superdeluxe
Member
That is the biggest issue here isn't? And why we get slaughtered during Mid-terms.
The youth don't come out.
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ExitPoll: 21% of Bernie supporters did not vote for Wisc. Dem Supreme Court Candidate
- Thread starter ivysaur12
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That is the biggest issue here isn't? And why we get slaughtered during Mid-terms.
The youth don't come out.
Fenderputty
Banned
Exactly what the progressive movement needs to get Bernie's plans in place. Republicans and independents who vote for conservative local judges.
Spin harder.
Box of Kittens
Banned
I loved living in Wisconsin. It's a wonderful state. However, after seeing the way that Walker and his cronies in the legislature have consistently set about destroying all the things that make the state great, I'm happy to no longer be living there.
What I've heard from people who are very plugged in to Wisconsin politics is that Walker is unlikely to run for a third term. Basically it's a combination of not really enjoying the job and knowing he could make a lot more money in the private sector, which he kind of needs to do given his substantial personal debts. That having been said, even if he doesn't run that doesn't mean another odious Republican won't replace him, and there's certainly no hope of flipping the legislature until the districts can be redrawn.
Yeah I'd like to see.
Should be illegal to even publish polls without margins of error attached at least.
I guess it's OK on this board to generalize all of Bernie's supporters again as long as you sound SUPER PASSIONATE!!!
How you can take ~80% of his voters voting for the person you wanted in the SC and somehow spin this into "fuck you, bernie supporters" is just farcical.
But you also said, as you just pointed out, in reference to what got you all riled up to post this thread in the first place:
So which is it? Get Fucked, Sanders Supporters? Or Get Fucked, Left Leaning People Who Didn't Vote For Kloppenberg?
So again I want to ask why is the 21% who didn't vote the bigger deal than the 79% who did? Hillary had a larger percentage of course but it still seems like nearly 80% is pretty damn good in my book. I'd love even more people to vote for elections like this, a 100% even but that seems like a long shot considering the numbers of people who vote at all in America. Maybe I'm just interpreting the data incorrectly but this seems just a bit overblown/
User 463088
Banned
Like Hillary does nearly every time she's in a state with down ballot races? Her stump is always tailored to regional candidates and issues. She does the same at town halls and debates.
I even qualified this later, but okay. Keep attacking me instead of the data.
It's pretty likely that no-name downticket races will get ~7% of crossover voters just because. That'll happen from D to R and from R to D. 21% is a significant divergence.
Officerrob
Banned
Bernie is bringing in young/first time voters, he's got to speak on these down ballot races. He's leading a "revolution" that only cares about getting him elected at this point, and that's severely disappointing. Also, his campaign has stated their path to the nomination relies on superdelegates switching to him, but that's never going to happen when he does nothing for other dems trying to get elected.
Unknown Soldier
Member
I'm sure persecuting the Bernie supporters will get them out there for the votes, keep at it guys!
eh Bernie's not a democrat (I know, another thread entirely) and hasn't campaigned down ballot -- is it not fair to point out that a party infrastructure (or, as it's more commonly known, "the establishment"), whether he wants to admit it or not, and political allies on the local level are going to be needed to enact whatever political ideas/revolution he has in mind?
Fantastical
Death Prophet
If you're mad about people not showing up to polls, fair enough. But I don't see really what that has to do with Bernie. That's an issue with youth voting. And if Bernie has supporters that don't vote all D... Okay. I do not think he's influencing people to vote R that wouldn't otherwise.
You vote your best option. EVERY SINGLE TIME.
Not hard people. This is what the GOP got, and how they got the (regressive) change they wanted over the last 40 years.
Basileus777
Member
I think you mean defeating, not losing to.
superdeluxe
Member
These are people that Voted in the primary, 20% couldn't be bothered voting for people on the same ballot.
Thats a problem. If you get a 1/5th of people who can't even be bothered to vote during a GE/Primary, WTF will happen during a mid term?
You are. The exit poll is about people who voted for Bernie and Hillary and who voted for Kloppenburg and Bradley. What is says is 21% of the people who voted for Bernie, either did not vote or voted for Bradley, while 8% who voted for Hillary, either did not vote or voted for Bradley. In other words, it says the people who were voting for Bernie were quite conservative and Bernie's coattails are nonexistent.
I'm pointing out an issue I see with the Bernie campaign in being unable to engage with downballot races. What does this have to do with "persecuting" Bernie supporters?
StopMakingSense
Member
Persecuting? Okay.
Thanks.
superdeluxe
Member
Ehh, they are going to do what they want. If they get so fired up that their vote or lack of vote happens because they can't handle some internet chastising, that is on them.
As a Bernie supporter, I passionately implore any Bernie voters to make sure to vote other Dems who support left-leaning laws and agendas into office, as we'll get more progressive policies that way.
Just because other young voters don't know/don't vote, doesn't mean you shouldn't.
Just because other young voters don't know/don't vote, doesn't mean you shouldn't.
Um, fuck them.
It isn't Hillary Clinton's job to convince you not to vote like a fuckhead in November. It isn't the average poster's job here to make Sanders supporters feel welcome when they say stupid shit about her or about policy they clearly don't understand. It also isn't anyone else's job to apologize for Sanders' supporters being uninformed enough to not be able win at "avoid the bigot" on supreme court elections.
The right to vote is granted at what we all presume to be entry into adulthood. If you can't make rational, pragmatic choices like a real adult you don't deserve to be coddled for being a moron.
deltatheta
Member
We are talking about a minor race in a state election. It looks to me like there's some serious cherry picking going on. I'm sure if you scrutinized the numbers in every state election you could find a factoid that makes Clinton supporters look bad. When you've got tons of data and you zero into tiny subsets you can find any pattern that you want to look for; that's just the nature of statistics. I bet I could find something that makes Clinton supporters look conservative if I searched through the records for every poll and state and local election.
Add to that the fact that the 21% figure in the headline I think is an exaggeration because it includes people who didn't vote in the election. It's lumping together non-voters with people who voted for the conservative in this race, and since Sanders has more of both categories adding them together makes his supporters look worse, but when you think about it, it doesn't really make sense to add them together.
The minor effect that might be illustrated by these numbers seems to me that Sanders enjoys more support among the "fiscally liberal, socially conservative" voter niche, which probably is explained more by the fact that a social conservative would be more swayed by the constant sexist attacks against Clinton, so Bernie gets their vote by default. But again, we're talking about a small subset of Sanders supporters in an apparently cherry-picked race.
Dash_Riprock
Member
Well apparently they're not voting regardless so...
thehypocrite
Member
Maybe.I'm totally okay with this.
That would mean byebye Sanders though.
Good for Hillary & she should be commended by her commitment to her party, & she is by her peers/voters.
However, without taking anything way from her great efforts, it wasn't enough in this case and that's an opportunity for the party to be more and accomplish more through the use of their platform.
Ploid 3.0
Member
I don't mean you in particular. I agree on the judge election, it's crazy that person got the votes again. It looks like a majority of the people who voted for Sanders voted for the same party judge though, and without the Republican votes things would be different so you can't really blame just the 21%. For presidential elections people are usually voting for the first time, and have no clue who the other people are. I was one of them at one time, my mom forced me to vote. Older people vote Clinton, and are more informed, maybe some Republicans wanted to vote for Sanders for some reason.
I have not voted for Sanders, I don't think I have mentioned any feelings. Well maybe I have used the word "feel" though. My feels are mainly entertainment and curiosity in these threads.
Skiptastic
Member
I mean, that's true. But I would think that a primary election would decide who is on a ballot, not be a final judgment. Just surprising is all.
Box of Kittens
Banned
Again, what does it say about the political revolution when one candidate is basically the antithesis of everything Bernie stands for (right wing ideologue, backed by corporate money) and the other candidate was literally endorsed by Bernie himself yet over one in ten of his voters couldn't even be bothered to vote in the race despite it being on the same ballot? How can the left expect him to accomplish anything in the White House if we can't even put in that minimal amount of effort? The right votes in downballot races, surely we can too.
Those "minor races" is where all the important shit happens. Also, a state supreme court seat is not, in any way, a minor seat. It's rather important.
People need to understand that local elections are just as important as federal elections. You see what's going on in North Carolina? All because of how people voted in local elections. These races can fuck up people's lives to an insane degree if the wrong person, or people, get elected to these seats.
Local elections matter, even if you wrongly think they don't.
These elections (and I don't think there should be elections for judges) should happen in high-turnout November elections.
They don't (for reasons Republicans love), so we have to be vigilant about voting.
Suikoguy
I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
If they want to support more left leaning candidates and primaries, that's fine too. The idea is to be involved in ALL races you can vote in.
This is some insane spin.
This is not a "minor race". This is a very very very very important race. Why doesn't the left understand that? Why is the left so inept at understanding that there are other races besides the presidency?
And of course it makes sense to lump these voters together. Bernie wants to usher in a progressive revolution. How can he do that when 1/5 of his own voters won't vote for the left-leaning candidate?
We're not persecuting. We're saying put up or shut up.
Holy fuck no, this is not a minor election at all. Jesus
TheOohChild
Member
Bernie was vocally supportive of Kloppenburg leading up to the election, but these results are pretty fucking shameful. What a gut punch
Well I was a bit wrong on my interpretation of the numbers but I admit this doesn't seem as devastating as people say. Then again I'm just looking at these set of numbers not any other exit polls or anything so I'm not sure if this is a trend or not though I have heard that his supporters don't seem as willing to support democrats and the like if Bernie isn't directly involved. Still I guess I see 80% as pretty good overall but it definitely could be better.
Skiptastic
Member
I agree.
Box of Kittens
Banned
State Supreme Court is not a minor race! This is the problem with the "political revolution" and with the American left in general. We treat everything that's not the presidency as a minor race. Our federal system of government gives enormous power to the states. State Supreme Courts make decisions on voter suppression, labor rights, gerrymandering, etc. They wield enormous power. In this case the victorious Supreme Court candidate basically stands against everything that Bernie Sanders stands for. The defeated candidate even had his endorsement. This is a big deal.
And it absolutely makes sense to add up the people who didn't vote and the ones who voted for Bradley. If anything I'm more upset at the ones who were too lazy to even bother voting in such an important race and yet think they're changing the world.
Do you have evidence that Kloppenburg would have won if Hillary had no challenger?
Democrats are not ones to show up to these kinds of elections, yet Republicans would have been out in full force to cast their Fuck/Hail Donald Trump votes.
It seems to me like Bernie supporters might have made this closer than it would have been otherwise, which would have been a complete shut-out.
Gentleman Jack
Member
I wouldn't call it the biggest issue here in the primary, but it worries me in the general when Hillary is the only person pushing for downticket issues and she fails then because of reasons her campaign managers still can't (or don't care to) figure out after this many elections and after all this time.
California's Prop 8 was on the same ballot that elected Obama, after all.
Sick of seeing this pattern with democrats overall.
NO. It's not minor. There's more to politics than the presidency. This was not a minor race.
This generation has been shouting that they will break that cycle. I sort of roll my eyes and say "Yeah okay". We will see in the midterms, but I'm not expecting much. All this energy and self righteousness will fade after November, I just know it.
thehypocrite
Member
Well, sure, there's plenty of people with different positions, ideas & acceptance levels. If you search my history, you can see I'm not pro-Hillary and I have some disagreements with her positions on several issues, but I'm not blind to the fact that she does a better job and goes out of her way to promote the party across the board, Bernie should look at this and imitate her cause this is how you charm superdelegates, this is also how you get a more acceptable congress that will enact those reforms that you propose and this is how those laws get protected once enacted. My impression is that a majority of her peers do (look at her superD lead), and voters (look at how she's favored among registered D's).
I do commend Clinton on this cause it's the right thing to do, Bernie is wrong on this. but I consider it should be enacted as a requirement for those candidates that want to use the brand & the platform of the party to run for office.
But that has nothing to do with the point at hand. Bernie was in the race, and 1/5 of his supporters did not support Kloppenburg!
What's wrong with saying "hm, yeah, this is bad, we really need to work on this"?
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
lol GAF: Civil War.
This is pretty bad though. Does not look good on Sanders supporters.
This is pretty bad though. Does not look good on Sanders supporters.
That's not the point. The point is that if they couldn't be bothered to vote in a down ballot election in a year with Bernie on the ballot, what makes anyone think they'll be bothered to give a shit if he's not on the ballot? His entire thing about getting shit done and taking back the house is, "I excite people and they'll vote for me and we'll take back the house that way." It's obviously not true, there is no revolution.
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