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Fang and Vanille...is it canon?
- Thread starter Lights and Waves
- Start date
Please, do tell. Can you give us an example of this?
Are you a master of Japanese culture?
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
I saw it as friendship that got exaggerated because they were the only two Pulsians left. You'd attach yourself to the other last living survivor of your civilization too.
Fang was a great character all around. XIII-2 was a better game but it suffered from not having Fang in it. Vanille, on the other hand, was hands down the worst character in the game, so I guess it balances out.
Unless they happen to be kinda nuts like in the Caius/Noel situation that follows
Fang was a great character all around. XIII-2 was a better game but it suffered from not having Fang in it. Vanille, on the other hand, was hands down the worst character in the game, so I guess it balances out.
zeopower6
Member
IIRC, there was a lot of talk about the end cutscene of XIII when it first came out in Japanese screens/streams and what it represented. And they definitely are not sisters. Not sure why the Japanese one would state that when it's not true. They did grow up together in an Oerban orphanage though.
Not even a question for me.
Episode Zero supports it (Vanille literally says she'll atone for Fang's sins if they let Fang live), and in-game the intimacy of their words/actions are very overtly romantic. If Fang was male and she said things like "I'd tear down the sky to save her" while Lightning said "they're bounded together by something stronger than family" absolutely no one would be questioning it.
Supplemental material shows that they were close before everyone on Pulse died out, though.
Episode Zero supports it (Vanille literally says she'll atone for Fang's sins if they let Fang live), and in-game the intimacy of their words/actions are very overtly romantic. If Fang was male and she said things like "I'd tear down the sky to save her" while Lightning said "they're bounded together by something stronger than family" absolutely no one would be questioning it.
Supplemental material shows that they were close before everyone on Pulse died out, though.
TheDarkKnight774
Member
I thought it was painfully obvious they were a couple
BananasWithGuns
Member
Personally I never got the impression that they were lovers. There was nothing I saw that really hinted at it. Just seemed like they built a strong bond through the hardship they had to endure together. I would say Fang was more of a motherly figure to Vanille than anything honestly.
Mr_Antimatter
Member
Tidus isn't trying to hide that he has to
kill millions or face eternity as a monster
I don't remember cat sith or aeris having the issue crisis ether. Harle is close, but distinct in well, her origin. Vanille was a normal girl given a task against her will, and tried everything she could to run from it. Radius was a solder, Aeris doesn't seem like the same (I haven't played the game, going off her in game bio). Locke also doesn't have the same sort of past it seems.
vainglorious
Member
I saw no such thing. I actually think the Japanese dialogue is more suggestive. And the Japanese picked up on the subtext as well. You're going to have to show me the exact line that suggests that they are sisters. Disclaimer: I played the English version and watched the cut scenes in Japanese on niconico.
diablos991
Can’t stump the diablos
Alright, I think I'm too old...
What does canon mean in this context?
What does canon mean in this context?
Lights and Waves
Member
Receipts? Anyone can make a claim like this. I want proof. Transcripts.
YankeeDonB
Member
I don't think they're biological sisters. They're clearly deeply attached and consider each other family. Could be they're romantically entangled. Could also be that this type of non-biological family relationship was totally commonplace in Oerba.
The more I think about it, the less important it seems to my understanding of the characters. Fang is a well dressed badass who protects Vanille, and Vanille is a squeaky-but-surprisingly deep teen with nasty death magic and some kind of killer fishing rod. Works either way.
The more I think about it, the less important it seems to my understanding of the characters. Fang is a well dressed badass who protects Vanille, and Vanille is a squeaky-but-surprisingly deep teen with nasty death magic and some kind of killer fishing rod. Works either way.
stargateheaven
Member
wut? they are really close friends, like sisters. cos they spent so many years together...
BigBadShamoo
Banned
I definitely got this vibe as well with these two characters. Especially at the end when they
. Lol.
I wouldn't want them to be because, it's Final Fantasy. But it's definitely funny to think about it as a "what if."
I think about this stuff all the time actually it's kinda funny.
solidified
I wouldn't want them to be because, it's Final Fantasy. But it's definitely funny to think about it as a "what if."
I think about this stuff all the time actually it's kinda funny.
zeopower6
Member
"Official" as in originally intended by the producers/directors. Like how Serah/Snow was a canon relationship but something like Lightning/Hope is more of a fan creation and is not canon.
I think they put a lot of hints here and there but all they ever did was suggest it. It was never actually confirmed by SE or anyone working on XIII but it seems like most people saw romance between the two of them.
I don't think it's just that at all. Just how many lesbian relationships (or even just two females being close friends) do you see in games anyway? I feel like it happens way more with male characters but simply because there are more of them and there's more situations where you can read it as such.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
I haven't played the game since it came out, and I'm not about to hunt down lines to win an Internet argument
Enjoy your lesbian ship
zeopower6
Member
Uhhh wha? You can't just say things like that and then ditch. D: I am very sure you're mistaken though so there are no lines to find anyway since I don't think SE ever clarified in any language in any game just what Vanille and Fang were.
BigBadShamoo
Banned
Romance between Lightning and Hope? No wayyy.
Lol. Hope is hopeless.
Lightning is like a single independent woman. Hope has no chance. Snow would be a better pick for Lightning (lol sorry Serah, not really though, cuz Serah seems to be with Noel anyway) lolololol.
I guess anything is possible, I mean Wakka from FFX was able
afterall.
But still Hope is just ughhhh.
Lol. Hope is hopeless.
Lightning is like a single independent woman. Hope has no chance. Snow would be a better pick for Lightning (lol sorry Serah, not really though, cuz Serah seems to be with Noel anyway) lolololol.
I guess anything is possible, I mean Wakka from FFX was able
to get with Lulu
But still Hope is just ughhhh.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
This is really not that important to me lol
The reverse question is - why is it when people see two members of the same sex engaging in behavior that would be considered romantic in a heterosexual context, they often come up with alternate explanations that avoid the possibility of homosexuality and same-sex romance, sometimes to the point of absurdity? ("They're saying they love each other and kissing in a platonic, friendly way", "they're just bros who are declaring their love and willingness to die for one another out of a sense of fraternity, that's all.")
Yes, it's possible for two members of the same sex to have a deep and intimate relationship that's entirely platonic, just as it's possible for a man and woman to have a deep and intimate relationship that's entirely non-sexual and non-romantic. But romantic same-sex relationships are also a valid possibility and shouldn't be construed as a far-fetched or negative interpretation to be avoided, especially since many creators nowadays are more interested in and willing to depict (or at least "hint" at) same-sex romantic relationships than they were in the past.
Happy-Bunny
Banned
If you want them to be lesbians, sure why not. But it's not canon.
If you want them to be lesbians, sure why not. But it's not canon.
It isn't that simple.
If anything, Sephiroth would have had a strange oedipal fetish with Jenova.
I just assume he's asexual though.
I didn't play it long enough to really notice but I believe it. I just couldn't with that game.
I know there's a fan base that ships Lightning and Hope. >.>
Might as well be.
I just assume he's asexual though.
I didn't play it long enough to really notice but I believe it. I just couldn't with that game.
I know there's a fan base that ships Lightning and Hope. >.>
Might as well be.
Happy-Bunny
Banned
Why not?
zeopower6
Member
There is this that was mentioned earlier and it isn't so bad... but then right after, Fang lifts Vanille's skirt to check her brand, lol.
Why do you think that it's as simple as you think it is? There are so many hints that it's more than just friendship or sisterly bonds.
But they're both thousands of years old, right?
What did you think of the relationship between Snow and Sarah? She looked 12.
Ambiguity and implications, it is why we have this topic in the first place.
Yeah, it was pretty blatant. They take it to the molecule-length of the line during the course of FFXIII, and i'm pretty sure there was a line in LR that said something along the lines that Fang and Vanille share a bond that goes beyond family.
lol
lol
Yeahh and I think the canon physical age is 18 and 21. I still say creepy because Vanille looks and acts like a little kid.
I didn't think Serah looked that young tbh.
Mr_Antimatter
Member
They both look the same age to me, honestly. The final fantasy wiki lists Vanille at 19 and Fang at 21 in FF13.
Yeah, and those people are a bunch of deluded poor souls that need to get their heads checked
Femmeworth
Banned
Romantic or not, it's not a very healthy relationship. Also Vanille is awful.
Happy-Bunny
Banned
So you basically interpret it the way according to your personal beliefs or preferences but OP asked if it's canon!?
yeah I thought it was a sister-like relationship... i NEVER thought it was romantic in the slightest.
That is the thing when it comes to gay and lesbian relationships as they are often times written in coded ways to hide that very thing because of unfortunate rationales. If we are talking about the subject of canonicity, then find me the statement from the creators stating that Vanille and Fang are or are not a couple. If none such exists then this entire thread has been filled when personal interpretation that has varied wildly.
zeopower6
Member
Vanille certainly looks older than Serah, lol. It's mostly 'cause Serah's frame is so small... especially her upper body. Though Vanille is an inch shorter than Serah despite being a year older. (or at least appearing a year older)
That's the thing though. They've never really commented on it despite dropping hints all over it. Heck, they even
end up living together in some cattle ranch-y desert post Lightning Returns.
Fukui: In addition to that, it would make me very happy if the fans perceive the priceless bond between Vanille and Fang as something more powerful than friendship.
It's hard to see them as being anything else IMO. Honestly, I wonder if the cast was told they were lovers but to never actually state that they are in interviews.
I think "canon" means "intended by the creators", not "so obvious and blatant that there's no room for debate as to meaning or interpretation".
The creators can intend something but still have it be ambiguous or open to interpretation by the audience. In this case people are discussing whether it was the creator's intention for the relationship to be romantic, and they're pointing to different scenes and evidence to support their view that this was the creator's intention.
Mr_Antimatter
Member
I pegged it as the sort of soft-lesbian romance you see in a lot of anime/manga. SE wasn't brave enough to have a straight up lesbian couple, so they resort to the usual subtext.
A lot of my friends who played it pretty much thought of it the same way.
Always thought it was funny, though, that a lot of the fanfiction around FF13's release was all Fang/Light. I guess FF writers loved to see the two strong females together.
A lot of my friends who played it pretty much thought of it the same way.
Always thought it was funny, though, that a lot of the fanfiction around FF13's release was all Fang/Light. I guess FF writers loved to see the two strong females together.
Also a better choice then Vanelle.
Happy-Bunny
Banned
It's in the name of the thread "Fang and Vanille...is it canon?".
Happy-Bunny
Banned
So we are back to highschool where we discuss if one expression of the cute girl/boy meant this or that.
zeopower6
Member
If that is your takeaway from this, so be it, but it's much more than just "Oh, she looked at her with googly eyes! They MUST be in love!".
That seems to be the actual answer oddly enough.
Masked Man
I said wow
I always found Vanille to be hella irritating, but I'm all for gaying up video games, so I gladly accept this as canon.