Scopa
The Tribe Has Spoken
Do you not believe that people should be responsible for their own actions?
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Guild Wars 2 writers fired following heated Twitter exchange with streamer
- Thread starter Adry9
- Start date
Alec
Member
I said I was fine with write-ups, though. Is that not enough?
Multiple offenses, yeah, fire her.
Grinchy
Banned
She also used the same Twitter account to publicly cheer for TotalBiscuit's death.
Scopa
The Tribe Has Spoken
It was multiple offences, according to the ArenaNET CEO apparently.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
She probably doesn't go to them due to not knowing how to engage in proper discourse. The internet is her party, but least we forget, a private one depending on which mood they are in.
ipukespiders
Member
It wasn't her first day on twitter. Even if you don't fire her for her behavior (you should), at least fire her for being dumb.
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Alec
Member
Yikes.
I also mean "multiple offenses" as in "she has been talked to by her management about this before". Like, H.R. has a documented history of misbehavior. In general, I am rarely in favor of immediate termination for things (aside from the obvious -- racism, bigotry, etc).
If this was not the first time she was talked to by her management, then I'm on board.
Thanks for the responses guys.
Velius
Banned
Okay now I want to go to a party with you. Because I think you truly would be fun.
Chiggs
Member
I made the mistake of looking at Price’s Twitter feed, and have to wonder why any game developer would EVER want to bring her onboard. It’d be like some credible some news outlet having a serious debate about bringing Alex Jones in as a contributor. If you let the fox in the henhouse, damage will be done.
Dacon
Banned
You should get a load of a lot of Marvel Comics' employee's twitter feeds.
Fox Mulder
Member
They'll score points with a certain crowd.
I don't really give a shit about any of this, but just think it's hilarious after how the left was all for holding people accountable for their twitter or online presence until now.
autoduelist
Member
Regardless of whether you're punching up or punching down, a cardinal rule of life is that if you choose to throw a punch you very well might get your teeth caved in.
An employer shouldnt have to publicize their entire list of grievances with someone if they fire them. Whether it's the 1st or 10th incident is none of our business, and it would be worse if a company did list all the issues.
Also, if you were paying someone tens of thousands of dollars a year to do work for you, would you want to have to pass some sort of test to be able to fire them , or be able to just let them go if they did something you didn't like. Making it hard to fire people might sound good on paper, but it's not without its flaws.
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KevinKeene
Banned
Can we btw note for a moment that 'punching down' and 'punching up' is terminology used for JOKES/comedy?
People need to stop abusing the term to marginalize serious arguments. It was never meant to be a phrase that excuses unfactual statements.
"Yes, she's been an offensive bitch, BUT she's the real victim, (aka was punching down), so it's okay".
No! That's not how you 'punch down'. You're punching down when you tell an offensive joke about jews, homosexuals or handicapped people. You're punching up when you're joking about rich white people. That's 'punching up/down'.
Bending facts and excusing bs was never and kind of punching. It was, is and will always be just that: bullshit.
People need to stop abusing the term to marginalize serious arguments. It was never meant to be a phrase that excuses unfactual statements.
"Yes, she's been an offensive bitch, BUT she's the real victim, (aka was punching down), so it's okay".
No! That's not how you 'punch down'. You're punching down when you tell an offensive joke about jews, homosexuals or handicapped people. You're punching up when you're joking about rich white people. That's 'punching up/down'.
Bending facts and excusing bs was never and kind of punching. It was, is and will always be just that: bullshit.
Lupingosei
Banned
As a lot of things, it was getting adapted and is now often used in the context of critical theory. Somebody who is working as a comic artist herself even used this as a justification why she could send death threads to that Steven Universe fan, who drew Rose Quartz too thin. She as an asian woman was punching upwards, the same reason was the rationalization after the suicide of August Ames.
They do not feel empathy for the ones who are getting bullied, because they deserve it. That is why so many people on ResetEra called Deroir an offender and that is why they can shit on Total Biscuit now.
Bryank75
Banned
Been watching this, great commentary from Skill up, Yong Yea, the quartering and others have covered it really well and contrast starkly with the mainstream gaming media, who have gone out of their way to cover for this absolutely toxic, nasty and egotistical woman.
On the most basic level, I don’t understand why people would stand up for her? Is that what you want to be associated with? Is this the behavior that defines feminism, pc culture and has mainstream media’s blessing?
It’s hard to find people with less class than these people.
On the most basic level, I don’t understand why people would stand up for her? Is that what you want to be associated with? Is this the behavior that defines feminism, pc culture and has mainstream media’s blessing?
It’s hard to find people with less class than these people.
Redneckerz
Those long posts don't cover that red neck boy
I heard Jessica Price was hosting a pity party with these people. (This is a joke obviously.)
Actually.. i do think Price should be fired over this, not accounting her past history with this thing. What she did was posting a (nice) rant as a developer not a consumer. Thus, her reaction to a completely reasonable critique is thus unjust. Let alone using Twitter as some kind of private outlet when its not.
I agree, things really didn't had to be so heated. But the onus for the decision to react so negatively has been on Price and Price alone. That third parties get in with more dirt is sadly also the price for a public place like Twitter: Anyone will react.
At best, she should have remedied (read: replied reasonably) in a DM. That is what you would have done and it wouldn't have costed your job. But what these kinds of people do, as admitting their shameful acts is somehow worse in their minds to do for their carreer is to double down on it. As if it that is a better option than just admitting that you reacted inappropiately and completely overreacted on absolutely harmless critique.
But its about gender, ofcourse.. Sigh. :/
Air Zombie Meat
Member
She was a writer which lets be honest is easily replaceable. If she really was already on thin ice then it's not surprising she got fired.
MayauMiao
Member
She tweet awful stuff while having ArenaNet on her Twitter profile. ArenaNet knows the backlash from fans won't end well for the company so the best option was to let go a troubled employee.
Price is expendable, the fans are not.
Scopa
The Tribe Has Spoken
So, just so I’m up to date:
- If you moonlight as a prostitute and keep it secret from your employer (who matter of factly happens to be renowned for a family image), you have done nothing wrong and get a pass?
and
- If you hurl abuse at a customer of your company’s product for simply making a polite suggestion, you have done nothing wrong and get a pass?
I just wanna make sure I don’t succumb to “wrongthink”.
- If you moonlight as a prostitute and keep it secret from your employer (who matter of factly happens to be renowned for a family image), you have done nothing wrong and get a pass?
and
- If you hurl abuse at a customer of your company’s product for simply making a polite suggestion, you have done nothing wrong and get a pass?
I just wanna make sure I don’t succumb to “wrongthink”.
Grinchy
Banned
It depends. Which restroom does the person use?
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KevinKeene
Banned
Scopa
The Tribe Has Spoken
Windom Earle
Member
Digging through old tweets is basically stalking and creepy dude. Unless we're witch hunting Tim Soret and Daniel Vavra.
DeliciousDoc
Member
Peope are arguing that Price being a victim is a result of new University policies but she is in her 30s at least if she claims 10 years of experience writing. Most of the "journalists" supporting her are in their 30s. I am also in my 30s but think completely differently. Maybe its more an issue of people in their 30s doing a job for people in their 20s and struggling to make themselves look more mature.
The "young media" (youtubers) are not on their side. This gives me hope for the future. The new generation isn't trash. My generation, the one between successful adults (boomers) and internet kids is trash.
I hope that university and school policies (like expelling a male elementary school student for daring to show interest in a girl) enforced by my generation don't mess up kids.
The "young media" (youtubers) are not on their side. This gives me hope for the future. The new generation isn't trash. My generation, the one between successful adults (boomers) and internet kids is trash.
I hope that university and school policies (like expelling a male elementary school student for daring to show interest in a girl) enforced by my generation don't mess up kids.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
"It's only creepy when they do it, not when we do it."
Such holier than thou egotistical bullshit. Elitist privileged mindset through and through.
Do Make Say Think
Banned
Agreed.
However I think the employer needs to consider the future in such scenarios. If they let this slide then it makes crackingdown harder in the future. With how things have been going in respect to social media culture, I can understand why they went hardline here.
The employer lost two employees, and two people lost their jobs. Everybody lost.
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Dr. Claus
Vincit qui se vincit
Everybody lost? How so? Guild Wars 2 got a notable boost in revenue (assuming reddit and the forums is to believed), multiple people returned to the game, and the company got rid of a cancerous cretin (as well as Fries, which may/may not be a good thing - I don't know the full story behind why he was fired).
The only people who "lost" was Fries and Price as well as the sad misguided folk who defend her.
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Why?
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Without knowing in full detail how the whole thing went down, it's hard to tell. Evidently, she should have had the chance to explain and defend herself. No question about it. But I only have her word on the matter and I would need to hear the other side before determining what really happened.
Not commenting on the legality of it, which I'm not in a position to evaluate, I would say there are certainly ethical grounds for firing her. But I would have said the same and more vehemently when she decided to celebrate Total Biscuit's death. The fact the management doesn't seem to share my opinion is one of the more puzzling inconsistencies in this whole affair.
Do Make Say Think
Banned
I will choose to remain skeptical about reddit and other such places celebrating the downfall of Price and claiming that her demise has generated extra revenue.
Price was dumb. But so are a ton of people who are happy she got fired.
Dr. Claus
Vincit qui se vincit
Why are the people who are happy she was fired "dumb"? She openly acted hostile to known community members, making constant baseless accusations of sexism/misogyny, as well as celebrated the death of known a well-known PC gamer. I would celebrate the removal of a tumor as well.
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Do Make Say Think
Banned
Exactly that. Comparing a person to a tumour is ridiculous.
prag16
Banned
She has a toxic social media presence, and has responded to this whole debacle by doubling and tripling down. Tumor is a little stronger than I'd use, but she is NOT a victim in this. Fries you can make a better case.
Hendrick's
If only my penis was as big as my GamerScore!
Do those still exist?
Petrae
Member
I mentioned this earlier in the thread, but there are reasons why social media offenses can’t be handled with traditional employee discipline.
The main reason is that the offense took place in a very public way. It’s not something private like being late for work a few times, or calling out too many times, or having shoddy work output that needs addressing. Jumping on social media and going viral leaves the business having to spend money and time to repair image damage. Apologies from the offending employees aren’t going to be much good here.
In Price’s case, she also has a documented history of questionable-to-poor social media behavior. She trashed her previous employer publicly. She genuinely believes that she has the right to speech without personal consequences— while collateral image damage isn’t her concern.
I referred to her as a “loose cannon” earlier in the thread, and I stand by this. When she’s got herself under control, she’s manageable and might even be a decent employee. Once the safety is off and she starts dropping social media pipebombs, though, she becomes an instant liability.
Moreover, she chose a fairly important somebody in the community for the business she works for to blast. That’s a serious offense, full stop. Apologies and excuses don’t fix that damage. A pledge from her to cease using social media is the only way, and ANet can’t do that.
Termination is a reasonable outcome in this case. Of course Price doesn’t like it, and she can feel as blindsided as she wants. It doesn’t take multiple offenses when it comes to social media controversy to get fired. It’s a common occurrence. She chose to use social media irresponsibly, and she has paid the just consequences for her actions. She isn’t the first, and most definitely will not be the last.
My apologies if you saw this earlier and/or for sounding like a broken record.
Fuz
Banned
RPS is still good and untainted from excessive SJWism.
Chiggs
Member
They do...sort of, but for people wanting a truly "fair and balanced" look at the news, you're most likely going to multiple sources and keeping track of writers you've observed acting credibly and ethically.
For me, the days of going to one outlet for news are over.
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Do Make Say Think
Banned
I never said she was a victim. I just said that rejoicing over someone getting fired due to social media activity is petty and dumb.
It's partisan nonsense. I am very much against what Price stands for and yet I am joyless about her losing her job, I'd hope that those who also oppose this fourth wave feminism on a reasonable basis understand why.
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I'm sure you know what a figure of speech is, namely a metaphor, a simile. And I'm not claiming it aptly describes her persona, but it's worth pointing this out.
By contrast, nowadays when the radical left calls X,Y and Z nazis, there's no figure of speech at work. They really mean it. They really think X,Y and Z are people who really subscribe to nazi ideology. The trick is quite simple: nazis don't get to voice their ideas, I declare person X to be a nazi, ergo I am justified in violently preventing person X from voicing his ideas. Of course by doing this, the radical left advertises to the world that they haven't got the faintest idea what the authentic nazis stand for - and, absolutely, nazis should be fought against relentlessly in the open marketplace of ideas - who they are. But of course the concern of the radical left is not to be rigorous, the concern is to be expedient, convenient and effective in silencing anyone who dares to disagree with them.
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Do Make Say Think
Banned
Sure.
I am still going to remain skeptical about a group of online posters who are heavily emotionally invested in seeing Price go down claim that their victory is a financial boon to the developer.
This all started because I said everybody lost, the employer lost two employees who, for all we know, are pretty good at their job. Someone said that business improved due to her sacking as an opposing viewpoint and suggested that they believed this based on comments on reddit and the game forum.
Those aren't what I'd consider credible sources of info.
Cleared_Hot
Member
She was hired to develop games. She was not hired to spew her personal ideologies and attack costumers on the internet as a representing member of their company.
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ipukespiders
Member
If being happy she got fired makes a person "dumb" what does being happy Total Biscuit DIED make her?
I'm with you here. I was talking about the cancer metaphor.
I don't play GW2, I wouldn't know. How would you rate her writing?
Indeed, I agree. I highly doubt it. A semester worth of hard data is what would be required to establish that.
Evidence. Have them show evidence.
lifa-cobex
Member
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
I'm thinking of a word...
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Do Make Say Think
Banned
A cunt.
And I remain unmoved, positively or negatively so, in regards to her losing her job. I just find the rejoicing to be unsavoury.
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Do Make Say Think
Banned
I don't play it either (I never got into online gaming).
I was only trying to say that maybe she was a good worker (productivity-wise if nothing else) and that her sacking could very well be an annoyance for the employer. They didn't plan on firing her, this came out of left field (which likely played a big role as to how swift corporate was to respond)