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Final Fantasy XIV: Heavensward |OT2| RIP Bowmage 2015-2017.

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mre

Golden Domers are chickenshit!!
May 19, 2006
30,263
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1,590
Man, seems like WHM got hosed with this update. :\

Time to main AST or SCH, I guess.
Not just this, but stacks of Confession need to proc off any GCD heal if they're going to proc randomly. They only last 30s, are only triggered by single target GCDs and you don't get healed if you have no stack whenever WHM uses Plenary Indulgence.

WHM should also gain lilies over time if they want their mechanic to feel like a mechanic, because currently they only proc with single target healing GCDs, which means it takes 15 ST heals on average to fill your lilies.

This is absurd, who the hell randomly single target heals each and every one of their DPS in like, any situation? Whoever decided to tie every new WHM mechanic to Cure 1 and Cure 2 must be absolute garbage at the game. They clearly don't understand how healing works in FF14.
All of this.
 

rubius01

Member
May 26, 2012
1,178
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Allof these new skills makes me think we are going to see a bunch of T4/A2's with tethers all over the place
 

Mysterious Ryan

Neo Member
Aug 18, 2013
50
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290
United Kingdom

10/10
 

Thorgal

Member
Jan 23, 2013
9,396
0
0
wherever i hang my controller
Reddit Is coming up with some ridiculous numbers for samurai :

Midare Setsugekka = 720 potency
Hissatsu Kaiten= Increase next weaponskill potency by 150%
Slashing debuff + 10%
Self dmg buff 15%
Hissatsu Guren is an OGcd. Build 70 kenki.
Hissatsu Kaiten -> Midare Setsugekka + Hissatsu Guren = ~3000 potency in one GCD+OGCD


that's not even including buffs like AST Balance but by itself that would mean doing more damage then a LB1 wich is 2400potency .
 

Stone Ocean

Member
May 27, 2013
31,205
3
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Thinking about it, Passage of Arms might have some cool raid uses like having 100% block chance vs multi hitting busters, busters back to back or for extra mitigation in any stacking mechanics that the PLD needs to take part in.
 

iammeiam

Member
Dec 28, 2006
10,664
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Yeah, like they aren't getting anything flashy, but there's stuff there for people who can currently play the class well to push it further in Stormblood. It's an expansion of how the class currently works, while simplifying some things like Enochian management (as it's just a battle stance now) but maintaining Umbral Fire/Ice gives you access to the new spell, and stuff like Leylines teleport and triplecast will make the great BLMs greater, as well as the stuff like the change to Surecast making it do what it probably should of always done.

Dragoon is the same way, where Geirskogul now no longer reduces the BOTD timer, and high-level play will be about maximizing usage during B4Bs and later Nastrond optimization, assuming you can keep refreshing the red gauge.

The thing with BLM isn't so much that they're bad at class fantasy--the WHM changes are I guess awesome if you just want to be a pure overheal healbomber regardless of whether or not the content warrants it or if you'd be more productive on something else--it's that they remain not particularly useful team players. It's the problem monk faced in Creator and it sounds like SAM will face.

It's not a problem DRG has because lolDisembowel. When allocating DPS slots, bringing a DRG will benefit the rest of the party and superbenefit a ranged. Bringing a BLM over any other caster benefits nobody but the BLM.

It will work, but given the Huge Deal they made out of trying to fix synergy problems, they... really kind of left some jobs out in the cold.
 

studyguy

Member
Jun 10, 2013
20,605
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0
Reddit Is coming up with some ridiculous numbers for samurai :

Midare Setsugekka = 720 potency
Hissatsu Kaiten= Increase next weaponskill potency by 150%
Slashing debuff + 10%
Self dmg buff 15%
Hissatsu Guren is an OGcd. Build 70 kenki.
Hissatsu Kaiten -> Midare Setsugekka + Hissatsu Guren = ~3000 potency in one GCD+OGCD


that's not even including buffs like AST Balance but by itself that would mean doing more damage then a LB1 wich is 2400potency .

"What's utility I'm stroking my dick here?"
 

scy

Member
Jul 20, 2007
24,493
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900
College Station, Tx
Saw 'The Blackest Night" and thought it was gonna be some crazy 800 potency shit or something. Nope, just a decent shield lol

So I guess this means no more Popping dark arts in advance for SE I.e. before Syphon strike? Now we'll HAVE to pop DA before SE. That could be annoying for weaving, especially with blood weapon. Still, being able to DA SS for that damage is gonna be extra juicy in situations where MP is plentiful.

We still got Blood Price, yeah? Difficult to browse at work but I'm assuming thats the case. Might drop DRK if not.

For what it's worth here, you can Dark Arts either SS or SE and it'll be the same thing in the end if you were only DAing one of the two hits anyway. +140 potency from DA activation in both cases. So it's mostly just a +20 potency gain to in all situations and a potential extra +140 on top if you DA both of the hits.

And Blood Weapon was lowered to a 40s cooldown to match Blood Price with Delirium as a 120s cooldown that costs 50 Blood Gauge to extend their duration by 8 or 16 seconds respectively; Blood Weapon also adds +3 BG per attack/WS and Blood Price is a flat +5 addition.
 

studyguy

Member
Jun 10, 2013
20,605
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i am really starting to believe that SAM might be what Monk was supposed to be in 3.0 :

A DPS with Zero party buffs yet making up for that with RIDICULOUS damage .

I mean XI SAM basically was his own skilchain party so... time to bring the same design philosophy back.
 

AlphaDragoon

Member
Apr 19, 2011
4,021
0
0
Phoenix, AZ
Reddit Is coming up with some ridiculous numbers for samurai :

Midare Setsugekka = 720 potency
Hissatsu Kaiten= Increase next weaponskill potency by 150%
Slashing debuff + 10%
Self dmg buff 15%
Hissatsu Guren is an OGcd. Build 70 kenki.
Hissatsu Kaiten -> Midare Setsugekka + Hissatsu Guren = ~3000 potency in one GCD+OGCD


that's not even including buffs like AST Balance but by itself that would mean doing more damage then a LB1 wich is 2400potency .

Yup. Mwahahaha.
 

Stone Ocean

Member
May 27, 2013
31,205
3
0
Yeah but can SAM use a 250 potency attack every couple minutes if the RNG allows it?

Didn't think so

MNK is basically the Wondrous Tails of DPS jobs now
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
Oct 10, 2006
58,446
0
1,495
The real question is, are we going to get more Bleach macros, or Overwatch macros for SAM?
 

AlphaDragoon

Member
Apr 19, 2011
4,021
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0
Phoenix, AZ
Not only that, but SAM also looks to be an AoE machine.

Edit: Damn, now I'm terribly hyped.

800 potency AoE. 800. Holy shit.

How long until SAM gets nerfed into the ground?

Hopefully never because they have no utility and will be like Heavensward Monk if they do.

The real question is, are we going to get more Bleach macros, or Overwatch macros for SAM?

No macros for me because I won't be able to see the text over all the giant numbers on the screen.
 

LordKasual

Banned
Jul 28, 2016
5,702
1,303
495
Thank you MTQcapture, you are the bestest.

After looking at most of the class changes:

BRD = Looks extremely interesting now, i'm probably going to main BRD again coming back into Stormblood.

BLM = They're probably about to be the undisputed AoE kings once again. Traded some of Fire IV's potency for reliability, which i'm all good with. Cannot wait to see the Flare + Umbral Heart + Triplecast + Manashare gimmicks

PLD = Based YoshiP. It sounds like i'm finally going to actually have fun playing PLD now. Thank you <3

DRK = What little AoE was there was nerfed to the ground, but Off-Tank damage is gonna be reaaaally good now

WAR = PENTACLEAVE

MCH = Dont know much about it, but it looks interesting with the new Gauss mechanic

WHM = Going to probably be the most reliable healers for sure. New potencies are insane.

NIN = Dat burst damage at lv 70 is going to be crazy baby. 720 crit +720 Raiton!

Questionable classes....

DRG = What. The fuck. Are those buffs????????????????

MNK = They LOOK like they got nerfed, but it's really too early to tell with all the new mechanics.

SMN = They seem to have been nerfed too, but since we dont know what their pets are looking like, they're probably fine. Akh Morn looks STUPID powerful.

AST = A great class is even more great, dunno why they got buffed so much


REALLY questionable classes.....


SAM =
 

wamberz1

Member
Sep 19, 2013
4,613
0
0
For what it's worth here, you can Dark Arts either SS or SE and it'll be the same thing in the end if you were only DAing one of the two hits anyway. +140 potency from DA activation in both cases. So it's mostly just a +20 potency gain to in all situations and a potential extra +140 on top if you DA both of the hits.

And Blood Weapon was lowered to a 40s cooldown to match Blood Price with Delirium as a 120s cooldown that costs 50 Blood Gauge to extend their duration by 8 or 16 seconds respectively; Blood Weapon also adds +3 BG per attack/WS and Blood Price is a flat +5 addition.
Good point, I can't math.

Just saw the video and BP can only be used with grit on now? Not sure how I feel about that. With that + the fact that bloodspiller's potency boosts in grit to make up for the damage loss I wonder if we will start seeing DRK dropping grit way less often.

Man, I'm really bummed that BP is gonna be grit-only now. I enjoyed picking up adds as OT and just letting my MP skyrocket. Still not a deal breaker.
 

Omnicent

Member
Jul 24, 2006
9,282
1
0
Louisiana
Reddit Is coming up with some ridiculous numbers for samurai :

Midare Setsugekka = 720 potency
Hissatsu Kaiten= Increase next weaponskill potency by 150%
Slashing debuff + 10%
Self dmg buff 15%
Hissatsu Guren is an OGcd. Build 70 kenki.
Hissatsu Kaiten -> Midare Setsugekka + Hissatsu Guren = ~3000 potency in one GCD+OGCD


that's not even including buffs like AST Balance but by itself that would mean doing more damage then a LB1 wich is 2400potency .
Kaiten is a x1.5 mult and not x2.5, so its around 2.3k potency total.
You can watch the SAM vids, note non crit WS (and buffs) and note the same WS+buffs under kaiten. It's no where close to being x2.5.
I was hyped too, but a little bit less now. Still 1k+ potency WS, just not as bonkers as previouslt assumed.
I must admit I rolled my eyes at the guy on reddit saying the tooltip is wrong earlier, but after watching some videos and taking numbers I am starting to agree.

Need more people to go through the videos and not just go off the tooltips before we can say 100% (or wait till EA on the 16th).
 

studyguy

Member
Jun 10, 2013
20,605
0
0
The use of Grit for BP def took me by surprise. I assumed they were basically all in on DRK stays out of Grit as long as possible and would toss Grit its own few skills.
 

LordKasual

Banned
Jul 28, 2016
5,702
1,303
495
After looking over all of the classes

Yeah, i'm thinking that Monk is going to be the new 3.0 Release BRD


I mean, FFS they are almost literally doing the same thing to MNK 4.0 that they did to BRD in 3.0.

The crux of their DPS increase is probably going to come from a new stance that buffs their power, but nerfs their speed.


Not to mention, Forbidden Chakra's potency nerf is INSANE. I guess it's supposed to offset the fact that you will actually be using it in 4.0...but 30% chance proc that relies on Critical Chance proc that needs to happen 5 times before it becomes useful?

eeeegh. Lookin' rough.
 

Eldren

Member
Jul 25, 2013
1,336
0
0
I still can't get over that Bane nerf, what on earth convinced the dev team that was a sensible idea. 1 fewer DOT than before, massive nerf to Bane, Fester lost 100 potency, Ruin 3 lost 50 potency, Ruin 4 is completely based on random procs, no Blizzard 2, Akh Morn has damage reduced depending on number of mobs. And on top of all that, fucking Tri Bind still exists unchanged.

Hopefully Yoshi and his team are looking at reactions to these numbers and taking feedback on board.
 

Squishy3

Member
Sep 1, 2013
12,113
0
465
The thing with BLM isn't so much that they're bad at class fantasy--the WHM changes are I guess awesome if you just want to be a pure overheal healbomber regardless of whether or not the content warrants it or if you'd be more productive on something else--it's that they remain not particularly useful team players. It's the problem monk faced in Creator and it sounds like SAM will face.

It's not a problem DRG has because lolDisembowel. When allocating DPS slots, bringing a DRG will benefit the rest of the party and superbenefit a ranged. Bringing a BLM over any other caster benefits nobody but the BLM.

It will work, but given the Huge Deal they made out of trying to fix synergy problems, they... really kind of left some jobs out in the cold.
Yeah but then at the same time they can also be a mana battery since they have infinite mana with the new mana transfer skill.

It's unlikely to say statics will be recruiting specifically for BLM, but they're not extremely hindering to work around like before.
 

LordKasual

Banned
Jul 28, 2016
5,702
1,303
495
I still can't get over that Bane nerf, what on earth convinced the dev team that was a sensible idea. 1 fewer DOT than before, massive nerf to Bane, Fester lost 100 potency, Ruin 3 lost 50 potency, Ruin 4 is completely based on random procs, no Blizzard 2, Akh Morn has damage reduced depending on number of mobs. And on top of all that, fucking Tri Bind still exists unchanged.

Hopefully Yoshi and his team are looking at reactions to these numbers and taking feedback on board.

I laughed my ass off at that Bane nerf. Holy jesus. Akh Morn's damage reduction should be a given, 680 Potency is pretty fucking strong. Can he use it more than once?

The thing about Summoner that people aren't realizing is that we have not seen any of the Pet actions. And with the potency retooling that's been going on, it's very likely that we're either gonna see:

a) Base attack potency buffs across the board on pets to make up for the loss of a DoT
b) Ridiculous Enkindle potency buffs (my money is on this)

So I wouldn't be concerned about Summoner right now. Every change they've made seems to fall in line with the throughline for Stormblood, which is to streamline the rotation and increase the DPS floor.
 
Sep 11, 2007
26,921
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My experience as SAM in SB:

- Gets SAM to 60 on POTD
- Does quest up to the first MSQ dungeon.
"Oh my god, finally I can play SAM on real content!"
*2 hours of queue*
- Goes back to Tank.
 

Kintaro

Worships the porcelain goddess
Jun 10, 2004
27,926
0
0
I laughed my ass off at that Bane nerf. Holy jesus. Akh Morn's damage reduction should be a given, 680 Potency is pretty fucking strong. Can he use it more than once?

The thing about Summoner that people aren't realizing is that we have not seen any of the Pet actions. And with the potency retooling that's been going on, it's very likely that we're either gonna see:

a) Base attack potency buffs across the board on pets to make up for the loss of a DoT
b) Ridiculous Enkindle potency buffs (my money is on this)

So I wouldn't be concerned about Summoner right now. Every change they've made seems to fall in line with the throughline for Stormblood, which is to streamline the rotation and increase the DPS floor.

If pet actions changed, wouldn't people have noticed these? Or were they not available for preview, which is be weird as hell?
 

wamberz1

Member
Sep 19, 2013
4,613
0
0
wtf scourge is gone? :( That was one of my favorite animations in the game. Hope it gets reused somewhere.

Edit: wowowwow at that darkside buff. If there was still anyone who was turning it off before they sure won't be now.
 

iammeiam

Member
Dec 28, 2006
10,664
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Yeah but then at the same time they can also be a mana battery since they have infinite mana with the new mana transfer skill.

It's unlikely to say statics will be recruiting specifically for BLM, but they're not extremely hindering to work around like before.

BLM's position in ~optimal meta~ is potentially worse than it used to be--if you're going to bring a caster you have two options that boost party damage and can Rez (I think?) or one that... can't.

Like, if they keep targeting Creator everyone is going to be able to raid. BLM's toolkit is setting them up to be really good at the the stuff they were good at before. When you have a four hour live letter hyping up how you've seen the rise of the Optimal Meta and the squeeze it's putting on the playerbase, and that you realize the need to fix synergies, straight up ignoring it for BLM and letting DRG continue to benefit for being the sole method to ranged jobs doing full damage is an underwhelming at best look. The monk change appears to be the scary story we told monks asking for group buffs about how it'd leave them a shell of their former selves. SAM is stepping in to fill the spot Monk vacated.

A lot of this data is still sketchy and they've got time to fix some of it, but on a basic level they really did not do a good job of handling synergy at all.
 

Stone Ocean

Member
May 27, 2013
31,205
3
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BLM's position in ~optimal meta~ is potentially worse than it used to be--if you're going to bring a caster you have two options that boost party damage and can Rez (I think?) or one that... can't.
On top of that, the only unique thing BLMs brought to a fight - Apo - is now avaiable to all casters.

So basically unless BLMs start putting out SAM-level damage or heavy AoE becomes commonplace in fight design - RIP Bane - there's zero reason to even look at BLM when thinking about raid compositions, specially now that Foe's is dead and they no longer have RS.
 

iammeiam

Member
Dec 28, 2006
10,664
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I mean at this point I think we're probably looking at a reality that heavily involves a DRG/BRD/RDM DPS comp with another physical DPS in the last slot. SAM's batshit potencies mean you might be able to get a decently synergistic comp featuring probably the three most hyped DPS jobs heading into expansion.

I am seriously blown away that they didn't address Disembowel at all. They made applying slashing less annoying for Ninjas, but left DRG with "instant base damage boost with constant uptime!" and no self-support versions.

Just lemme sac some ammo for piercing. C'mon guys.
 

QisTopTier

XisBannedTier
Jul 12, 2009
35,665
0
1,035
Lucid Dreams plus Aether Flow on sch is fucking hilarious. Plus the chance to reduce Aether Flow by 10s when you use abilities that use stacks xD Fuck MP management time to go crazy :D
 

EndcatOmega

Unconfirmed Member
Jun 25, 2012
2,947
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I mean at this point I think we're looking at a reality that heavily involves a DRG/BRD/RDM DPS comp with another physical DPS in the last slot.

I am seriously blown away that they didn't address Disembowel at all. They made applying slashing less annoying for Ninjas, but left DRG with "instant base damage boost with constant uptime!" and no self-support versions.

Just lemme sac some ammo for piercing. C'mon guys.

They'll give it to BRD and not MCH and you know it.

To be honest for a while I thought they were straight up getting rid of the resistance debuffs.
 

iammeiam

Member
Dec 28, 2006
10,664
0
0
They'll give it to BRD and not MCH and you know it.

To be honest for a while I thought they were straight up getting rid of the resistance debuffs.

I spent most of last tier doing prog without a DRG. It's primarily annoying because it is impossible to figure out what good damage without Disembowel was supposed to be ("FFLogs give me parses for this fight with no DRGs." And then they all have drgs.)

I have never wanted to punch somebody over the Internet as much as I did any time our NiN had to DE for any reason and bitched about losing like 60 potency. AND THEY ADDRESSED HIS COMPLAINT


It's fine I already offered to give up the physical ranged spot and main BTN. I have zero hype and lots of people have massive bard hype so Godspeed to them.
 
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