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Fang and Vanille...is it canon?
- Thread starter Lights and Waves
- Start date
ShockingAlberto
Member
It's about as canon as it can get without them outright saying it.
Earthpainting
Member
If there is anything there, I don't think they did a good job at showing it. I filed Vanille and Fang under womance and never really saw reason to re-evaluate it.
That's what all these shipping discussions are like. Viewing every character they deem attractive through their shipping goggles to enforce a world view where platonic camaraderie is inexistent amongst sexualised objects. It's marginally more understandable with gay pairings however. Hypersensitive gaydars are due to how society treats homosexual attraction and relationships, both in fiction as in real life. Everything gay had to be kept on the down low, so we're subconsciously being trained to look for minor details that can reveal what's up.
BlueBadger
Banned
whyreggielie
Member
No please don't, XIII-2 is the best one even though LR does has the most interesting combat system.
Anyone who thinks Adult/Teenage women behave in such a way towards eachother without some kind of romantic relationship going one between them need to examine real female relationships a lot more. Even if you argue that this is what Anime does to portray close sisterhood, well then you also need to understand that even close female friendships in Anime that are portraying this kind of frendship are actually implying romantic relationships. Anyone who watches a lot of Anime knows that these relationships are meant somewhat as a tease towards the audience and with that said, Fang and Vanille's relationship is nothing like the typical Anime sisterhood thing.
Rats Off To Ya
Banned
It's canon in my heart, and that's all that will ever matter.
Fang is the only lady that i wanna bone in the FF13 games
all the other ladies are either underdeveloped schoolgirls (Vanille, Sara) or black-faced spinster virgins (lightning)..
Fang is the only lady in it that actually seems interesting, no annoying...
So, no. She's heterosexual in my mind.
all the other ladies are either underdeveloped schoolgirls (Vanille, Sara) or black-faced spinster virgins (lightning)..
Fang is the only lady in it that actually seems interesting, no annoying...
So, no. She's heterosexual in my mind.
I'm out of this thread lol, he's an expert about japanese culture!
Basketball
Member
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
It's like Persona 4's Chie and Yukiko.
It seems like there's a LOT of people out there who just can't fathom considering people with very close relationship, be that man/girl or man/man or girl/girl, as something that is NOT romantically involved.
"Oh look, they're close and they say they're willing to protect each other! LOVERS!"
It seems like there's a LOT of people out there who just can't fathom considering people with very close relationship, be that man/girl or man/man or girl/girl, as something that is NOT romantically involved.
"Oh look, they're close and they say they're willing to protect each other! LOVERS!"
zeopower6
Member
She used to be a male character iirc but then they thought things weren't balanced or something.
I never see that issue with Chie and Yukiko. The arguments about P4 are always about Kanji and whether or not he was actually gay or the potential of Yosuke being a closet case. (which according to some stuff that was axed, may have been a love interest for the MC)
Does this count as a shipping discussion though? If it was some pairing pulled out of thin air, maybe, but I feel like they wrote Fang and Vanille as an "official pairing" without actually stating anything about their relationship. It's very rare that there are female relationships like this to begin with in JRPGs I think (aside from.. well.. you know..) though I almost wish we had a definitive answer instead of the ambiguity so that it wouldn't seem like they were just tiptoeing around things.
InfiniDragon
Member
Terra is pretty much asexual in VI, girl is like an earthworm. Didn't stop people from shipping of course.
Dissidia on the other hand threw out subtle shipping bait with her and a few members of the male cast. That conversation she has with Cloud made the shipping rounds for quite a while, lol.
in that case, did the FF15 team just went completely opposite...because FF15 is basically 'One Direction: The Game' now?
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
A lot of people, and I do mean a lot, are considering Chie and Yukiko as a couple.
Also, Kanji is arguable but Yosuke...? Really? Especially since the game actually goes all out in telling how big his infatuation to his Senpai affected his character development. I suppose since the MC hugs Yosuke in his SL that people think he's closeted....???
Eh..., though I suppose this is off-topic.
zeopower6
Member
Well, it's still within the realm of "canon or not" pairings.
Yosuke had some stuff left on the game disc that didn't make it to the actual game. They're from his social link apparently. Oh, they were recorded lines too, so who knows why they took them out to begin with :/
"I like you" / "I never knew I had so much heat I had inside" / "D-don't make me say stuff like that!" / "Don't go..."
And I guess it must be isolated to Persona community talk because I've never seen Chie x Yukiko anywhere. :/ In fact, a lot of the arguments that involve Chie that I hear about every so often here must be isolated to the community thread.
As far as Vanille and Fang go, I feel like there are enough hints that you can come to the conclusion that they're much closer than you'd expect. Unfortunately whenever things are left open like this, there's never an agreement since nothing is ever officially stated. It's a bit frustrating tbh and a little surprising that they've never had it come up in interviews. Or maybe it has and they've always declined to comment.
pikmin_trainer
Neo Member
No.
Unless you consider fan fiction canon, then yes.
Unless you consider fan fiction canon, then yes.
Holy Order Sol
Member
theofficefan99
Junior Member
In my mind, yes, they are a lesbian couple. No, I don't need to see them kissing to confirm this. The way Fang talks about Vanille is pretty damn romantic, not to mention the hand holding and how comfortable Fang is with Vanille. I dunno.
I've had friends who are girls that would sometimes hold hands or kiss on the cheek or cuddle but girls in general are more touchy with each other compared to guys. However, they wouldn't talk about each other like Fang and Vanille did.
In general, discussing if someone is gay or lesbian without proof of seeing them kissing another person of the same sex is a huge discussion that'll lead nowhere. There's a lot of people who are oblivious, a lot of people who just refuse to see it (aka like in The Last Of Us, where people claimed that a kiss is a ****ing sign of friendship... I don't know what kind of "friendships" you guys have), and others who will use the slightest hint to confirm that someone is gay/lesbian. Hell I've seen a guy say stuff like "I just wish I was in your arms forever" to another dude and pass it off as a friendly/jokey thing.
Basically, in this day and age, anything involving gays and lesbians is incredibly messy.
I've had friends who are girls that would sometimes hold hands or kiss on the cheek or cuddle but girls in general are more touchy with each other compared to guys. However, they wouldn't talk about each other like Fang and Vanille did.
In general, discussing if someone is gay or lesbian without proof of seeing them kissing another person of the same sex is a huge discussion that'll lead nowhere. There's a lot of people who are oblivious, a lot of people who just refuse to see it (aka like in The Last Of Us, where people claimed that a kiss is a ****ing sign of friendship... I don't know what kind of "friendships" you guys have), and others who will use the slightest hint to confirm that someone is gay/lesbian. Hell I've seen a guy say stuff like "I just wish I was in your arms forever" to another dude and pass it off as a friendly/jokey thing.
Basically, in this day and age, anything involving gays and lesbians is incredibly messy.
Basically this.
This is also super true, to the point where I thought it would be a plot point, and it almost was, but again, FF13, you suck at telling your story.
I'll admit, I laughed at this.
Flame Lord
Member
As others have said I played the game and never once got that idea, and the only event I can think of that would give people that idea is when they hugged, and I would think a lot more than that would be going on if they had been apart for so long.
Definitely not, XIII-2 was fantastic.
Is Fang and Vanille canon? To quote "ShockingAlberto": It's about as canon as it can get without them outright saying it.
Good Lord.
Though, on a side note, I would like to say that everyone is Fang-sexual. No one can resist her. She is kinda a reverse Big Boss (MGS): every straight man is gay for Big Boss, and every gay man is straight for Fang.
Finally: Serah x Noel > Serah x Snow. Seriously, Snow is like that high-school crush who never grew up. He seems to be a fun guy (at least, he thinks he is a cool dude), but he gets tiring after a while.
Good Lord.
Though, on a side note, I would like to say that everyone is Fang-sexual. No one can resist her. She is kinda a reverse Big Boss (MGS): every straight man is gay for Big Boss, and every gay man is straight for Fang.
Finally: Serah x Noel > Serah x Snow. Seriously, Snow is like that high-school crush who never grew up. He seems to be a fun guy (at least, he thinks he is a cool dude), but he gets tiring after a while.
No, Fang and Vanille is not canon.
However, Fang was originally a male character, so I suppose there was a romance intended at some point. When she was changed to a female character, the romantic elements were probably retained, but the writers didn't want to confirm a lesbian relationship.
The result is content that just feels like yuri baiting.
However, Fang was originally a male character, so I suppose there was a romance intended at some point. When she was changed to a female character, the romantic elements were probably retained, but the writers didn't want to confirm a lesbian relationship.
The result is content that just feels like yuri baiting.
Lights and Waves
Member
So you don't want gay characters in this series because you think it'll ruin the franchise? Ok.
Is the thought of two adult women being in a consenting relationship THAT much of a problem? You sound salty since everyone called you out and you couldn't provide a single shroud of evidence to back up your claims.
All in all, good thread everyone. It's also so wonderful to see GAFers that do support the idea of LGBT inclusion in video games. Visibility means a lot to a lot of people, and the more we have of it, the better!
This is an issue that is not limited to the Games industry in Japan. Anime and, to a lesser extent, Manga have the same problem. A certain lyrical magical girl comes to mind... but I digress. I think that they like keeping the ambiguity so that those who are against homosexual relationships can pretend that they are friends, while the ones who want to see them as a couple can cling to that notion, as we always do. A bit of bread crumbs here and there and the yuri crowd will show up. Confirm it though, and they risk driving away the ones who are strongly against it.
I do already have the game in my possession. I've been putting it off because the lack of Fang in XIII-2 lowered my desire to play it considerably. I'll probably give it a go when I have the time. Thanks.
thelastcrusader
Banned
While I'd have no problem with them being in a relationship, I think it's safe to assume they weren't. It was just friendly love to me. Fang seems incredibly dominant and I think if she was in a relationship with Vanille or wanted to be, she would have made it clearly known. I think it had more to do with Fang knowing how innocent and naive Vanille was, admiring her for it, and wanting to protect that innocence at any cost.
What I find interesting though is that this is purely a market choice, or at least it seems to be this way, I don't feel like they fear some conservative outrage or anything like that, because at the same time you have KyoAni's huge tease in Hibike! Euphonium (probably for the reasons you mentioned), you also have anime like Sakura Trick, which is pretty much a show about girls kissing, and I don't remember any outrage about it being mentioned while it was running.
So I get the impression that while these people who are against those relationships aren't as strongly against them as I'm used to seeing where I live.
EDIT: Great, now I have Sakura Trick's opening stuck in my head. The coreography, maaan, so good :')
JadedWriter
Member
I ship those two the same way I ship Rita and Estelle from Vesperia. And to answer the question...yeah the first time I played XIII it came off as "Those two are fucking."
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
Siblings can smang too
People think Chie and Yukiko are a couple? Wooooooooooow
What
I never got that impression from Chie and Yukiko. Fang and Vanille seems a lot more likely to me than those two. For some reason.
My headcannon couple from P4 is Kanji X Naoto, I'll never be able to date Naoto when playing P4 for that reason.
Oreimo gifs are so good.
My headcannon couple from P4 is Kanji X Naoto, I'll never be able to date Naoto when playing P4 for that reason.
Siblings can smang too
Oreimo gifs are so good.
JadedWriter
Member
I honestly think there's a good amount of in game dialogue that fuels the Chie and Yukiko relationship, they do have a bit of a need for each other if I'm not mistaken.
They certainly do, I just never felt that it was that kind of need.
Siblings can smang too
::Internally Screaming::
30yearsofhurt
Member
I'm so amazed that so many of you actually had the fortitude to finish FF13.
I quit about ten minutes after this Fang person showed up.
I'm not saying it was a bad game, but it was a bad game.
I quit about ten minutes after this Fang person showed up.
I'm not saying it was a bad game, but it was a bad game.
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
I actually think it's a very good game. It's beautiful, the soundtrack is awesome and I adore the battle system, didn't require much fortitude
XIII-2 was trash to me though, that required a lot of fortitude.
JadedWriter
Member
They even have a victory pose together in P4G if I'm not mistaken...or am I confusing that with their double attack?
Definitely not the only one, though personally I didn't get that impression from either.
Fang definitely looked older than she is (but, well, people often do look older/younger than they are), but Vanille being 19 seems reasonable to me.
FFXIII characters are pretty good and have plenty of soul.This thread proves a single aspect of these characters can warrant a discussion like this i.e they're not as shallow and lacking as nay sayers often claim.
Female leads in XIII are pretty damn good for what was a male dominated generation of games.They dont get enough appreciation.
Female leads in XIII are pretty damn good for what was a male dominated generation of games.They dont get enough appreciation.