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Gay and Bisexual Coming-out thread |OT|

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I think I'm Bi, I find myself attracted to good looking, clean men a lot. I've never acted on it though, no idea how. Plus I rarely go out drinking anymore.
Ultimately I'm cool with it if I am, every now and then repressed thoughts seep into my mind. But I know they are ridiculous and will probably go away indefinitely if I go out and have a male experience to find for sure.
 

Alcoori

Member
Replicant said:
I don't think there's stigma about gays either at the uni where I work but I've never seen anyone behaving that brave. But if alcohol is involved maybe that's a different story.

But yeah, in my experience, gay guys are frustratingly shy in public places. And I live in Sydney, one of the biggest gay cities in the world. Their idea of coming on to someone is like Robbie Williams and Gary Barlow in this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tv49bC5xGVY

That's: longing looks, shy smiles, unsure eye contact, etc....from a safe distance, of course. That's how gay guys act in public place. Because no one likes to hit on the wrong person. I actually had the same experience in the gym a few days ago. We were just staring at each other alternately and in the end, neither of us said anything. He did wait for me outside the gym after he finished but since I didn't expected that and I didn't want to come off weird/creepy, in the end nothing was said.

I've had occasions where some campy guys flirt with me but again, even with them, the worst I got was them giving me some form of slutty expression. And since I normally just ignore them (ie. not saying anything or look in their direction), they don't go beyond that.

My straight workout partner at the gym actually is far more bold than any gay guys I've met. He's groped me on many occasions in the gym and in response, I just do nothing because I don't want to offend him. Apart from that the most I ever got in a public place from a stranger was a wink and a "Hi". Again, that's from a straight guy (his wife was walking behind him).

gym drama :)

What I meant by hating on camp guys is, imo, some people are not totally ok with being gay and for them the thought of being compared or taken for an effeminate gay is probably the worst thing ever.
I used to say to people I was gay but I hated effeminate guy because if you're gay you want real men, not sissies. It was a way for me to say I might be gay but not less of a men. Bashing others in order to be accepted if you wish.

I'm not talking about the catty and mean kind, but some guys are just very feminine and that's ok. Not being attracted to them is not a big deal, what is is to dismiss all of them on the basis of them acting in a feminine way.
Gaborn and Replicant summarized what I think about it very well so I don't really have anything more to add.
 
i_am_ben said:
I'll be honest, a lot of the guys who call themselves "straight-acting" i roll my eyes at. Girlfriends are in denial.
And it's the opposite for a lot of gays I've met, so... painting broad strokes is fun.
 

Mumei

Member
:lol

It wouldn't be a gay-gaf thread without this discussion. Gaborn and ben said what I feel about the matter, though.
 

Suairyu

Banned
If people are super-effeminate, great. If they're what others would call "straight acting", also great. If they're somewhere in-between, go them!

But man, the gay culture is often a super-effeminate-man-making machine. You can get homosexuals who are any of the other two options, they'll go deep into the community and emerge two months later as complete and utter queens. I'm not talking 'finally able to be themselves' kind of transformations, I'm talking actually transformative transformations. It frightens me.
 

Alcoori

Member
Suairyu said:
If people are super-effeminate, great. If they're what others would call "straight acting", also great. If they're somewhere in-between, go them!

But man, the gay culture is often a super-effeminate-man-making machine. You can get homosexuals who are any of the other two options, they'll go deep into the community and emerge two months later as complete and utter queens. I'm not talking 'finally able to be themselves' kind of transformations, I'm talking actually transformative transformations. It frightens me.
For someone who's deploring broad generalisation about bisexual people, you sure don't hold your horses when it comes to the gay community!
 

Suairyu

Banned
Alcoori said:
For someone who's deploring broad generalisation about bisexual people, you sure don't hold your horses when it comes to the gay community!
There was not a single broad generalisation in my post. There wasn't even a thin generalisation.
 

Alcoori

Member
Suairyu said:
If people are super-effeminate, great. If they're what others would call "straight acting", also great. If they're somewhere in-between, go them!

But man, the gay culture is often a super-effeminate-man-making machine. You can get homosexuals who are any of the other two options, they'll go deep into the community and emerge two months later as complete and utter queens. I'm not talking 'finally able to be themselves' kind of transformations, I'm talking actually transformative transformations. It frightens me.

Isn't that generalization?
Girl please.
 

Suairyu

Banned
Alcoori said:
Isn't that generalization?
Girl please.
No, because of the qualifier "you can get", which when combined with the preceding sentence explains this is a frequently observed but not constant phenomenon.
 

Suairyu

Banned
Gay people are always sexy. Your talk about whether or not I resort to generalisations is distracting us from this truthful observation.
 
Suairyu said:
Gay people are always sexy. Your talk about whether or not I resort to generalisations is distracting us from this truthful observation.
This is very true. But then again, so are straight men... yum.

blame space: you're not gay, so how do you know?
 
blame space said:
don't u tell me what I am or ain't man that is what we can an assumption. and yeah I have observed similar instances.
Well if you were to come out and say you're either gay or bi then I can assume you actually observed these instances rather than just go off of what the media tells you. But honestly the amount of 'mega-queen' gays that do this is pretty small, to be honest.
 

Suairyu

Banned
ZephyrFate said:
But I really hope we get some juicy coming out stories here.
The first act of mine is a comedy. The second act is a tragedy. I'm hoping the third act ultimately ends as a satire. This thread for current or past stories?
 
Suairyu said:
The first act of mine is a comedy. The second act is a tragedy. I'm hoping the third act ultimately ends as a satire. This thread for current or past stories?
Doesn't matter, just so long as it involves coming out (in more ways than one)
 

Alcoori

Member
Suairyu said:
No, because of the qualifier "you can get", which when combined with the preceding sentence explains this is a frequently observed but not constant phenomenon.

Have you observed that phenomenon for a sizable portion of gay men? If not you are generalizing, extrapolating, whatever you wanna call it.

When people say their friend had a bad experience with a couple of bi people and now they don't like them, that's a generalization too. Saying there might be an exception or two doesn't change the fact that it is.
 
Alcoori said:
Have you observed that phenomenon for a sizable portion of gay men? If not you are generalizing, extrapolating, whatever you wanna call it.

When people say their friend had a bad experience with a couple of bi people and now they don't like them, that's a generalization too. Saying there might be an exception or two doesn't change the fact that it is.
Depends on the amount of data you get, though. I don't know many people who are positive about bisexual (guys, at least).
 
ZephyrFate said:
Well if you were to come out and say you're either gay or bi then I can assume you actually observed these instances rather than just go off of what the media tells you. But honestly the amount of 'mega-queen' gays that do this is pretty small, to be honest.

i can't observe homosexuals or bisexuals without carrying my card? :lol the media.. man who's being brainwashed here?

and yeah, no one claimed it was super common.
 
blame space said:
i can't observe homosexuals or bisexuals without carrying my card? :lol the media.. man who's being brainwashed here?

and yeah, no one claimed it was super common.
because quite frankly the idea that gays are mega queens comes from TV, movies, videogames, etc.
 
Yeah hence my point. I know only 2 lesbians, they're both butch, yet I'm not gonna say almost all of them are.

yeah.. that would be a generalization instead. what you have there is an observation.

this is fun :|
 
blame space said:
yeah.. that would be a generalization instead. what you have there is an observation.

this is fun :|
A generalization can be both an 'observation' and a 'generalization'. You make a wide, ignorant observation that becomes a generalization.
 

Suairyu

Banned
Alcoori said:
Have you observed that phenomenon for a sizable portion of gay men? If not you are generalizing, extrapolating, whatever you wanna call it.

When people say their friend had a bad experience with a couple of bi people and now they don't like them, that's a generalization too. Saying there might be an exception or two doesn't change the fact that it is.
There's a massive difference between saying "I often observe people's personality change when they enter the gay community-at-large" and "I had a bad experience with a bi-sexual therefore I should be wary of all bi-sexuals". Mine was a statement of personal observation (and yes, it has been a massive portion of gay men I have personally seen, but that wouldn't make me expect it to happen; I just wouldn't be surprised if it did), the bi-sexual stuff is prejudice enhanced by experience.
 

Suairyu

Banned
ZephyrFate said:
because quite frankly the idea that gays are mega queens comes from TV, movies, videogames, etc.
Eh. The gay community in the 70s and 80s is just as guilty of perpetuating the myth of the queen as straight TV and film media. It served a purpose of creating an identity and getting the "we are here we are queer" message out there. It died down a little in the 90s and it's coming back in full force, not helped by gay writers who use irony as a defence for something they should really know better about.

Feminism has just as serious a problem right now with feminist writers doing things for irony's sake that just creates more sexist ideas. The "I'm a cum gargling slut being suspended from the ceiling by shibari rope and being used as a human toilet and I'M SO EMPOWERED" sort.
 
Suairyu said:
Eh. The gay community in the 70s and 80s is just as guilty of perpetuating the myth of the queen as straight TV and film media. It served a purpose of creating an identity and getting the "we are here we are queer" message out there. It died down a little in the 90s and it's coming back in full force, not helped by gay writers who use irony as a defence for something they should really know better about.

Feminism has just as serious a problem right now with feminist writers doing things for irony's sake that just creates more sexist ideas. The "I'm a cum gargling slut being suspended from the ceiling by shibari rope and being used as a human toilet and I'M SO EMPOWERED" sort.
I can't say I'm wholly married to the idea, honestly. When I came out it was just a small change in how I expressed my attraction to dudes, but I remained 'masculine'. I could never relate to something like Queer Eye.
 

Mumei

Member
Suairyu said:
There's a massive difference between saying "I often observe people's personality change when they enter the gay community-at-large" and "I had a bad experience with a bi-sexual therefore I should be wary of all bi-sexuals". Mine was a statement of personal observation (and yes, it has been a massive portion of gay men I have personally seen, but that wouldn't make me expect it to happen; I just wouldn't be surprised if it did), the bi-sexual stuff is prejudice enhanced by experience.

I think I agree; there main difference is the extrapolation (you aren't extrapolating your observations to all gays, whereas the gay person in the example is extrapolating his experiences to all bisexuals).

That said, the observation you make ("normal" person comes out, gets introduced to the gay community and starts acting, you know, really gay) is one that often is extrapolated to all gay people.
 
Just a note, if you're sending me a request on Skype (motorde), please include that you're from GayGAF. I don't want to risk adding someone to the chat that might be from work or something. :lol
 

Alcoori

Member
blame space said:
yeah.. that would be a generalization instead. what you have there is an observation.

this is fun :|

lol.
This is exactly what I said.


You can argue about generalization, extrapolation or whatnot. In the end it's just semantic, taking a personal experience and making it the rule is a fallacy.

People hate on bisexuals for their own reasons, good or not, and you have a legit point saying that's bullshit.
Then I see you posting to criticize the gay community/culture saying it transforms people in giant queens even though they might not be to begin with.
I find it ironic and not true. But we're all entitled to our own opinion, however incorrect they might be.
 

Cosmic Bus

pristine morning snow
Guess I could share my coming out experience since maybe it will encourage others with religious family members to go forward.

I was 27 before telling anyone. A female friend at my job asked me out to dinner one day and after some debate, I accepted... on the condition with myself that I should come clean so as not to lead her on. Upon bringing it up near the end of dinner, she simply said "I know!" and continued talking. It was so strange that I actually stopped her and had to say it again to be sure she'd heard me.

Nearly a year went by before I would come out to anyone else. I didn't date, have any gay friends (or even know a gay person) so this was barely a part of my life, yet there was a huge sense of guilt that I was hiding part of myself from my parents and it had to be dealt with. So after visiting them one evening, I said there was something that needed to be discussed. It worried me how they might react since they're Christian and raised me as such, but despite all my shaking and hesitation, those words finally made their way out of my mouth and everything was fine. My mother cried (don't they usually?) and my dad, a man of very few words, just said "It doesn't make any difference, we're your parents and we're always going to love you." then paused before adding "...Oh, and you should masturbate a lot."

They asked the normal string of questions: "Are you sure? Is it a phase? Did we do something to make you this way?" etc... but ultimately, it's just another day-in-the-life.

I waited until my 30s to come out to my friends (because, again, I did not date or have any sort of sexual "life" so what did it matter?) and even then, I just did it by changing my Facebook to say "interested in men." A few people noticed and said they were happy for me, others found out sooner or later through the grapevine, and not a single person - including my numerous Christian friends from high school - had any issue with it. I still have not told my sister and her family.

I still have never been on a date or had a boyfriend, and the one instance of sex was a stupid drunken mistake with friends that I wish had never happened. This much will never change and I can accept that; some people just aren't meant to be with anyone else. At least now I'm comfortable enough to tell anyone who asks.
 
I think sex with another penis involved would be fun, but I don't find the masculine form sexy at all. I am jealous of people who are truly bisexual.
 
Cosmic, just accepting and figuring out your sexuality is more than some are able to do. I have a brother that struggles with the fact that he is gay and seems to hate that part of himself. I would almost go as far as calling him a self-hating gay.

Anyway, be proud that you've gotten to this point at least and don't discount that you might find somebody for you. Don't accept that you'll never meet somebody but keep trying to find somebody for you. Not every relationship is bound to be forever, and I think looking for that is foolish, just enjoy your time with people while you have it.
 
Cosmic Bus said:
I still have never been on a date or had a boyfriend, and the one instance of sex was a stupid drunken mistake with friends that I wish had never happened. This much will never change and I can accept that; some people just aren't meant to be with anyone else. At least now I'm comfortable enough to tell anyone who asks.
This is where i'm at too CB, you're not the only one.
 

Suairyu

Banned
Alcoori said:
lThen I see you posting to criticize the gay community/culture saying it transforms people in giant queens even though they might not be to begin with.
I find it ironic and not true. But we're all entitled to our own opinion, however incorrect they might be.
But I didn't say that! It would have been a damn generalisation for me to extrapolate my experiences and say what you believe I said, but I didn't do that. I said people often go through that transformation when entering the community. I didn't say it was a rule that once you enter the community you transform.

Cosmic Bus - unless you actually want to go without dating and partners, get some confidence already! Every coming out event of yours has been entirely positive and you're still worried? Scratch that, you're older than 30 and you still let what others think stop you from being completely honest about yourself? Relax. In the nicest possible way, nobody really cares that you're gay. It doesn't make you who you are. Tell everyone you know immediately and if anyone reacts badly (outside of genuine shock; they can't help that) then ditch them.

My coming out story:
I got drunk and told one of my friends. He was totally cool with it, but unfortunately (fortunately?) he was a gossipy bitch. One week later my entire school year knew. An all boys school. I was terrified, but decided that my attitude would be "deal with it". Everyone dealt with it. Of course, I was the new and shiny thing of interest, so I got heckled, teased and asked a lot of questions, but there was never any malice behind it. Just boys being boys. Everyone accepted me for who I was. Except for the Russian exchange student, Vitali.
"And what do you think about Suairyu being bisexual, Vitali?" said a friend, huge shit-eating grin plastered across his face.
"He should be taken outside and shot with gun," he replied, in the most amazingly thick Russian accent ever. It was James Bond levels of hilarity. He was 100% earnest.
"What if Suairyu was a girl?"
"Then that okay. Girl can like girl. But not man liking other man. They freak"
(he was probably just a Tatu fan)

I thought about coming out to my parents. I was certain my mother would be cool about it, at least. She instilled within me a strong moral code of accepting everyone. She worked in a sexual health clinic and interacted with homosexuals on a daily basis. My father I wasn't so sure about. I believe he has absolutely nothing against gay/bi people, but he just wouldn't want his son to be that. Does that make sense? I decided to wait a little bit until telling them.

I went off to University and it was there I discovered the joys of the LGBT. Or rather, in this particular case, the shiteness. If the members could have removed the 'B' from the title they would have. There was an intense, irrational hatred towards bisexuality. "They're not real gays, they're just sluts, they're just greedy etc. etc." All the straight people I met were completely cool with me. I spoke to bi-sexual and bi-curious people outside of the society and they said they'd all had similar experiences. One poor girl had been completely put off ever experimenting with her sexuality because of a particularly venomous experience. The whole ordeal is what made me first begin to question the role of a gay "community" and -even though I surmised my experiences must be unfortunate rather than the rule- whether the LGBT banner was healthy for gay equality or not. BUT THAT'S ANOTHER CONVERSATION.

Then one day as I sat in my room studying, I receive a text from my sister. It read, "can't believe you're bi, lol." Obviously she was cool with it, but I worried how she knew. I asked her and she told me she'd heard from my mother. Not a few minutes later, I receive a phone call from my mother. The short of it was that she was okay with me being one or the other, but not both.
"Does <your girlfriend> know?"
"Yes, of course."
"And how does she feel about all this?"
"What? What on earth do you mean?"
"Well, how is she okay sleeping with you knowing that... ugh, well I couldn't. Just don't tell your father."
I was shocked into silence and, after a pause, hung up. I found a friend of mine and explained. She then spent a lot of money getting me drunk.

I'm always going to hold a grudge against my mother for that. Most of the time I forget about it, then it'll just come to the front of my mind and I'll be in a foul mood with her for days on end. I felt so betrayed. She was the parent who taught me to understand everyone, then she refused to understand me. I expected her to be too supportive, if anything, wanting to talk about it and recommending local gay pride events and totally making me embarrassed by being overly caring like mums are supposed to.

I still haven't told my father.

EDIT - to clarify, my mother found out by finding out on Facebook. Now my Facebook never contains relationship statuses or orientations, and it's locked down so hard that even if you know my name you can't search for me. None of that friend-of-a-friend bullshit, either.
 
How does this...


Suairyu said:
Cosmic Bus - unless you actually want to go without dating and partners, get some confidence already! Every coming out event of yours has been entirely positive and you're still worried? Scratch that, you're older than 30 and you still let what others think stop you from being completely honest about yourself? Relax. In the nicest possible way, nobody really cares that you're gay. It doesn't make you who you are. Tell everyone you know immediately and if anyone reacts badly (outside of genuine shock; they can't help that) then ditch them.

Jive with this...

Suairyu said:
I still haven't told my father.


I don't know how I would have reacted if my mom would have said that. She always taught us that as well and thankfully it carried over into this.
 

Suairyu

Banned
I wrote that knowing full well someone would (rightfully) call me out. To clarify, everyone but my father knows, and the moment I find a job that pays well enough for me to get my own place I'm telling him. It's simply a matter of having somewhere to go in case it blows up the wrong way, not because I'd care if it did go wrong.
Siebzehn50 said:
I don't know how I would have reacted if my mom would have said that. She always taught us that as well and thankfully it carried over into this.
I still don't know how to react, either. Hence the constantly simmering hatred. It's completely unhealthy but I don't want to do anything about it. My biggest hope is that once I do tell my father he'll be completely cool about it thus showing my mother up to be terrible and she'll break down and cry and apologise and everything will be sugar and rainbows again.
 
Fair enough. I can't imagine what that situation would be like, it's a shame that parents really cut their kids off over their sexuality.


Suairyu said:
I still don't know how to react, either. Hence the constantly simmering hatred. It's completely unhealthy but I don't want to do anything about it. My biggest hope is that once I do tell my father he'll be completely cool about it thus showing my mother up to be terrible and she'll break down and cry and apologise and everything will be sugar and rainbows again.

I hope that happens too. I've heard of cases of that happening. Where the parent expected to be cool with it reacted horribly and the one expected to be against it was totally ok with it. People are confusing sometimes.
 

beast786

Member
I cant even imagine living a life where I wouldn't be able express my sexuality. I am not Gay, but you guys/girls have my full support.
 

Cosmic Bus

pristine morning snow
Suairyu said:
Cosmic Bus - unless you actually want to go without dating and partners, get some confidence already! Every coming out event of yours has been entirely positive and you're still worried? Scratch that, you're older than 30 and you still let what others think stop you from being completely honest about yourself? Relax. In the nicest possible way, nobody really cares that you're gay.

It has nothing to do with being gay; if I were straight or bisexual, my situation would be exactly the same. There are a number of factors (that don't need to be pinpointed in this thread) which play into me being the sort of person I am, and despite my efforts to combat them, they just continue to intensify. It's a wonder I'm not dead yet, but hey, there's always tomorrow...
 

Suairyu

Banned
Cosmic Bus said:
It has nothing to do with being gay; if I were straight or bisexual, my situation would be exactly the same. There are a number of factors (that don't need to be pinpointed in this thread) which play into me being the sort of person I am, and despite my efforts to combat them, they just continue to intensify. It's a wonder I'm not dead yet, but hey, there's always tomorrow...
Well without any further specifics I won't presume to give any further 'advice'. Except the following:
Chin up, lad.
 
Cosmic Bus said:
It has nothing to do with being gay; if I were straight or bisexual, my situation would be exactly the same. There are a number of factors (that don't need to be pinpointed in this thread) which play into me being the sort of person I am, and despite my efforts to combat them, they just continue to intensify. It's a wonder I'm not dead yet, but hey, there's always tomorrow...

I sure hope you're getting therapy.
 

Cosmic Bus

pristine morning snow
I am, although talking to a therapist doesn't really solve anything. I don't have insurance or the money to afford medication. 'Merica, fuck yeah. -__-
 
I'm bi. I've never told anyone before because I so rarely meet guys I would be into and I've never done anything with a guy before. I'm also a little reluctant to tell my friends because I've noticed a bit of an anti-bi-sexual bias even among really liberal socially progressive people. A girl I dated who is extremely pro-gay rights told me that all the "bi" guys in her college dorm were really just closeted gays who dated their girlfriends during the week and fucked guys on the weekend. I'm sure that happens, but I was really surprised to here her generalize that out to all bi-sexual people. And she's not the only one who feels that way. I know a lot of people who believe that either you're gay or straight and there's no in between.
 
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