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[grimmiq]

How the hell do I get into Formouth Garrison? Finished the game a couple of days ago, got the quest to pop up for it, but the door is shut and there are no enemies outside.

 

[Slater]

I feel bad for Kags, it's amazing how enticing the Versus stuff was, to the point people can have such emotional reactions to not getting it, even though we never really knew what "it" was. Anyone who was enraptured by those moments is never going to be able to judge XV on its own. Not really, ten years of hope and hype doesn't just go away, it's always in the back of the mind at least.

I feel bitter and nostalgic to even though I liked a lot of what we got.

 

[sappyday]

How the hell do I get into Fermouth Garrison? Finished the game a couple of days ago, got the quest to pop up for it, but the door is shut and there are no enemies outside.

Is it nighttime?

 

[grimmiq]

Is it nighttime?

Nope, didn't think of trying that.

 

[Ishida]

Anyone who was enraptured by those moments is never going to be able to judge XV on its own. .

Not true at all.

I was "enraptured" by what I saw of Versus and fell in love with those trailers and concepts. Versus was my most awaited game since 2006, by far. And I'm still able to keep a cool head and judge XV by itself. No problem.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

I feel bad for Kags, it's amazing how enticing the Versus stuff was, to the point people can have such emotional reactions to not getting it, even though we never really knew what "it" was. Anyone who was enraptured by those moments is never going to be able to judge XV on its own. Not really, ten years of hope and hype doesn't just go away, it's always in the back of the mind at least.

I feel bitter and nostalgic to even though I liked a lot of what we got.

I think XV is a letdown on many levels, even without knowing that Versus was ever a "thing."

 

[DarkLordMalik]

Is it nighttime?

It doesn't require nighttime. He just needs to climb to the watch tower next to the base.

 

[Slater]

Not true at all.

I was "enraptured" by what I saw of Versus and fell in love with those trailers and concepts. Versus was my most awaited game since 2006, by far. And I'm still able to keep a cool head and judge XV by itself. No problem.

That's fair and I like the game to, I'm not saying people who fell in love with Versus will automatically hate XV, just that I don't really believe many are going to be able to not have "what could have been" simmering in the back of ther head

 

[DKHF]

Nomura and Nojima not being credited just adds to my pain.

Not sure if you saw but they both appear in the third set of credits (that you can click from the main menu after the new FFXV logo appears), Nojima for "original story plot" and Nomura for lyrics, original concept and character design (as we have seen him be credited for in the past).

 

[Via Purifico]

Holy crap, what the garbage story it turned out to be. So many forced emotional plots with no build up.

Ignis goes blind for no reason. Gladio keeps bitching at you about it like I was supposed to feel sorry for this sudden blindness out of nowhere.

Prompto is one of those robot zombie monsters for no reason. "Oh, okay, you're one of THOSE dudes. Whatever"

"I'm Luna and I want to help Noctis!" Gets stabbed out of nowhere. It's like they wanted to recreate Aeris's death, except you played dozens of hours with Aeris and didn't have enough time to know about Luna.

And as much as people like the first few chapters of bro-ing out, I think it worked against the main story. Your dad died, your fiance is dead or missing, your home city is destroyed, and you go camping, fishing, and taking souvenir photos. I was so emotionally detached from the main story because of it.

Yeah, I did not care for chapter 10 at all from a narrative standpoint.

Gladio was laying on being an ass thick, instead of adding some emotional weight like intended they just made him really unlikable throughout most of the chapter.

Noctis who has the weight of the world on his shoulders and lost both his father and Luna Gladio is all like "but Ignis has it worse off than you cause he's blinded by running off to battle offscreen. Feel sorry for him"

Noctis and Gladio being passive aggressive to each other was annoying too. The funny part is they just seemed to get over their issues and never speak of their fight.

Don't get me started on the segment when Noctis attacks Prompto and it's never brought up.

 

[Ishida]

That's fair and I like the game to, I'm not saying people who fell in love with Versus will automatically hate XV, just that I don't really believe many are going to be able to not have "what could have been" simmering in the back of ther head

Sadly, that "what could've been" is mostly imagination and fan fiction, though.

 

[Slater]

I think XV is a letdown on many levels, even without knowing that Versus was ever a "thing."

So do I, but I don't think anyone would be having an emotional breakdown over Insomnia if they didn't have an attachment to what it once was.

 

[DarkLordMalik]

That's fair and I like the game to, I'm not saying people who fell in love with Versus will automatically hate XV, just that I don't really believe many are going to be able to not have "what could have been" simmering in the back of ther head

If you go through this thread, a lot of people go through this exact same reaction.

It is hard to let it go, and I can understand it. It is also equal parts as frustrating to hear though, because the world and characters portrayed by the trailers could be merely fan fiction. It could have also been cut all the way like it happened with FFXV.

Remember how the earlier FFXV trailers showed story sequences in the Dawn trailer that never happened. The same could have happened with a hypothetical Versus XIII. If we simply go by the uncovered trailer, it portrayed a story that looked to be feature complete but it didn't seem to be the case for the final game.


The moral of the story is to stop getting hyped over promotional trailers, and especially for the ones that are vaporware.

 

[Slater]

If you go through this thread, a lot of people go through this exact same reaction.

It is hard to let it go, and I can understand it. It is also equal parts as frustrating to hear though, because the world and characters portrayed by the trailers could be merely fan fiction. It could have also been cut all the way like it happened with FFXV.

Remember how the earlier FFXV trailers showed story sequences in the Dawn trailer that never happened. The same could have happened with a hypothetical Versus XIII. If we simply go by the uncovered trailer, it portrayed a story that looked to be feature complete but it didn't seem to be the case for the final game.


The moral of the story is to stop getting hyped over promotional trailers, and especially for the ones that are vaporware.

As of right now I'm more sad that a lot of Tabatas own stuff, that wasn't attached to Versus got cut. Like I don't think we really got even his version.

 

[NoctisVsStar]

As of right now I'm more sad that a lot of Tabatas own stuff, that wasn't attached to Versus got cut. Like I don't think we really got even his version.

We got nothing from Tabata or Nomura. It is what it is.. I followed this for 10 years and despite whatever feelings I might I have.. sadly I'm sort of happy with what we got.

 

[DarkLordMalik]

As of right now I'm more sad that a lot of Tabatas own stuff, that wasn't attached to Versus got cut. Like I don't think we really got even his version.

Same for me. The game needed 1 year more atleast to get all the stuff in. They just made the open world and polished the gameplay.

We got nothing from Tabata or Nomura. It is what it is.. I followed this for 10 years and despite whatever feelings I might I have.. sadly I'm sort of happy with what we got.

What didn't we get from Tabata? The ending is his trademark FF ending

P.S Completely agreed that it was worth it for me. I loved it despite its flaws and I am NOT beating myself over what it could've been.

 

[Slater]

We got nothing from Tabata and nomura

Mhm tho, I am glad they'll both be free of this fucking albatross soon, one way or the other. In curious what Tabs and BD2 will be able to do with that new IP, complete freedom and no attachment to FF

And I do like the game, I just know years from now I'm gonna go back to the versus stuff and sigh wistfully more then once

 

[Via Purifico]

I think Square was over it by the time it was re-revealed as XV and told Tabata to get it done and don't care how and to just do it.

A lot of stuff feels incomplete and in turn feels like neither director got what they really wanted out of this.

 

[Slater]

I think Square was over it by the time it was re-revealed as XV and told Tabata to get it done and don't care how and to just do it.

A lot of stuff feels incomplete and in turn feels like neither director got what they really wanted out of this.

I would bet hard cash that Tabata never wanted to be handed XV in the first place. I think Type Next/the new Ip was always what he actually wanted, but he got thrown into the fire and told to fix it.

Oh well, at least BD2 got a lot of expirence out of it, just hope it translates to the next project

 

[DarkLordMalik]

I think Square was over it by the time it was re-revealed as XV and told Tabata to get it done and don't care how and to just do it.

A lot of stuff feels incomplete and in turn feels like neither director got what they really wanted out of this.

I feel bad for Tabata because of how the majority of the blame is being put on him.

He already said a while ago (as back as 2015) that they release date was set for the game and right now, they wouldn't announce it because they wanted to make sure it was possible to hit it. As we saw, a lot of the game was rushed in order to fit the release date and there are narratives and story to the game that are like completely cut. It feels like an unfinished cut of a film at times.

All of this is sad to consider but then when I think about it, I realize that majority of my game time was spent doing the exploration and side content which I loved a lot. I already accepted the story wouldn't be as good and that was the case, although the ending redeemed a lot of it for me.

 

[Via Purifico]

I would bet hard cash that Tabata never wanted to be handed XV in the first place. I think Type Next/the new Ip was always what he actually wanted, but he got thrown into the fire and told to fix it.

Oh well, at least BD2 got a lot of expirence out of it, just hope it translates to the next project

I feel bad for Tabata because of how the majority of the blame is being put on him.

He already said a while ago (as back as 2015) that they release date was set for the game and right now, they wouldn't announce it because they wanted to make sure it was possible to hit it. As we saw, a lot of the game was rushed in order to fit the release date and there are narratives and story to the game that are like completely cut. It feels like an unfinished cut of a film at times.

All of this is sad to consider but then when I think about it, I realize that majority of my game time was spent doing the exploration and side content which I loved a lot. I already accepted the story wouldn't be as good and that was the case, although the ending redeemed a lot of it for me.

Literally thrown to the wolves and was told "fix it" yikes. I especially felt bad for him during the delay announcement video, he looked so beaten and tired.

If this PC port happens he needs to just leave it as is other than fixing some bugs and not even bother with his vision for a "high end" version. He deserves to wipe his hands clean and work on his own games as well as much needed rest cause goddamn those bags.

I can't blame Square being against the idea of dealing with XIII saga part 2 where an entire gen was wasted on one universe. Trying to condense a trilogy to one story sounds like a nightmare.

 

[DarkLordMalik]

Literally thrown to the wolves and was told "fix it" yikes. I especially felt bad for him during the delay announcement video, he looked so beaten and tired.

If this PC port happens he needs to just leave it as is other than fixing some bugs and not even bother with his vision for a "high end" version. He deserves to wipe his hands clean and work on his own games as well as much needed rest cause goddamn those bags.

I can't blame Square being against the idea of dealing with XIII saga part 2 where an entire gen was wasted on one universe. Trying to condense a trilogy to one story sounds like a nightmare.

The positive side here is that Tabata learned how to manage a big team (300+) and get out a game in the deadline as intended. They are also the only development team at SE that have experience with working on Luminous Engine Pro and shipping a game with it. The game's release was technically nothing short of miracle and this is something that will be talked about for years to come.

 

[Via Purifico]

The positive side here is that Tabata learned how to manage a big team (300+) and get out a game in the deadline as intended. They are also the only development team at SE that have experience with working on Luminous Engine Pro and shipping a game with it. The game's release was technically nothing short of miracle and this is something that will be talked about for years to come.

Yeah if anything this was a learning experience and will surely influence how he creates Type-1

 

[WaterAstro]

A lot of the core Versus staff who initially started the 15 project left early on. Its been almost 3 years since the actual exodus and around 2.5 years since we first heard news about it, most notably about Nomura and Nojima leaving the project.( but also jun akiyama )

Well it shows how much it has changed.

Regis was younger, which already means that a lot would change. Using the ring kills the user, and that's why Regis looked old and dead, but a healthier Regis probably means that plot device didn't exist in Nojima's scenario. It also means that Noctis sacrificing himself probably wasn't going to happen in Nojima's scenario, and I would venture that Luna/Stella wasn't going to die either.

Also, early trailers had Noctis and gang fighting in Crown City in day and night, which means they were probably defending Crown City during Kingsglaive in the original scenario.

 

[TriAceJP]

Just cashed in 450k xp at 3x. Everyone is 97 except Noct who is 98. Gonna finish up the game tomorrow.


It starts getting dark in Lucis before you leave too, I noticed it while doing quests and hunts before I left for Altissia.

How in the world did you level that high? I got to 47 chapter 8, got bored of the side quests and just finished it.

Every monster was either too weak to bother grinding or too damn tough where they would one shot me.

 

[Illucio]

I feel bad for Tabata because of how the majority of the blame is being put on him.

He already said a while ago (as back as 2015) that they release date was set for the game and right now, they wouldn't announce it because they wanted to make sure it was possible to hit it. As we saw, a lot of the game was rushed in order to fit the release date and there are narratives and story to the game that are like completely cut. It feels like an unfinished cut of a film at times.

All of this is sad to consider but then when I think about it, I realize that majority of my game time was spent doing the exploration and side content which I loved a lot. I already accepted the story wouldn't be as good and that was the case, although the ending redeemed a lot of it for me.

I feel like DLC can fix the narrative parts of the game, they made a huge world where they can easily put Witcher 3 like content into it. Who knows maybe we can even get a Stella or expansions to the story.

I just left the volcano area, exploring it out of curiosity at chapter 8. Saw a huge field perfect for a boss fight with some huge ass flying griffon, but there was nothing there. Picked up my kings weapon and left. :/ Like was it cut? Is it still in the game? I'll never know.

 

[Via Purifico]

I think it's hard to say if Stella would have lived or not especially since she was to do battle with Noctis all we can do is guess with that.

So much of the meat of the original script is missing and will most likely never see the light of day. I do wonder how the invasion was handled there though, we know the crew is fighting their way through the city but were they surprised by this attack and trying to flee? or were they standing their ground in Insomnia?.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

Lol, I just spent the last two hours thinking about the game and in my pent-up frustration ended up penning a 2,500+ word critique of the game.

I'll read it over in the morning to see if it makes sense still once I have a clearer head, and if it does, I'll share it here.

So do I, but I don't think anyone would be having an emotional breakdown over Insomnia if they didn't have an attachment to what it once was.

That's true.

I'm not having any kind of deep emotional reaction here besides honest frustration and disappointment. And I think that's something a lot of people might end up with.

 

[DarkLordMalik]

I feel like DLC can fix the narrative parts of the game, they made a huge world where they can easily put Witcher 3 like content into it. Who knows maybe we can even get a Stella or expansions to the story.

I just left the volcano area, exploring it out of curiosity at chapter 8. Saw a huge field perfect for a boss fight with some huge ass flying griffon, but there was nothing there. Picked up my kings weapon and left. :/ Like was it cut? Is it still in the game? I'll never know.

Actually that area is reserved for a level 70 hunt of the Zuu, the mother of the eggs.

 

[ULTROS!]

So the entire game was bittersweet, not just the ending. There were many problems like the lack of story being an incredible mixed bag, Chapter 13, and lack of characterization for a lot of characters. But in the end, the game is fun and immersive.

Well personally I like it more than XIII. You don't do anything in XIII besides battle (even the quests are battles). So content is incredibly lacking in XIII.

The major issue with this game is the hype worth 10 years. It has a lot of expectations what it should be.

 

[Mifec]

How in the world did you level that high? I got to 47 chapter 8, got bored of the side quests and just finished it.

Every monster was either too weak to bother grinding or too damn tough where they would one shot me.

I did sidequests and hunts then used galdin quay a few times for 2x xp then altissia for 3x xp 2 times and that's that. I was over level 70 when I went to fight Leviathan.

I feel like DLC can fix the narrative parts of the game, they made a huge world where they can easily put Witcher 3 like content into it. Who knows maybe we can even get a Stella or expansions to the story.

I just left the volcano area, exploring it out of curiosity at chapter 8. Saw a huge field perfect for a boss fight with some huge ass flying griffon, but there was nothing there. Picked up my kings weapon and left. :/ Like was it cut? Is it still in the game? I'll never know.

You just get a Zu fight later on there, the fight is dogshit btw because it's too big and does nothing.

 

[DarkLordMalik]

So the entire game was bittersweet, not just the ending. There were many problems like the lack of story being an incredible mixed bag, Chapter 13, and lack of characterization for a lot of characters. But in the end, the game is fun and immersive.

Well personally I like it more than XIII. You don't do anything in XIII besides battle (even the quests are battles). So content is incredibly lacking in XIII.

I think the main cast of characters and the villain are given enough exposure and fleshed out but at the expense of almost every side character.

 

[Via Purifico]

Insomnia definitely deserved more than some extremely linear setpiece used for a boss battle.

Of course the city is way too huge to render all of it and it's just unrealistic but more could have been done.

 

[Illucio]

Literally thrown to the wolves and was told "fix it" yikes. I especially felt bad for him during the delay announcement video, he looked so beaten and tired.

If this PC port happens he needs to just leave it as is other than fixing some bugs and not even bother with his vision for a "high end" version. He deserves to wipe his hands clean and work on his own games as well as much needed rest cause goddamn those bags.

I can't blame Square being against the idea of dealing with XIII saga part 2 where an entire gen was wasted on one universe. Trying to condense a trilogy to one story sounds like a nightmare.

What the vision was for the trilogy, I imagine something along these lines:

Part 1: Introducing Noctis and gang going around doing mission. Noctis goes to dinner party and meets Stella his bride to be. Other kingdom attacks Insomia, Stella goes against Noctis in favor of her kingdom, but genuinely falls in love with him throughout the game, struggles with wanting to do what she think is best for her kingdom. Maybe realizing the soldiers are made from daemons and main villain works have her change her mind later? Part 1 ends with Noctis father dying.

Part 2: Noctis fighting back for his kingdom, getting summons and weapons. Allies with other cities, air ships. All the bad things that happened to his friends. Ending with going to sleep for time skip.

Part 3: Everything similar to the current game except the ending isn't sad, there is more to explore in the future world and you get to see a lot of the people from the past but older.


I see a lot of missing parts in the game or things not entirely fleshed out, and it's hard piecing together where would go where. Part 1 and Part 2 would be the hardest to figure out which goes where. The time skip has Nomura written all over it. Tabata was focusing on the road trip and the super sad ending. That much I can tell.

 

[ULTROS!]

The way I see it:

Part 1 - Dinner party with Luna, invasion of Insomnia, Crystal is captured, Noctis travels around Lucis up to Altissia

What we got: Kingsglaive and Chapter 1-9

Part 2 - Entering Tenebrae and Niflheim, recapture crystal

What we got: Chapter 10-13

Part 3 - World of Ruin and reclamation of Insomnia

What we got: Chapter 14

 

[sappyday]

Oh wow the Florence song plays in the credit on the main menu. Were these the same credits that play at the end of the game? I don't remember seeing it (might have skipped it)

 

[DarkLordMalik]

What the vision was for the trilogy, I imagine something along these lines:

Part 1: Introducing Noctis and gang going around doing mission. Noctis goes to dinner party and meets Stella his bride to be. Other kingdom attacks Insomia, Stella goes against Noctis in favor of her kingdom, but genuinely falls in love with him throughout the game, struggles with wanting to do what she think is best for her kingdom. Maybe realizing the soldiers are made from daemons and main villain works have her change her mind later? Part 1 ends with Noctis father dying.

Part 2: Noctis fighting back for his kingdom, getting summons and weapons. Allies with other cities, air ships. All the bad things that happened to his friends. Ending with going to sleep for time skip.

Part 3: Everything similar to the current game except the ending isn't sad, there is more to explore in the future world and you get to see a lot of the people from the past but older.


I see a lot of missing parts in the game or things not entirely fleshed out, and it's hard piecing together where would go where. Part 1 and Part 2 would be the hardest to figure out which goes where. The time skip has Nomura written all over it. Tabata was focusing on the road trip and the super sad ending. That much I can tell.

This was back in 2013 and pretty much confirms multiple games.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

In complete fairness to Tabata, I think Nomura's grand vision for a trilogy was always begging for a troubled development even if he had been working under optimal conditions, and I have my doubts that he could have fully pulled off the trilogy. Maybe, but we'll never know sadly.

 

[sappyday]

Lol the credits show more of tenebrea


Also the prelude remix plays here so it wasn't completely forgotten

 

[nOoblet16]

I did sidequests and hunts then used galdin quay a few times for 2x xp then altissia for 3x xp 2 times and that's that. I was over level 70 when I went to fight Leviathan.

I get that everyone plays differently and some like to take their time to do everything but imo what you did is detrimental. You are hilariously overlevelled now for the entire main story and nothing will be a challenge for you meaning you'll just find the fight, encounters and even all the dungeons stale.

It's why I always recommend that you tackle a main quest while you are still around the recommended level for it.

So for instance you are level 30 and main quest is 35, you can keep doing side stuff and exploration until you are say 40 but I'd probably recommend you to finish that level 35 main quest before you cross 40. Then repeat this for others until the game ends. Feeling extra powerful and looking down on enemies is kind of why RPGs are fun, but it can backfire at times when your character gets "beaten" in the story by a story character who is low level despite you finishing the fight effortlessly.

 

[nOoblet16]

In complete fairness to Tabata, I think Nomura's grand vision for a trilogy was always begging for a troubled development even if he had been working under optimal conditions, and I have my doubts that he could have fully pulled off the trilogy. Maybe, but we'll never know sadly.

We will...because he couldn't even get to pre production with the "first game".

No point discussing what could have and should have if things were different, it will only affect your feelings about what the game is right now. The fact that they came up with a good game that plays well despite all this shit is nothing short of miraculous.

 

[Grim Patron]

I get that everyone plays differently and some like to take their time to do everything but imo what you did is detrimental. You are hilariously overlevelled now for the entire main story and nothing will be a challenge for you meaning you'll just find the fight, encounters and even all the dungeons stale.

It's why I always recommend that you tackle a main quest while you are still around the recommended level for it.

So for instance you are level 30 and main quest is 35, you can keep doing side stuff and exploration until you are say 40 but I'd probably recommend you to finish that level 35 main quest before you cross 40. Then repeat this for others until the game ends. Feeling extra powerful and looking down on enemies is kind of why RPGs are fun, but it can backfire at times when your character gets "beaten" in the story by a story character who is low level despite you finishing the fight effortlessly.

YEa I did the ±5 level thing for story. WOrked out well.


Just finished. Story was mostly garbage with some high points. mainly liked the interactions between the 4 and the road trip thing. Defo not in my top 5 FF games. Also music is still boring. More thoughts later. Credits rolling now.

 

[hamchan]

Finished the secret platforming hell dungeon. Took me around 2 and a half hours. Some pretty frustrating moments in there.

 

[DarkLordMalik]

We will...because he couldn't even get to pre production with the "first game".

No point discussing what could have and should have if things were different, it will only affect your feelings about what the game is right now. The fact that they came up with a good game that plays well despite all this shit is nothing short of miraculous.

Nomura still has to show if he can deliver under pressure as I don't think SE will give him free hand on releasing FFVII Remake so he is also likely under deadline and it remains to be seen hiw he approaches the Remake.

 

[nOoblet16]

There are two dungeons in this game which are just horrible and boring. First is the sewer which is just as "dungeon" as it gets. The second is that castle dungeon. Thing had a motherfuckin trap in it to take me all the way back to the entrance.

 

[F0rneus]

The one part I don't understand in the plot, is why everybody keeps saying that the Astrals are dead? Like "Oh Leviathan is dead". 5 mins later, she wrecking shit on the train. "Oh there's Shiva's dead body". 2 mins later, there she is, giving you her mark.

I don't get it.

 

[DarkLordMalik]

The one part I don't understand in the plot, is why everybody keeps saying that the Astrals are dead? Like "Oh Leviathan is dead". 5 mins later, she wrecking shit on the train. "Oh there's Shiva's dead body". 2 mins later, there she is, giving you her mark.

I don't get it.

They are immortals so they can't die.

The rest, I don't know :/

 

[F0rneus]

They are immortals so they can't die.

The rest, I don't know :/

Guys on the train, had this super serious talk about how the Empire had killed half the Astrals and I was like "You mean the 3 I can summon...like all the time?" And the loadings screens for Chapter 11 and 12 are all like "Shiva is dead as shit. Never been this dead. Look at that snow. That's how dead she is. Empire killed her. Wham bam. Done."

 

[Mifec]

I get that everyone plays differently and some like to take their time to do everything but imo what you did is detrimental. You are hilariously overlevelled now for the entire main story and nothing will be a challenge for you meaning you'll just find the fight, encounters and even all the dungeons stale.

It's why I always recommend that you tackle a main quest while you are still around the recommended level for it.

So for instance you are level 30 and main quest is 35, you can keep doing side stuff and exploration until you are say 40 but I'd probably recommend you to finish that level 35 main quest before you cross 40. Then repeat this for others until the game ends. Feeling extra powerful and looking down on enemies is kind of why RPGs are fun, but it can backfire at times when your character gets "beaten" in the story by a story character who is low level despite you finishing the fight effortlessly.

I enjoyed Leviathan and Ardyn way more being overleveled than being the level people in streams were. The superpowered sections actually felt superpowered.

Also the story sections didn't really change much when I was overleveled, just went by faster, not like anything in the story looks hard anyway.

 

[DarkLordMalik]

Guys on the train, had this super serious talk about how the Empire had killed half the Astrals and I was like "You mean the 3 I can summon...like all the time?" And the loadings screens for Chapter 11 and 12 are all like "Shiva is dead as shit. Never been this dead. Look at that snow. That's how dead she is. Empire killed her. Wham bam. Done."

I think Shiva being dead was a rumor and she was actually alive at that time, until she gave her mark to Noctis.