• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
  • Hey Guest. Check out the NeoGAF 2.2 Update Thread for details on our new Giphy integration and other new features.

Ferrari wants to add female drivers to F1 junior programme

Airbus Jr

Member
Aug 12, 2018
4,912
8,332
750


Ferrari wants to add female drivers to its Formula 1 junior programme and is working to make sure it happens "very soon".


Only six women have ever participated in an official Formula 1 world championship weekend and Lella Lombardi remains the most successful with a best result of sixth in the shortened 1975 Spanish Grand Prix, which earned her half a point.

The most recent female participant was Susie Wolff, who took part in four practice sessions across the 2014 and 2015 seasons, while Giovanna Amati was the last to attempt to take part in a grand prix, failing to qualify for three races in 1992 for Brabham.

W Series champion Jamie Chadwick and Formula 2 backmarker Tatiana Calderon have affiliations with the Williams and Alfa Romeo F1 teams respectively, with Calderon testing an old Sauber privately.

Ferrari is preparing to increase the number of Ferrari Driver Academy participants in 2020 as it attempts to "invest in the future", according to team boss Mattia Binotto.
"A few other drivers will join," he said. "It's something on which we are working very hard. So, we are pleased to know that.
"The Driver Academy is an important investment for us. [Ferrari F1 driver] Charles is the best example. We need to look at the future generation of talent for Ferrari.

"The Academy also looks for women in the future. Women should be part of the Ferrari Driver Academy. That's something on which we are working right now to make sure that it may happen very soon."

Since the F1 world championship started in 1950, there have been 772 different drivers who have started a grand prix.

Only two, Lombardi and Maria Teresa de Filippis, are women – although non-qualifier Desiree Wilson had success elsewhere, winning a round of the 1980 British F1 series at Brands Hatch in a Wolf WR4.
Six-time world champion Lewis Hamilton said in an end-of-season video released by Mercedes last week that a successful female driver would be part of his wish to see F1 more diverse.

"I want the sport to be more accessible," said Hamilton, who became the first black F1 driver when he made his debut in 2007.
"I was at the FIA gala and I came across an Asian family, and I was like, 'Hey, I thought I was gonna be the only brown person here!' Because that's how it normally is.

"I'm in a world where that's been common for my entire life. So to see people of colour in the audience, whether it's black, Asian, whatever it may be, it's just great to see diversity slowly creeping in.

"It is a world that's open to everyone. And I hope at some stage there's a young powerful woman that comes through and blows the field away. Wouldn't that be something special?"
 
Last edited:

accel

Member
Sep 11, 2015
890
362
520
If female drivers will drive as well as male drivers, then sure, why not and in fact, the addition of female drivers is very welcome. The big question is - will their driving be this competitive? Because there are plenty of areas where the performance of female vs male is different. Eg, in esports, since we are on the site that isn't alien to gaming. But, again - as an experiment, why not, I am all for it.
 

M3Freak

Banned
Jun 8, 2004
2,058
44
1,490
Canada
My gut feeling is women drivers won't take the same risks males would, which means they will get crushed. That doesn't mean they shouldn't be F1 drivers. I'm just saying women will have to fight against their natural instinct and that's going to be hard.

Men are more willing than women to take risks.
 

cryptoadam

Banned
Feb 21, 2018
24,155
51,431
1,215
Whats next Asian drivers ?

Bada bing bada boom. (cuz you know they both have the stereotype of being horrible drivers.)

Sure why not, just don't dumb down the rules for the girls. If they can't make it then they can't make it, if they can then all the power to them. I won't diminish the work drivers put into racing, but the car plays a big role as well. You could take the best driver and put him in a beat up chevy and he isn't winning any F1 races.
 

Fox Mulder

Member
Jul 1, 2009
18,712
2,286
1,100
Greensboro, NC
Auto racing is one of the few sports where women could actually compete with men. F1 drivers are light and fit and the cars have power steering.
 

Stilton Disco

Member
Aug 22, 2014
7,055
7,915
800
England
They should absolutely be allowed to compete for a place, but the odds are not in thier favour.

Not only are there the aforementioned differences in predilection to risk taking, but the fact is that men have on average far better reaction times, dexterity and ability to cope with both physical and mental stresses.

Still, it could well be that the greatest driver in the world right now is a woman, that is entirely possible, but statistically for every one woman who'd want to compete, there would likely be one hundred men that could beat her despite their not caring as much.
 

DKehoe

Member
Jun 19, 2007
6,659
3,135
1,405
I don’t know enough about F1 to be sure but the things I’d think would be desirable qualities for drivers aren’t things that men inherently have advantages in, like strength and speed. So I don’t see how it would be a bad idea. Maybe they’re just tapping into a talent pool that’s never been fully explored.
 

Birdo

Member
Jun 12, 2019
7,767
28,246
710
Mushroom Kingdom
Auto racing is one of the few sports where women could actually compete with men. F1 drivers are light and fit and the cars have power steering.

F1 is actually really phisically demanding, due to the strong g-forces. Although, most women could handle them.

But there are other reasons that women don't make great race drivers. All mostly due to different mental attitudes and behaviours between the sexes.
 

cormack12

Gold Member
Mar 21, 2013
8,842
21,211
1,515
I mean yeah, why not? People have to be sensible though and not expect 'leg ups' or crutches to facilitate it. This came up I think when the grid girls were cancelled. There are physical demands that will be harder for women to get to grips with. As soon as you introduce physicality, men are going to win out most of the time. You may get the odd outlier but even then, that outlier will be competing with the absolute top end of the men, so while they might qualify it will be difficult to leave a mark. It's not like Fallon Sherrock for example.

Simon Reynolds went through this not long ago (not specific to men/women but drivers):

“An F1 driver is a complete athlete. Although they are not moving dynamically like footballers or rugby players they have to cope with a static load from the g-force as well as the vibrations and physical demands of steering the car for many repetitions.

“F1 drivers have a similar VO2 max (a measure of how much oxygen the heart, lungs and muscles can utilise during exercise) to professional rowers. They might have a V02 max of around 60ml/kg/min plus but anything upwards of that is desirable.


“In terms of extreme forces they endure, this season we anticipate a greater mechanical grip and faster cornering speeds so we would expect a possible increase in the lateral and longitudinal g-forces which will increase the load on the neck. The neck has to endure a 30-35% increase in load, so the equivalent of about an extra 30-40kg.

“The shoulder complex is the most important area of a driver’s body, together with the hips and back. The shoulders are what support the neck and the head and also the arms for steering.


All they can do is try I guess. If the field is still male dominated then the above will have some merit. Although we can look at data and the absence of qualifying women at the moment, we don't really have a focused attempt to measure and monitor. The question isn't really can they win a championship, the question really is would enough qualify to make it worth it and not diminish the women's sport. Would they sacrifice the entire W-Series programme in order to get a few qualifiers and competitors into F1. I don't really see the big benefit, I'd say it's more beneficial to keep them seperate and have a curtain raiser with the divisions racing each other as a ceremonial event to gauge the progress over time.
 

Saber

Member
Jan 30, 2019
3,828
3,521
660
As long they're good drivers, I'm all for it.

Just don't go using your gender as an excuse(either for bad driving, accidents or pressures of the work). We all know the risks.
 

Greedings

Member
May 23, 2016
2,448
2,275
490
Yup. Who cares as long as they can drive well. If the standards are the same then I see no issue.
 

ruvikx

Banned
Jan 12, 2018
1,822
3,599
475
Yup. Who cares as long as they can drive well. If the standards are the same then I see no issue.

Women have been free to become f1 drivers for decades. It hasn't happened because the sport is too hard for them. Recent attempts to make the cars easier to drive + the new reglemntations coming in 2021 (aiming to make the cars slower) are probably all factoring into Ferrari's thinking here (aka make a political point because they can), but it doesn't change the material fact: put a woman versus a man in an f1 car circa beginning of the sport all the way until 2019 & they'll lose.
 

Greedings

Member
May 23, 2016
2,448
2,275
490
Women have been free to become f1 drivers for decades. It hasn't happened because the sport is too hard for them. Recent attempts to make the cars easier to drive + the new reglemntations coming in 2021 (aiming to make the cars slower) are probably all factoring into Ferrari's thinking here (aka make a political point because they can), but it doesn't change the material fact: put a woman versus a man in an f1 car circa beginning of the sport all the way until 2019 & they'll lose.

yeah I know nothing about F1, but one can’t account for genetic freaks. I’m sure there’s a woman out there who can beat a lot of men at driving cars. Maybe it’s extremely unlikely.

what exactly is so physically demanding about F1? I’m not denigrating the sport, I genuinely don’t know.
 

ruvikx

Banned
Jan 12, 2018
1,822
3,599
475
yeah I know nothing about F1, but one can’t account for genetic freaks. I’m sure there’s a woman out there who can beat a lot of men at driving cars. Maybe it’s extremely unlikely.

what exactly is so physically demanding about F1? I’m not denigrating the sport, I genuinely don’t know.

Reflexes, concentration, level headiness etc. etc. & the physical aspect as well. F1 is like fighter pilots in the military. Women aren't good at that either.
 

eot

Banned
Apr 13, 2012
12,806
4,703
895
F1 is actually really phisically demanding, due to the strong g-forces. Although, most women could handle them.

But there are other reasons that women don't make great race drivers. All mostly due to different mental attitudes and behaviours between the sexes.
Being small is actually better for dealing with g-forces. Jets are a bit different from F1, because in racing the forces are lateral, but for example tall people struggle more in high G flight maneuvers because it's simply longer for the blood to get to their brain.
 

eot

Banned
Apr 13, 2012
12,806
4,703
895
F1 is like fighter pilots in the military. Women aren't good at that either.
Says who? Women have been flying jets in combat for a long time. The first female US Navy pilot was in the 70's or something
 

Can't decide

Member
Sep 11, 2018
721
1,640
430
Women have always been allowed in F1. If one were fast enough to compete, they would already be doing so and would absolutely be raking in the money and publicity.

The physical and mental factors have already been mentioned up above, you can also likely chuck in others like spatial awareness, reactions, calculations, predictions and so on which need to be carried out faster and more precisely than any other motorsport.
Since F1 is the elite of motorsports, only the very best of the best are allowed in, where most of the requirements benefit male biology.
 

Pagusas

Elden Member
Jun 9, 2006
12,674
4,298
1,685
Prosper, Tx
Wonderful. If they can compete and are the best candidate for the job (and get equal opportunities to be trained!) they should absolutely be candidates, and that goes for everything in life.

If Person A is the best person to do Job A, they should be a top candidate for getting it, no matter the sex, color, religion or orientation. Sometimes person a can’t/isn’t competitive with person b, which might be genetics, that doesn’t suddenly mean person A should be automatically consider for the job because they are a minority or different sex.

The difficult area is insuring everyone has legit access to equal opportunities of training. I have a feeling it would be harder for a woman to be taken seriously right now when trying to get the training for such a job, hopefully a few successful women can open those doors though to others being taken seriously.
 

Birdo

Member
Jun 12, 2019
7,767
28,246
710
Mushroom Kingdom
Women have always been allowed in F1. If one were fast enough to compete, they would already be doing so and would absolutely be raking in the money and publicity.

It's the same with Chess. Women have always been included in the world ranking. But people think they aren't because there isn't a single one in the top 100.
 
Last edited:

Kittehkraken

Member
Jan 14, 2017
1,495
3,372
480
Michèle Mouton raced Group B rally cars and was competitive against some of the greatest drivers ever. Girls have no excuses but a lack of talent for not being competitive against men.

 

Gargus

Banned
Oct 1, 2018
2,054
2,858
535
Adding female drivers would be an excellent decision.

How so?

I fail to see why gender would make any difference at all. Does it really matter if a vagina crosses the finish line first instead of a dick? Nope. In racing sex doesnt mean shit. Its 40% machine, and 60% driver. Nascar has had female drivers for a while and no one gives a shit, they just want to see a good race.
 

Stilton Disco

Member
Aug 22, 2014
7,055
7,915
800
England
My point still stands. Russia had female fighter pilots. Being technical about it doesn't change the fact.
[/URL]
The fact that some women are good enough to do something doesn't mean all men and women are equally good at it.

Human biological ttaits are bimodal. They strongly differ on average, but there can be huge variations and individuals outside the norms in both directions.

That still doesn't change the fact that most poeple do conform strongly with the rest of their gender though.

And the fact is, pretty much every trait required to be a good fighter pilot or a race car driver, or pretty much any physically active occupation, occur more frequently and strongly in men, and will thus lead to an overwhelming gender disparity, that would simply be a sign of a fair system where everyone would get an equal opportunity to prove their worth.
 

Can't decide

Member
Sep 11, 2018
721
1,640
430
Women have been successful in top fuel drag racing too which takes enormous balls - controlling a 11,000hp land missle that accelerates from 0-300mph in 3 seconds.

F1 though is clearly a different ball game.
 

teacupcopter

Banned
Sep 1, 2005
1,505
296
1,505
How so?

I fail to see why gender would make any difference at all. Does it really matter if a vagina crosses the finish line first instead of a dick? Nope. In racing sex doesnt mean shit. Its 40% machine, and 60% driver. Nascar has had female drivers for a while and no one gives a shit, they just want to see a good race.

It could be 99% car and 1% driver and while people want to see a good race, they also want characters and athletes they can get behind. Schumacher, Vettel, Hamilton, etc.

I think for something like F1 just level the playing field and let them compete. It’ll be good for the sport to have some female role models / athletes in it for girls to be able to look up to as well as the boys.
 

EviLore

Expansive Ellipses
Staff Member
May 30, 2004
28,059
66,013
2,450
There are legit female racing drivers. They're a relative rarity, but taking some steps to develop the talent pool is cool.
 

captainraincoat

Gold Member
Nov 15, 2010
5,056
7,547
1,240
Whats next Asian drivers ?

Bada bing bada boom. (cuz you know they both have the stereotype of being horrible drivers.)

Sure why not, just don't dumb down the rules for the girls. If they can't make it then they can't make it, if they can then all the power to them. I won't diminish the work drivers put into racing, but the car plays a big role as well. You could take the best driver and put him in a beat up chevy and he isn't winning any F1 races.


We need a new maldonado
 

Mista

Dragonslayer
Nov 21, 2014
20,427
35,369
1,420
They’re allowed to participate since decades but none of them wants to join because it’s hard for them. I’m all for equality but when it comes to anything that requires physical power, men will always win. But the world doesn’t want to accept that because “Male world bad. No equality bad”
 

Dontero

Banned
Apr 19, 2018
3,051
3,369
620
Auto racing is one of the few sports where women could actually compete with men.

Nope.
- Men have better IQ (aka they learn faster)
- men have better spatial inteligence
- better response times (by significant margin)
- structure of their muscles give them more power per cubic cm.

Those genetic gifts help tremendously in motorsport. What gives women advantage in motorsport is that it is not exactly genetic race like other sports. Because you need strong finantial backing that allows you racing which means that averages are more likely than freaks.
Especially in F1 when you can just have wealthy daddy and he will sponsor team at cost of his son in one of bolids which is story of few teams over past 10 yeras.
 
  • Praise the Sun
Reactions: V4skunk

captainraincoat

Gold Member
Nov 15, 2010
5,056
7,547
1,240
Nope.
- Men have better IQ (aka they learn faster)
- men have better spatial inteligence
- better response times (by significant margin)
- structure of their muscles give them more power per cubic cm.

Those genetic gifts help tremendously in motorsport. What gives women advantage in motorsport is that it is not exactly genetic race like other sports. Because you need strong finantial backing that allows you racing which means that averages are more likely than freaks.
Especially in F1 when you can just have wealthy daddy and he will sponsor team at cost of his son in one of bolids which is story of few teams over past 10 yeras.

Not sure where you are pulling those facts from but there are many females in sports that give males a run for their money
 

Stilton Disco

Member
Aug 22, 2014
7,055
7,915
800
England
Not sure where you are pulling those facts from but there are many females in sports that give males a run for their money
The IQ thing is dodgy, since it averages out the same, but men are both more likely to have higher and lower IQ's than women, so there are technically more high IQ men than high IQ women, but that doesn't mean high IQ women don't exist.

The difference really is far greater in the other things they mentioned though, to the point you'd struggle to find a woman who would beat a man full stop in some of them, although it does very rarely happen.

What you said is complete bollocks though. It's a nice idea that won'tdamage anyones fragile egos, and certainly a politically correct one, but the reality of our biology simply doesnt support it.

Theres a reason why men and women almost never compete directly, and when they do, men utterly dominate, and it's nothing to do with sexism or cultural norms.

I mean there's a reason famous examples like a random under 16's boy's football team wiping the floor with the best women's team in the world happened.
 
Last edited:

TheMan

Member
Jul 31, 2006
8,533
1,162
1,555
Yeah, it's always puzzled me that women haven't made more inroads into motorsports. I get that there is a physical component to being a top driver, but I feel like that shouldn't be a big enough hurdle to prevent at least a handful of women to compete and do well.
 

Siri

Banned
Sep 1, 2019
1,019
1,376
385
Auto racing is one of the few sports where women could actually compete with men..

Completely wrong.

Certain males have a rare genetic ability to slow down time with their brains. The US Air Force has a test in which different coloured dots pass across a screen. The test subject has to touch the corresponding coloured button before the dot passes off screen. Those of us without the genetic ability to do this fail the test almost immediately, while those with the gene can go on touching buttons forever. It turns out that F1 drivers and fighter pilots both have this ability.

Women are unable to pass this test. Which is why women drivers in male driving completions have never won at the highest level.
 
Last edited:
Apr 19, 2019
9,180
15,106
780
Away with the fairies
Reflexes, concentration, level headiness etc. etc. & the physical aspect as well. F1 is like fighter pilots in the military. Women aren't good at that either.

Women make better fighter pilots than men. They can with-stand more G-force and are naturally better at multi-tasking.

OT : Just chuck a wig on Hamilton, say he identifies as a woman and voila, problem solved.
 
Last edited:
  • LOL
Reactions: cormack12

Dontero

Banned
Apr 19, 2018
3,051
3,369
620
Not sure where you are pulling those facts from but there are many females in sports that give males a run for their money

Normal distribution:



Which means that you can still see woman who can compete with man but it will be incredibly rare and the higher treshold of what is considered "great" the more and more women are at disadvantage and 1/100 becomes 1/1000 then 1/10000 and so on.
On other hand you can see that women are better at average than men. Meaning that price they paid for with lack of really smart also comes with boon of lack of really dumb.

On other hand you can see a lot of inteligent men but really dumbest part of society are also men.
 

xrnzaaas

Member
Dec 9, 2013
11,758
5,652
785
What they should be doing is scouting for exceptional female talents at a very young age , I don't think any of the female drivers related to current Formula series would be good enough for F1, even Jamie Chadwick. Signing them because F1 wants women would be similar to signing someone like Bruno Senna or Mick Schumacher - they wouldn't get their F1 shot because of their actual skill and former results.

This may sound a little inappropriate but a trans driver would probably have bigger chances of making it into F1. A male turned female would at least have some genetic predispositions left for being a better F1 driver.
 
Last edited: