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[Petrae]

Fandoms are fucking awful, and these salty reactions are an example of why. Nobody is allowed dissenting opinions of their beloved entertainment; they take it as a personal assault and come out swinging for no justifiable reason.

I find Marvel movies to be vapid at best and terrible at worst. It doesn’t mean that I think other people who enjoy them shouldn’t, or that they shouldn’t be made... but it’s refreshing to see some notable people fall out of lockstep and voice their own opinions of them.

Scorsese and Coppola’s opinions won’t affect Disney continuing to roll out countless more of these movies. They exist to make Disney’s money machine keep going.

 

[AlteredForms]

I don't expect to learn or gain enlightenment from any cinema. I mean Coppola made The Godfather 3. What can learned or enlightened about that, other than the fact that he should have let it go after the second one?

Eh. Blockbusters leaving him and his New Cinema ilk (except Scorcese for whatever reason) without decent budgets to work with is worth getting pissed off at and I sympathize.

However, the motherfucker made Godfather 3 so he brought this on himself.

This has become a running gag for a long time and it's often amongst those who didn't even watch Godfather III. Not that I'm implying that's case, but stop overblowing the film's reception.

 

[Tesseract]

never betray the family derp

 

[#Phonepunk#]

he speaks the truth. they are all trash. celebrations of spectacle and violence with little else to show.

What would Stanley Kubrick say about marvel movies if he were alive? That would be funny.

we'd have MCU nerds desperately reaching to find the faults in all of Kubrick's films. also comparing the BO of Endgame to 2001 or some other such nonsense.

 

[LoganKnight4949]

Ima leave this right here.

 

[Moneal]

This has become a running gag for a long time and it's often amongst those who didn't even watch Godfather III. Not that I'm implying that's case, but stop overblowing the film's reception.

The 3rd one was just a bad movie that didn't need to be made. I didn't even know it was received badly. I was only going off my own experience. I loved the first 2. Both were masterpieces, that showed the evolution of Michael. The third didn't really do anything. Even Coppola agreed the 2nd ended the series. He only did it for the money.

 

[AlteredForms]

The 3rd one was just a bad movie that didn't need to be made. I didn't even know it was received badly. I was only going off my own experience. I loved the first 2. Both were masterpieces, that showed the evolution of Michael. The third didn't really do anything. Even Coppola agreed the 2nd ended the series. He only did it for the money.

Godfather III only has a reputation because of how inferior it is to I & II, but people bash it like it's garbage and one of the worst movies ever made. Sofia Coppola shouldn't have been cast and it could have benefited from a few cuts, in my opinion it's a decent film overall.

 

[Master Of Illusion]

This has become a running gag for a long time and it's often amongst those who didn't even watch Godfather III. Not that I'm implying that's case, but stop overblowing the film's reception.

Michael can't be taken seriously with Al's residual Tony Montana voice, Sofia's casting is nepotism incarnate, and its existence is not only unnecessary... but diminishes the power of the first two movies.

 

[AlteredForms]

Michael can't be taken seriously with Al's residual Tony Montana voice, Sofia's casting is nepotism incarnate, and its existence is not only unnecessary... but diminishes the power of the first two movies.

Stop being a drama queen. Everything else I agree with.

 

[oagboghi2]

Godfather III only has a reputation because of how inferior it is to I & II, but people bash it like it's garbage and one of the worst movies ever made. Sofia Coppola shouldn't have been cast and it could have benefited from a few cuts, in my opinion it's a decent film overall.

I agree. It's not that big a fucking deal. Godfather 3 is an alright movie but the internet pretends it's fucking birddemic or something.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Maybe people want dumber entertainment as they get generally smarter. Normal people that is (not NeoGaffers)

I highly doubt most people are getting "generally smarter", going by how people act on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, Youtube you name it. Tech improving means shit all for the average person gaining more critical thought and intelligence, it just means the tech picks up more of our slack so we can be dumber, only faster and more frequently.

 

[eddie4]

I can't say they're trash or bad. They're enjoyable cinema that I watch for the entertainment. It's just that after I watch them I don't tend to remember them like some other movies.

 

[Nymphae]

What was the decades old equivalent to today's situation? Yes there have always been "rollercoaster" theme park type movies, just cheap thrills you don't have to learn from or think about too much - but I think these guys are legitimately onto something because you have adults that are crying at star wars reveal trailers these days and actually sharing that with us via social networks as an important part of their development or their own personal pop culture saga or something, rather than an emabassing look into the vapid lives of today's man children. Are we going to pretend that there aren't way more adults these days that are consumed with entertainment that would have decades ago been considered trash for teens?

 

[haxan7]

I highly doubt most people are getting "generally smarter", going by how people act on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, Youtube you name it. Tech improving means shit all for the average person gaining more critical thought and intelligence, it just means the tech picks up more of our slack so we can be dumber, only faster and more frequently.

Look at it this way, 30 years ago all most people did was watch TV. Now instead of just TV, they read and write to communicate.

 

[Pagusas]

Sorry asshole, you don’t get to define what the definition or expectation of what a film is. Somethings can be fun just for the sake of fun.

 

[Foamy]

I hate film snobs. I don't like gore movies but I don't have a problem with them.
Is The Godfather a better film than Captain America Winter Soldier? Definitely. Is it more entertaining? Fuck no.

 

[SLoWMoTIoN]

You mean The End Of Evangelion?

Are you saying Kojima is a hack?

 

[Schrödinger's cat]

This thread:

 

[#Phonepunk#]

all this talk about FFC has made me want to revisit his work. really looking forward to rewatching Bram Stoker's Dracula (1992) tonight. a landmark work that pays homage to the lost craft of filmmaking.

Coppola was insistent that he did not want to use any kind of contemporary special effects techniques such as computer-generated imagery when making the movie, instead wishing to use antiquated effects techniques from the early history of cinema, which he felt would be more appropriate given that the film's period setting coincides with the origin of film. He initially hired a standard visual effects team, but when they told him that the things he wanted to achieve were impossible without using modern digital technology, Coppola disagreed and fired them, replacing them with his son Roman Coppola. As a result, all of the visual effects seen in the film were achieved without the use of optical or computer-generated effects, but were created using on-set and in-camera methods. For example, any sequences that would have typically required the use of compositing were instead achieved by either rear projection with actors placed in front of a screen with an image projected behind them, or through multiple exposure by shooting a background slate then rewinding the film through the camera and shooting the foreground slate on the same piece of film, all the while using matting techniques to ensure that only the desired areas of film were exposed. Forced perspectives were often employed to combine miniature effects or matte paintings with full-sized elements, or create distorted views of reality, such as holding the camera upside down or at odd angles to create the effect of objects defying the laws of physics.

Bram Stoker's Dracula - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[#Phonepunk#]

Look at it this way, 30 years ago all most people did was watch TV

LOL do you really think this?

 

[Malakhov]

Hilarious, if making 'marvel' movies was that easy, then why do we end up with 100 horrible action movies for a good one?

These old coons are just jealous they're no longer relevant. Now now, go get some rest, last thing they should want is public notice these days.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Look at it this way, 30 years ago all most people did was watch TV. Now instead of just TV, they read and write to communicate.

So we went back to the 1700s?

Damn,.......well at least the 1700's didn't have Instagram and Facebook :S

 

[Punished Miku]

Can't believe people still defend this snobby bullshit.

 

[Mendax89]

He's right. There's no really good MCU movie. They look good in the big screen but there's no substance. Batman, Batman Returns, Spider-Man 1, 2 and 3, Dark Knight and Joker are far better than MCU movies.

 

[brap]

Brap, you watch shitty 80's action movies or films that try to be. Don't pretend your a film snob with fine tastes. The movies you watch also involve muscle men acting on camera.

Those movies are fun and aren't advertisements for childrens toys. You don't need to be a film snob to shit on garbage movies. Give me Cobra or Con Air over some braindead CGI shitfest anytime.

Can't believe people still defend this snobby bullshit.

Can't believe people still can't comprehend the fact that not everybody likes children's movies.

 

[Tesseract]

i love cobra and con air but let's not act like they ain't for children

boys love violence

 

[brap]

i love cobra and con air but let's not act like they ain't for children

boys love violence

Ok I guess R-rated movies are for children now. Let's just say everything is for children. Kids love movies. They're all for kids.

 

[Tesseract]

Ok I guess R-rated movies are for children now. Let's just say everything is for children. Kids love movies. They're all for kids.

you go from one extreme to another

teenage boys watch those kinds of movies pretty regularly with or without their parent's permission

 

[Tesseract]

i saw terminator 2 in theaters when i was 6 or 7, i recall numerous children in the theater

 

[Punished Miku]

i saw terminator 2 in theaters when i was 6 or 7, i recall numerous children in the theater

Despicable! It was just action and CG.

 

[Clear]

The Godfather was made in 1972, 47 years ago, and its still regarded as a classic of American film.

Does anyone honestly think that Black Panther will be looked on the same way in 2065? Or will people just be laughing at how archaic the cg looks by that point in time?

That's the thing about too many modern movies, they are reliant on technologies that are going to look as hokey as Ray Harryhausen stop-motion effects in the future. CG has come a long way since Tron and Lawnmower man, but most of the time it still looks as fake as fuck at least some of the time. The wow factor has an expiry date, and in the end its really not what really attracts people to come back again and again.

Lucas proved that by his fuckery with the original SW, yeah he fixed the effects to look more modern but in the end he pleased nobody.

 

[brap]

you go from one extreme to another

teenage boys watch those kinds of movies pretty regularly with or without their parent's permission

ok all movies are for teenage boys then. marvel movies are still for children though.

 

[Tesseract]

ok all movies are for teenage boys then. marvel movies are still for children though.

most marvel movies are for children, hoping the doctor strange sequel mixes things up

i'd say they're more for families tho, dads have a lot of fun taking their kids to these things

 

[Sub_Level]

DC is kinosthetic: The movement of pictures to present artistry in its purest form. We see the biblical conventions on display as Snyder weaves his testosterone-induced vision of the Christlike Superman onto our screen. We see the question of what is a man as Keaton and Bale give a tour de force respectively. The composition of DC's universe is brought to full frontal with Gal Gadot's majestic take as Wonder Woman or Jason Mamoa's Aquaman, arousing the senses both sexual and intellectual. What we are seeing with DC is the modern mythology. Our Apollo. Our Athena. Our Zeus. And of course I needn't mention the recently released Joker which reaches kino levels that shouldn't even be possible.

Marvel meanwhile is baby diaper change time. The best marvel movies Blade, Spiderman 2, and Logan, are not even MCU.

 

[sol_bad]

Ok I guess R-rated movies are for children now. Let's just say everything is for children. Kids love movies. They're all for kids.

Well ...... a lot of R rated films had boys toys like ..... Robocop, Terminator and Aliens. And their ads were all over the TV.

10 Classic Toy Lines Based On R-Rated Movies

From Aliens to Demolition Man, there have been a few weird choices in toy lines for kids, all based on rated-R movies.

www.gamespot.com

 

[brap]

Well ...... a lot of R rated films had boys toys like ..... Robocop, Terminator and Aliens. And their ads were all over the TV.

10 Classic Toy Lines Based On R-Rated Movies

From Aliens to Demolition Man, there have been a few weird choices in toy lines for kids, all based on rated-R movies.

www.gamespot.com

Toxic Avenger had a kids show. It truly was a different time. Kids were watching gory edgy movies and now adults watch PG movies for kids. Take me back.

DC is kinosthetic: The movement of pictures to present artistry in its purest form. We see the biblical conventions on display as Snyder weaves his testosterone-induced vision of the Christlike Superman onto our screen. We see the question of what is a man as Keaton and Bale give a tour de force respectively. The composition of DC's universe is brought to full frontal with Gal Gadot's majestic take as Wonder Woman or Jason Mamoa's Aquaman, arousing the senses both sexual and intellectual. What we are seeing with DC is the modern mythology. Our Apollo. Our Athena. Our Zeus. And of course I needn't mention the recently released Joker which reaches kino levels that shouldn't even be possible.

Marvel meanwhile is baby diaper change time. The best marvel movies Blade, Spiderman 2, and Logan, are not even MCU.

You forgot Punisher War Zone and The 80s Punisher with Dolph Lundgren.

 

[haxan7]

LOL do you really think this?

So we went back to the 1700s?

Damn,.......well at least the 1700's didn't have Instagram and Facebook :S

I generalized too broadly. What I'm getting at is the internet has made people more literate (and therefore smarter, by one broad measure of intelligence). Yes, I know "literate" isn't the first thing that comes to mind when you look at the YouTube comments section or something else, but in general the internet is a form of entertainment that requires more brain power than just consuming television. So people are using their brains more, even if a lot of what they're using it for is idiotic and misguided.

To stay on topic, my point is that it's not a far stretch of the imagination to see a link between heavy internet use (which requires thinking) and the massive dominance of vapid popcorn movies (which really doesn't). People want a break from their minds.

It's just a thought. It doesn't mean I'm right or wrong.

 

[dan76]

I think the way Coppola see it is that these films are made by studio heads, committes with a cookie cutter template, made to please kids and keep the franchise going. The whole reason for people to engage in making films for this reason is alien to him and a lot of the film makers of his generation. Apart from one obvious one, who fault all this shit is anyhow.

Either way, I don't think he thinks that the film makers love what they're doing. That's probably why he dispises them as no one in their right mind would want to make this stuff. But he's wrong. Bizarrely some of these directors and producers love it and they think they're topping 2001.

So as something cold and calculated purely to make money and sell toys they are despicable, but some people working on them actually think they are... good.

I'm with Coppola. Yes he's made some crap but for a good 12 years he turned out constantly interesting films, and a few masterpieces. The Godfather 1 & 2, The Conversation, Apocalypse Now, Rumble Fish, The Outsiders, One from the Heart, The Cotton Club. All these films are special in their own way and have something unique in them.

 

[sol_bad]

Either way, I don't think he thinks that the film makers love what they're doing. That's probably why he dispises them as no one in their right mind would want to make this stuff. But he's wrong. Bizarrely some of these directors and producers love it and they think they're topping 2001.

What makes you think that they think they are topping 2001?
Most of the MCU directors are no doubt inspired by Scorsese, Coppola, Hitchcock, Spielberg and Kubrick. The list goes on.
Why would they think they are exceeding their inspirations?

James Gunn is putting his heart and soul in to the GOTG films. Same with Ryan Couglar and the Russo brothers.
Story and characters come first.

And I can't understand why people on this forum think the MCU films are aimed at kids just because they are PG13. Aiming for a wide audience does not = kiddified.
In all honesty, it's the stupid American ratings board that is holding directors back if anything. If these films were made to spec on the Australian ratings board for example, they'd be able to get away with much more "adult" content. Joker for example is rated MA15+ in Australia, it's a very small jump from the age of 13 to 15.
Are you going to sit there and tell me that Joker is a kids film because 12-15 year old kids can watch it in Australia?

 

[HeresJohnny]

Yeah they are pretty awful movies, but some people like them so who cares.

 

[oagboghi2]

Hilarious, if making 'marvel' movies was that easy, then why do we end up with 100 horrible action movies for a good one?

These old coons are just jealous they're no longer relevant. Now now, go get some rest, last thing they should want is public notice these days.

Whenever anyone comments on how shit these MCU movies are, everyone starts to pretend that they've never made anything good before marvel came along

Scorseses new movie might be up for Best Picture. Yeah dude, he should "go get some rest."

 

[Unknown Soldier]

He is not wrong. MCU is garbage. Watched a couple of them and cannot for the life of me understand why these movies are such huge critical and box office hits. Every movie was molded in the same boring fashion, like soulless products coming out from an assembly line.

That's because they literally are made that way. The process that results in Marvel movies is pretty interesting, and the formula they use seems pretty effective for that particular franchise. Marvel movies are nothing more than products made to be sold, I don't think anyone involved actually thinks they are making art nor do they care as long as the cash keeps rolling in.

They tried to use the same formula to churn out the new Star Wars films and, well, that didn't go so well.

 

[drganon]

I wouldn't go so far as to call them despicable, but the MCU is overrated trash.

 

[sol_bad]

That's because they literally are made that way. The process that results in Marvel movies is pretty interesting, and the formula they use seems pretty effective for that particular franchise. Marvel movies are nothing more than products made to be sold, I don't think anyone involved actually thinks they are making art nor do they care as long as the cash keeps rolling in.

They tried to use the same formula to churn out the new Star Wars films and, well, that didn't go so well.

Please prove that the films are produced by corporate and not by the creatives writing and directing?
The only films that have had corporate interfere were with Iron Man 3, Thor: The Dark World and Avengers: Age of Ultron.
The rest, no, but prove it if you can.

I also don't understand this "formula" that people talk about. The only similarity that the MCU films share is that quite a few of them start with a flashback to the past. Other than that, I don' see any "formula".

As for Star Wars, is it corporate or Rian's fault? It can't be both.

 

[highrider]

I’m going to be that guy. Martin, Francis, shut the fuck up. You’re both great directors and filmmakers but this just makes you look like irrelevant old sourpusses. Marvel movies are popular because movies are fucking expensive, especially if you have a family. You’re going to get entertainment value for all ages pretty much. An 8 year old kid can enjoy it as can his parents. Not everything has to be some heavyweight piece of art.

 

[Sorcerer]

But Francis, what about Godfather 3???

 

[Mihos]

In the interest of equal time, they should post stuff they enjoy and let us crap all over it.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

I generalized too broadly. What I'm getting at is the internet has made people more literate (and therefore smarter, by one broad measure of intelligence). Yes, I know "literate" isn't the first thing that comes to mind when you look at the YouTube comments section or something else, but in general the internet is a form of entertainment that requires more brain power than just consuming television. So people are using their brains more, even if a lot of what they're using it for is idiotic and misguided.

To stay on topic, my point is that it's not a far stretch of the imagination to see a link between heavy internet use (which requires thinking) and the massive dominance of vapid popcorn movies (which really doesn't). People want a break from their minds.

It's just a thought. It doesn't mean I'm right or wrong.

Hmm....I don't know about this either xD. We didn't have the internet or social media as a major thing up to the mid '00s, but we still had magazines. We still had books. And in absence of internet people just turned to those things more often, so I don't know if the internet and social media being a thing has made the average person more literate. If anything, whatever gains people *could* have in literacy thanks to the internet are negated by where they choose to spend their time online, and just the education system (at least in America) being blown to shit in so many ways for a long time now.

And it's not like there weren't thought-provoking shows on TV before the internet. I'd argue children's shows and cartoons (at least among the better ones) were more thought-provoking than what kids are getting today. Like compare the original She-Ra to the new She-Ra, or Beast Wars to whatever's the current cash-in Transformers animated series.

But all that said, I don't doubt there ARE people who have become more educated and literate thanks to the internet. But those people seem to be exceptions instead of the rule, and they actively choose to spend their time and presence online wisely. Most people just don't have that in them these days, regardless who they are.

 

[near]

I agree with him to an extent, they're despicable. However, films don't have to make a statement, people want to be entertained and sometimes brainless cinematic experiences are fun. Michael Bay has been doing it for years, films based on comics aren't any different.

 

[oagboghi2]

Please prove that the films are produced by corporate and not by the creatives writing and directing?
The only films that have had corporate interfere were with Iron Man 3, Thor: The Dark World and Avengers: Age of Ultron.
The rest, no, but prove it if you can.

I also don't understand this "formula" that people talk about. The only similarity that the MCU films share is that quite a few of them start with a flashback to the past. Other than that, I don' see any "formula".

As for Star Wars, is it corporate or Rian's fault? It can't be both.

You are in so much denial it is amazing.

The fact that the biggest name in the MCU is Kevin Feige, not a director, is proof enough alone that it operates via a formula. There is a well established pacing rhythm that pretty much all the MCU movies follow. It’s not a question of plot similarities.