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Giant Spoiler Snakecast 9/18/2015 (MGSV SPOILERS EVERYWHERE)
- Thread starter Myggen
- Start date
I would be more inclined to treat it as an epilogue if the core story itself was more satisfying. But it wasn't at all. Skullface was a total jobber and an awful villain. All we got out of him was that one line.
Hero_of_the_Day
Member
I can only speak for myself, but yeah, no way. I wanted this to be the last even before shit got crazy at Konami. I wanted one last ride to finish off the story of Big Boss. Which, I mean, I guess we got. The timeline is essentially complete at this point. I just didn't want this lame ass version where the real BB isn't even a part of finishing up his own story.
I actually think it's weird that chapter 1 was the entire main story. I feel like after mission 12 (last mission before Africa, huey rescue) would have made a natural chapter break. I also kinda with the twelve or so repeat missions would have been put in their own "EXTRA OPS" menu so people didn't wind up playing those when they didn't need to. I feel chapter 2 flows pretty well if you skip them.
Honestly if you look at this game as filling in the gaps 4 left when it introduced a million new things about the patriots, I feel Big Boss's story is finally complete. (That's why I said I think playing 4 after V would be a really interesting experience.) I can't think of anything missing, we know everything now. The story begins and ends with Big Boss talking to Solid Snake, and we know where he was for everything else inbetween. Clearing up the discrepancy between MG1 and MG2 really helps me chart his path. When the story became more complex, the conflict of him as a villain vs him in foxhound always felt like a plot hole that future games tried to avoid talking about, but this makes so much sense. There's nothing really left to find out, other than portable ops style "Big Boss went here to fight a guy but it didn't actually matter." or MAYBE the raiden saves sunny game they wrote and didn't actually finish.
The only thing they could really do is show big boss recruiting special forces unit fox hound. But we know that story explicitly because every MGS1 boss gives us their accounting of it. Also something about the mission 51 thing that I really like that dan kinda didn't realize is that in the timeline after 1984 there is actually this weird thing about always putting liquid, mantis, and ocelot together. In the vision of how the darpa chief actually died, the 3 that are interrogating him are Liquid, Mantis, and Ocelot. And then after that you have the Liquid Ocelot stuff and Mantis showing up at the end of 4 out of nowhere that actually kind of feels great now that I think about how much V fleshes him out. I'm really excited to play 4 again after finishing V.
the thing is, i'm not as cynical as metal gear GAF, I kinda liked the ending and the twist and everything
BUT
the execution. I hated the execution. Having to re-do the whole Hospital scene felt lazy, the cinematic that followed felt rushed and thrown together at the last second
I was expecting a typical 50 minute cutscene with some bullshit kojima conspiracy, and instead I got to re-do the whole 30 minute tutorial followed by "oh by the way you're not big boss lol -> credits"... I might be to blame for having expectations, but then again that's what every single metal gear game did in the past. Knowing they cut a whole chapter out amplifies that feeling of a rushed ending
firehawk12
Subete no aware
I like the idea that MGS "V" is the fake sequel and that there would have been called MGS"5" later on. lol
MGS V = MGS Venom
Basileus777
Member
Peace Walker is still the true MGS5 lol.
Oh, it turned out to be nothing. Don't even bother looking it up.
SnakeLinkSonic
Member
I didn't mind the twist or the story itself, but I agree with the main point of its execution being kind of horrid.
- I didn't care about having some tragic Big Boss meltdown---in fact I enjoyed Venom Snake in that he exists to tear down the whole mythos and legend of Big Boss (which ironically he's meant to actually further in the context of the universe itself). The twist's in its presentation just comes off as a more hollow and half-assed version of what happened in Metal Gear Solid 2 which actually carried some semblance of narrative weight for its respective game. This just turns up in the latter half as an "oh btw lol".
- I didn't mind KP wanting to try their whole TV thing, but the whole credits sequence bookending every single mission was very dumb and just felt superficial. Where Metal Gear Solid in the larger sense became the mascot for games people like to say "it's just like a movie!" towards, MGSV didn't remind me at all of television in any way, shape or form (which could have been cool). I also still do not know why Chapter 2 exists or why it's fucking called "Race".
- The primary narrative of language as an evil was interesting but its a thread the entire game picks up and drops constantly. It came off as them wanting the theme to be "Language" instead of "Revenge" but had no way of making the former work so they fell back on the latter.
- Chapter 51 actually being in the game wouldn't have helped things at all for me. It sure as hell wouldn't have saved chapter 2 from being a mess. Chapter 1 for all its faults at least felt sort of coherent and reached some sort of conclusion, 2 just highlights how bad and unnecessary the structure inherent to the game itself can get.
- The way the female characters are shown has gotten progressively worse since Sons of Liberty. It was relatively benign when it was the equivalent of a poop joke, but by the time Guns of the Patriots rolled around, it started taking a creepy turn. In MGSV's case it actively tarnishes one of the few interesting characters in Quiet.
- I didn't care about "Shining Lights, Even in Death". This is mostly due to the game itself giving you no real reason to care about the members of mother base outside of an E-S stat rating, so the whole dark edge of taking out your own men is rendered meaningless. I see what they were going for and under the right circumstances, that sequence could have been something really cool. As it is, I felt almost no different from putting them down than I did XOF forces. The Paz stuff ties into this as well, as her death is supposedly meant to carry some great weight with us as the medic, but all she is to me is some weird double agent twenty something I thought I was finally rid of. The whole pathos thing for her in the medical bay is weird and I'm still confused as to why I should care. Peace Walker at least attempted to make Mother Base feel like a home through the abundance of tapes and characters (the major players, the soldiers themselves were still just a stat) and that was all run through a menu. Hell, even a barely named soldier in Portable Ops was given more relevance than any of your men in TPP.
- Hell, I didn't even mind how Keifer sounded but his actual usage in the game outside being a bit more talkative on a few of the tapes was pretty much zilch.
Every cool thing in the game is immediately undermined by something right beside it.
You mean Wolfenstein: The New Order's spot
Anyhow...
People need to let the conspiracy shit go with MGS, already. Kojima pulled off one of the greatest bait and switch twists of all time with Raiden in MGS2, yes. Absolutely. But there has been _nothing_ within a thousand miles of being that clever in GZ or TPP. Not in the games, not in the reveals, etc.
Giant Bomb puts a lot of weight on spectacle, they get swept up in it. It's the "You're an X doing Y in Z." The crazier and more outlandish the factors are, the more they like it. You're a dudebro with a flamethrower in a field of marijuana... with dubstep! You're the President of the United States fighting a former child soldier on the rooftops of Manhattan! You're a guy with a rocket arm getting your face repeatedly pooped on in Soviet-occupied Afghanistan!
BobTheFork
Member
Shit, does that mean weirdos are still going to try and pretend Peace Walker was 5?
I liked the story just fine. It's not supposed to be super cohesive or revolutionary, it's fine.
There are lots of people who hate it and some more who are getting mad that other people don't hate it as much as they do.
You're saying you like Hot Coldman more than Skullface?
I actually felt Chapter 2 wasn't bad. I liked how it was an arc about the fallout and everything going to shit. I didn't play any of the repeat missions, and I feel like the
paz ortega
firehawk12
Subete no aware
This is why it is so broken. They're just there and happen without any context. They arrive as fast as they disappear without any narrative anchoring in the gameplay or previous story beats. Then there are the missions. Even the new unique missions (and story side-ops) are a complete waste of time.
The mission to rescue the CIA agent, for example, involved me just running in a straight line and fultoning a dude, mission accomplished.
But its true. The game in itself is a great addition to the series. Its just not a great way to conclude everything. If this Konami/Kojima stuff wasn't happening people right now would be hyped as fuck for a new MGS game that continues were MGSV left off. The biggest reason people are pissed is because there are so many new questions and none of them will ever be answered because Konami has axed everything including Kojima.
nckillthegrimace
Member
Jeff's idea for MGS5 is brilliant.
Also, the Paz stuff makes way more sense when you remember that Venom is the medic who fucked up by not detecting the second bomb inside of her. Portraying her as Paz and not Pacifica Ocean only serves to heighten that guilt because, hey, his negligence blew up an innocent teenage girl. And the photos totally disappear when she drops them, so yeah.
Also also, the horn pressing on Venom's brain was going to come into play into the cut content where he'd be unable to distinguish colors. But that's not in the game, so that line to Ocelot doesn't mean anything.
Also, the Paz stuff makes way more sense when you remember that Venom is the medic who fucked up by not detecting the second bomb inside of her. Portraying her as Paz and not Pacifica Ocean only serves to heighten that guilt because, hey, his negligence blew up an innocent teenage girl. And the photos totally disappear when she drops them, so yeah.
Also also, the horn pressing on Venom's brain was going to come into play into the cut content where he'd be unable to distinguish colors. But that's not in the game, so that line to Ocelot doesn't mean anything.
Basileus777
Member
The story isn't a great addition to the series. By itself it's a poorly structured story that is incohesive and rambling. The way it ties itself to the rest of the games is bad, it's a mess of retcons and over complications that provide no satisfying answers and none of the questions it raises are compelling beyond the novelty of them.
The funny thing is that after Peace Walker and MGSV, MGS3 by itself is still a far better lead into the modern series than either of them. Everything in the timeline between MGS3 and Metal Gear MSX is unnecessary and mostly just lame.
FantasticMrFoxdie
Mumber
I'm about halfway through it. Podcasts are usually hard for me to sit through, but loving it. Good discussion of both sides of the Hayters & Strangelovers and they are knowledgable about the lore.
and LOL just got to the part where they all agree its the best MGS game. For the most part I agree, don't know how it ranks against the others yet, but its still my GotY so far and up there with the best games ever. I'm also fine with EP51 being cut. The game was so much fun and a great experience. Felt very MGS to me with the meta-ending, the psuedo science, the humor, the pervyness (lol), the baddassery, etc. It was a cool send off for the series.
Oh wow.
and LOL just got to the part where they all agree its the best MGS game. For the most part I agree, don't know how it ranks against the others yet, but its still my GotY so far and up there with the best games ever. I'm also fine with EP51 being cut. The game was so much fun and a great experience. Felt very MGS to me with the meta-ending, the psuedo science, the humor, the pervyness (lol), the baddassery, etc. It was a cool send off for the series.
Oh wow.
Even before Konami axed Kojima, they were promoting this as the link that would tie the story of Big Boss to MG1. The game also spins up plot threads without any intent to finish them. These threads could have easily been excised once they knew that they wouldn't be finishing them.
I think that particular marketing is a big reason why so many hardcore fans are pissed off at the story. People really expected it to be a story the game wasn't really telling, which is entirely Konami's fault. Not that the story is all that great to begin with, but the expectation that created is probably (some of) the reason for the burning hate some people have for it.
I thought it was perfectly fine, but as I said I'm not that into the MGS story and lore so I was mostly looking for good gameplay.
EmCeeGramr
Member
I like how half of MGS4 makes even less sense now.
"And so The Patriots... I mean Cipher, we were Cipher until we started the AIs, which were actually The Patriots... we all had differing views of how to fulfill The Boss's will... except Big Boss, who actually stopped liking The Boss's will after this thing happened involving something called Peace Walker. Anyway, that was the start of the war between Zero and Big Boss... except they really only fought when Pacifica Ocean stole Metal Gear ZEKE, because like that right after that, Big Boss was put into a coma by a rogue underling of Zero's, and Zero decided to protect Big Boss with this crazy scheme - more on that later - and then he went into a vegetative state because of parasites before Big Boss woke up again, I think."
*later, at the graveyard*
"...and so that's how both of Otacon's parents are actually responsible for not only all Metal Gears, but also The Patriots AI. Weird ass coincidence, huh? Anyway, this is the third time you've erased me... well, second, technically, because the first time it was a fake me with plastic surgery and brainwashing. Wait, don't get mad, Snake, I know it was the defining moment of your life that scarred you forever, but it was really important. Besides, he had a robot arm, brown hair, and a horn. I don't know why you didn't notice, since I trained you in FOX-HOUND and I didn't look like that. Did you assume that I suddenly got in a really bad accident but only because self-conscious about greying hair? Hell no, the ladies love this silver fox. Anyway, yeah, I guess someone should have mentioned that there was a second me running around."
"You see, Snake, it just goes to show that anyone can be molded into anyone. I know you told that Raiden kid that that's a horrible idea that can't really be done, but you can. As long as you have magical plastic surgery and brainwashing technology. I guess that last part kind of undermines the moral, but... What was that guy's name...? He might have originally been black or something; it was crazy how much they made him look like me, but couldn't just sand down that horn. Anyway, you'd think that if Cipher in the 1980s knew all about brainwashing and Ocelot's self-hypnosis techniques, then the genius supercomputers of the 2010s that run the world would realize that Ocelot of now was probably pretending to be Liquid, but I guess they forgot or something."
"Speaking of Liquid, I dunno why he apparently said that I 'chose' him and called him inferior. I asked about this from Venom - this was my body double, by the way - and he apparently treated him super nicely for a couple months. Weird. Anyway, he also became friends with little Psycho Mantis, who as a child could actually pilot Metal Gears with his mind, namely a Metal Gear created by Otacon's dad that little Otacon was supposed to be a test pilot for. Again, wacky coincidence, I know."
"Oh, and Kaz was my best friend... Oh, Kaz? You know, Miller? McDonnell? No, his name was Benedict Kazuhira Miller. Half-Japanese? Missing an arm and a leg? Constantly paranoid and pissed off at everything? You don't remember any of this? Guess he mellowed out or something. Though I can't blame him for being pissed, I had this big speech with him about how we'd face the whole world together no matter what, and then I took a nine year nap and the second I woke up I left him high and dry with no explanation. I mean, I might want to take on the whole world, but try getting nearly blown up! I wasn't going to face all of our enemies, like... Skull Man, or whatever. I don't remember if there was anyone else after us. I told the fake me that it was the whole world after him, but I think it was just Cowboy Voldemort. Hmmm. Might have oversold it. Anyway, he managed to take down Skullomania and build up a mercenary fortress while still being in the world's eye so... not sure why it was so important for me to be in hiding to do that. Actually, now that I think about it, I don't know why we didn't give him plastic surgery again to be someone different afterwards. I kept waiting for someone to ask how I could be in America running FOX-HOUND while a guy who recruited people solely on the basis of saying 'I'm Big Boss' was running around the world, but nobody thought twice of that, I guess."
"Anyway, zeroes and ones, no snakes, yadda yadda." [hands Snake cigar]
"This is good, isn't it."
"And so The Patriots... I mean Cipher, we were Cipher until we started the AIs, which were actually The Patriots... we all had differing views of how to fulfill The Boss's will... except Big Boss, who actually stopped liking The Boss's will after this thing happened involving something called Peace Walker. Anyway, that was the start of the war between Zero and Big Boss... except they really only fought when Pacifica Ocean stole Metal Gear ZEKE, because like that right after that, Big Boss was put into a coma by a rogue underling of Zero's, and Zero decided to protect Big Boss with this crazy scheme - more on that later - and then he went into a vegetative state because of parasites before Big Boss woke up again, I think."
*later, at the graveyard*
"...and so that's how both of Otacon's parents are actually responsible for not only all Metal Gears, but also The Patriots AI. Weird ass coincidence, huh? Anyway, this is the third time you've erased me... well, second, technically, because the first time it was a fake me with plastic surgery and brainwashing. Wait, don't get mad, Snake, I know it was the defining moment of your life that scarred you forever, but it was really important. Besides, he had a robot arm, brown hair, and a horn. I don't know why you didn't notice, since I trained you in FOX-HOUND and I didn't look like that. Did you assume that I suddenly got in a really bad accident but only because self-conscious about greying hair? Hell no, the ladies love this silver fox. Anyway, yeah, I guess someone should have mentioned that there was a second me running around."
"You see, Snake, it just goes to show that anyone can be molded into anyone. I know you told that Raiden kid that that's a horrible idea that can't really be done, but you can. As long as you have magical plastic surgery and brainwashing technology. I guess that last part kind of undermines the moral, but... What was that guy's name...? He might have originally been black or something; it was crazy how much they made him look like me, but couldn't just sand down that horn. Anyway, you'd think that if Cipher in the 1980s knew all about brainwashing and Ocelot's self-hypnosis techniques, then the genius supercomputers of the 2010s that run the world would realize that Ocelot of now was probably pretending to be Liquid, but I guess they forgot or something."
"Speaking of Liquid, I dunno why he apparently said that I 'chose' him and called him inferior. I asked about this from Venom - this was my body double, by the way - and he apparently treated him super nicely for a couple months. Weird. Anyway, he also became friends with little Psycho Mantis, who as a child could actually pilot Metal Gears with his mind, namely a Metal Gear created by Otacon's dad that little Otacon was supposed to be a test pilot for. Again, wacky coincidence, I know."
"Oh, and Kaz was my best friend... Oh, Kaz? You know, Miller? McDonnell? No, his name was Benedict Kazuhira Miller. Half-Japanese? Missing an arm and a leg? Constantly paranoid and pissed off at everything? You don't remember any of this? Guess he mellowed out or something. Though I can't blame him for being pissed, I had this big speech with him about how we'd face the whole world together no matter what, and then I took a nine year nap and the second I woke up I left him high and dry with no explanation. I mean, I might want to take on the whole world, but try getting nearly blown up! I wasn't going to face all of our enemies, like... Skull Man, or whatever. I don't remember if there was anyone else after us. I told the fake me that it was the whole world after him, but I think it was just Cowboy Voldemort. Hmmm. Might have oversold it. Anyway, he managed to take down Skullomania and build up a mercenary fortress while still being in the world's eye so... not sure why it was so important for me to be in hiding to do that. Actually, now that I think about it, I don't know why we didn't give him plastic surgery again to be someone different afterwards. I kept waiting for someone to ask how I could be in America running FOX-HOUND while a guy who recruited people solely on the basis of saying 'I'm Big Boss' was running around the world, but nobody thought twice of that, I guess."
"Anyway, zeroes and ones, no snakes, yadda yadda." [hands Snake cigar]
"This is good, isn't it."
mattiewheels
And then the LORD David Bowie saith to his Son, Jonny Depp: 'Go, and spread my image amongst the cosmos. For every living thing is in anguish and only the LIGHT shall give them reprieve.'
I really do like the idea that real way to make Big Boss's legend so great was to have a double carrying on in another part of the world. I totally buy that as something BB knew he needed to accomplish what he was going for.
Yeah, all I thought of was the real reason Kaz was so antagonistic to you after the reveal. The whole good cop bad cop thing made sense at that point.
And I also really love the idea that it was not technically MGS 5, it was MGS Vee. That's probably the first thing that went through my mind when the big reveal came, and it's one of the coolest little mindfucks in a history of them.
Yeah, all I thought of was the real reason Kaz was so antagonistic to you after the reveal. The whole good cop bad cop thing made sense at that point.
And I also really love the idea that it was not technically MGS 5, it was MGS Vee. That's probably the first thing that went through my mind when the big reveal came, and it's one of the coolest little mindfucks in a history of them.
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
The Paz stuff was some of my favorite story stuff in the game, Dan should really finish it. It all being pent up guilt in Venom's subconscious leaking out was good, there should have been more of that.
Misterinenja
Member
Friday In Love also bothered me way too much.
CrichtonKicks
Member
So before Kojima/Konami split, has Kojima said anything about "this will be my last MGS" since MGS4? Maybe I missed it but I don't recall any of that. It seems like by concluding the entire saga with MGS4 he felt the freedom to just focus on the gameplay and stories that interested him instead of worrying about giving fans closure.
Which is just basically me asking did Kojima (ie not Konami) ever say that MGSV was this big missing link game and the final game in the Big Boss Trilogy or something to that effect? I just have this feeling that his batteries were actually pretty well recharged with the move to open world and he might very well have been intending more MGS after V. But as soon as the split went down it just felt like there was this major transition to "The Final Metal Gear game bring the saga to a close" which has put a really warped set of expectations on it.
So you can look at them.Retcons and overcomplications? Are you talking about every single other metal gear solid game? I feel like MGS4's treatment of the patriots storyline and zero felt completely out of left field, and that MGSV offers a much better divulgence of that story and it actually characterizes zero in a satisfying way. MGSV is best as a lead-in to MGS4. It's the setup for the payoff of 4. (It fixes that game's narrative problems, and here's to you being at the start of GZ and then at the end of 4 again as paz's favorite song is a great bookend.) It also makes the graveyard scene actually matter and be about something, instead of nothing.
Here's something I just thought of. Maybe the grave of big boss in 4 actually contains venom's body, as BB's way of honoring him for his loyalty?
Zomba13
Member
This is how I feel. I was all in for a Metal Gear Scanlon V before the game came out but after playing it? Nah, I'll pass. The best bits of Metal Gear Scanlon are seeing Drew react to the crazy batshit insane plot points and pulling out clutch wins against crazy batshit insane bosses. This game lacks both of those and has the best controls and mechanics meaning Drew will probably be fine playing it.
It'll be 50 episodes or Drew playing an open world game and doing ok at it and occasionally asking Dan if he should play the tapes and them debating whether he should listen to them in his own time or have a good chunk of each episode devoted to them not saying anything and just playing tape audio.
Yes, we are all aware that V is the Roman numeral for 5. However, there is obviously a double meaning because the Roman numeral was used rather than the Arabic one.
CrichtonKicks
Member
It's an obvious play on 5, yes. But I think Kojima is saying that he would call it "Metal Gear Solid Vee".
That's what I'm saying. People are going to covince themselves there was going to be a real five though
Zomba13
Member
MGS conspiracy nuts are crazy and will convince themselves of 9/11 being a Kojima marketing stunt because kojima da goddddddzzzzzz.
Best to just ignore them.
Dragon Puncher
Member
<3 Let me just take this moment to say that I always enjoy you MGS "reenactments" Emcee.
I'm a huge fan of the MGS story for all the crazy shit it does that you just don't see anywere else, but anyone should be able to see by now that Kojima never gave a shit about continuity. Each game since original MGS has made the whole storyline dumber and retcons at least 10 things from past games to make them fit into whatever philosophical themes Kojima was way into at the time.
Corpsepyre
Banned
Let me just say that I greatly enjoyed my time with the game, gameplay-wise and for story reasons too. I was heavily invested into it from the get-go, and that prologue stirred things up quite nicely. Sure, some of the missions should have been included in the side ops rather than the main quest, and it could have been shorter, but I loved it all the same. When the story starts unraveling later in the first chapter, I was completely absorbed and wanted to know more. The first chapter ended with a bang as well, and I especially enjoyed how Skull Face met his end. Was brutal and cathartic. I thought his agenda was interesting as well, though quite over-the-top. But that's one of the reasons why I love the series.
My only qualms are that there could have been some more bosses. I wanted a full fledged open world encounter that made use of the level design. Also, I wanted to SEE more of what was being said in the audio tapes, but I understand how expensive it can get.
Mission 43, and the ending, smacked me right in the face and left me reeling. Mission 43, especially, will be remembered for quite some time. The emotions it generated when the soldiers give up to Phantom, had me questioning what I was doing, and that rarely happens in games. I felt horrible, and that's what Kojima intended, I believe.
There's just so much I can write about this game, and I will definitely play it again to connect the dots further.
My only qualms are that there could have been some more bosses. I wanted a full fledged open world encounter that made use of the level design. Also, I wanted to SEE more of what was being said in the audio tapes, but I understand how expensive it can get.
Mission 43, and the ending, smacked me right in the face and left me reeling. Mission 43, especially, will be remembered for quite some time. The emotions it generated when the soldiers give up to Phantom, had me questioning what I was doing, and that rarely happens in games. I felt horrible, and that's what Kojima intended, I believe.
There's just so much I can write about this game, and I will definitely play it again to connect the dots further.
CoolBatteryCharge
Member
This is the first time I've seen someone else point out what my issue with the twist is. It's not that you play as a fake; it's that Big Boss and Zero worked together for this decade long plan that continued for like another decade at the least. The entire series is predicated on the war between them. THERE WAS NO WAR. Nothing in the series beyond this point matters anymore unless Metal Gear Solid 6 is gonna twist with "BUT IT WAS ME, SIGINT! I got plastic surgery and hypnosis to trick myself into thinking I was Zero the whole time! But then I had to get it all reversed in time for Shadow Moses."
Yeah! This is the oddest thing about their discussion. Brad's insistence on New Criticism to analyze the game, analysis of the work as a autonomous body divorced from any outside context, creates the idea that everything in the final product was an intended choice in development and not that the game hobbled to the finish line as corporate relations fell apart.
EDIT: I'm at the part where they begin to contradict themselves and say yeah a lot of stuff was probably cut from the game.
One thing that stood out to me was that Jeff's really positive comments on the story of MGSV were actually super cynical and backhanded in regards to the rest of the franchise. Ideas that it's just like Metal Gear to say "fuck you" to the player doesn't really make a lot of sense to me -- that's not what the Raiden "twist" seemed to be in 2, the twist related directly to the themes and tenants of that game -- where as in MGSV it kind of feels like the game wants to have it's Big Boss flavored cake and eat it too. Also the idea of having a whole game dedicated to the conclusion of the Eli / Salanthropus story is not something I can get on board with, it's fine not to tie up everything in the game in a neat little bow, but that not being resolved (even without knowing of mission 51 at this point) was incredibly unsatisfying in THIS game, it hardly deserves it's own standalone experience (maybe dlc, maybe), it doesn't have the legs to support an entire game.
Also -- I'm way more on board with the Paz story after my initial "what was the point of all that?". Considering the medics role in the Paz's demise and the responsibility and guilt the medic must subconsciously have for not saving her, I really like it. Although considering that the Paz content can come and go long before you ever play the 'Truth' mission, makes it not crazy obvious what the point of it was, it strengthens Venom's character immensely.
Also -- I'm way more on board with the Paz story after my initial "what was the point of all that?". Considering the medics role in the Paz's demise and the responsibility and guilt the medic must subconsciously have for not saving her, I really like it. Although considering that the Paz content can come and go long before you ever play the 'Truth' mission, makes it not crazy obvious what the point of it was, it strengthens Venom's character immensely.
GhostTrick
Banned
Perfect. This should be first post everywhere to explain why V has a terrible plot.
Should be used to explain why 4 and PW have a terrible plot too.
Doesnt sound like he dislikes what's in chapter 2 bonus or not. I agree with Jeff it should have been called the epilogue
Regardless of what it is called, the mission and cutscene structure is disjointed. A good epilogue is short and to the point.
It is ridiculous that they had that preview of the events of chapter 2. That and a few other things should have been cut. Chapter 2/epilogue ought to have been just mission 43,45 and 46 with narrative glue to set those up and tie them together.