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Final Fantasy XIV: Heavensward |OT2| RIP Bowmage 2015-2017.
- Thread starter Ken
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Unknown Soldier
Member
Vindictus sucks though.
What happened to "oh pfft ffxiv quests are so ez and quik"
That's because it was made by koreans. The combat was sound. It was just slightly twitchier Dark Souls.
Wow you are auracist.
Unknown Soldier
Member
I dunno, mashing the same 2-3 combos in Vindictus for hundreds of hours got old pretty quickly for me. The identical looking procedurally generated dungeons didn't help it's case either, one thing Diablo was good at was making procedurally generated look good and like not a bunch of square rooms linked by straight hallways.
Well I'm assuming it won't be so bad. I expect the next Deep Dungeon to be better than linked squares as well.
I just want an MMO where I have to dodge hitboxes with invincibility frames is that so much to ask?
Lanrutcon
Member
Nah, but...the MMO has to be designed from the ground up for that. It's not a far out crazy idea though: surely it's been done in something other than a niche F2P Korean MMO?
VanillaCakeIsBurning
Member
I played Warrior as a tank mostly in Tera. Fucking dodge tanking was amazing in that game imo. I never tried Lancer. Tera tanking dumpsters FFXIV tanking imo.
That's basically Blade and Soul. It's combat is more like an action game imo as opposed to a TAB target mmo where you piano a handful of abilities like WoW.
Utilizing abilities with iframes and blocks in that game made combat a lot of fun. And that game came out in 2006.
It's a damn crime that new MMOs weren't following them instead of just aping WoW imo.
And I got to play it in 2016, LUL.
VanillaCakeIsBurning
Member
Yeah I played it too. I meant that in regards to what developers could have looked at and used as reference. I played a bit of every class. Got Kung Fu Master to 45 and the others to various levels then started a Warlock when it came out and that's the class I have right now with the most progression. Mainly because Warlocks are awesome as hell with some of the most stylish animations I've seen for an MMO class.
Also Soulburn.
Unknown Soldier
Member
Yeah BnS is all about the iframes, during your dodge animations enemy attacks just pass through you. How you feel about this particular gameplay style is up to you. I enjoyed the time I spent as a Blade Dancer in BnS, the purpose of BD is to juggle your enemy endlessly until you lag out and he kills you or you kill him first.
I don't have one but I did get to watch people link them at each other in /shout chat to prove their innate superiority, and when you try them on no particle effects.
VanillaCakeIsBurning
Member
They could technically do this in FFXIV I think.
He has moves that have AOE indicators like in FFXIV.
And certain jobs have dodge moves already like Bard and Dragoon so it's not like they couldn't make stuff more action oriented because those kinds of abilities are already in the game but they are just one off things a couple jobs have.
Would love to see a fight where you need to make use of movement abilites to dodge attacks instead of just eating whatever you are targeted with but that's just not the direction they went with or will ever go with in this game.
Unknown Soldier
Member
The game is way too laggy to ever implement timing-based attack dodging. The server and network infrastructure just wasn't designed that way. The lag players experienced dealing with Titan in the original ARR is an example of this. Later boss fights had to be designed specifically with the amount of lag NA/EU players faced in mind, by the time they got to Leviathan which also had ring-out mechanics the dodging was much more lenient because of the inherent lag in the game which had to be accounted for.
Lanrutcon
Member
Ah yes. Titan EX on 300 latency. You have less than .5s to move from Landslides. Maybe not so much fun.
While it is up to you whether or not you want to do them I recommend doing the Crystal tower 24 man raid chain Quest.
It is a great homage to FF3.
And I DEFINITELY recommend doing the Hildebrand Quest line.
Johnlenham
Member
Can anyone explain the point of PoTD and how it relates to levelling up jobs?
Theres either really useless summary's or hyper in depth stuff that goes over my head.
Theres either really useless summary's or hyper in depth stuff that goes over my head.
UtterlyPerplexed
Member
With every tenth floor boss you clear (1-10, 11-20, 21-30, etc.) on a job that is below level 60, you receive EXP rewards at the end. If you're aiming to level up a class/job and want to heavily run Palace of the Dead as a supplementary activity to help level up, it's this EXP reward that you want as it applies to the job outside of PotD. All the EXP you get while killing mobs inside will not go towards the level of your job outside, because Palace of the Dead has its own independent leveling system.
The other reasons to do PotD:
- Randomised loot, typically with the Accursed Hoard that you may occasionally find. These can be appraised outside and RNG can occasionally give you something decent. Most of the time I get confetti or something. There are rarer Gelmorran Potsherds as well that act as an exchangeable currency for Materia, a mount and some minions.
- If you're using a job that is level 50 and over and you queue to go into PotD, you also obtain Allagan Tomestones of Poetics/Lore/Scripture after every tenth floor clear.
- You can obtain decent weapons from it that can be used outside in regular content. You're aiming to incrementally increase the stats of your Aetherpool gear while you're inside Palace (it has its own independent leveling and stats system, so you can go in there naked if you wish). If both stats are 30 at least, you can reset them and in exchange acquire an item level 235 weapon of your choice outside. If once you've done that you rebuild your Aetherpool numbers until they're both at least 60, you can obtain an item level 255 weapon.
There's probably a more elegant and succinct way to explain the above, but this is my attempt.
.
I still find it ridiculous that Minfilia's outfit gives you her massive breast size, I set it to the lowest option available for a reason game!
VanillaCakeIsBurning
Member
I don't think I would have as much as a problem with things if they were designed a bit more intelligently.
By that I mean you have this GCD and then off the GCD moves. But Paladin for example has fucking nothing in terms of this at max level.
Most of your Paladin play will consist of pressing a button in 2.5 second intervals with nothing to make it interesting other than 2 offGCD moves that are infrequently available.
The height of paladin play is pressing a move then doing Spirits Within and Circle of Scorn.
That's all there is to make it interesting which is not really interesting at all.
In this kind of combat with a long 2.5 GCD, you can't just leave shit tons of empty space and expect it to be fun. It becomes mind numbing when all there is to do is wait for 2.5 seconds to finish before the next move repeat unto infinity.
That's why tanks are sub par DPS jobs in this game, because they aren't designed to fully take advantage of the GCD/offGCD flow that DPS jobs are designed for. Dark Knight comes close but they could do more with it.
By that I mean you have this GCD and then off the GCD moves. But Paladin for example has fucking nothing in terms of this at max level.
Most of your Paladin play will consist of pressing a button in 2.5 second intervals with nothing to make it interesting other than 2 offGCD moves that are infrequently available.
The height of paladin play is pressing a move then doing Spirits Within and Circle of Scorn.
That's all there is to make it interesting which is not really interesting at all.
In this kind of combat with a long 2.5 GCD, you can't just leave shit tons of empty space and expect it to be fun. It becomes mind numbing when all there is to do is wait for 2.5 seconds to finish before the next move repeat unto infinity.
That's why tanks are sub par DPS jobs in this game, because they aren't designed to fully take advantage of the GCD/offGCD flow that DPS jobs are designed for. Dark Knight comes close but they could do more with it.
Lunafreya Nox Fleuret
Member
No, but they have nothing special. Don't waste your time.
Post 2.0 progress:
- Complete stupid MSQ which is inconsequential.
- Complete sidequest and unlock a duty dungeon.
- Pick up sidequest get stonewalled by duty trail.
- Complete sidequest and unlock a duty dungeon.
- Pick up sidequest get stonewalled by duty trial.
- Complete stupid MSQ which is inconsequential.
- Pick up sidequest get stonewalled by duty dungeon.
- Pick up sidequest get stonewalled by duty dungeon.
- Pick up sidequest get stonewalled by relic weapon requirements.
- Pick up sidequest get stonewalled by duty dungeon.
- Complete stupid MSQ which is inconsequential.
- Complete sidequest and unlock a duty dungeon.
- Pick up sidequest get stonewalled by duty trial.
- Complete stupid MSQ which is inconsequential.
- Pick up sidequest get stonewalled by FATE requirement.
- Complete sidequest and unlock a duty dungeon.
- Pick up sidequest get stonewalled by duty dungeon.
- Pick up sidequest get stonewalled by duty dungeon.
- Complete sidequest and get useless cosmetic mount attack upgrade.
- Pick up stupid MSQ get stonewalled by duty dungeon.
Is this going to be how all of 2.x is? Lol. My questlog is so filled up I can't even see most objectives anymore on my map. The only way to clear them is to wait 6 years on Duty Finder it seems.
- Complete stupid MSQ which is inconsequential.
- Complete sidequest and unlock a duty dungeon.
- Pick up sidequest get stonewalled by duty trail.
- Complete sidequest and unlock a duty dungeon.
- Pick up sidequest get stonewalled by duty trial.
- Complete stupid MSQ which is inconsequential.
- Pick up sidequest get stonewalled by duty dungeon.
- Pick up sidequest get stonewalled by duty dungeon.
- Pick up sidequest get stonewalled by relic weapon requirements.
- Pick up sidequest get stonewalled by duty dungeon.
- Complete stupid MSQ which is inconsequential.
- Complete sidequest and unlock a duty dungeon.
- Pick up sidequest get stonewalled by duty trial.
- Complete stupid MSQ which is inconsequential.
- Pick up sidequest get stonewalled by FATE requirement.
- Complete sidequest and unlock a duty dungeon.
- Pick up sidequest get stonewalled by duty dungeon.
- Pick up sidequest get stonewalled by duty dungeon.
- Complete sidequest and get useless cosmetic mount attack upgrade.
- Pick up stupid MSQ get stonewalled by duty dungeon.
Is this going to be how all of 2.x is? Lol. My questlog is so filled up I can't even see most objectives anymore on my map. The only way to clear them is to wait 6 years on Duty Finder it seems.
Because the expectation is tanking will fill their time with other things (mechanics, positioning, theoretically threat/mitigation, etc.). Tank and healer DPS rotations are kept that simplistic to not interfere with their primary responsibilities. Their fun is mostly on what the encounter asks of them. For what's it worth, this also slots tanks pretty comfortably between the healers/casters and then all the physical DPS when it comes to casts per minute; I can hover the high 20s/low 30 casts per minute in a 10 minute fight, which isn't that inactive since most the physical DPS are mid 30s with ranged at mid-to-high 30s.
And if we want to get technical, the most complex part of PLD is probably syncing Fight or Flight with their rotation. Which really just comes down to "use it right before Goring Blade" so you get 2x FoF'd GB DoTs in the GB/RA/RA rotation. Not ... exactly a huge thing but still D:
Don't get me wrong, I'd like to see more to do for tanks but I'm hoping for more active tweaking on the actual tanking side of it and leaving the DPS parts mostly as is (or increased due to the tank-side changes).
Relic aside, you'll basically be either with MSQ quests (that range from inconsequential to potentially insulting your intelligence with a few trial / dungeons here and there) or sidequests that are dungeon unlocks for the 2.X content. There's Hildibrand for comic relief but there's not a whole lot of sidequests that are specifically just for freely telling a story.
SoundPulse
Banned
Post 2.0, pre 3.0 is pretty much a loooooot of busy work with some cool stuff sprinkled in every now and then. Try not to burn yourself out by hyper-focusing on it.
The Hildibrand quest line is a pretty good distraction, if you feel you need it.
The Hildibrand quest line is a pretty good distraction, if you feel you need it.
VanillaCakeIsBurning
Member
I know why it's done I'm just saying after you do all the tank shit and aggro is yours and you're in the phase where you are just doing your single target rotation is where things get dull.
I touched on earlier that this game needs mechanics/encounter design to carry it. It would be great if tanking was really intensive from a defense standpoint so that you don't notice the diminished dps rotation because you're doing a defense rotation too but in this game at least tanking has a lot of lulls where you are not doing much other than your single target rotation because the boss is not using anything dangerous. Hell even on regular mobs you'll pop defensive cooldowns as necessary and that's pretty much the extent of it defense wise. Defensive abilities have such long cooldowns for tanks that having anything resembling a defense rotation is not possible without significant changes to them and what enemies hit you with.
I actually would like it very much if they redesigned tank CDs so that they have signifcantly shorter cooldowns with different/more interesting effects with increased enemy attacks and damage so you're consistently using both damage and defense abilities at the same time.
Would be kind of like a duel/fencing where you're hitting the enemy but at the same time juggling consistent enemy attacks with your defensive moves. The actual tanking damage part of tanking is way too infrequent imo with long ass CDs. This probably isn't going to change though and instead they will double up on dps options while making no changes to how tanks tank things or any changes to encounter/boss design.
It's ever so slightly better with primals/raid fights but that's still mostly because hoops in the fights rather than tanking itself seeing improvements. My filler for this is just narrating the fights.
There's Inner Beast and then their reluctance to ever utilize GCD-gated cooldowns. I'm not sure they'll ever go for a more active mitigation style since it puts the skill floor requirement pretty high when compared to oGCD ones despite it totally being the sort of thing we could use for increased engagement.
Healers are zzz when you're effectively spending 85% of your time in Cleric Stance spamming your filler spells.
It's probably the #1 reason that's turning me off raid healing at this point, I'm just so tired of the gameplay.
Healer optimization this tier: "So how do we get you to heal for the most without actually casting a heal."
VanillaCakeIsBurning
Member
Healers are zzz when you're effectively spending 85% of your time in Cleric Stance spamming your filler spells.
It's probably the #1 reason that's turning me off raid healing at this point, I'm just so tired of the gameplay.
I find healing fun when you're struggling to keep everyone alive but when you're doing stuff when people are taking low damage and you're just spamming your rotation for long periods of time to be quite boring.
A lot of this stuff is just how they design encounters to hit for damage + better gear making this more pronounced. Maybe horizontal gear progression wouldn't be a bad idea if meant that difficulty doesn't get completely invalidated over time.
I think this affects tanks and healers more than DPS because what tanks and healers do depends on what kind of damage is being put out.
More healing spells with cooldowns (5-10s) instead of situational 60-90s buffs.
Laid back but actual DPS rotation to fill the downtime.
No 1-2-3 bullshit. Give spells cooldowns.
FFXIV needs to be a lot more generous with its midrange cooldowns. All the spells are either cooldownless or get used once every 60 seconds. Astrologian is actually interesting because i'm weaving Yu-Gi-Oh in between my heals.
And get rid of Cleric Stance already and allow healers to DPS whenever so they can get actual spells without putting everyone at jeopardy because of the dead zone.
Laid back but actual DPS rotation to fill the downtime.
No 1-2-3 bullshit. Give spells cooldowns.
FFXIV needs to be a lot more generous with its midrange cooldowns. All the spells are either cooldownless or get used once every 60 seconds. Astrologian is actually interesting because i'm weaving Yu-Gi-Oh in between my heals.
And get rid of Cleric Stance already and allow healers to DPS whenever so they can get actual spells without putting everyone at jeopardy because of the dead zone.
VanillaCakeIsBurning
Member
Here's a simple way to add something interesting to PLD.
Give them a single low cooldown offGCD move that changes depending on what part of your combo you are at.
So use Fast Blade then this new move and you get one thing.
Use Savage Blade then this new move and you get something different.
Use Riot Blade then this new move and you get something different.
That's 3 new moves with just one button press. It doesn't complicate things with a handful of more buttons to juggle but gives you something to think about when you are doing your GCD combos. You could add more new moves if you include the combo finishers if you want more.
Will they do this? Probably not.
Give them a single low cooldown offGCD move that changes depending on what part of your combo you are at.
So use Fast Blade then this new move and you get one thing.
Use Savage Blade then this new move and you get something different.
Use Riot Blade then this new move and you get something different.
That's 3 new moves with just one button press. It doesn't complicate things with a handful of more buttons to juggle but gives you something to think about when you are doing your GCD combos. You could add more new moves if you include the combo finishers if you want more.
Will they do this? Probably not.
I come by for your salt. It sustains me.
Lunafreya Nox Fleuret
Member
Will they answer why diadem i280 weapons are a thing? Let's find out... xD
VanillaCakeIsBurning
Member
first thing he said was mentioning the i280 weapon lol
davidpdong
Member
This isn't selling me on diadem tho...
well uh.. she definitely matured from her 1.0 days .
My issue with her character, is that every time I saw her i want
" When did this FF10 character just waltz in" everytime I saw her " why do you look like you were ripped from ff10 and brought here"
Lunafreya Nox Fleuret
Member
So in a nutshell
-It is lottery based
-I275 anima is still the best weapon.
Why does the stats on the 280 have + 3 damage then? C'mon, Yoshida!
CS STAYING WOO
-It is lottery based
-I275 anima is still the best weapon.
Why does the stats on the 280 have + 3 damage then? C'mon, Yoshida!
CS STAYING WOO
AuthenticM
Member
If you're trying to do any harder version of existing trials, I would suggest putting up a party finder and doing it unsynced. No one wants to do old trials synced any more. Also put in the comments that they will get a bonus. Your party will fill up pretty quickly that way.
"We're not removing Cleric Stance." Well that settles it.
Content officially isn't tuned with healer DPS in mind. It isn't tuned with healer heals in mind either so I guess it's okay to bunnyhop.
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