???). Was it on the list and I somehow missed it?

My only other issue is the prevalence of lesser games from the last 1-2 generations, just because they are more recent. <COUGH Bioshock Infinite COUGH>. Wii Sports and Mortal Kombat 2 were also surprising omissions.
 
P

pastrami

Member
Punished_Snake said:
Of course, the first open world game isn't the best open world game. If we are talking about The Last of Us, the game didn't innovate and didn't add something evolutionary so it's placed in the category where games didn't innovate and didn't add something noticeable, but in the category of we have seen that before but it's fun.

I understand now that there is no criteria and why the list is inconsistent. But I want to ask you: Do you agree with TLOU being the best game ever according to this list?
Click to expand...

I have no problems with it being the top of the list. I already told you that I don't really rank games personally. And if that's what people voted for as being the best game, then why wouldn't it top the list?
 
P

Punished_Snake

Member
pastrami said:
I have no problems with it being the top of the list. I already told you that I don't really rank games personally. And if that's what people voted for as being the best game, then why wouldn't it top the list?
Click to expand...

OK, I respect your opinion but I don't think it should be placed on the top of the list and I think the list is inconsistent. And finally I still think TLOU is overrated and it will not pass the test of time.
 
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