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[Alienous]

I like how half of MGS4 makes even less sense now.

"And so The Patriots... I mean Cipher, we were Cipher until we started the AIs, which were actually The Patriots... we all had differing views of how to fulfill The Boss's will... except Big Boss, who actually stopped liking The Boss's will after this thing happened involving something called Peace Walker. Anyway, that was the start of the war between Zero and Big Boss... except they really only fought when Pacifica Ocean stole Metal Gear ZEKE, because like that right after that, Big Boss was put into a coma by a rogue underling of Zero's, and Zero decided to protect Big Boss with this crazy scheme - more on that later - and then he went into a vegetative state because of parasites before Big Boss woke up again, I think."


*later, at the graveyard*


"...and so that's how both of Otacon's parents are actually responsible for not only all Metal Gears, but also The Patriots AI. Weird ass coincidence, huh? Anyway, this is the third time you've erased me... well, second, technically, because the first time it was a fake me with plastic surgery and brainwashing. Wait, don't get mad, Snake, I know it was the defining moment of your life that scarred you forever, but it was really important. Besides, he had a robot arm, brown hair, and a horn. I don't know why you didn't notice, since I trained you in FOX-HOUND and I didn't look like that. Did you assume that I suddenly got in a really bad accident but only because self-conscious about greying hair? Hell no, the ladies love this silver fox. Anyway, yeah, I guess someone should have mentioned that there was a second me running around."

"You see, Snake, it just goes to show that anyone can be molded into anyone. I know you told that Raiden kid that that's a horrible idea that can't really be done, but you can. As long as you have magical plastic surgery and brainwashing technology. I guess that last part kind of undermines the moral, but... What was that guy's name...? He might have originally been black or something; it was crazy how much they made him look like me, but couldn't just sand down that horn. Anyway, you'd think that if Cipher in the 1980s knew all about brainwashing and Ocelot's self-hypnosis techniques, then the genius supercomputers of the 2010s that run the world would realize that Ocelot of now was probably pretending to be Liquid, but I guess they forgot or something."

"Speaking of Liquid, I dunno why he apparently said that I 'chose' him and called him inferior. I asked about this from Venom - this was my body double, by the way - and he apparently treated him super nicely for a couple months. Weird. Anyway, he also became friends with little Psycho Mantis, who as a child could actually pilot Metal Gears with his mind, namely a Metal Gear created by Otacon's dad that little Otacon was supposed to be a test pilot for. Again, wacky coincidence, I know."

"Oh, and Kaz was my best friend... Oh, Kaz? You know, Miller? McDonnell? No, his name was Benedict Kazuhira Miller. Half-Japanese? Missing an arm and a leg? Constantly paranoid and pissed off at everything? You don't remember any of this? Guess he mellowed out or something. Though I can't blame him for being pissed, I had this big speech with him about how we'd face the whole world together no matter what, and then I took a nine year nap and the second I woke up I left him high and dry with no explanation. I mean, I might want to take on the whole world, but try getting nearly blown up! I wasn't going to face all of our enemies, like... Skull Man, or whatever. I don't remember if there was anyone else after us. I told the fake me that it was the whole world after him, but I think it was just Cowboy Voldemort. Hmmm. Might have oversold it. Anyway, he managed to take down Skullomania and build up a mercenary fortress while still being in the world's eye so... not sure why it was so important for me to be in hiding to do that. Actually, now that I think about it, I don't know why we didn't give him plastic surgery again to be someone different afterwards. I kept waiting for someone to ask how I could be in America running FOX-HOUND while a guy who recruited people solely on the basis of saying 'I'm Big Boss' was running around the world, but nobody thought twice of that, I guess."

"Anyway, zeroes and ones, no snakes, yadda yadda." [hands Snake cigar]

"This is good, isn't it."

... *sigh*

Yeah, Metal Gear Solid's continuity is a dud.

 

[Flipyap]

It REALLY annoys me that Dan sees chapter 2 as just a bonus, and somehow its bullshit gets a pass because of that? Fuck off.

It's a part of the game, it is not a bonus.

It's not just a part of the game, it's the part where pretty much everything of consequence happens. The first chapter disposes of an irrelevant antagonist, but it's Chapter 2 where all of those plot lines introduced and shelved early on are finally developed (and abandoned part-way, but that's another story). You go into Chapter 2 expecting to finally see ANYTHING related to the supposed premise of "becoming a demon," not to see some "bonus fun stuff."
The most exciting dramatic beat of Chapter 1 plays out entirely in the staff management menu. I know it's Dan Ryckert, but I don't understand how anyone could claim that they'd be satisfied if it ended right there.

 

[Liamc723]

It's not just a part of the game, it's the part where pretty much everything of consequence happens. The first chapter disposes of an irrelevant antagonist, but it's Chapter 2 where all of those plot lines introduced and shelved early on are finally developed (and abandoned part-way, but that's another story). You go into Chapter 2 expecting to finally see ANYTHING related to the supposed premise of "becoming a demon," not to see some "bonus fun stuff."
The most exciting dramatic beat of Chapter 1 plays out entirely in the staff management menu. I know it's Dan Ryckert, but I don't understand how anyone could claim that they'd be satisfied if it ended right there.

I think the fact it's Dan Ryckert makes it even more baffling. This guy claims to love the franchise's story, so to hear him happy with the twist and the story as a whole is insane to me.

The story here is bad and sparse, and that's as close to a fact as you can get. The story is poor up to the end of chapter 1, and Skullface is garbage as an enemy. We didn't get what we were supposed to get with The Phantom Pain, and seeing Dan happy about that is ridiculous.

 

[NumberThree]

...

So MGSV's story really

Spoiler

kept you typing, huh?

 

[CambriaRising]

I think the fact it's Dan Ryckert makes it even more baffling. This guy claims to love the franchise's story, so to hear him happy with the twist and the story as a whole is insane to me.

The story here is bad and sparse, and that's as close to a fact as you can get. The story is poor up to the end of chapter 1, and Skullface is garbage as an enemy. We didn't get what we were supposed to get with The Phantom Pain, and seeing Dan happy about that is ridiculous.

This is the third time I've seen someone say that the story is bad as a "fact". As if it's invalid to like what is here.

There is nothing ridiculous about him being pleased with the game and it's story. The only people being ridiculous here are the ones perpetuating this weird "no true Scotsman" ideal.

 

[Liamc723]

This is the third time I've seen someone say that the story is bad as a "fact". As if it's invalid to like what is here.

There is nothing ridiculous about him being pleased with the game and it's story. The only people being ridiculous here are the ones perpetuating this weird "no true Scotsman" ideal.

How can someone who loves the series, be pleased with an unfinished story that doesn't affect the series in any way, and leaves huge plot holes? The story here is a complete joke compared to everything that has proceeded it. You could take TPP out of the MGS timeline and hardly anything would change. It is bad.

 

[Misterinenja]

How can someone who loves the series, be pleased with an unfinished story that doesn't affect the series in any way, and leaves huge plot holes? The story here is a complete joke compared to everything that has proceeded it. You could take TPP out of the MGS timeline and hardly anything would change. It is bad.

How can people take out different things out of a video game story?

You're not some authority on Metal Gear stories and it's really obnoxious that you can't stop acting like one.

That said, great podcast guys.

 

[Liamc723]

How can people take out different things out of a video game story?

You're not some authority on Metal Gear stories and it's really obnoxious that you can't stop acting like one.

That said, great podcast guys.

Go into the spoiler thread, and you'll find an overwhelming majority of people that think the story is bad. It's not just me. When there's this many people who actually know a thing or two about the story that say there's big problems, I think there's something up.

 

[RE_Player]

How can someone who loves the series, be pleased with an unfinished story that doesn't affect the series in any way, and leaves huge plot holes? The story here is a complete joke compared to everything that has proceeded it. You could take TPP out of the MGS timeline and hardly anything would change. It is bad.

I love the little things it fills in regarding the old Metal Gear games. That in itself was enough for me. I wasn't expecting some revelatory story that would fill in every gap across the series. Like others have said its weird that some people are just flat out stating the story is bad as fact. It's a matter of taste in most cases.

 

[hamchan]

Go into the spoiler thread, and you'll find an overwhelming majority of people that think the story is bad. It's not just me. When there's this many people who actually know a thing or two about the story that say there's big problems, I think there's something up.

MGS4 got the same huge backlash on GAF and let's not forget the internet outrage over MGS2. It really is very typical of MGS games.

 

[Jintor]

very carthartic thread

game story still sucks

I love the little things it fills in regarding the old Metal Gear games. That in itself was enough for me. I wasn't expecting some revelatory story that would fill in every gap across the series. Like others have said its weird that some people are just flat out stating the story is bad as fact. It's a matter of taste in most cases.

I think on the basis that eli rides off into the sunset with a metal gear and a parasite and the game doesn't resolve it in any way I think that's enough to render at least that chapter's overall story (and consequentially a lot of the game's story) pretty bad. Pre-emptively, I don't think it's comparable to Ocelot stealing a RAY and riding off into the sunset because Raiden's story still gets resolved there even if Snake's doesn't, whereas the kids stealing Sahalanthropus is kind of half the point of Chapter 2.

I don't think that bit in particular is a matter of taste. It's completely, undeniably unresolved.

 

[Misterinenja]

Go into the spoiler thread, and you'll find an overwhelming majority of people that think the story is bad. It's not just me. When there's this many people who actually know a thing or two about the story that say there's big problems, I think there's something up.

I've been to that echo chamber and that doesn't change the fact that people can have different opinions and find enjoyment from this games story even if it might be unfinished, subjectively unsatisfying or bad.

Again no one is an authority to tell other people what they should think about a ridiculous video game stories. Everyone's entitled to their opinions but that shit is just embarrassing and tiring to read in every thread.

Maybe, just maybe, they're right.

Whole plot points are left unresolved. You can't have an opinion on that, that is bad and that is a fact.

Yeah whatever man.

 

[pizzacat]

Ha you guys are gunna get passed when this wins goty

 

[Liamc723]

I've been to that echo chamber

Maybe, just maybe, they're right.

Whole plot points are left unresolved. You can't have an opinion on that, that is bad and that is a fact.

 

[Jintor]

i'd vaguely considered the idea of MGSV v MGS5 but hearing Jeff enthuse about it really made me think, if that's where they're truly going (or were intended to go), would probably be one of - perhaps the single most - audacious stunt in the entire industry.

 

[funkystudent]

I dont hate the twist. I just think it was handled poorly.

It was clearly a thing Kojima was planning since they first started talking about the game. Loads of things in the marketing / trailers point to it now that you look back on them. But even with that, in the final product it comes across as a twist inserted at the last moment for the sake of a twist.



Overall the story just feels incomplete and missing a final act. Plot threads are left hanging. Miller who seem like they should have some kind of conclusion to their arch simply dont. Ellie story ending was left on the cutting room floor for unknown reasons. The Truth ending just randomly unlocking after you meet some requirements and with no build up.

At this stage its hard to tell exactly what went wrong. Was it simply Konami putting its foot down and getting them to ship what they had? Was it Kojimas writing missing the mark? Was it a result of not being able to get Keifer in the recording room enough times?

Who knows.


Biggest disappointment for me though is none of Kojimas trademark 4th wall weirdness. You put Psycho Mantis in this damn thing and never use him for anything other then a excuse to explain some supernatural bullshit. Maybe it was the cost of going multiplatform that they couldnt play with system level features as much. Maybe all those designers just used PT to get it out of their system.



The game itself is still amazing though. Its like what every Ubisoft game sells itself as but never truly becomes.

 

[CrichtonKicks]

Maybe, just maybe, they're right.

Whole plot points are left unresolved. You can't have an opinion on that, that is bad and that is a fact.

Again same applies to MGS2. And that was supposed to be the last MGS as well.

 

[SMZC]

Ha you guys are gunna get passed when this wins goty

The plot is so bad that it's hard not to be disappointed at some level, but even then, the gameplay is so insanely good that any GOTY awards will indeed be well deserved. Hell, game of the century I would call it, even.

 

[Zomba13]

Again same applies to MGS2. And that was supposed to be the last MGS as well.

But in the case of MGSV those plot points were planned to be resolved. There was an ending to the whole thing with Eli and the parasites. They just didn't finish it.

It's one thing to have a plot point left hanging for a possible sequel but another completely to leave it hanging after actually planning to resolve it and even putting it on a bonus bluray as a 20 minute movie.

 

[Jintor]

The plot is so bad that it's hard not to be disappointed at some level, but even then, the gameplay is so insanely good that any GOTY awards will indeed be well deserved. Hell, game of the century I would call it, even.

the systems are so insanely good that it makes the deficits to me stand out more :<

You can't CQC choke out skull snipers or Quiet if you can manage to sneak up on them. You can't transition from a vault animation to a ledgegrab so I've fallen off three story buildings by accident like seven times. Climbing rocks is fucked, half the time you vault and slide backwards off it. Crack climbing is almost never in places you think it would be. Mother Base is an empty void of nothingness and masochistic stockholm syndrome survivors with nothing to do. The world is pretty much lifeless outside of mission sandboxes and the occasional jeep/truck patrol :<

And yet I've like 110 hours on Steam. *shrug*

I just like my helicoptor running in blasting music too much. Wish they had a randomise function built into the custom music folder.

 

[family_guy]

It's one of the most horribly edited games I've played in awhile. Kojima failed in his job as a director in this.

 

[AHA-Lambda]

Friday In Love also bothered me way too much.

Same here, someone fucked up there.

 

[bishopcruz]

Liked the spoiler cast. Still amazed that there were some people who didn't care about mission 43. That was the emotional high point of the game for me, the reactions of the soldiers really sold it for me.

The main thing I disagreed with them on was the Paz angle. The Paz stuff in this game was probably the most important part of explaining the character of Venom snake in the entire game. Venom has the memories of Big Boss, THINKS he is Big Boss, but clearly isn't. He is guilty as hell about letting Paz die, and as a result causing the whole mess they are in now. I mean, he literally is carrying her with him at all times. All those bits of bone are hers. It's messed up, but it makes sense as a hallucination. The dream version of Ground Zeroes makes the crash not his fault.

Venom wants to save people, it's why he doesn't kill quiet, it shows in the stuff with the kids, and it's why losing mission 51 was such a major blow to Venom's arc. He goes from an idealistic version of BB, to basically leaving a 13 year old to be torched or shoot himself.

 

[CambriaRising]

Maybe, just maybe, they're right.

Whole plot points are left unresolved. You can't have an opinion on that, that is bad and that is a fact.

There have been plenty of people who really liked the story pushed out of that thread because of its toxicity. I've seen it first hand.

 

[mattiewheels]

It's one of the most horribly edited games I've played in awhile. Kojima failed in his job as a director in this.

That sounds like you're describing 4. He did a much better job directing scenes in this one I think, the storytelling is much more visual and action based than full of dialogue, at least.

 

[JerkShep]

It's funny that the more the Big Boss saga went on, the conclusion became less and less satysfing.

MGS3 was a perfect point to stop, you could infer a lot from the ending while leaving details of what would happen to the imagination.
Portable Ops was nothing spectacular but at least established FOXHOUND, how Zero got hold of the Legacy and Big Boss obtained the founds to build Outer Heaven in the future from Gene.
Peace Walker had a final good speech but it almost ruined The Boss as a character and skipped over one of the most important moments of Big Boss life: the actual foundation of the Patriots and the beginning of the LET project. And after PW it made even less sense that Big Boss would return to America as FOXHOUND commander
Phantom Pain....I don't even know where to start. At best is an inconsequential story, with an inconsequential protagonist, that depicts Big Boss as a lame coward

 

[54-46!]

While I agree that MGS V has the best controls and moment to moment action, to say that it's obvious that it has the best gameplay out all the games is a pretty broad statement. The bosses in V were absolutley terrible and the level design was also very underwhelming.

 

[hamchan]

While I agree that MGS V has the best controls and moment to moment action, to say that it's obvious that it has the best gameplay out all the games is a pretty broad statement. The bosses in V were absolutley terrible and the level design was also very underwhelming.

Have to disagree about the level design. Thought each big base was pretty fun to traverse with the multiple paths available through them.

 

[Herbs]

Wow. Didn't even put together the idea that this isn't a true sequel. Love getting the differing point of views.

 

[Jintor]

Have to disagree about the level design. Thought each big base was pretty fun to traverse with the multiple paths available through them.

The more I fiddle with them the less satisfied I am. The only ones I'm really into are Code Mansion and the Airport and to a limited extent the central soviet base, but most of the bases seem kind of generic, one story buildings, not a lot of places you can enter in places that look big (a couple of the Afghan Villages).

Basically a lot of places that don't have great sightline breakage or are just visually kind of uninteresting.

 

[CrichtonKicks]

It's funny that the more the Big Boss saga went on, the conclusion became less and less satysfing.

MGS3 was a perfect point to stop, you could infer a lot from the ending while leaving details of what would happen to the imagination.
Portable Ops was nothing spectacular but at least established FOXHOUND, how Zero got hold of the Legacy and Big Boss obtained the founds to build Outer Heaven in the future from Gene.
Peace Walker had a final good speech but it almost ruined The Boss as a character and skipped over one of the most important moments of Big Boss life: the actual foundation of the Patriots and the beginning of the LET project. And after PW it made even less sense that Big Boss would return to America as FOXHOUND commander
Phantom Pain....I don't even know where to start. At best is an inconsequential story, with an inconsequential protagonist, that depicts Big Boss as a lame coward

This is honestly the only thing in the entire MGS timeline that I would still like to see play out (at least before Kojima left). Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be much foundation for an actual game in that part of the story. Still, it would have been cool if PW or TPP had some unlockable cassettes that had recordings from that period.

 

[Ratrat]

It's one of the most horribly edited games I've played in awhile. Kojima failed in his job as a director in this.

lol. that's 2&4 dude. Granted 5 is also messed. It would have been better if they merely removed some missioms to make it flow better. 30 hours instead of 50 would have been just fine.

 

[Curufinwe]

I had a lot of trouble with Quiet's Exit... until I remembered I could call in bombardments, and went up in the building and found ammo. It was easy to hide from the helicopter up there and shoot rockets at the tanks on the ground.