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[jjasper]

Vocal minority? Ha. There are games on there people bash that it is clear it is a vocal minority, but Other M is not one of them.

 

[Foxtastical]

*Or* it´d be realistic. But that is only my interpretation.

Haha, what? Women can't climb things due to strength? Are you fucking serious? Where have you learned this knowledge? From television, books, movies, video games? The real world would tell you otherwise.

 

[crowphoenix]

*Or* it´d be realistic. But that is only my interpretation.

What world do you live in? That is quite possibly the DUMBEST thing I have ever read.

 

[goldenpp72]

I am pretty sure that I am right about calling you a "vocal minority". There are very few people on Gaf that played Other M and *hate* it like you. And then there´s this much bigger group of people that didnt buy Other M because of your agenda. These people only repeat what you guys said and believe it to be correct. These are the guys that will play Other M in around five years and start topics "wth, why did nobody tell me how great this game was?!".

Also, I just looked up Other M´s metacritic score, which is 79. That is a good score and many big, popular websites like Wired, IGN, Gamespot, Gametrailers and Joystick gave the game 85-90 scores. Are these websites sexist? Dumb?



Other M´s story begins with the Baby Metroid´s death at the end of Super Metroid. Why wouldnt there be a bit of a mother-baby theme in the game? But never does the game turn it into an affair of sexism. Are you telling us that because the main character of the game is a girl and the game features a mother-baby theme, it is sexist? I hope you do not.

And if you don´t take back that ridiculous comparison to the horrible past of african americans, I think I won´t continue replying to you. That is absurd and you know it.



*Or* it´d be realistic. But that is only my interpretation.

You seem delightfully mad!

 

[Sennorin]

Haha, what? Women can't climb things due to strength? Are you fucking serious? Where have you learned this knowledge? From television, books, movies, video games? The real world would tell you otherwise.

That is not at all what I said. But it *is* realistic to assume that men are stronger than girls. I assume you find that opinion of mine sexist?

You seem delightfully mad!

Hm, I thought of my postings as rather reasonable, calm. But I admit that the agenda against this game that I found to be a great game unsettles me in the way that it makes me a bit sad, both about how its financial failure lowers the chances for a sequel and how a lot of gamers are missing out on it. In that way, I guess you could call me "mad".

 

[crowphoenix]

That is not at all what I said. But it *is* realistic to assume that men are stronger than girls. I assume you find that opinion of mine sexist?

Actually, that's exactly what you said.

And yes, telling bullshit like "a girl wouldn't have the strength to climb" is pretty much sexist. Or at the very least extremely stupid.

*Or* it´d be realistic. But that is only my interpretation.

Here you refuted the claim that "The statement 'a girl wouldn't have the strength to climb' is sexist" by insisting that the statement is, in fact, realistic. Therefor, you are stating that it is a truth that girls lack the strength to climb. Which is mind bogglingly stupid.

Hm, I thought of my postings as rather reasonable, calm. But I admit that the agenda against this game that I found to be a great game unsettles me in the way that it makes me a bit sad, both about how its financial failure lowers the chances for a sequel and how a lot of gamers are missing out on it. In that way, I guess you could call me "mad".

Hint: Mad means crazy. The word you're thinking of is 'angry.'

 

[Foxtastical]

That is not at all what I said. But it *is* realistic to assume that men are stronger than girls. I assume you find that opinion of mine sexist?

Hm, I thought of my postings as rather reasonable, calm. But I admit that the agenda against this game that I found to be a great game unsettles me in the way that it makes me a bit sad, both about how its financial failure lowers the chances for a sequel and how a lot of gamers are missing out on it. In that way, I guess you could call me "mad".

That's exactly what you said.

 

[Pathetic Basement Virgin]

Other m was decent. I want another one.

 

[Freshmaker]

*Or* it´d be realistic. But that is only my interpretation.

Aside from the obvious BS you're supporting here...

Samus was genetically enhanced. She was physically superior to anyone in the room. There shouldn't have been a "hur hur gurl" dynamic within the squad at all.

 

[Sennorin]

@crowphoenix:

Oh, I can see now how you could have interpreted my posting in that way. But I meant it in a purely relatively way, basically "men are usually stronger than girls". Of course, girls can climb, too, but when you make a game that focuses on climbing, such as TLG seems to do, it is imo a fair assumption that a boy would be a better choice for a main character.

A good example for this is the current women´s soccer worldcup in Germany. Nobody says that girls cannot play soccer, but most soccer-fans agree that watching these girls play soccer is not very fun, not of an enjoyable, high level. Thus, the men´s soccer worldcup remains "the real thing".

Aside from the obvious BS you're supporting here...

Samus was genetically enhanced. She was physically superior to anyone in the room. There shouldn't have been a "hur hur gurl" dynamic within the squad at all.

Are you saying it is unrealistic that a military squad of males-only would initiate a certain gender-biased dynamic? That doesn´t mean that the game is sexist, though. And don´t be angry, there is no need for calling other people´s opinion "BS".

 

[Freshmaker]

Are you saying it is unrealistic that a military squad of males-only would initiate a certain gender-biased dynamic?

Yeah. It's kind of silly to look down on the genetically enhanced super warrior.

A genetically enhanced super warrior? She can't possibly do anything better than I can! Herp derp!

That doesn´t mean that the game is sexist, though. And don´t be angry, there is no need for calling other people´s opinion "BS".

I barely believe you're real. Samus had believable dialogue? Come on.

 

[Sennorin]

Yeah. It's kind of silly to look down on the genetically enhanced super warrior.

A genetically enhanced super warrior? She can't possibly do anything better than I can! Herp derp!

A bunch of military-men. A hot girl. Genetically enhanced super warrior? I don´t think it is wrong to assume that most of these men wouldn´t care one bit about that last piece of information. But that is totally besides the point, because at least in my Other M, the GF soldiers did *not* make constant remarks about Samus´ gender.

I barely believe you're real. Samus had believable dialogue? Come on.

She hardly had any dialogue. I guess you meant to write "monologues"? And yeah, I found them to be find. Not writing masterpieces, but *fine*.

 

[fabricated backlash]

I am pretty sure that I am right about calling you a "vocal minority". There are very few people on Gaf that played Other M and *hate* it like you. And then there´s this much bigger group of people that didnt buy Other M because of your agenda. These people only repeat what you guys said and believe it to be correct. These are the guys that will play Other M in around five years and start topics "wth, why did nobody tell me how great this game was?!".

Explain this logic to me. We are a vocal minority, but somehow our "negative" propaganda was able to get more people to hate Other M, when clearly the vast majority of Other M buyers (the other 4 people) were amazed by it and simply failed to communicate their amazement, thus creating a distorted image where the vocal minority has control over public opinion. Vocal minority by default means that their influence on the overal populace is pretty small. If anything, vocal minorities often tend to have an adverse effect on what they want to achieve, in that they radicalize and polarize themselves, shutting them out of a democratic process of discussion.

Also, I just looked up Other M´s metacritic score, which is 79. That is a good score and many big, popular websites like Wired, IGN, Gamespot, Gametrailers and Joystick gave the game 85-90 scores. Are these websites sexist? Dumb?

Different scores from different people. Never did I say that people aren't entitled to like the game. Far from it. But it doesn't change the fact that the game itself is not only the least successfull Metroid game, it also is regarded as one of, if not the worst game in the series, closely tieing with Metroid 2 in my view. Also, what has liking the game to do with the people liking it being sexist or dumb? Are you really believing that in order to enjoy something you have to subscribe to all intentions of the creators? I guess all the movie enthusiasts that enjoy Leni Riefenstahls movies are Nazis then. Your blanket statements do nothing to help your argument here.

Other M´s story begins with the Baby Metroid´s death at the end of Super Metroid. Why wouldnt there be a bit of a mother-baby theme in the game? But never does the game turn it into an affair of sexism. Are you telling us that because the main character of the game is a girl and the game features a mother-baby theme, it is sexist? I hope you do not.

The Baby Metroid Samus wasted no time bringing to a Galactic Federation Laboratory for experimentation and brutal anal probe insertions. The sexism is prevalent throughout the whole game. Samus' maternal instincts determine her whole actions. Never is Samus a self confident or strong person in Other M. In Fact even right up the very end she is an insecure bimbo that resigns at every male figure in this game, because she simply is bound by her inferior maternal female instincts, while the cold and scientific men are either acting fatherly in light of her silly female behaviour. But that's what women do right. Their brain simply is too busy with thinking about the baby, the baby, the baby, the baby, the baby, the baby...
If Sakamoto tried to explore the female psyche and maternal instincts, he couldn't have done it in a more clumsy and cynical way. Given how bad the rest of the script is, I strongly suspect he was simply too naive to notice the blatant sexism he and Team Ninja were including into the game.

And if you don´t take back that ridiculous comparison to the horrible past of african americans, I think I won´t continue replying to you. That is absurd and you know it.

Why do you think it is a ridiculous comparison? The kind of chauvinistic depiction of Samus in Other M is very akin to the imperialistic superiority thinking displayed by the european intellectuals and clergy, even in countries that didn't have colonies like Austria but wanted to help those poor uncivilized (and on different accounts described as unable to adopt civilization). The paternal obligation to care for those "inferior" beings (be that women or africans) by the sheer perceived (deluded) cultural and moral superiority over those middle things, between animals and humans, that characterized european Imperialism in 1900 is very much alive in Other M.

Now it could well be true that Sakamoto did never intend this depiction. And again, judging from the incredibly stupid script it actually backs the argument, that he simply had no clue or talent to write a character focused story, but unintentional sexism is still sexism, no matter how you want to twist it.

 

[Sennorin]

Since you aren´t taking back the contra-african american racism-history comparison, I will not give you an in-depth reply. But I honestly would´t know what to reply to the following quote anyway, since this is completely made up and not in-game reality. It is your hateful interpretation.

The Baby Metroid Samus wasted no time bringing to a Galactic Federation Laboratory for experimentation and brutal anal probe insertions. The sexism is prevalent throughout the whole game. Samus' maternal instincts determine her whole actions. Never is Samus a self confident or strong person in Other M. In Fact even right up the very end she is an insecure bimbo that resigns at every male figure in this game, because she simply is bound by her inferior maternal female instincts, while the cold and scientific men are either acting fatherly in light of her silly female behaviour. But that's what women do right. Their brain simply is too busy with thinking about the baby, the baby, the baby, the baby, the baby, the baby...
If Sakamoto tried to explore the female psyche and maternal instincts, he couldn't have done it in a more clumsy and cynical way. Given how bad the rest of the script is, I strongly suspect he was simply too naive to notice the blatant sexism he and Team Ninja were including into the game.

 

[ScionOfTheRisingSun]

Here you refuted the claim that "The statement 'a girl wouldn't have the strength to climb' is sexist" by insisting that the statement is, in fact, realistic. Therefor, you are stating that it is a truth that girls lack the strength to climb. Which is mind bogglingly stupid.

To be fair, once back when I was the prince of Wallachia I, for my amusement, arranged for a hobble of orphaned children be put into a deep cavernous ravine and compete to climb the unforgiving jagged crags to the top first for, as I put it, a special reward. I noticed then that most often it was the orphan boys who made it to the top without tumbling to a violent end, were nothing awaited all but a jovial kick back down.

But in all seriousness, I've always found topics rising from people trying to push their particular political agenda in the medium of games to be an exercise in pointless futility.

 

[fabricated backlash]

Since you aren´t taking back the contra-african american racism-history comparison, I will not give you an in-depth reply. But I honestly would´t know what to reply to the following quote anyway, since this is completely made up and not in-game reality. It is your hateful interpretation.

... wait... you're thinking I'm a racist by pointing out what european scientists, statesmen and clergy were saying, thinking and endorsing about Africans in the 19th century, and compared that to the similar chauvinistic depiction of Samus in OtherM?
I'm offended by that, especially since it seems to be a cheap cop out after running out of arguments after your first accusations. I don't take accusations of me being racist lightly.

 

[crowphoenix]

@crowphoenix:
Oh, I can see now how you could have interpreted my posting in that way. But I meant it in a purely relatively way, basically "men are usually stronger than girls". Of course, girls can climb, too, but when you make a game that focuses on climbing, such as TLG seems to do, it is imo a fair assumption that a boy would be a better choice for a main character.

A good example for this is the current women´s soccer worldcup in Germany. Nobody says that girls cannot play soccer, but most soccer-fans agree that watching these girls play soccer is not very fun, not of an enjoyable, high level. Thus, the men´s soccer worldcup remains "the real thing".

But the point is not about who can do it better or who can do it more excitingly. A lot more goes into climbing than pure physical strength. The assertion that a woman can't be the lead in TLG because they wouldn't be strong enough to climb is frankly either malignant bullshit or utter stupidity.

 

[Sennorin]

But the point is not about who can do it better or who can do it more excitingly. A lot more goes into climbing than pure physical strength. The assertion that a woman can't be the lead in TLG because they wouldn't be strong enough to climb is frankly either malignant bullshit or utter stupidity.

But the preference of a male character in *such* a setting is not.

 

[Lone_Prodigy]

Nice GIF.

That is all.

 

[RagnarokX]

Yeah. It's kind of silly to look down on the genetically enhanced super warrior.

A genetically enhanced super warrior? She can't possibly do anything better than I can! Herp derp!

I barely believe you're real. Samus had believable dialogue? Come on.

Inferiority complex man. Of course people are going to pick on someone stronger than them. Samus acknowledges that most of the men in the military were sexist dumbasses. Plus Samus may have been physically strong, but in terms of experience she was very naive. I think her service was pre-manga Zebes.

Samus shows up the men right from the beginning of Other M, blasting open a door that would have taken them hours to cut open. Then she has to rescue them from a certain tailed monster. Male soldiers keep getting picked off by the Deleter. And then Anthony gets easily beaten by Ridley.

I don't see the baby as a maternal instincts thing. Basically Samus has, as far as she knows, just completed her life's mission; she obliterated the metroids and space pirates. But it's left her feeling hollow. She talks about the baby because a metroid, the thing the chozo charged her with wiping from the face of the galaxy, saved her life. She didn't give a crap about it until that. She only really talks about the baby in the intro. She mentions it later when she encounters new metroids because it was supposed to be the last one and when it's explained that the scientists were trying to recreate the metroid-human relationship in order to control them, but the intro is where the lamenting of the baby's death ends. She sees another baby later, remembers the baby hatching, and then decides to kill this one. She spends the game reflecting on her past and mistakes she made throughout it, which is what she was doing when the distress signal came. In the end she resolves her past.

Found this: http://metroid.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Hellkaiserryo12/Metroid_Other_M_ENTIRE_SCRIPT

The word baby appears 14 times total. The baby from Metroid 2 is mentioned 9 times, the rest are new baby metroids or the stupidly named Baby's Cry. The script was very poorly written. Words keep getting repeated when pronouns could have been used and clarifications are given with long sentences that repeat what needed to be clarified over again.

I mean seriously: "Code name: "Baby's Cry." A common SOS with the urgency of a baby crying... The nickname comes from the fact that the purpose of the signal is to draw attention."

How about: "Code name: "Baby's Cry." A common SOS meant to draw urgent attention."

 

[QueenOfThorns]

The gif is fantastic.

Oh, oh lord. The "well it IS more realistic to have a boy be the main character in a giant birddog fantasy game because of UPPER BODY STRENGTH" arguments are back. I mean, aside from the fact that saying you can't have a girl be the main character of a video game because they can't climb means you're saying that girls can't be the main character in ANY video game.

"Oh, Maria the plumber is so unrealistic. Women don't have the proper weight distribution to properly crush a turtle's shell. MAKE IT A DUDE!" It's honestly the most bizarre reasoning I've ever heard. It's a video game. It's not real. It's fantasy. That and, you know, a lot of girls CAN climb. Making this whole DURR IT'S NOT REALISTIC STUFF garbage.

 

[RagnarokX]

The gif is fantastic.

Oh, oh lord. The "well it IS more realistic to have a boy be the main character in a giant birddog fantasy game because of UPPER BODY STRENGTH" arguments are back. I mean, aside from the fact that saying you can't have a girl be the main character of a video game because they can't climb means you're saying that girls can't be the main character in ANY video game.

"Oh, Maria the plumber is so unrealistic. Women don't have the proper weight distribution to properly crush a turtle's shell. MAKE IT A DUDE!" It's honestly the most bizarre reasoning I've ever heard. It's a video game. It's not real. It's fantasy. That and, you know, a lot of girls CAN climb. Making this whole DURR IT'S NOT REALISTIC STUFF garbage.

It's one poster, and I'm not sure what he's arguing. From a purely biological standpoint, men do have more potential in terms of strength, but it's just potential. Either sex can build themselves up into powerhouses or be weak. Samus has been infused with Chozo DNA and has been training all her life. She can kick anyone's ass. Samus is almost in a glass house situation in Other M where she could accidentally kill her comrades, which leads to the authorization; system which makes sense given that context for all of her abilities except for the suit upgrades and grapple beam.

 

[QueenOfThorns]

There's a lot of overlap, though. It may be more accurate to say that men on average have more potential, but not every single man has more potential than every single woman. There's a lot of fluidity to it. (Which is what you're saying anyway.) It just annoys me when people act like every man on the planet has the potential to be Hulk Hogan, while the best women can hope for is half decent.

 

[CorrisD]

All these months I've had Other M and I'm still too scared to play it.

I feel like I would end up hating it, and reading whatever site it was linked back on the first page seems to be on the mark with what a lot of people have been saying about it thus far.

At this point I would rather ignore Other M on my shelf and hope that if we ever get another Metroid game it is more like Super Metroid than Fusion, the 3DS could be a great platform for it, they really just need to re-skin Shadow Complex, lol.

 

[Freshmaker]

1.) The Story. It is super generic. But is it is neither good nor bad. It is a typical video game story, on par with 99,9% of video games.

No.

That aside, this is like saying that criticizing a terrible book is impossible because most books aren't that good. If you have to pretend that no game has ever presented a good story to make your case, you might as well give up.

 

[KevinCow]

And then there´s this much bigger group of people that didnt buy Other M because of your agenda.

"People who disagree with me just have an agenda!!!!!"

Do you by any chance work for Fox News?

Do you not realize that by fervently defending the game, you also show that you have an agenda?

And if you don´t take back that ridiculous comparison to the horrible past of african americans, I think I won´t continue replying to you. That is absurd and you know it.

Oh wow, the, "Take it back or I'm not talking to you anymore!!!!" argument. I haven't heard that one since elementary school.

I don't see the baby as a maternal instincts thing.

I'm pretty sure Sakamoto explicitly stated that this was the intention. And just look at the title of the game. You have not one, but two references to maternity in the there: the MOM acronym, and the word Mother if you flip Other M around.

It was in there, even if you choose to ignore it.

 

[Freshmaker]

Inferiority complex man. Of course people are going to pick on someone stronger than them. Samus acknowledges that most of the men in the military were sexist dumbasses. Plus Samus may have been physically strong, but in terms of experience she was very naive. I think her service was pre-manga Zebes.

Samus shows up the men right from the beginning of Other M, blasting open a door that would have taken them hours to cut open. Then she has to rescue them from a certain tailed monster. Male soldiers keep getting picked off by the Deleter. And then Anthony gets easily beaten by Ridley.

I don't see the baby as a maternal instincts thing. Basically Samus has, as far as she knows, just completed her life's mission; she obliterated the metroids and space pirates. But it's left her feeling hollow. She talks about the baby because a metroid, the thing the chozo charged her with wiping from the face of the galaxy, saved her life. She didn't give a crap about it until that. She only really talks about the baby in the intro.


How about: "Code name: "Baby's Cry." A common SOS meant to draw urgent attention."

The game's a bit too heavy handed for such a generous reading. She gets the baby distress call, then it's off to the bottle ship.

A ship designed and built to look like a cartoon baby bottle.

 

[Sennorin]

All these months I've had Other M and I'm still too scared to play it.

I feel like I would end up hating it, and reading whatever site it was linked back on the first page seems to be on the mark with what a lot of people have been saying about it thus far.

At this point I would rather ignore Other M on my shelf and hope that if we ever get another Metroid game it is more like Super Metroid than Fusion, the 3DS could be a great platform for it, they really just need to re-skin Shadow Complex, lol.

What I´ve been talking about. It is unfortunate that you read that propaganda article, it is a really bad and hateful text. Go play the game and try to forget about that text. If you make sure to remember that Other M is linear, as opposed to your typical non-linear Metroid-game, you might end up enjoying it greatly. If not, you made your own opinion, at least.

@Freshmaker: Other M´s story is no worse than the majority of video games´ stories. I must have missed the games with highly sophisticated stories, but I only played games like Halo, Assassins Creed, GTA4 or Final Fantasy. Other M´s story is no worse than these popular games.

 

[Freshmaker]

@Freshmaker: Other M´s story is no worse than the majority of video games´ stories.

No.

I must have missed the games with highly sophisticated stories, but I only played games like Halo, Assassins Creed, GTA4 or Final Fantasy. Other M´s story is no worse than these popular games.

Those had comparatively good stories. Other M did not.

 

[Sennorin]

No.
Those had comparatively good stories. Other M did not.

I agree to disagree then.

 

[Christine]

What I´ve been talking about. It is unfortunate that you read that propaganda article, it is a really bad and hateful text. Go play the game and try to forget about that text. If you make sure to remember that Other M is linear, as opposed to your typical non-linear Metroid-game, you might end up enjoying it greatly. If not, you made your own opinion, at least.

@Freshmaker: Other M´s story is no worse than the majority of video games´ stories. I must have missed the games with highly sophisticated stories, but I only played games like Halo, Assassins Creed, GTA4 or Final Fantasy. Other M´s story is no worse than these popular games.

Oscar-caliber drama, then?

 

[goldenpp72]

What I´ve been talking about. It is unfortunate that you read that propaganda article, it is a really bad and hateful text. Go play the game and try to forget about that text. If you make sure to remember that Other M is linear, as opposed to your typical non-linear Metroid-game, you might end up enjoying it greatly. If not, you made your own opinion, at least.

@Freshmaker: Other M´s story is no worse than the majority of video games´ stories. I must have missed the games with highly sophisticated stories, but I only played games like Halo, Assassins Creed, GTA4 or Final Fantasy. Other M´s story is no worse than these popular games.

It's not propaganda, other M is nothing more then an average game. The story is shit, the gameplay is stilted and poor many times (auto combat, dpad only controls, forced odd 'scan to find pixel to progress story' crap, etc). The game itself is nothing compared to the likes of your typical metroid, but is somewhat decent on it's own. I felt the game was designed for the sega saturn era, limited 2d with 'omg 3d' moments shoved in to try and convince us the system can do 3d, unfortunately wii is a current machine with fully capable abilities.

It's not to say you're stupid if you enjoy it, but to call those who do not the vocal minority would be stupid, considering any poll or discussion about this game devolves into mostly hate with some like and very rare love. The story in itself is one of the most terrible abominations ever, and coming from someone who just beat bulletstorm, I can confidently say the dialog in that game was a lot more meaningful.

 

[Freshmaker]

I agree to disagree then.

I don't. You're flat out wrong.

 

[Sennorin]

It's not to say you're stupid if you enjoy it, but to call those who do not the vocal minority would be stupid, considering any poll or discussion about this game devolves into mostly hate with some like and very rare love.

Which is because all those people hating Other M are offended by the portrayal of Samus Aran that isn´t like they created her in their own mind and then they consequently try to hate *all of the game*, even though there is only one legitimate issue they have with it. Calling Other M´s gameplay "average" would be unfair, since it is extremely polished and works perfectly fine. If that was what the average video game was like, this industry would be in better shape.

There is nothing I can do but offer a different vocal opinion about Other M, so people like CorrisD find the courage to give this great game a fair chance, instead of either ignoring it or even joining the hate-waggon because *they heard it was bad*. I can understand if people are disappointed by how Samus Aran really is like (an empathic, strong human being), but that shouldn´t effect the reality about Other M´s other parts, which aren´t anywhere near "bad".

by attacking people's motives for criticism.

I am doubting people´s motives, yes.

 

[Christine]

Which is because all those people hating Other M are offended by the portrayal of Samus Aran that isn´t like they created her in their own mind and then they consequently try to hate *all of the game*, even though there is only one legitimate issue they have with it.

First, it's rude as fuck to make this sort of accusation without evidence.

Second, you can't just wave your hand and make the host of completely legitimate issues with the game disappear by attacking people's motives for criticism.

 

[daakusedo]

An abomination, well...

 

[The Hermit]

My last hope that a Nintendo franchise could have an engaging and coherent story died with Other M

 

[Azih]

I am doubting people´s motives, yes.

That's a pointless exercise.

 

[Christine]

I am doubting people´s motives, yes.

Stop doing that. If you can't have this conversation in good faith, you're not really contributing anything of value.

Conflicts between Samus' portrayal and the prior expectations that people had formed about her are not the only issue, nor is it as cut and dry as you're claiming here. For example, in this post I make a point about about genuine inconsistencies between Other M Samus and Prime Samus to support an argument that the canons are distinct.

 

[Barrow Roll]

I am doubting people´s motives, yes.

You really think that paying customers that bought this game only to find out that it's a steaming pile are rallying together to create some anti Other M propaganda campaign?

They're just fans that were really disappointed with the game and are voicing their criticisms on the internet like anybody would with anything else that sucks. When people hear something is bad they tend to avoid it. It happens with bad movies, bad music, bad books, you name it. That's life, it has nothing to do with Other M hater agendas.

 

[RagnarokX]

It's not propaganda, other M is nothing more then an average game. The story is shit, the gameplay is stilted and poor many times (auto combat, dpad only controls, forced odd 'scan to find pixel to progress story' crap, etc). The game itself is nothing compared to the likes of your typical metroid, but is somewhat decent on it's own. I felt the game was designed for the sega saturn era, limited 2d with 'omg 3d' moments shoved in to try and convince us the system can do 3d, unfortunately wii is a current machine with fully capable abilities.

It's not to say you're stupid if you enjoy it, but to call those who do not the vocal minority would be stupid, considering any poll or discussion about this game devolves into mostly hate with some like and very rare love. The story in itself is one of the most terrible abominations ever, and coming from someone who just beat bulletstorm, I can confidently say the dialog in that game was a lot more meaningful.

The story itself isn't bad. The way it's presented is. Terribly written dialog.

 

[Jezan]

All these months I've had Other M and I'm still too scared to play it.

I feel like I would end up hating it, and reading whatever site it was linked back on the first page seems to be on the mark with what a lot of people have been saying about it thus far.

At this point I would rather ignore Other M on my shelf and hope that if we ever get another Metroid game it is more like Super Metroid than Fusion, the 3DS could be a great platform for it, they really just need to re-skin Shadow Complex, lol.

You should stop reading and just pay it, finish it and then come back to the thread to discuss it.

I liked Other M, but the story is bad. IMO because the Metroid were killed in Metroid 2 , except for the baby, and now every game comes up with a clone like thing to have Metroid in the game, same with Ridley.

Other M would be better (specially the Samus vs Ridley scene) if the game took place way earlier into the series timeline, and Samus didn't voice what Adam thought at some point in his life, if Samus is going to voice everything Adam said or thought, then give me a game with Adam, it only showed how weak Samus is/was (in Other M) without him.

Besides in the famous Samus vs Ridley scene when she has the flash backs, nothing explain why, you only see her as a child, but no sign of the parents or anything, she NEVER mentions Ridley killing her parents, the only time she mentions her parents in the game is in "Because I was so young when I lost both of my parents, there's no question I saw Adam as a father figure" and then she mentions Ridley in the actual scene with a "Ridley?!" nothing more or less. So why did she have a breakdown? players that do not follow Metroid will not know wtf happened, and maybe could interpret that part as if she is just too scared of this Ridley monster.

Edit: Sakamoto should acknowledge the Prime series, nothing wrong with that (at least not as Other M levels or wrongness)

 

[Sennorin]

Stop doing that. If you can't have this conversation in good faith, you're not really contributing anything of value.

Conflicts between Samus' portrayal and the prior expectations that people had formed about her are not the only issue, nor is it as cut and dry as you're claiming here. For example, in this post I make a point about about genuine inconsistencies between Other M Samus and Prime Samus to support an argument that the canons are distinct.

The problem I have with these people´s motives is that the gameplay of Other M is not bad. It just isn´t. When I don´t like a game, when a game is *really* bad, I will not try to talk people into believing otherwise. It has become clear a long time ago that those people´s main complaint is Samus Aran´s portrayal. And then they build the criticism about other parts of the game around this base complaint. If people said "Other M sucks because of how it portrays Samus" then that would be okay. If Nintendo gave Link a true voice-actor and he was nothing like I imagined him, I would be disappointed, too. But that wouldn´t mean that this whole Zelda-game was bad. These people that hate Other M don´t have to *like* the game´s gameplay, but they don´t stop at "it´s just okay, nothing special", but proceed to convince everybody of how terribly bad it *is*. I´ve played too many games in my life to let such obvious badmouthing go without vetoing.

This isn´t only those gamers´ fault, though. Unfortunately, it is a common fault of game journalists, where a game that is bad, is bad in all parts. Gameplay sucks, graphics suck? Then music sucks, too. Even though the music might be far from being bad. You see this far too often, where all the sub-scores are almost the same. That is what happened to Other M. Samus´ portrayal sucks, therefore the whole game sucks.

People are offended by the offensively shitty portrayal of Samus because, quite simply, it's offensively shitty.

If this game were a brand new IP with a new leading character but the same story, people would still call the writers out on their bullshit. It's bad enough that they made a complete balls of Samus' character, but the fact that they take it so seriously is what's so aggravating/unintentionally hilarious.

The problem here is that this flesh-eating dog turd of a story is being used in an established and beloved franchise. People are mad that it takes liberties with it's established heroine that they don't like(and rightfully so), but also because it just, well, sucks.

Well, I am sure by using a lot of insulting words, you will successfully convince people to avoid this game. All I can do is calmly tell people that Other M is a great game.

 

[PairOfFilthySocks]

Which is because all those people hating Other M are offended by the portrayal of Samus Aran that isn´t like they created her in their own mind and then they consequently try to hate *all of the game*, even though there is only one legitimate issue they have with it.

People are offended by the offensively shitty portrayal of Samus because, quite simply, it's offensively shitty.

If this game were a brand new IP with a new leading character but the same story, people would still call the writers out on their bullshit. It's bad enough that they made a complete balls of Samus' character, but the fact that they take it so seriously is what's so aggravating/unintentionally hilarious.

The problem here is that this flesh-eating dog turd of a story is being used in an established and beloved franchise. People are mad that it takes liberties with it's established heroine that they don't like(and rightfully so), but also because it just, well, sucks.

 

[KevinCow]

Which is because all those people hating Other M are offended by the portrayal of Samus Aran that isn´t like they created her in their own mind

I'm offended because her character is terrible and embarrassing to watch, and would be terrible and embarrassing even if it wasn't Samus.

The fact that it's Samus does makes it worse, not because I've developed some deep mental image of what Samus's character should be like and will not accept anything else, but because her character in Other M manages to directly conflict with what little we do know about her based on her actions in the first three games.

On the one hand, we have a bounty hunter who regularly infiltrates dangerous territory on her own. We can take a lot of things from these facts alone. First, that she's pretty strong and independent. Second, that she's not really afraid, or at least has control over her fears.

On the Other M hand, we have some chick who idolizes a guy who we never see being anything but an asshole for the entire game, and then explodes into a ball of shrieking, whining, crying, or otherwise becoming completely helpless at the slightest hint of any emotion.

But of course you're going to ignore this, just like you've ignored everything else said about the game, and continue to spout your line that anyone upset with her characterization in this game is just mad that she's not a cold, emotionless killing machine or whatever. Which is ironic, because one of the major complaints is how cold and emotionless she sounds in her monologues.

I am doubting people´s motives, yes.

...What would our motives be? We like Metroid. We don't like Other M. We don't want Metroid to continue down the path that Other M set.

Like.

What do you think we're trying to accomplish by pointing out issues with the game?

Do you think we really liked the game, we're just making shit up just... because?

Do you think we went into the game wanting to dislike it for some reason or another?

Because I was hyped as fuck for the game. I love Metroid. Before this game, it had done absolutely no wrong in my eyes. Every single previous game in the series was at least good, often great. I wouldn't have bought it on day 1 if I hadn't wanted to like it.

 

[erpg]

Arguing with a conspiracy theorist is a fruitless endeavour. Despite Sennorin being dead wrong on most counts, I'm surprised to see so many bothering to raise arms.

 

[Christine]

The problem I have with these people´s motives is that the gameplay of Other M is not bad. It just isn´t. When I don´t like a game, when a game is *really* bad, I will not try to talk people into believing otherwise.

It's far from the worst game ever made. It's serviceable, but I didn't see anything that truly impressed me. It never seemed to rise to true excellence even in its high points, and there are a ton of issues that detract from the fun. Critics of the game have outlined them in great specificity and detail, so I won't reiterate them again. It just frustrates me that you want to dismiss them all with this:

It has become clear a long time ago that those people´s main complaint is Samus Aran´s portrayal. And then they build the criticism about other parts of the game around this base complaint. If people said "Other M sucks because of how it portrays Samus" then that would be okay. If Nintendo gave Link a true voice-actor and he was nothing like I imagined him, I would be disappointed, too. But that wouldn´t mean that this whole Zelda-game was bad.

It's anything but "clear". Is it so hard for you to imagine that other people have a different opinion about the mechanics and fundamentals of the game itself? That flaws you were able to ignore significantly interfered with their enjoyment of the game?

These people that hate Other M don´t have to *like* the game´s gameplay, but they don´t stop at "it´s just okay, nothing special", but proceed to convince everybody of how terribly bad it *is*. I´ve played too many games in my life to let such obvious badmouthing go without vetoing.

This isn´t only those gamers´ fault, though. Unfortunately, it is a common fault of game journalists, where a game that is bad, is bad in all parts. Gameplay sucks, graphics suck? Then music sucks, too. Even though the music might be far from being bad. You see this far too often, where all the sub-scores are almost the same. That is what happened to Other M. Samus´ portrayal sucks, therefore the whole game sucks.

See, this is just bullshit. You don't get to make that call for other people; there are those who didn't have huge issues with Samus' characterization and found many flaws with the gameplay regardless, and even if someone does have strong objections to Samus' portrayal, it doesn't disqualify them from being able to assess other aspects of the game independently of that other issue.

You do not get to make sweeping assumptions about other people's motives and capacity for rational analysis simply because you don't agree with their conclusions. I call bullshit.

 

[DuendeSmoker]

The story itself isn't bad. The way it's presented is. Terribly written dialog.

I mostly agree with this. Except the Ridley scene (I will not go deep into this. It sucks, bitch acts like a bitch.) and the whole assassin thing got half-baked in the end.

Besides that, I did like most of the game. I do think they used a bit too much corridors in the Z axis. It sure looks good wher you're going, but when you get back you can't see shit. Span-Dpad-free-dodge also felt cheap. But my biggest problem with this game is Samus VA. Somebody please give that woman a soul! When the dialog in your game sounds better when you play it on Google translator, something got really really wrong.

Oh yeah, and the baby... They really went overboard with this.

As far as gameplay goes, I can see how they can further develop what they did here to a really awesome level. Pretty good overall.

 

[Sennorin]

It's far from the worst game ever made. It's serviceable, but I didn't see anything that truly impressed me. It never seemed to rise to true excellence even in its high points, and there are a ton of issues that detract from the fun. Critics of the game have outlined them in great specificity and detail, so I won't reiterate them again.

And those who liked the game outlined the game´s positives in great specifity and detail as well. But it is only those that took an issue with Samus´ portrayal that keep badmouthing this game. If someone didnt like the game then that is a valid opinion. As valid as having enjoyed the game. But then to go on a crusade over the course of months and years after this game´s release is *not* reasonable and legitimate. Other M´s gameplay is factually not *that* bad. That is where I take an issue with people´s motives. Samus´ portrayal might be bad enough to these people to go on and on about its crappyness, but that is not how they argue. They mix absurd complaints about the gameplay into their criticism and make it sound as if Other M was a complete turd in terms of gameplay. I assume that you can understand why I take issue with that.

It's anything but "clear". Is it so hard for you to imagine that other people have a different opinion about the mechanics and fundamentals of the game itself? That flaws you were able to ignore significantly interfered with their enjoyment of the game?

No, of course it is possible that different people take different offense for different things. But nothing about Other M´s gameplay justifies this crusade.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

In the next game in the series with Ridley, she fights a hideous, zombie version of Ridley with no problems.

The entire Other M felt like a spin-off game that isn't canon and isn't meant to be considered a Metroid game. It's a shame that it's neither of those...