I wouldn't really call bengazi manufactured, the email thing sure, but with that said, the lady has two decades of baggage she has to tote around that she will have to answer for when running. Perhaps voters don't care as all of it is in the past, but you can't really blame the Democrats for looking at alternatives like Bernie, Kerry and Biden.
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GOP Primary Debate [Iowa 2016] It's over! Get me out of here.
- Thread starter B-Dubs
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And against other potential Dem candidates. The only one that could beat her right now is Obama :lol
I would. The outrage was a fucking joke.
I mean look, I'm not the biggest fan of her either. I'd rather have Bernie... and could definitely be persuaded to vote Biden over her. That said, she's pretty goddamned qualified, and a lot of the things against her are silly as hell.
Benghazi is the exact definition of manufactured.
balladofwindfishes
Member
How is the Clinton name a double edged sword? He's still extremely popular. Everyone loves Bill.
I don't agree. The Bush name is still very toxic.
Souldriver
Member
"Trump speaks the truth / is honest" is a wrong.
He replaces the lies and obfuscation of truth some candidates tend to do with simply refusing to tell anything at all and going "fuck you!" when he's asked a question.
The idea that people flock to him because of that is terrifying. He's refreshing as a contrast to - and complaint on - typical politican messaging, but he doesn't offer a worthwhile alternative at all. If all politicians were like Trump, we'd be even worse off than with the shitfest we have now.
He replaces the lies and obfuscation of truth some candidates tend to do with simply refusing to tell anything at all and going "fuck you!" when he's asked a question.
The idea that people flock to him because of that is terrifying. He's refreshing as a contrast to - and complaint on - typical politican messaging, but he doesn't offer a worthwhile alternative at all. If all politicians were like Trump, we'd be even worse off than with the shitfest we have now.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
It comes with a huge boost of popularity, but it also makes Republican attacks twice as vicious and can create internal tension among those who believe she's got there by other means than merit. The backstabbing is real.
Losing again against a Clinton would be a tremendous embarrassment for the GOP and its base. They are going to do their best not to allow it.
As I see it, the Clinton surname is a force multiplier that comes with some potentially huge penalties. What I mean is that she had to work her ass out to reach and maintain her current position, which is not something you can easily do in politics because you have a popular husband.
MrPressStart
Member
She has not learned to use the correct email addy for one.
Which is why the entire party is bullshit. Marco Rubio got big laughs by invoking the ghost of El Chapo burying a tunnel under Trump's proposed wall at the border. But in the very same sentence he said he agreed that a wall should be built. The party is a joke.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
MrPressStart
Member
Well, I w ill say that she is as qualified as Trump and Carson.... but still, I dont think she is what the Democrats need. Just my 2 cents, but I just don't see it.
Not only this, but it's been thoroughly prosecuted across several committees - and a presidential campaign. The American electorate has rendered their judgement, and they're going to find this re-re-re-re-...-re-prosecution of the matter very tiresome. They don't give a damn at this point.
And while he's too moderate for my tastes, Bill Clinton is going to be a huge asset. I remember it well when his campaign sold Bill and Hillary as a "co-presidency" in 1992, and I could easily see it happening again. His approval ratings along the general electorate are still stellar (especially when compared to other politicians), memories of the Clinton Era are still very fond (even across party lines), and he may be the most effective salesman the modern Democratic Party has had in several generations. His 2012 convention speech may have been one of the best in history; I have no doubt that he'd go all-out to get back to the White House.
If he's hopping around the electoral map come this time next year, it's almost not fair for Hillary's opponent. The campaign is going to crank-up Fleetwood Mac, and female voters are going to friggin' swoon.
Maybe initially everyone called him 'Numbnuts,' but eventually he won enough respect for them to address him with his actual name. Well done, sir.
Yeah now that I think about it he would totally propose tithing and water boarding if he felt he could pass it through parliament.
Eighty Deuce
Banned
Manufactured with dead Americans and shifting the blame to a random hack filmmaker because it happened under your watch. Regardless BENGAZI BENGAZI BENGAZI right?👹
Literally everyone.
Wolfgunblood Garopa
Member
Standard issue privatize anything and everything you can get away with Republican. Education in Ohio has suffered under him, as he directed funds away from struggling public schools to charter schools who basically piss that money away, and for vouchers for private schools which are mostly religious. Lower middle class families who send their kids to public schools are seeing cuts to their schools while their tax dollars go more to vouchers and charter schools that are mostly taken advantage of by families higher on the socioeconomic ladder. The achievement gap has widened.
NyMartin90
Member
woke up to this
CAN'T STUMP THE TRUMP
CAN'T STUMP THE TRUMP
Lmao
Do you think Elizabeth Warren is qualified? Maybe Kirsten Gillibrand?
I don't even know what you're saying here.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
I honestly don't know where are you getting that from. Even if you dislike her, you have to recognize that she has an absurd amount of experience working at the highest levels of politics, nationally and internationally. She's way more than qualified. I think there's a huge chance she'll be a bad president, but that doesn't mean she's not qualified.
As for Trump and Carson... well...
woke up to this
CAN'T STUMP THE TRUMP
Where is that from?
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
I do NOT get the "Carson won" stuff. He answered NOTHING.
Eighty Deuce
Banned
I'm tired of people blowing off the fact that our people died, it belittles their sacrifice. It's bullshit that NO ONE has been held responsible.
Aside from the fact that you're essentially advocating for minorities to roll over for racists, don't you at least see an issue with a potential president of the United States stereotyping a minority group as rapists and murderers?
People die in politically dangerous areas of the world, it's a real danger being faced right now by hundreds of government employees. Hillary Clinton didn't actively participate in their deaths or their defense. If anything, the GOP congress did more to ensure that those few people died.
He's always like that! He's got a different kind of charisma and he is a likeable guy.
Wolfgunblood Garopa
Member
Look for the other Republican candidates to start telling us how smart they are, pointing to their brain while saying so.
Fenderputty
Banned
Who was responsible?
I think Fox knew that it would be overkill. But he recently said that he's not religious in front of a bunch of evangelicals recently.
RustyNails
Member
"God is a loser"
As far as I know they caught and or killed all those responsible for heading up the attack on the embassy.
Is this trolling? I'm not he biggest political dude, so don't know where exactly to go for these polls everyone references. But a quick google search shows Hillary at the top of every poll discussion.
Are there links to polls that say otherwise?
Random thoughts:
The kids table debate was humiliating. Why hold it in the same place as the regular debate if you couldn't get an audience in and out in time? And why continuously show the empty theater on camera? And why not address the fact that the stadium is empty for the viewers at home?
Fiorina probably helped herself a little. If she can sneak in to the next main stage, she could do some damage. Of course, it helped that she was against the lightweights last night. And FYI Fox News, you referred to every candidate as "Governor Whoever" or "Senator Whoever," except for Carly Fiorina, who you addressed as just "Carly."
Graham looked and sounded like he was about to cry. Not a good look when every word you say is WAR WAR WAR. Hopefully McCain was there to give him a hug afterwards. I predict he's first out of the race.
Rick Perry got the most obvious question of the night, are you ready to be president? The answer apparently is 'no,' as he hemmed and hawed through a very awkward response that quickly devolved into talking points.
Jim Gilmore is wasting his time.
Santorum was a little less frothy than usual. It doesn't matter at this point. Repub voters know all they need to know about him and they've moved on.
Trump was Trump. It was obvious to me that Fox was trying to sink him, except they let him off the hook on religion. I was certain they were going to ask him something about his faith toward the end but it never happened. Bold prediction, if Trump needs a boost at some point, he'll have a "saved" experience and suddenly start talking like Frothy.
Dr Carson was hilarious. The moderators basically said, "you don't know anything, right?" Then proceeded to ignore him for 45 minutes. When he did get to talk again, apparently his big ideas are shifting the tax burden to the poor and reinstating torture. Go with what works, I guess.
John Ellis Bush Bush was weak. The "I earned the name JEB" made no sense at all. So called Establishment Republicans have got to be worried at this point.
Scott Walker was asked if he'd let a woman die rather than have an abortion. He responded with his talking points, so essentially, yes he would. He also looked silly on the rare occasions that Carson was speaking, watching him smiling and nodding like a preschooler watching a puppet show.
Marco Rubio let us know that the most qualified candidate running is Hillary Clinton. Ok then. Sounded like he needed a sip of water all night too.
Mike Huckabee was even more ridiculous than I had expected. TLDR: tax whores, increase military so they can kill more people and break more stuff.
I can't tell if Ted Cruz is an idiot or if he thinks Republican primary voters are idiots. Either way he was his usual semi-creepy self and didn't win over anyone.
John Kasich has some reasonable stances on a few issues, which means he'll be Huntsman'd within a couple weeks.
The kids table debate was humiliating. Why hold it in the same place as the regular debate if you couldn't get an audience in and out in time? And why continuously show the empty theater on camera? And why not address the fact that the stadium is empty for the viewers at home?
Fiorina probably helped herself a little. If she can sneak in to the next main stage, she could do some damage. Of course, it helped that she was against the lightweights last night. And FYI Fox News, you referred to every candidate as "Governor Whoever" or "Senator Whoever," except for Carly Fiorina, who you addressed as just "Carly."
Graham looked and sounded like he was about to cry. Not a good look when every word you say is WAR WAR WAR. Hopefully McCain was there to give him a hug afterwards. I predict he's first out of the race.
Rick Perry got the most obvious question of the night, are you ready to be president? The answer apparently is 'no,' as he hemmed and hawed through a very awkward response that quickly devolved into talking points.
Jim Gilmore is wasting his time.
Santorum was a little less frothy than usual. It doesn't matter at this point. Repub voters know all they need to know about him and they've moved on.
Trump was Trump. It was obvious to me that Fox was trying to sink him, except they let him off the hook on religion. I was certain they were going to ask him something about his faith toward the end but it never happened. Bold prediction, if Trump needs a boost at some point, he'll have a "saved" experience and suddenly start talking like Frothy.
Dr Carson was hilarious. The moderators basically said, "you don't know anything, right?" Then proceeded to ignore him for 45 minutes. When he did get to talk again, apparently his big ideas are shifting the tax burden to the poor and reinstating torture. Go with what works, I guess.
John Ellis Bush Bush was weak. The "I earned the name JEB" made no sense at all. So called Establishment Republicans have got to be worried at this point.
Scott Walker was asked if he'd let a woman die rather than have an abortion. He responded with his talking points, so essentially, yes he would. He also looked silly on the rare occasions that Carson was speaking, watching him smiling and nodding like a preschooler watching a puppet show.
Marco Rubio let us know that the most qualified candidate running is Hillary Clinton. Ok then. Sounded like he needed a sip of water all night too.
Mike Huckabee was even more ridiculous than I had expected. TLDR: tax whores, increase military so they can kill more people and break more stuff.
I can't tell if Ted Cruz is an idiot or if he thinks Republican primary voters are idiots. Either way he was his usual semi-creepy self and didn't win over anyone.
John Kasich has some reasonable stances on a few issues, which means he'll be Huntsman'd within a couple weeks.
Fenderputty
Banned
I'm curious what he thinks though. For someone with such anger he's directing it somewhere. If it's Clinton i'm wondering why he's ignoring reports that came from the GOP themselves.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/23/w...nquiry-largely-backs-administration.html?_r=0
We have come to the point where a businessman who admitted on stage that his success was due to bribery and cheating the system, and a surgeon who never held an office, are as qualified to run for POTUS as former US Senator, former Secretary of State, and not to mention her works as FLOTUS.
Did anyone ever say to you "Hey, put yourself in someone else's shoes."?
If you are a Latino and a potential president categorizes your kind as rapists and murderers, do you think it would be easy to just go "Well I'm not one so no harm done! LOL!"
No, fuck that. Don't be this stupid. Join the human race.
bodyofanamerican
Member
The shamelessness with which Christie invokes 9/11 is mind blowing to me. Rand mopped the fucking floor with him in that exchange, IMO.
Like, wow.
Like, wow.
Ehh... The framing of the article isn't quite right. He directly invoked terrorism and how warrants could be a bane to prevent them. He also correctly pointed out Rands publicity stunts. Everyone lost in that exchange.
PeskyToaster
Member
I felt the same way. That pandering was way worse than anything Paul has done on the Senate floor. The only thing different about what Paul did was appeal directly to the people for money instead a golf outing with some business owner friends.
bodyofanamerican
Member
I'd respectfully disagree re: Rand. Certainly I take your point that you could see Rand's speeches as grandstanding, but I think putting Senate speeches online and hoping people donate to you based on the issues you're talking about is better than groveling to people like Trump and Shelly Adelson for money.
His response on race and closing comments were perfect for the base and the last two things he said.
Great for those with short term memory
I'm actually more on Rand's side, but I don't really think he did. Rand bringing up hugging Obama was fucking dumb, and Christie bringing up 9/11 wasn't really out of the question considering what they were actually talking about at that point. Christie's pivot off the stupid Obama hug was actually pretty decent.
"Hey look, we're not racist. We like this guy! He's one of the good ones."
To me he came off as one of the dumbest people on the stage, and that's quite a feat.
First, it might sound nice that Trump is being honest but when you're saying what he's been saying, being honest and not backing down isn't something positive.
As for the bolded part, that's not how you deal with social marginalization and systematic racism. You don't just tell yourself "it doesn't matter that a cop is arresting me for no reason and that I might get killed over this even if I comply because deep in my heart I know I'm a good person". That's not how it works.
I guess I don't get the Carson hate. He's a smooth guy, he's humble, and he is very likeable. He got probably the most laughs from the audience and you can tell they were always on his side. Even Megyn Kelly was joking with him when it came up that he had only been asked one question in about a hour. He brought it up playfully and everyone was kind of in on the joke. Compared to Ted Cruz who brought it up and he looked bitter, neglected and starving for more screen time. And in the closing statements -- yeah it was a bunch of lame jokes-- but it was the sort of lame jokes you laugh at when your dad tells them.
He is the most likeable republican for sure.
Have you seen the rest of the group though? They are all pretty awful.
I should clarify that by saying he is very likeable -- I mean that I think people want to like him. He has a great story and is generally respected in his field.
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