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[Scopa]

Seriously. Seeing more and more of the games media crying salty tears over this is delicious.

The epic hypocrisy in how they unashamedly support an internet “hate mob” when it is aligns with their beliefs, but are claiming this to be such a Shakespearean tragedy.

Keep bringing it you imbeciles.

 

[Petrae]

The notion of a "private twitter" must be one of the biggest oxymoron out there.

ie: how to blame the gasoline for burning after you throw the match.

The fact of the matter is that you don’t post something on social media unless you want others to hear/read your words. There’s nothing “private” about the internet, and it’s been this way for years now. It’s not a new concept— but it’s one that people stubbornly refuse to acknowledge.

If you truly want something you say to be private, you’re almost certainly not posting it online and definitely not posting it on social media. Price and Fries are 100% wrong in their references to having “private” Twitter and are falling on their refusal to accept this reality as an excuse.

Of course, reality doesn’t matter to either of these two. Living in denial seems to suit their needs.

Seriously. Seeing more and more of the games media crying salty tears over this is delicious.

The epic hypocrisy in how they unashamedly support an internet “hate mob” when it is aligns with their beliefs, but are claiming this to be such a Shakespearean tragedy.

Keep bringing it you imbeciles.

Games press is 90% agenda-driven bullshit now, with maybe 10% industry-related substance. It’s been an embarrassing descent into bullshit, too, as neutral reporting has given way to opinion-as-fact pieces and a pretty obvious and aggressive progressive/liberal bias. Games press LOVES talking down to its readership, which is something that it’s excelled at doing for much of this decade.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Seriously. Seeing more and more of the games media crying salty tears over this is delicious.

The epic hypocrisy in how they unashamedly support an internet “hate mob” when it is aligns with their beliefs, but are claiming this to be such a Shakespearean tragedy.

Keep bringing it you imbeciles.

Should have went with this version to really ice the cake.

 

[5secondrulesucks]

im just hearing about all this now and read though a bunch of stuff. more than anything i just find it crazy how much fucking hypocritical people there are out there defending this chick and how many different articles and people are trying to turn this into her being the victim. it really fucking mind boggling and its so blatant. some people are so defined and dependent on this certain narrative they just refuse to look at any situation objectively.

ive said before that i dont like people getting fired from their jobs who are assholes outside of work or has nothing to do with their work but clearly the original situation is "work related". shes representing her work if shes answering questions about the game and then turns into a maniac. rightfully fired if you ask me

 

[Fuz]

Should have went with this version to really ice the cake.

ROTFL

Saving this.

 

[Cato]

Jesus Christ. As a true crazy SJW she doubles down.

 

[Kagey K]

.

 

[Lanrutcon]

It's kind of interesting watching someone destroy their career by making sure the world knows she's completely and utterly unemployable.

Twitter: where careers go to die and the points don't matter.

 

[Velius]

Those of you who know me, know that I am in no way a militant leftist. I'm a Sam Harris devout, through and through. I want to reiterate that right now, and I definitely want to phrase what I have to say very carefully.

I don't think they should have been fired.

I understand exactly why they were. Obviously Jessica was nasty, unprofessional and uppity from the outset. Going around bragging about yourself on social media (a forum erected for the express purpose of exchanging and analyzing ideas), then welling up and crying whenever someone makes the kindest, most well-intended suggestion is just pathetic. Same thing with Fries-- although he started out as just dismissive, making inapplicable statements without engaging the actual ideas being presented, he ended up putting on his white armor when he should have been looking for his fucking testicles. So I get it, I really do.

But why not just put a stop to it? Tell your employees "Look if you can't engage our customers in an effective, pleasant and mutually profitable manner, don't engage them." Like it or not when you bring your professional life into Twitter you have just appointed yourself a customer service representative. So if you can't do it properly, don't do it.

At my job, I sometimes have to tell people to essentially "shut the hell up and get back to work", because sometimes it needs to be said. But firing someone over this, while it certainly sends a message, and can be seen as a win for some proponents of both honest discourse and true consequence, does more than just proclaim a stance on whatever issue is at hand. The fact of the matter is that they were two developers for a game that many people love. There's no reason to think they weren't exceptionally talented, and this action will ultimately hurt the game. Fries was with the team for twelve years. That's a big deal. Employees like that become somewhat of a neural circuit for the game development process and ripping them out should be considered as a last option.

Now I don't know every single detail in this situation. It's entirely possible that this unpleasant, unprofessional behavior was a trend with these two. If that's the case then yeah, you gotta can them. But I find that correcting unwanted behavior is a lot more effective and a lot less expensive than just firing someone.

One last note- It is of the utmost importance to point out that she was fired not for her beliefs, but because of the way she treated others in light of her beliefs. I fear that will be lost on many. I do not think a person's beliefs, political, religious or otherwise, should ever intersect with their viability in their chosen career.

The biggest lesson to be learned here is for the two of them. And I'm not talking about careers. I'm talking about person to person interaction. What that guy said to her, I wouldn't even call it criticism and she went off the fucking handle. I mean it was absolutely nuts- she went from nothing to all out war in a second. I would never in my life want to spend any time with someone like that. I sifted through some of her other tweets and my nose started bleeding after about twenty seconds. She is so fucking self-absorbed, uppity and condescending, and yet so emotionally fragile and weak minded. A goddamn Joffrey Baratheon.

The tragedy in all this is that she won't learn a single thing. She will be convinced that she was fired because of the patriarchy, or because mansplaining, or fill in the fucking blank with whatever trendy words you want to mindlessly shove into the discussion. She'll find thousands, thousands of losers that will reaffirm her flimsy glass house. All just clutter, nonsense and noise to distract her from the stark, clear reality that people ridicule her not because she's a woman, but because she's pompous and weak. That's a very irritating combination.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Velius According to the CEO, she had a history of this behavior (internally and externally), and was basically already on 'thin ice'.

 

[Velius]

Velius According to the CEO, she had a history of this behavior (internally and externally), and was basically already on 'thin ice'.

 

[Ulysses 31]

Obviously the CEO is a misogynist and a closet GGer.

 

[Velius]

Obviously the CEO is a misogynist and a closet GGer.

Wait... you're joking, right?

 

[DeepEnigma]

Wait... you're joking, right?

Yes, lol.

 

[Windom Earle]

"Gatekeeping is bad unless I do it"

 

[Grinchy]

This situation reminds me of the Allison Rapp firing. She was a consumer-facing employee for a child and family friendly company (Nintendo) who was found to be doing escorting/prostitution on the side. So when Nintendo fired her, it was all gamergate's fault and Nintendo was being misogynistic, ect. Anyone pointing out the real reason(s) she was fired was labeled all the buzzwords of the time along with nice bans to go with them.

It's just this silly strong urge to "protect women" that seems to lead the overzealous internet warriors into some weird mental state where they just cannot admit that a specific woman in question has done something wrong and has faced proper consequences. It's sort of sexist in a way to even think like that. Women don't need your fake internet protection, and if you think they're so weak on their own and they do need it, aren't you the sexist?

 

[DeepEnigma]

This situation reminds me of the Allison Rapp firing. She was a consumer-facing employee for a child and family friendly company (Nintendo) who was found to be doing escorting/prostitution on the side. So when Nintendo fired her, it was all gamergate's fault and Nintendo was being misogynistic, ect. Anyone pointing out the real reason(s) she was fired was labeled all the buzzwords of the time along with nice bans to go with them.

It's just this silly strong urge to "protect women" that seems to lead the overzealous internet warriors into some weird mental state where they just cannot admit that a specific woman in question has done something wrong and has faced proper consequences. It's sort of sexist in a way to even think like that. Women don't need your fake internet protection, and if you think they're so weak on their own and they do need it, aren't you the sexist?

Bingo.

> "All men and women are equal in every manner!"

> "I must run to your delicate aide on the internets m'lady!"

Pick one.

All they do is project their internal soft '-isms' of every form.

 

[DeepEnigma]

"Gatekeeping is bad unless I do it"

To add to what you posted and paint a clearer picture about her, I saw this on Kiwi.

You may not be aware, but Price is a fucking degenerate maniac who basically is a major reason Paizo (the Pathfinder publisher) began suck so badly. She was in charge of project management, which is kind of impressive considering she's widely on-record as claiming she hates PNP RPGs and everything about them, and constantly shit-talks "gatekeeping" (read: people who take umbrage with unqualified fucks being given primacy over fans who know their shit).

When working for Paizo, she became infamous for doing exactly what she did with the fucking Guild Wars community: Constantly shoving Social Justice shit in with a crowbar, treating anyone who wouldn't kiss her ass with absolute giggling fucking contempt, and shrieking on panels at cons about how the biggest obstacle to the success of Pathfinder was its own customer base and white men needed to be driven away from the hobby, and, when criticized, blamed everything on gender issues. She was also one of the odious fucks who was behind the whole Drivethrurpg/RpgNow thing, where, as a representative of Paizo, she conducted open warfare on other companies products.

Suffice to say this proved remarkably unpopular and led to her being shit-canned, at which point she accused her employers of sexism. She's a shrieking histrionic nutbar that has brought economic ruin and drama to every company that has ever employed her, and yet somehow, like an Autistic tumor, she keeps finding work due to the usual ideological shenanigans.

The fact that ResetERA can't countenance this speaks volumes about that website.

https://kiwifarms.net/threads/neogaf-resetera.9636/page-376#post-3559349

 

[Velius]

To add to what you posted and paint a clearer picture about her, I saw this on Kiwi.



https://kiwifarms.net/threads/neogaf-resetera.9636/page-376#post-3559349

Sounds like there wasn't a whole lot of lost value after all.

 

[Scopa]

“She's a shrieking histrionic nutbar that has brought economic ruin and drama to every company that has ever employed her, and yet somehow, like an Autistic tumor, she keeps finding work due to the usual ideological shenanigans.”

Fucking LMAO!

 

[Windom Earle]

Seriously. Seeing more and more of the games media crying salty tears over this is delicious.

The epic hypocrisy in how they unashamedly support an internet “hate mob” when it is aligns with their beliefs, but are claiming this to be such a Shakespearean tragedy.

Keep bringing it you imbeciles.

It really shows how disconnected these people are from reality and from large parts of the gaming community. Jesus Christ, is it too much to ask to stay within reality instead of constructing ridiculous narratives to push an agenda?
Also this toxic behaviour only fuels "hate groups" instead of weakening them.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Sounds like there wasn't a whole lot of lost value after all.

Oh but she identifies as a woman though, therefore, we must all rally behind this strong, independent, self assertive [see: delicate, victim, insecure] woman, for she can do no wrong based solely on her gender.

#MenWereAMistake

Fuck accountability, right?

 

[Petrae]

Those of you who know me, know that I am in no way a militant leftist. I'm a Sam Harris devout, through and through. I want to reiterate that right now, and I definitely want to phrase what I have to say very carefully.

I don't think they should have been fired.

I understand exactly why they were. Obviously Jessica was nasty, unprofessional and uppity from the outset. Going around bragging about yourself on social media (a forum erected for the express purpose of exchanging and analyzing ideas), then welling up and crying whenever someone makes the kindest, most well-intended suggestion is just pathetic. Same thing with Fries-- although he started out as just dismissive, making inapplicable statements without engaging the actual ideas being presented, he ended up putting on his white armor when he should have been looking for his fucking testicles. So I get it, I really do.

But why not just put a stop to it? Tell your employees "Look if you can't engage our customers in an effective, pleasant and mutually profitable manner, don't engage them." Like it or not when you bring your professional life into Twitter you have just appointed yourself a customer service representative. So if you can't do it properly, don't do it.

At my job, I sometimes have to tell people to essentially "shut the hell up and get back to work", because sometimes it needs to be said. But firing someone over this, while it certainly sends a message, and can be seen as a win for some proponents of both honest discourse and true consequence, does more than just proclaim a stance on whatever issue is at hand. The fact of the matter is that they were two developers for a game that many people love. There's no reason to think they weren't exceptionally talented, and this action will ultimately hurt the game. Fries was with the team for twelve years. That's a big deal. Employees like that become somewhat of a neural circuit for the game development process and ripping them out should be considered as a last option.

Now I don't know every single detail in this situation. It's entirely possible that this unpleasant, unprofessional behavior was a trend with these two. If that's the case then yeah, you gotta can them. But I find that correcting unwanted behavior is a lot more effective and a lot less expensive than just firing someone.

One last note- It is of the utmost importance to point out that she was fired not for her beliefs, but because of the way she treated others in light of her beliefs. I fear that will be lost on many. I do not think a person's beliefs, political, religious or otherwise, should ever intersect with their viability in their chosen career.

The biggest lesson to be learned here is for the two of them. And I'm not talking about careers. I'm talking about person to person interaction. What that guy said to her, I wouldn't even call it criticism and she went off the fucking handle. I mean it was absolutely nuts- she went from nothing to all out war in a second. I would never in my life want to spend any time with someone like that. I sifted through some of her other tweets and my nose started bleeding after about twenty seconds. She is so fucking self-absorbed, uppity and condescending, and yet so emotionally fragile and weak minded. A goddamn Joffrey Baratheon.

The tragedy in all this is that she won't learn a single thing. She will be convinced that she was fired because of the patriarchy, or because mansplaining, or fill in the fucking blank with whatever trendy words you want to mindlessly shove into the discussion. She'll find thousands, thousands of losers that will reaffirm her flimsy glass house. All just clutter, nonsense and noise to distract her from the stark, clear reality that people ridicule her not because she's a woman, but because she's pompous and weak. That's a very irritating combination.

The problems with traditional discipline for Price are:

A) Her willful transgressions took place in a very public setting, with tons of people bearing witness, and

B) Price has a history of poor social media behavior, carried over from previous employment.

A is what I would focus on as an employer, because she caused damage to my business by running roughshod over a media partner and through her lack of acknowledgement of her overreaction and her inability to apologize for said incident. Instead, she continued to double down and make matters worse instead of taking steps like privatizating her social media accounts or apologizing to the partner she blitzed.

There’s no reason to believe that Price would change her behavior after disciplinary action. None. Zero. She feels that she can say what she wants, when she wants, without accountability. She’s a loose cannon— fine while she’s in control of herself, but a serious liability when she goes off.

Fries made a bad call by jumping to her (unnecessary) defense instead of staying out of it, throwing more gasoline onto a heated situation. He has also demonstrated a severe lack of understanding when it comes to the basics of social media. He was also a liability, though not as damaging as Price, and his termination was likely a judgment call.

Social media transgressions can’t really be handled in traditional disciplinary ways. The transgressions aren’t in-house problems that can be handled discretely. They’re public, they generate negative backlash, and the backlash is often too fierce (even if the duration is limited) for most employers to want to spend money dealing with. It’s easier to separate from the offending employee and move on.

And if the end result of this situation is that more businesses draft and adopt strict social media policies, so much the better. The blatant lack of personal responsibility on social media has gone unchecked for too long, and maybe the threat of discipline or job separation for behaving badly online might make people think twice before they post.

 

[Fuz]

"Gatekeeping is bad unless I do it"

Priceless.

 

[Velius]

The problems with traditional discipline for Price are:

A) Her willful transgressions took place in a very public setting, with tons of people bearing witness, and

B) Price has a history of poor social media behavior, carried over from previous employment.

A is what I would focus on as an employer, because she caused damage to my business by running roughshod over a media partner and through her lack of acknowledgement of her overreaction and her inability to apologize for said incident. Instead, she continued to double down and make matters worse instead of taking steps like privatizating her social media accounts or apologizing to the partner she blitzed.

There’s no reason to believe that Price would change her behavior after disciplinary action. None. Zero. She feels that she can say what she wants, when she wants, without accountability. She’s a loose cannon— fine while she’s in control of herself, but a serious liability when she goes off.

Fries made a bad call by jumping to her (unnecessary) defense instead of staying out of it, throwing more gasoline onto a heated situation. He has also demonstrated a severe lack of understanding when it comes to the basics of social media. He was also a liability, though not as damaging as Price, and his termination was likely a judgment call.

Social media transgressions can’t really be handled in traditional disciplinary ways. The transgressions aren’t in-house problems that can be handled discretely. They’re public, they generate negative backlash, and the backlash is often too fierce (even if the duration is limited) for most employers to want to spend money dealing with. It’s easier to separate from the offending employee and move on.

And if the end result of this situation is that more businesses draft and adopt strict social media policies, so much the better. The blatant lack of personal responsibility on social media has gone unchecked for too long, and maybe the threat of discipline or job separation for behaving badly online might make people think twice before they post.

Well put.

 

[Fnord]

I walk into a bar and sit down next to an off-duty employee, wearing his bar uniform. He strikes up a conversation. I, politely, make a comment on what he said. He responds by calling me a sexist asshole. If there's management nearby, he's getting fired. That's how I see this. Social media is so prolific now that it is seen as nearly the same as person-to-person contact. If you would get fired for doing or saying something in person, you should expect to get fired for doing/saying the same thing on social media. In ways, things are worse on social media, as it reaches a FAR wider audience and serves as the public face of your company.

 

[Petrae]

I walk into a bar and sit down next to an off-duty employee, wearing his bar uniform. He strikes up a conversation. I, politely, make a comment on what he said. He responds by calling me a sexist asshole. If there's management nearby, he's getting fired. That's how I see this. Social media is so prolific now that it is seen as nearly the same as person-to-person contact. If you would get fired for doing or saying something in person, you should expect to get fired for doing/saying the same thing on social media. In ways, things are worse on social media, as it reaches a FAR wider audience and serves as the public face of your company.

And this is why businesses absolutely need social media guidelines— for protection.

They can’t explicitly tell employees that they can’t have social media accounts, but they can make it very clear that participation on social media can have consequences, both personally and professionally. If the company gets targeted by people as a result of something an employee said, then the company shouldn’t be tasked with defending the employee.

Follow the guidelines, or you’re gone. It’s worked for other behaviors in the past, and will eventually work for social media once the guidelines are drafted and implemented and a few employees do something to get themselves fired.

 

[Dynasty8]

Edit: Deleted.

My personal opinion. She has no one to blame but herself. People have to start taking action for their themselves. Had this been a male employee and a female fan...well, let's just say Kotaku and all these other biased sites would be applauding ArenaNET.

 

[Redneckerz]

Some more crossposting:

Seems The Arenanet thread has stormed down a bit, but ofcourse, the Master Baiter has something still to say to this. She loves summaries as much as i do, so lets atleast give her that, right?

''Since this thread appears to have largely died down, I figured I would throw in my last two cents. This is easily the most contentious thread I've been involved with since joining ERA and it has taken quite a few twists and turns. I made a variety of very long posts because I had too much time on my hands and I wanted to link back to them to summarize my full argument, as well as for ease of convenience for the lowlives on at least four different websites who are currently trying to document this thread and my actions in it. In summary:''

• My explanation on why privileged people often react with extreme, disproportionate anger when they feel disrespected by a member of a marginalized group
• Contrary to how I've been characterized throughout the thread, I never agreed that Deroir "mansplained" Price. In this post, I explain my more nuanced view on why his behavior may have set her off and even defend him by saying he's not a "sexist manchild"
• Explanation of the Price-versus-Kamiya double standard
• The unique situation where game developers are expected to interact with customers on Twitter when people in other industries aren't
• How the situation should have gone down, in a country with stronger labor protections

Atleast she can't claim that i won't provide the bigger picture for her here. But my onus is with her ''argument'':

I feel this basically sums up my argument: women are constantly condescended to, talked down to, and made to feel as though they don't know what they're talking about. Price reacted angrily and insultingly but in a manner that has more contextual nuance than most people are willing to acknowledge. Additionally, social media policies need to be more specific and describe the expectation for the individual's social media presence; people in the entertainment industry have a different relationship to fans and social media than other customer support personnel, and this should be taken into account when drafting and enforcing a policy. Finally, regardless of whether you believe she deserved to be punished or to what extent, the fact that the company immediately terminated her and her coworker who clearly did nothing wrong, without any disciplinary process, exposes both that companies are willing to bend to online hate mobs as long as they're paying customers and that US labor laws are a travesty that offers workers no protections whatsoever.

Alright boo, lets address your argument. And lets just keep ourselves to the things that are bolded, shall we?

• ''Women are constantly condescended to'': This has exactly nothing to do with Price being fired. Price provided a (reasonable) rant, and got (reasonable) feedback back, only for her to react (not reasonable) to Deroir. That's it. That others are bringing in secondary issues, like her history regarding this, for me, thats irrelevant. I judge her upon her original story, the feedback by Deroir, and her reaction afterwards to Deroir. You can bring in as much secondary commentary about it all you want, the simple fact of this encapsulated bit is that she reacted completely inappropiate and through her original story, she did so as a developer, not as a consumer. The whole ''women are constantly condescended to'' is in this case just shifting the core discussion away to include gender issues. This is textbook bad faith posting 101.
• ''Price reacted angrily'': Atleast you agree that she reacted insultingly, but more over, she reacted in an overreacted manner. There is absolutely zero reason to flip out at the kind of feedback Deroir gave to Price. Absolutely zero. If that kind of feedback is already problematic, than people might as well stop providing it. Lets also stop survey's in general because clearly giving this kind of feedback publically is completely out of line.. smh.
• ''But in a manner that has more contextual nuance'': Gurl what nuance? Like i said i only look at the conversation itself and i refrain from adding in history/prior altercations since that only clouds judgements. What i see is a nice rant, nice feedback, and a completely inappropiate backlash by Price. You tell me where i should find nuance for her backlash. Hint: You won't find any. That argument is just a BS excuse to justify the kind of trash talk Price was doing.
• ''Social media policies need to be more specific'': Why should they? Do you really want famous people/industry people be presented with a different rulebook and expection set than everyone else? Because that sounds awfully like The Names's policy on ERA, really. The fact Price used her Twitter like a private outlet is where it goes wrong: Twitter has always been a public conversation space, so, we need to tell people this in a policy now when its common sense? Well, clearly not for Price, since she reacted so inappropiately. But who'se problem is that, really? Twitter's, when they are a public space from day 1? Or... maybe its on Price, for using a public space as a private outlet and completely overreacting to completely harmless feedback? Hmmm... nah, we have to go deeper,, there is more contextual nuance, right? I am all for nuance, but the conversation (Not her history, not all the other details that are thrown in and which i condemn) is a clear cut case: Price reacted wildly inappropiate, talked as a developer of Arenanet when doing her (nice) rant, and as a result of her inappropiate behavior, she (rightfully) gets axed. Because she was clearly speaking as a developer/employee of Arenanet. This isn't next level rocket science, but as clear as a fact as it i can be.
• ''People in the entertainment industry have a different relationship to fans and social media'': Oh, i am aware. They think that Twitter is a private safe space where you can just say whatever. sigh. Now, Twitter does suffer from incredibly damning and disgusting commentary that most of its users get away with and i feel this is where Twitter should take action. But this isn't nothing new. This is a thing on Twitter for years. But instead of working actively with Twitter (Both this user and Price) to get these kinds of hate commentary get filtered out, both do nothing but complain: The aforementioned ''Bark Bark Bark''. This user literally became what she mockingly was posting in bad faith prior.
• ''The fact that the company immediately terminated her and her coworker who clearly did nothing wrong,'': Her co-worker Fries considered Twitter to be private aswell and stuck up for her. Granted, i agree that Fries should not have been fired for having a naive opinion or stucking up for her. He is, what people like to say, ''collateral damage''. But, again, most of the topic is not focused on him, when (arguably) he is the bigger wrong that has to be righted. But why isn't that happening on ERA? Why aren't they writing letters of support to Fries or Arenanet to hire him back? I mean, ERA users clearly had no issue getting a Subnautica dev fired, so its not like they are inexprienced in this matter, right? Or maybe....... its because he is a man? <- You see what this searching and reaching for alternative straws' narrative causes? Because aruging this is as equally moronic as claiming that Price was fired because of her gender. Hence why any reasonable person does not do this.
• ''Exposes both that companies are willing to bend to online hate mobs'': Well, you might have a point here considering people will inevitably bring additional dirt in that escalates the situation (or the sources damn themselves further) but lets not forget that this same ERA was quick to point to ''online hate mobs'' as the cause and reason a transgender game developer self immolated, despite having context in the OP and despite the developer wanting the discussion to be about the lack of proper mental health facilities in the US. Where were you, Master Baiter? Oh that's right, you didn't participate in that thread.
• '' And that US labor laws are a travesty'': Again like the first point, what has that to do with this? Oh, i see what you try to mean here - You mean the pressures of gaming development in general. Well, as much as it has something to do with Price's conversation (Hint: Exactly none) there is a case to argue on a more broader scale when it comes to game development. It is hell, for many people. I am always reminded by the story behind the game Brigador, a indie game with destruction. Well worth a read, if you ask me.

Ofcourse, a Master Baiter wouldn't be called a master of her craft if it didn't had an appropiate baiting/trolling ending. so ''Thank you for your time and have a barkin' evening, everyone.''

 

[Michele]

I thought this issue was already solved by now but it looks like there's gonna be a major debate/discussion.

Just hope that it doesn't escalate into an agruement
In my opinion, it was an shocking situation. Seeing the female fired is no surprised but I was shocked when a male developer got fired because he defended her. She was rude, and there was this behavior history, so she got it, but I'm surprised someone actually defended her.

Because when he defended her, he knew that it would mean making the Guildwar 2 playerbase your enemy.

 

[KevinKeene]

Edit: Deleted.

My personal opinion. She has no one to blame but herself. People have to start taking action for their themselves. Had this been a male employee and a female fan...well, let's just say Kotaku and all these other biased sites would be applauding ArenaNET.

This is what irritates me. Do all these people defending her not realize that they're only defending her because of their own sexism?

Imagine a male ArenaNet employee telling a female fan 'i don't need advice from a random bitch', would ANY of these people defend the guy?

Of course no. They'd PUSH for his firing.


If anyone wants to discuss the wider problems of girls in the industry, do it. But not in the context of Arenanet firing Price. She's a toxic, nasty person and deserved bring fired as much as the hundreds of people that got fired before her. Discussing women's issues with *her* at the front only ridicules and marginalizes the cause. She's not a victim.

 

[Ogbert]

I’ve got to be honest; I no longer have the strength to read some of the hot takes in the gaming press.

Kotaku, Polygon et al, have officially exited the solar system.

It’s as if the entire video game press is run by first year Sociology students.

 

[Windom Earle]

I’ve got to be honest; I no longer have the strength to read some of the hot takes in the gaming press.

Kotaku, Polygon et al, have officially exited the solar system.

It’s as if the entire video game press is run by first year Sociology students.

It's funny to me how these people now manage to legitimize their very own enemy Gamergate. Wasn't one of GG's core messages that the gaming media is corrupt and biased? Well, that seems to be very much the case.

 

[Lupingosei]

If anyone wants to discuss the wider problems of girls in the industry, do it. But not in the context of Arenanet firing Price. She's a toxic, nasty person and deserved bring fired as much as the hundreds of people that got fired before her. Discussing women's issues with *her* at the front only ridicules and marginalizes the cause. She's not a victim.

But she is the right kind of toxic and nasty person and that is the point.
She was punching up, when she insulted Deroir. If a male developer does the same thing towards a female fan he is punching down. This is all part of the critical theory, which is pretty much unopposed with many colleges. This not in any way surprising. For the US games media and a lot of people at ResetEra she is the victim, so it is not her fault. Also because Gamergate could see this as a signal, they can not fire her.

That is why it is also ok to send death threats to a fan artist, attack a professor or pushing somebody into suicide. Because they are all punching up and educate the people with privilege about their mistakes. This is also why this backlash against fandom is so celebrated in US entertainment media.

 

[DeepEnigma]

It's funny to me how these people now manage to legitimize their very own enemy Gamergate. Wasn't one of GG's core messages that the gaming media is corrupt and biased? Well, that seems to be very much the case.

Well, of course you will hate a group that seemingly exposes you, as you expose yourself in the process of trying to keep GG relevant. Every "hero" needs a "villian". It puts food on their tables to keep them relevant.

Recent example, look how fast the media turned on Elon Musk when he wants them to have accountability.

 

[Petrae]

I’ve got to be honest; I no longer have the strength to read some of the hot takes in the gaming press.

Kotaku, Polygon et al, have officially exited the solar system.

It’s as if the entire video game press is run by first year Sociology students.

The gaming press chose a side years ago and remains loyal to that side today. It chose to defend the industry that it reports on, rather than choosing to remain neutral and simply report the facts. It revels in the opportunity to talk down to and shame the peons who play video games. It constantly feels the need to remind everyone how much sacrifice and struggle goes into making video games, and how the plebs should shut up & be happy with what they get.

This case hits all the hot-button topics that progressive gaming press people love to attack.

— There’s a woman at the center of this controversy
— Evil business versus the little people
— Not bring able to say what you want on social media is scary and wrong

This was a perfect opportunity for the gaming press to climb atop its high horse and tell us all once again how wrong everything is... and the press most certainly took it.

 

[Pot Meet Kettle]

Before Price was in her current position, there were tweets by her in 2012 that being a writer isn't anything special, anyone can do it, and anyone can be criticized and torn a new asshole over their work not being up to her standards (obviously in the context of an "everything is political" worldview). Now the shoe is on the other foot and Price is now a writer, she now goes "don't tell me how to do my job" ... over very mild comments by a fanboy of hers, who even backed off but it did not help him.

Price, and later her own crowd, went after Deroir and then ArenaNet using buzzwords like brazen accusations of sexism and mansplaining that are ALWAYS used to try and end someone's carreer. When it was her own carreer which was ended instead (not the first time either she was fired, and not her first strike at ArenaNET specifically, and over an even more concrete and obvious transgression than sexism, that is attacking business partners and consumers with abusive language and not even being apologetic over it) now firing people over social media is wrong, or the way their more honest people put it out, is correct but when the asshole employee has a specific sexual organ and we feel it's not a win for "progressives" then it's wrong and rules should not be respected.

Now even Deroir, the victim of Price's abusive tweets and attempts at character assassination, has Price sympathisants trying to claim he's the wrong gender to discuss with her (all his bootlicking and niceness and rolling over when accused didn't prevent a mansplaining accusation), or insuniate he's the mastermind behind a hate mob, or has an "unsavory" past (which doesn't exist). Which is supposedly victim blaming but kosher here.

---

This whole thing is all about hypocritical double standards. That "crazy neogaf 2.0" or "poly-taku" is choosing "this hill to die on" only harms what little shreds of credibility and intellectual integrity they still had. Companies can't afford to follow their sexist double standards because the legal implications are very real as Google learned the hard way.
Media trying to characterize Deroir's tweets as mansplaining only works to reinforce a definition of the term that encourages Pence-like policies when engaging with creatives from specific backgrounds that are not as drama hungry as Price was.

 

[Grinchy]

I’ve got to be honest; I no longer have the strength to read some of the hot takes in the gaming press.

Kotaku, Polygon et al, have officially exited the solar system.

It’s as if the entire video game press is run by first year Sociology students.

It basically is, but I'm sure many of them went with journalism or communications.

It's very strange to me that we count on the opinions of random writers who often suck at videogames. It would be like a writer creating a website that reviewed golf equipment but he can barely even make contact with the ball and people buy equipment based on the scores he puts out.

 

[Helios]

It's very strange to me that we count on the opinions of random writers who often suck at videogames.

Exhibit B . Special mention goes to this guy who goes on a rant about how traumatized he is by shooting virtual guns.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Exhibit B . Special mention goes to this guy who goes on a rant about how traumatized he is by shooting virtual guns.

- Sheltered lives?

- Virtue signaling false altruism?

- Both?

Watch as we delve inside the minds of madness.

 

[bilderberg]

If I was the guy I'd be pretty pissed that seemingly no one seems to give a shit about my firing.

 

[DeepEnigma]

If I was the guy I'd be pretty pissed that seemingly no one seems to give a shit about my firing.

He got the worst of it being collateral damage to be honest.

And the so called "progressives" are showing their true sexist colors projecting their soft isms.

 

[Xaero Gravity]

If I was the guy I'd be pretty pissed that seemingly no one seems to give a shit about my firing.

Blame Jessica Price for that. She's successfully made herself the victim and center of attention like the narcissist she is.

 

[Windom Earle]

Blame Jessica Price for that. She's successfully made herself the victim and center of attention like the narcissist she is.

Stop badmouthing industry veterans please.

 

[Mochilador]

Velius According to the CEO, she had a history of this behavior (internally and externally), and was basically already on 'thin ice'.

Now everything makes sense. They did the right thing if she had a history of bad behavior.

 

[ipukespiders]

This situation reminds me of the Allison Rapp firing.

Oh man, I remember that thread:

Do not under any circumstances get into detective shit.

If it isn't already cited from Alison directly or from a reputable media site, if you have to dig around to find it, do not post.

That was some straight up bullshit. Thankfully the mod that added that disclaimer is no longer here.

 

[Velius]

Some more crossposting:

Seems The Arenanet thread has stormed down a bit, but ofcourse, the Master Baiter has something still to say to this. She loves summaries as much as i do, so lets atleast give her that, right?

Atleast she can't claim that i won't provide the bigger picture for her here. But my onus is with her ''argument'':

Alright boo, lets address your argument. And lets just keep ourselves to the things that are bolded, shall we?

• ''Women are constantly condescended to'': This has exactly nothing to do with Price being fired. Price provided a (reasonable) rant, and got (reasonable) feedback back, only for her to react (not reasonable) to Deroir. That's it. That others are bringing in secondary issues, like her history regarding this, for me, thats irrelevant. I judge her upon her original story, the feedback by Deroir, and her reaction afterwards to Deroir. You can bring in as much secondary commentary about it all you want, the simple fact of this encapsulated bit is that she reacted completely inappropiate and through her original story, she did so as a developer, not as a consumer. The whole ''women are constantly condescended to'' is in this case just shifting the core discussion away to include gender issues. This is textbook bad faith posting 101.
• ''Price reacted angrily'': Atleast you agree that she reacted insultingly, but more over, she reacted in an overreacted manner. There is absolutely zero reason to flip out at the kind of feedback Deroir gave to Price. Absolutely zero. If that kind of feedback is already problematic, than people might as well stop providing it. Lets also stop survey's in general because clearly giving this kind of feedback publically is completely out of line.. smh.
• ''But in a manner that has more contextual nuance'': Gurl what nuance? Like i said i only look at the conversation itself and i refrain from adding in history/prior altercations since that only clouds judgements. What i see is a nice rant, nice feedback, and a completely inappropiate backlash by Price. You tell me where i should find nuance for her backlash. Hint: You won't find any. That argument is just a BS excuse to justify the kind of trash talk Price was doing.
• ''Social media policies need to be more specific'': Why should they? Do you really want famous people/industry people be presented with a different rulebook and expection set than everyone else? Because that sounds awfully like The Names's policy on ERA, really. The fact Price used her Twitter like a private outlet is where it goes wrong: Twitter has always been a public conversation space, so, we need to tell people this in a policy now when its common sense? Well, clearly not for Price, since she reacted so inappropiately. But who'se problem is that, really? Twitter's, when they are a public space from day 1? Or... maybe its on Price, for using a public space as a private outlet and completely overreacting to completely harmless feedback? Hmmm... nah, we have to go deeper,, there is more contextual nuance, right? I am all for nuance, but the conversation (Not her history, not all the other details that are thrown in and which i condemn) is a clear cut case: Price reacted wildly inappropiate, talked as a developer of Arenanet when doing her (nice) rant, and as a result of her inappropiate behavior, she (rightfully) gets axed. Because she was clearly speaking as a developer/employee of Arenanet. This isn't next level rocket science, but as clear as a fact as it i can be.
• ''People in the entertainment industry have a different relationship to fans and social media'': Oh, i am aware. They think that Twitter is a private safe space where you can just say whatever. sigh. Now, Twitter does suffer from incredibly damning and disgusting commentary that most of its users get away with and i feel this is where Twitter should take action. But this isn't nothing new. This is a thing on Twitter for years. But instead of working actively with Twitter (Both this user and Price) to get these kinds of hate commentary get filtered out, both do nothing but complain: The aforementioned ''Bark Bark Bark''. This user literally became what she mockingly was posting in bad faith prior.
• ''The fact that the company immediately terminated her and her coworker who clearly did nothing wrong,'': Her co-worker Fries considered Twitter to be private aswell and stuck up for her. Granted, i agree that Fries should not have been fired for having a naive opinion or stucking up for her. He is, what people like to say, ''collateral damage''. But, again, most of the topic is not focused on him, when (arguably) he is the bigger wrong that has to be righted. But why isn't that happening on ERA? Why aren't they writing letters of support to Fries or Arenanet to hire him back? I mean, ERA users clearly had no issue getting a Subnautica dev fired, so its not like they are inexprienced in this matter, right? Or maybe....... its because he is a man? <- You see what this searching and reaching for alternative straws' narrative causes? Because aruging this is as equally moronic as claiming that Price was fired because of her gender. Hence why any reasonable person does not do this.
• ''Exposes both that companies are willing to bend to online hate mobs'': Well, you might have a point here considering people will inevitably bring additional dirt in that escalates the situation (or the sources damn themselves further) but lets not forget that this same ERA was quick to point to ''online hate mobs'' as the cause and reason a transgender game developer self immolated, despite having context in the OP and despite the developer wanting the discussion to be about the lack of proper mental health facilities in the US. Where were you, Master Baiter? Oh that's right, you didn't participate in that thread.
• '' And that US labor laws are a travesty'': Again like the first point, what has that to do with this? Oh, i see what you try to mean here - You mean the pressures of gaming development in general. Well, as much as it has something to do with Price's conversation (Hint: Exactly none) there is a case to argue on a more broader scale when it comes to game development. It is hell, for many people. I am always reminded by the story behind the game Brigador, a indie game with destruction. Well worth a read, if you ask me.

Ofcourse, a Master Baiter wouldn't be called a master of her craft if it didn't had an appropiate baiting/trolling ending. so ''Thank you for your time and have a barkin' evening, everyone.''

I bet she's great at parties.

 

[Velius]

I’ve got to be honest; I no longer have the strength to read some of the hot takes in the gaming press.

Kotaku, Polygon et al, have officially exited the solar system.

It’s as if the entire video game press is run by first year Sociology students.

Honestly what makes you think it isn't? Anyone who's 25+ was born in 1993+. By the time they were in gradeschool the internet was in full swing.

I've noticed that younger people have this very elusive way of arguing. There's a youtuber by the name of Mauler who dissects a video called "In Defense of Dark Souls II." And when I say "dissect," I mean "splits the very atoms."



Mauler himself has near impeccable logic and analysis. But the gentleman whose work he critiques, hbomberguy, argues exactly like my goddamn ex. Constant logical rabbit holes, plugging surge protectors into themselves and loud shrieks whenever someone pins them down with an irrefutable cornerstone. Verbose but imprecise, capriciously selecting any point on a sliding scale of splitting hairs or broad sweeping statements. Their foundation is obfuscating facts.

 

[Alec]

I would like for someone to tell me whether or not I'm being reasonable.

No one should have been fired over this. Write-ups...sure, whatever. But this is just another case of Twitter being awful for people in general. This didn't need to get so heated.

 

[Redshirt]

I would like for someone to tell me whether or not I'm being reasonable.

No one should have been fired over this. Write-ups...sure, whatever. But this is just another case of Twitter being awful for people in general. This didn't need to get so heated.

I don't think you're being unreasonable. In a totally sane world, I agree. But this is the Twitter-verse, and she was a jackass. If I did what she did at my current job, I'd be fired too.

Side note: props to Tyler and the current mod staff for letting a thread like this be. But maybe we could stop with the call outs to you know where.

Seriously. f that place. Just my $.02.