do it
seriously
a gaming PC is the shit, you won't be yearning for the next gen consoles at all...and even if you do, you can just sit tight for a while until the libraries build up and new re-models show up
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Fighting Games Weekly | Oct 7-13 | Sharing magical moments in cyberspace
- Thread starter enzo_gt
- Start date
do it
seriously
a gaming PC is the shit, you won't be yearning for the next gen consoles at all...and even if you do, you can just sit tight for a while until the libraries build up and new re-models show up
Passive Assassin
Member
CPACOM PLSS
Deckard Cain
Banned
Will a tutorial in game help? Sure, but the impact is so small that will literally influence a fraction of 1/2 a % of the player base. People are not as dumb as you seem to think. They are not incapable of going online to discover these things like cross ups and frames. It is very easy to find that information for anyone who takes a minute of time.
You have to accept that with a compeitive single player game the percentage of people who will become an actual competitive player is small. There is no room for blaming a teammate so you have a choice, blame youself or the game. Most people in society would rather be obsolved of responsability so they blame the game and quit.
This is how things work. The big picture will always be install base. Increasing that is the #1 thing, after that you can work your way down to stuff like a better tutorial but for large net gain you need to broaden the appeal of your product, which in this case means a more well rounded quality product.
biosnake20
Member
From Jason24cf:
.
sixteen-bit
Member
Netherrealm will buy it and make MK x SF
toddhunter
Member
I don't believe the impact is small at all. Making fighting games not fighting games is no real solution.
Take the single player content of MK9. It gets a lot of praise for how much there is and how all fighting games should have similar amounts to attract a larger user base.
The thing is, all of that content is still playing MK9. If you don't know how to play it properly, you will also not be enjoying it properly. You can get through it with jump+sweep and never play another fighting game again because you missed out on the whole point of it. Fighting games are wonderful, but you need to get over the "hump" or you might as well just be mashing buttons randomly and playing Killer Instinct.
Fighting games need to make people love fighting games. If they do, that will be a lot more people buying every title. But the game itself needs to do the work, not youtube or forums or anything else. This is because people simply will not take the time to learn outside the game. When it is "game time" it is game time and after is time for something else. Heck most people don't even want to go into training mode because that is taking away from actually playing.
It isn't hard and taking the time to specifically explain things after a match should be done.
ian to the max
Member
Passive Assassin
Member
That's...interesting.
... what does the srk illuminati say?!
ian to the max
Member
I am not privy to their clandestine meetings, unfortunately.
Passive Assassin
Member
:[ but can ye refute what jason is saying?
ian to the max
Member
Nah, I just don't put much stock into what he says.
Professor Beef
Banned
lmao
ian to the max
Member
Welcome to the internet.
Why not?
MikeBreezy92
Member
People don't have to learn the game if they don't want to. If they wanna mash through story mode let them.
And a lot of the stuff that has been discovered in fighting game are things learned while playing like footsies, proper spacing, and such and can't really be taught in a tutorial. Not to account for all of the stuff discovered after the game is released. Tutorials aren't the end all be all and you're gonna have to look at an outside source at some point no matter how good the tutorial is.
ian to the max
Member
Past conversations. It's more a personal matter than anything else, I guess.
HAHAHAHA
Man, I've just installed that Darkstalkers mobile game, and it forces you to login with a Line account, and you have to download their app to make an account. Then I said "fuck it" and pressed back to close it, but them I got the alert "Return to the game". Pressing "OK" resets the game, and pressing "cancel" does nothing! YOU CAN'T LEAVE THE GAME! Of course you can force to close it pressing the "home" button, but man that's just so bad
Man, I've just installed that Darkstalkers mobile game, and it forces you to login with a Line account, and you have to download their app to make an account. Then I said "fuck it" and pressed back to close it, but them I got the alert "Return to the game". Pressing "OK" resets the game, and pressing "cancel" does nothing! YOU CAN'T LEAVE THE GAME! Of course you can force to close it pressing the "home" button, but man that's just so bad
toddhunter
Member
You let them do that and then they don't buy another fighting game. Alternatively you write a great story, but that is just not going to happen.
At some stage you will go outside tutorials, but that is ok, by then you are hooked and can get the thrill of competition.
But I'm not talking about tutorials as such, I'm talking about teaching you after a game. I've written on this before but in short:
* We have the PS4 and Xbox One constantly recording gameplay.
* After the match, the game should give you a list of reasons why you lost. For example instances where you got crossed up, a combo that wasn't as long as it could be, when you got beat in a frame-trap etc.
* The game should then show you the video of what happened and allow you to "practice" the same scenario over again. For example suggest a combo finisher or ask you to block something you failed to block.
Why would this approach work? Because people get the shits after losing and either want to get better or give up. Giving them the chance to get better straight away, quickly and easily is something I feel would really help people get the full enjoyment.
SloaneRisette
Member
You clearly haven't worked retail before.
If anything people are much dumber than you think.
ian to the max
Member
Doubt it. Did anyone else even mention it?
How many Beyonce gifs you have?
Mr. Bones' wild ride never ends!
Lost Fragment
Obsessed with 4chan
Doubt it. Did anyone else even mention it?
Max. But I think he got his info from Jason.
I'm also in the "I don't believe shit Jason24cf says" club.
Lost Fragment
Obsessed with 4chan
Former DMG head dude, ex VxG team manager, Eventhubs Staff Something.
MikeBreezy92
Member
A lot of people like to do just that and still pick up game after game. Teaching them how to play isn't just gonna work like that if they don't wanna put the time in in the first place.
How will the game even be able to do that properly? That seems like a headache to even program properly and considering the amount of things it has to process it won't be about to do them all.
Passive Assassin
Member
He works at eh. i trust his credibility.
Slamtastic
Member
All game designers should be forced to subscribe to DSP.
toddhunter
Member
The game is already tracking everything that happens like combos and cross up instances, because it has to. If you get hit blocking the wrong way? Increment the crossed up counter and record a timestamp.
Sure it is work to set up the tracking and record some real combos per character. But I think it is much better if devs spend the effort in this direction rather than turning fighting games into glorified rock paper scissors with a high cost cinematic stuck on the end.
It'll probably be a while, but I think I will go PC next gen.
There is another substantial reason to go PC:
+No monthly subscription to play online multiplayer. (An estimated savings of $50/year or approximately $200-$300 over the normal lifespan of a console)
UltraDavid
Member
are you serious
You would need really detailed stat tracking for that to work.
The system would then recognize where you received your most damage from (overheads, cross ups, stray hits, combos, projectiles) and then give an analysis of it plus give you ways to avoid the stuff. You would also have to detail block success rate, use of various mechanics in the game (like in UMVC3 it already sort of tracks how much a player Advance Guards).
But I don't know what kind of tips the system can give you. Like if you are getting opened up by overheads... is it going to say "hey that move hits high.. so block high"? What about if someone is just beating you by footsies? Does it tell you to stop walking forward so much?
IMO a better way to start would be to more detailed information on when you miss combos/links in the Combo Mission modes. Like if you missed a link it would be nice for the system to tell if you did it too early or too late. Probably what KI is doing right now, will have to see what that game has to offer.
The system would then recognize where you received your most damage from (overheads, cross ups, stray hits, combos, projectiles) and then give an analysis of it plus give you ways to avoid the stuff. You would also have to detail block success rate, use of various mechanics in the game (like in UMVC3 it already sort of tracks how much a player Advance Guards).
But I don't know what kind of tips the system can give you. Like if you are getting opened up by overheads... is it going to say "hey that move hits high.. so block high"? What about if someone is just beating you by footsies? Does it tell you to stop walking forward so much?
IMO a better way to start would be to more detailed information on when you miss combos/links in the Combo Mission modes. Like if you missed a link it would be nice for the system to tell if you did it too early or too late. Probably what KI is doing right now, will have to see what that game has to offer.
Mr. David can you please give a comment to the media over all this drama sir *adjusts hat*
ian to the max
Member
Yeah, I stumbled upon it the other day. Pretty great.
Professor Beef
Banned
More like MEH, amirite fellas?
This is neogaf dude, he's serious.
Quit emotionally abusing Jchensor bro. You bros are supposed to be bros.
MiniBossBattle
Member
This is neogaf dude, he's not serious.
Keep joking with Jame Chen man. You guys are just being guys.
toddhunter
Member
Pretty much. It doesn't have to be complicated, just quick and easy. For example Ryu has two moves that look similar, one is an overhead and the other isn't. The game should show you getting hit by the overhead and allow you to practice blocking high if you get hit by it above a threshold.
Footsies is a little different because you can see that you are walking forward and just getting hit. But if you press a button at the same time as the other person and they win? The game should tell you why and suggest something faster that would beat it (and give you the opportunity to try it out). Same with whiff punishing. These are all things you might set up in training mode...but let's make it easy and dare I say it...use the power of the cloud.
We need that too for sure. But I still don't believe people will be sitting there trying to learn combos to later take into a match at an early stage. I look at it like this:
* People will not practice before, because they just want to "fight"
* People will not practice after, because they will want to do something else.
There is a small window where people will be motivated to learn after each match. This is where I think fighting game players can be made.