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[Mael]

He said he would never go back on abortion rights. Quit the bullshit.

I never trust what any politician say (I don't even really gives a shit most of the time), I trust the crowd they gather and who they work with.
I didn't give a shit that Sarkozy was saying about workers' rights, I trusted the people he worked with who were adamant on making life for the Medef easier however.
I do know about the rumours and this is not what I'm talking about.
He's not clear on the subject and this is inacceptable if he's willing to be ambiguous to gain backward civitas types votes.

Remember that there are 400,000,000 people in Europe and not France, many of whom depend on the EU project for quality of life, dignity, and access to resources they need. And they don't get to vote in the French election, even though it impacts them in a very profound way.

I'll tell you a dirty secret no one will believe :
No one gives a shit about the EU in French elections.
Not even during the European parliamentary ones (these ones serve as a way to tell the current government to eat shit....literally).
The Legislative elections are a fucking sham now since it's right behind the presidential election so the president is always with a majority so there's no real check on the government from the parliament.
The senate is held by the Right and only flipped because Sarkozy cut too deeply in the budgets of local parliamentaries/city halls/etc.
Literally no one had a real program for EU leadership 4 years ago, this isn't going to change.
Not even the FN has a plan to move out of the EU actually, they claim they do but they misquote and the whole thing has more hole than Trump's plan for the border wall (and about as realistic too).
Everyone has a line they draw in the sand, this is mine.
How can we talk about quality of life if we have to force people to risk their lives over bullshit?

 

[Fularu]

This was the exact logic used by many Americans and I can assure you -- they're not equally bad.

You're right, they're both bad for me from an immigration standpoint, Le Pen is better for me from a social stand point, they'Re both good for me from a Syrian standpoint and Fillon is better for me from a European standpoint

In the end, they both suck

 

[Mael]

You're right, they're both bad for me from an immigration standpoint, Le Pen is better for me from a social stand point, they'Re both good for me from a Syrian standpoint and Fillon is better for me from a European standpoint

In the end, they both suck

Woah, I guess you don't know how the FN is used to cutting social services in their towns...
http://www.liberation.fr/france/2014/08/01/mairies-fn-le-pauvre-ne-vaut-pas-le-cout_1074328

 

[Fularu]

Woah, I guess you don't know how the FN is used to cutting social services in their towns...
http://www.liberation.fr/france/2014/08/01/mairies-fn-le-pauvre-ne-vaut-pas-le-cout_1074328

I never said they were good, I just said "better". Better than uter trash is trash

 

[Mael]

I never said they were good, I just said "better". Better than uter trash is trash

I don't think going so far as cutting free meals for children is something the usual Right would do.
I can safely say on that you would have to give examples here.

 

[saturnine]

Why are you only quoting the American example? I know that for us continental Europeans the absence of any welfare state is allegorical hell on earth, but what about Germany if I may ask?
I very much think that to a certain level, a balance was found where there still definitely is a strong welfare state but simultaneously low unemployment. Extremely low youth unemployment I might add. Thinking black and white won't solve any of France's non-imaginary problems, I'm afraid.

Because it's an example I'm familiar with, unlike Germany, and a good look at how a country might end up when they go full neoliberal. From a quick glance, it seems that Germany's poverty rate is higher than France, and inequality has been slowly increasing (while France has been stagnating somehow). Not exactly the results I'd expect from the miracle child of the EU.

Fairytale economics where you ignore the revolutions in industrial development in previously 3rd world countries and keep insisting that everything can be the same. The iron curtain fell, so the huge human potential of Russia got unlocked. They are now exporting nuclear powrplants left and right and gearing up with the Chinese to build wide-haul planes, targeting French strategic exports.
The bamboo curtain also fell so now you have Huawei developing telecom networks in Africa supported by ultra cheap Chinese credit. This would otherwise be done by Alcatel / Ericsson. Also, cheap manufacturing which is a reality.

You can claim that increasing competitivness of an economy destroys the working class. The reality is that Eastern countries would eat Western companies for breakfast if the wages didn't (in real terms) fall during the past three decades. It's simple mathematics.

I'm not ignoring them, but it's too easy to say "get real, this is how the world works" after pulling the globalization card knowing full well it would fuck up the western working class while exploiting ruthlessly the poor people in the third world, with some lucky byproduct for the later (until they're replaced by some poorer folks than them, of course).

And if we're talking commercial realpolitik, what's the plan for when the banking system blows up again in the near future? And what's the plan for when automation and deep learning start destroying more jobs than the industrial revolution? Or when we finally fuck up for good with climate change and end up with a refugee crisis that will make the current one look like an unruly tourist crowd by comparison? I mean, maybe I'm only a dumbass, but I'm not seeing the current brand of capitalism's answers on these ones.

 

[Fularu]

I don't think going so far as cutting free meals for children is something the usual Right would do.
I can safely say on that you would have to give examples here.

http://www.frontnational.com/le-projet-de-marine-le-pen/avenir-de-la-nation/famille/

Half of those plans would fit in a Mélanchon/Macron candidacy/programm

 

[Mael]

http://www.frontnational.com/le-projet-de-marine-le-pen/avenir-de-la-nation/famille/

Half of those plans would fit in a Mélanchon/Macron candidacy/programm

Yeah, it's in the same site where they depict blowing the Eurozone as the thing that will propell France's economy to the level of the US or something.
I trust what they do, not what they say.
e: Just look at the BS they put on the page about Europe!
A program is only as good as its worst propositions, if these propositions are hastily made BS it's safe to assume the rest are in some other less obvious way.

 

[Fularu]

Yeah, it's in the same site where they depict blowing the Eurozone as the thing that will propell France's economy to the level of the US or something.
I trust what they do, not what they say.
e: Just look at the BS they put on the page about Europe!
A program is only as good as its worst propositions, if these propositions are hastily made BS it's safe to assume the rest are in some other less obvious way.

We'Re discussing social prgramms, I already saidd they suck for Europe, you'Re not teaching me anything about their european stance

 

[Mael]

We'Re discussing social prgramms, I already saidd they suck for Europe, you'Re not teaching me anything about their european stance

Their social programs are the shittiest this side of "burning brown people at the stake" based on what they're doing RIGHT NOW.
Are we going to base our opinion on what they will do based on feelgood stories they peddle on their sites or what they're on record for doing?
I know this is supposed to be post truth era but usually shitty trends from the US tend to take longer to get in France.

 

[andythinkpad]

My prediction is whoever has 30% to win in the betting market before election will take it, ala Brexit/Trumpxit.

 

[Franz Brötchen]

Because it's an example I'm familiar with, unlike Germany, and a good look at how a country might end up when they go full neoliberal. From a quick glance, it seems that Germany's poverty rate is higher than France, and inequality has been slowly increasing (while France has been stagnating somehow). Not exactly the results I'd expect from the miracle child of the EU.

The poverty rate thing is highly difficult as you must know since it is always viewed relative. But I'll let you have that one.
But concerning inequality you're just blatantly omitting the fact that France has a worse GINI coefficient than Germany, and this has been the case for decades. The reason being unemployment, of course. If you're idea is to be content with such high unemployment, especially youth unemployment, there you go, France sure is doing everything right. Your unemployed may disagree, but what do those filthy neoliberal know about anything, am I right.

http://www.frontnational.com/le-projet-de-marine-le-pen/avenir-de-la-nation/famille/

Half of those plans would fit in a Mélanchon/Macron candidacy/programm

Do you want National Socialists? Because that's how you get National Socialists.
And historically speaking, workers' conditions don't exactly improve when these guys are in charge, just saying.
Love, Germany

 

[saturnine]

The poverty rate thing is highly difficult as you must know since it is always viewed relative. But I'll let you have that one.
But concerning inequality you're just blatantly omitting the fact that France has a worse GINI coefficient than Germany, and this has been the case for decades. The reason being unemployment, of course. If you're idea is to be content with such high unemployment, especially youth unemployment, there you go, France sure is doing everything right. Your unemployed may disagree, but what do those filthy neoliberal know about anything, am I right.

It has? From looking at the numbers on Wikipedia, France was indeed worse than Germany, but only until the late 2000's. To be fair, I wasn't pointing that out to make it a contest, and you won't see me touting France as a perfect land of equality (our leaders are painfully out of touch with the social and economical realities of the common people). I was just expressing the idea that if Germany was doing that well, and the system was working that well, then maybe there should be something more to show for it.

Anyway, like I said, I'm not well acquainted with Germany's case and I don't want to turn this into a pissing contest. France is certainly not doing everything right, far from it.

 

[Palette Swap]

I never trust what any politician say (I don't even really gives a shit most of the time), I trust the crowd they gather and who they work with.
I didn't give a shit that Sarkozy was saying about workers' rights, I trusted the people he worked with who were adamant on making life for the Medef easier however.
I do know about the rumours and this is not what I'm talking about.
He's not clear on the subject and this is inacceptable if he's willing to be ambiguous to gain backward civitas types votes.



I'll tell you a dirty secret no one will believe :
No one gives a shit about the EU in French elections.
Not even during the European parliamentary ones (these ones serve as a way to tell the current government to eat shit....literally).
The Legislative elections are a fucking sham now since it's right behind the presidential election so the president is always with a majority so there's no real check on the government from the parliament.
The senate is held by the Right and only flipped because Sarkozy cut too deeply in the budgets of local parliamentaries/city halls/etc.
Literally no one had a real program for EU leadership 4 years ago, this isn't going to change.
Not even the FN has a plan to move out of the EU actually, they claim they do but they misquote and the whole thing has more hole than Trump's plan for the border wall (and about as realistic too).
Everyone has a line they draw in the sand, this is mine.
How can we talk about quality of life if we have to force people to risk their lives over bullshit?

Honestly, as much as I get what you're saying, when it comes down to a run off between these two candidates, I'd rather bet against Fillon's ability to execute his direst proposals than against Le Pen's ability to fuck up the EU. i.e. I'd vote Fillon.
Even if he's a garbage person who would never reciprocate the notion of voting for the other side because ia Le Pen presidency could have catastrophic effects on a whole continent.

I'm writing this and my kneejerk reaction was "fuck this guy, I'm sitting this one out", but Le Pen is an even bigger red line for me than Fillon's intolerant neoliberal religious petite bourgeoisie will ever be. I usually lean center right and despise that particular avatar of the French right, but I'll vote them over Le Pen.
Right now, I'd say that the most important part is to make sure that whoever seems the most reasonable/electable choice for you gets to round two.

 

[Mael]

Honestly, as much as I get what you're saying, when it comes down to a run off between these two candidates, I'd rather bet against Fillon's ability to execute his direst proposals than against Le Pen's ability to fuck up the EU. i.e. I'd vote Fillon.
Even if he's a garbage person who would never reciprocate the notion of voting for the other side because ia Le Pen presidency could have catastrophic effects on a whole continent.

I'm writing this and my kneejerk reaction was "fuck this guy, I'm sitting this one out", but Le Pen is an even bigger red line for me than Fillon's intolerant neoliberal religious petite bourgeoisie will ever be. I usually lean center right and despise that particular avatar of the French right, but I'll vote them over Le Pen.
Right now, I'd say that the most important part is to make sure that whoever seems the most reasonable/electable choice for you gets to round two.

Fillon at its worst is absolutely better than the idiots pants on head crap that the FN is peddling.
However there is such a thing as deal breakers, before Veil's law the 1rst hazard to women health was unsanitary abortion.
If they make it even slightly more difficult, it's not going to lead to less abortions, it's only going to lead to more avoidable deaths on a scale that's unacceptable.
I'm not joking when I say that's actually something that's bigger than anything else on their programs.
If Fillon claims that he's going to war with a foreign country for no reason you won't see anyone claim it's ok to vote for him here.
He needs to be absolutely clear and ditch anyone that is even close to even hinting that we should look at making abortion laws more strict.

 

[Palette Swap]

Fillon at its worst is absolutely better than the idiots pants on head crap that the FN is peddling.
However there is such a thing as deal breakers, before Veil's law the 1rst hazard to women health was unsanitary abortion.
If they make it even slightly more difficult, it's not going to lead to less abortions, it's only going to lead to more avoidable deaths on a scale that's unacceptable.
I'm not joking when I say that's actually something that's bigger than anything else on their programs.
If Fillon claims that he's going to war with a foreign country for no reason you won't see anyone claim it's ok to vote for him here.
He needs to be absolutely clear and ditch anyone that is even close to even hinting that we should look at making abortion laws more strict.

I mostly agree with everything you posted and hope he clarifies his position on abortion and his relationship to the anti-choice assholes. I'd hate to have to vote between reproductive rights and fucking up everything else. Then again, even if Marine wouldn't necessarily touch it, her awful niece dreams of getting rid of abortion. So everything else being equal, Fillon is still less terrible.

As an aside on abortion, we're still lacking on that front, as it's a right that isn't perfectly enforceable right now. If a woman is unlucky enough to run into an anti-abortion doctor, never mind several, he can very effectively sidetrack her and make sure she can't get an abortion on time. I'm all for getting rid of that consciousness clause for all new doctors, or at least publicizing widely and transparently who will or won't help a patient who wants an abortion. Touraine helped further accessibility, but that's not going to matter

The most grating part is that these are the same people who govern with religion in mind, but will use secularism when it's convenient against muslims.

 

[Alx]

Fillon at its worst is absolutely better than the idiots pants on head crap that the FN is peddling.
However there is such a thing as deal breakers, before Veil's law the 1rst hazard to women health was unsanitary abortion.
If they make it even slightly more difficult, it's not going to lead to less abortions, it's only going to lead to more avoidable deaths on a scale that's unacceptable.
I'm not joking when I say that's actually something that's bigger than anything else on their programs.
If Fillon claims that he's going to war with a foreign country for no reason you won't see anyone claim it's ok to vote for him here.
He needs to be absolutely clear and ditch anyone that is even close to even hinting that we should look at making abortion laws more strict.

There is zero reason to believe Fillon would change the legislation about abortion. He clearly said so, just as he said he didn't personally support the act. Because his personal beliefs don't make him like it doesn't mean he wants to change the law. That's just plain and simple FUD.

Ca fait trente ans que je suis parlementaire: est-ce qu'une seule fois j'ai pris une position contraire à l'avortement? Une seule fois? Est-ce que vous avez vu une seule fois dans un programme de François Fillon des propos concernant le retour sur la loi Veil? Jamais, voilà

J'ai écrit (dans mon livre) que l'avortement était un droit fondamental. Ce n'est pas ce que je voulais dire. Ce que je voulais dire, c'est que c'est un droit sur lequel personne ne reviendra. Philosophiquement et compte tenu de ma foi personnelle, je ne peux pas approuver l'avortement."

Sounds perfectly clear to me. Even if it isn't in accordance with his faith, he won't touch the Veil law on abortion.

 

[Ether_Snake]

My guess is Le Pen will push hard left on economics and even push the idea that immigrants are conservative on social issues, in order to add the racist and disenfranchised left and center that don't want to vote for the "right", making stronger gains in the 2nd round to win with a slim margin.

 

[Mael]

I mostly agree with everything you posted and hope he clarifies his position on abortion and his relationship to the anti-choice assholes. I'd hate to have to vote between reproductive rights and fucking up everything else. Then again, even if Marine wouldn't necessarily touch it, her awful niece dreams of getting rid of abortion. So everything else being equal, Fillon is still less terrible.

As an aside on abortion, we're still lacking on that front, as it's a right that isn't perfectly enforceable right now. If a woman is unlucky enough to run into an anti-abortion doctor, never mind several, he can very effectively sidetrack her and make sure she can't get an abortion on time. I'm all for getting rid of that consciousness clause for all new doctors, or at least publicizing widely and transparently who will or won't help a patient who wants an abortion. Touraine helped further accessibility, but that's not going to matter

The most grating part is that these are the same people who govern with religion in mind, but will use secularism when it's convenient against muslims.

I don't disagree.
I have said as much that the FN is the absolute worst this country has to offer.
However I will not never support anyone who is not clear on that subject, you are absolutely right that the current situation is already not enough anyway.
I already have little patience for the morons who misuse French's version of separation of church and state and this isn't helping at all.
The Republicans already have shown to have no understanding on the concept and they are making it hard enough to justify any support without having to throw this on top of it.

There is zero reason to believe Fillon would change the legislation about abortion. He clearly said so, just as he said he didn't personally support the act. Because his personal beliefs don't make him like it doesn't mean he wants to change the law. That's just plain and simple FUD.




Sounds perfectly clear to me. Even if it isn't in accordance with his faith, he won't touch the Veil law on abortion.

I have ZERO reason to believe anything he says on the matter :
http://www.lejdd.fr/Politique/Avortement-Fillon-cultive-l-ambiguite-et-relance-la-polemique-826993

"Jamais personne, et certainement pas moi, ne reviendra sur l'avortement. Je n'ai pas à m'expliquer sur mes convictions religieuses. Je suis capable de faire une différence entre ces convictions et l'intérêt général. Je considère que l'intérêt général, ce n'est pas de rouvrir ce débat", avait-il déclaré lors de l'Emission politique de France 2 le 27 octobre. En déplacement à Viry-Châtillon mardi, le député de Paris est resté sur la même ligne, en réponse aux attaques d'Alain Juppé : "Est-ce qu'une seule fois j'ai pris une position contraire à l'avortement? (...) Que la campagne reprenne sa dignité et qu'on cesse les polémiques qui sont inqualifiables et qui, franchement, abaissent le niveau."

Pour l'heure, c'est bien la position du candidat sur l'IVG qui semble inquantifiable. Depuis des mois, François Fillon multiplie les clarifications, sans vraiment y parvenir. Après avoir écrit dans son livre Faire que l'IVG était un "droit fondamental", il avait affirmé que ce n'était pas "ce qu'il voulait dire" lors d'un meeting à Aubergenville (Yvelines) le 22 juin dernier. Un peu plus tôt au cours du mandat de François Hollande, le Sarthois avait entretenu la même ambiguïté alors que le gouvernement prenait de nouvelles mesures sur l'IVG.
Insultes à l'Assemblée nationale

Il s'était montré hostile à la suppression de la clause de détresse pour les femmes voulant avorter. Le 20 janvier 2014, veille du vote à l'Assemblée nationale sur cet article, il écrivait sur son blog les mots suivants : "En choisissant de réécrire la loi de 1975 sur l'IVG, le gouvernement fait une faute morale et politique. Faute morale car il risque de 'banaliser' l'avortement qui, selon les termes de Simone Veil, devait rester 'l'exception'. Faute politique, car il prend le risque de diviser, une fois encore, les Français." Le lendemain, il n'a pourtant pas siégé lors du vote de ce texte, qui a finalement été adopté. Le 26 novembre 2014, il faisait même partie des 27 parlementaires du groupe UMP à avoir voté en faveur d'une proposition de résolution "visant à réaffirmer le droit fondamental à l'IVG".

He needs to absolutely stop this BS, be clear and kick anyone on his team with any tie to anti abortion movement.
He wasn't clear during the primary so I have no reason to trust that he will be any clearer either.
I don't give a shit about his inner convictions, he shouldn't even have started talking about it for all I care about. His earlier public position against greater access to abortion is enough to not deem him acceptable.

And considering his ties with the manif pour tous, there is absolutely need for clarification on the matter.

 

[Alx]

What's not clear about it ? He doesn't like it, but when it's law, it's law, and he won't touch it. Even the parts he didn't vote for.
I only wish he had the same attitude towards the Taubira law.

 

[Mael]

What's not clear about it ? He doesn't like it, but when it's law, it's law, and he won't touch it. Even the parts he didn't vote for.
I only wish he had the same attitude towards the Taubira law.

Again words are winds

Il pourrait remettre la semaine de réflexion qui a été supprimée, dé-rembourser tous les médicaux autour de l'avortement, faire jouer la clause de conscience, ou encore réintroduire la notion d'état de détresse qui a été enlevée", craint Caroline de Haas, présidente d'Osez le féminisme, dans une interview aux Inrocks

À fouiller dans le programme de Fillon 2017, au volet "Les Femmes" on ne trouve aucune occurrence des termes IVG, avortement ou même contraception... Ce manquement serait-il révélateur pour celui qui se pose en "défenseur de la famille" ? L'ex-ministre de Nicolas Sarkozy a largement orienté sa campagne sur la refondation de la politique familiale, avec le sujet épineux de la réécriture de la loi Taubira, afin de revoir l'adoption par les couples homosexuels. "Il ne me paraît pas légitime que la loi permette de considérer qu'un enfant est fils ou fille, de manière exclusive, de deux parents du même sexe", peut-on lire. Ce qui vient à poser la question de la filiation et aborder un autre thème périlleux : celui de la gestation pour autrui.
Foncièrement contre les mères porteuses, le candidat Les Républicain compte se lancer dans un combat mondial pour leur abolition. Sur la PMA, pas moyen de négocier non plus. François Fillon maintiendra l'interdiction de la procréation médicalement assistée pour les couples lesbiens ou les femmes seules. Disposer de son corps et en jouir librement ? Une drôle d'idée pour ce chrétien libéral. S'il se bat pour les droits de la Femme, ce sont pour ceux de la mère de famille fidèle aux valeurs de la foi catholique.

He already have parts of his platform based on his personal convictions, there is nothing to say he is going to change his mind.
He is the one who betrayed Sarkozy's promises between 2007 and 2012 after all.
His proximity with movements like Manif pour tous means he is already suspect and needs to give more than just his word.

 

[Alx]

If words are winds, what are gratuitous suspicions ? Are you just assuming parts of his plans based on his religion, and not on what he clearly states he will or won't do ?

 

[Mael]

If words are winds, what are gratuitous suspicions ? Are you just assuming parts of his plans based on his religion, and not on what he clearly states he will or won't do ?

I'm basing on the people he mingle with and his support.
If his team have people from manif pour tous and the likes, he cannot be trusted.
He could be secretly boudhist for all I care.

 

[HammerOfThor]

Whats with Right wingers wanting to suddenly talk to Russia?

 

[Alx]

Whats with Right wingers wanting to suddenly talk to Russia?

Well, the alternative is to talk to Trump.

 

[Nikodemos]

Whats with Right wingers wanting to suddenly talk to Russia?

They get stiffies when thinking about dat paternalism.

 

[KingSnake]

Whats with Right wingers wanting to suddenly talk to Russia?

This is about a specific topic in particular if I understand this correctly, Syria. Which I kind of understand from France's point of view. Given the number of terror attacks sponsored by IS France needs to do something to make the region more stable and maybe make IS disappear meanwhile. And the easiest way now seems to be by supporting Assad, unfortunately. I don't agree with it, but as nobody seems to want to go again to war against IS and start reconstructing the region there aren't too many alternatives.

 

[Mass_Pincup]

This is about a specific topic in particular if I understand this correctly, Syria. Which I kind of understand from France's point of view. Given the number of terror attacks sponsored by IS France needs to do something to make the region more stable and maybe make IS disappear meanwhile. And the easiest way now seems to be by supporting Assad, unfortunately. I don't agree with it, but as nobody seems to want to go again to war against IS and start reconstructing the region there aren't too many alternatives.

Not really, Fillon also wants to remove the sanctions which followed the Crimea's annexation.

He admires Poutine (or at least like him on a politic level) since their Prime minister days.

 

[KingSnake]

Not really, Fillon also wants to remove the sanctions which followed the Crimea's annexation.

He admires Poutine (or at least like him on a politic level) since their Prime minister days.

Ah, OK. Then it's the usually admiration for someone who can be authoritarian and get away with it.

 

[mo60]

My guess is Le Pen will push hard left on economics and even push the idea that immigrants are conservative on social issues, in order to add the racist and disenfranchised left and center that don't want to vote for the "right", making stronger gains in the 2nd round to win with a slim margin.

One thing that will definitely hurt Le Pen that did not hurt trump is that she's a part of a political family that has been in politics for decades. The Le Pen's history in politics will haunt her next year and it will be insanely hard for her to escape from it. So I would lower your expectations a bit for Le Pen.

 

[Pomerlaw]

Fucking insane it's probably going to come down to Fillon vs Le Pen. Jesus, and people thought they had it bad with Trump v. Clinton. Frances second round is going to be an election I am glad to not take part in, because it really would be me voting for the lesser of two evils.

I'm sorry France GAF. If it comes down to it, you're probably gonna have to bite the bullet to keep the EU together, but I don't envy you.

Man what you are saying is nuts.

Trump is ELECTED, and way worse than Fillon.

 

[Gurgelhals]

Hollande has just announced that he isn't running for a second term. That's... good, I guess. With Hollande out of the picture, is there any credible candidate on the left that has a chance of reaching the second round?

 

[Alx]

Hollande has just announced that he isn't running for a second term. That's... good, I guess. With Hollande out of the picture, is there any credible candidate on the left that has a chance of reaching the second round?

Manuel Valls is the more likely, he's rather popular all around. Still far from being a favourite though, but you never know.
Emmanuel Macron can also be a trump card (no, not that kind of Trump), but he's running as an independent.

 

[saturnine]

Question :

Is Fillon right enough to steal votes from Le Pen?
Is Macron right enough to steal the moderate right (Juppé voters) from Fillon?
Is there someone with actual socialist economic policies strong enough to represent what's left of the political spectrum?

Basically, is there any hope for an actual left candidate after the first turn?

 

[G.O.O.]

After what happened this year, including Fillon, anyone telling now what's going to happen in may is lying about having a clue.

(My analysis)

 

[KingSnake]

Well, Austria seems to have avoided the extremist president, now is the turn of France.

 

[Gurgelhals]

Well, Austria seems to have avoided the extremist president, now is the turn of France.

Some good news at least. Made even better by the fact that projections have Van der Bellen winning with a considerably higher margin than last time.

Not too optimistic for the constitutional referendum in Italy on the other hand... :-/

 

[Xando]

Well, Austria seems to have avoided the extremist president, now is the turn of France.

Good on them. Now we worry about Italy