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[firehawk12]

But... it's pretty factual optimism. People were saying this time last year that bundles were a bubble, and that bundles plus Steam sales were going to devalue indie games and make it impossible to sell your game normally. Instead, what we've seen is HIB breaking new records constantly, IndieRoyale stabilizing into a consistent solid performer for lower-profile indies, Steam sales continuing to provide huge cash infusions to indie developers, and more indie success stories in general. People were saying during HIB3 that they were going to stop buying games until they hit the bundles, yet the HIB5 games did quite well for themselves even before the bundle launched.

Honestly though, when I saw the Aquaria thread bumped yesterday and remembered that it used to cost 16 dollars, you do see a bit of a change. Indie games are a volume business right now. You're selling 5-10 games for around 10-15 bucks a pop. I mean, that's still probably more revenue than any of those games alone would have made at 10 dollars each probably, but I think it's also training people to wait for these bundles.

 

[Stumpokapow]

Honestly though, when I saw the Aquaria thread bumped yesterday and remembered that it used to cost 16 dollars, you do see a bit of a change. Indie games are a volume business right now. You're selling 5-10 games for around 10-15 bucks a pop. I mean, that's still probably more revenue than any of those games alone would have made at 10 dollars each probably, but I think it's also training people to wait for these bundles.

Something being a "volume" business isn't problematic. It's only problematic if it can't sustain that volume. In fact, volume is the best way to marry the economic objectives of the business (make money, feed kids) with the psychological/artist ones (share something you're proud of making with as many people in your target audience as possible).

Lots and lots of optimism in this post.

History has vindicated me so far.

 

[firehawk12]

Something being a "volume" business isn't problematic. It's only problematic if it can't sustain that volume. In fact, volume is the best way to marry the economic objectives of the business (make money, feed kids) with the psychological/artist ones (share something you're proud of making with as many people in your target audience as possible).

It's a tricky balance. First and foremost, the games have to be good enough to garner sales at a 10-15 dollar level at launch (most of these games with the exception of Psychonauts (harhar) are hits, after all), and then you can essentially sell them at a bargain basement price.

I just wonder how it worked out for the Lone Survivor dev, since his game is the "newest".

 

[Jomjom]

You guys joke, but there are a lot of people who do exactly this. Devaluing through sales is a real thing.

I'm one of those, but I don't think that it has anything to do with devaluing. If it weren't for these sales, I would just not be buying these games at all. Some money is better than none.

 

[firehawk12]

I'm one of those, but I don't think that it has anything to do with devaluing. If it weren't for these sales, I would just not be buying these games at all. Some money is better than none.

"Wait for the Steam sale" has become a phrase here, after all. Whether that's a good or bad thing is probably for someone smarter than me to figure out though.

 

[charlequin]

Honestly though, when I saw the Aquaria thread bumped yesterday and remembered that it used to cost 16 dollars, you do see a bit of a change.

Aquaria used to be $16 because it used to be a new game. People still launch indie titles at higher prices -- LIMBO and Bastion both started at $15, and so have other recent indie successes like Legend of Grimrock. People can't expect to keep a game at $15 forever anymore, but that'd be true regardless of the bundles just due to the sheer volume of indie product these days.

 

[kevm3]

After all the screwjobs developers have been giving us this generation, we actually have consumers arguing that games are too cheap? PC prices rose $10 for no real reason other than the fact developers felt they could get more money. PC games used to be cheaper than console games $10. We don't even get a discount on digital games, even though they don't need a retail presence, nor do they have to incur costs for printing out boxes, pressing discs, etc. The savings aren't passed along to us. They are simply pocketed. We can go into all of the DLC packs, the locked on disc content and so on and so forth...

Sales may make a lot of people 'wait for games', but then again a lot of games get bought that wouldn't have gotten bought in the first place. I got Bioshock 1 and 2 for $5 each or whatever low price it was selling at, but that's $10 going to 2k games that I wouldn't have otherwise spent. If not for these sales, these developers would be complaining that not enough people are buying their games because they are using way more discretion at spending their $60 than they would spending $10 to $15.

 

[mclaren777]

I'm really bummed that the soundtrack for Lone Survivor wasn't included in this bundle.

 

[Dusk Golem]

I'm really bummed that the soundtrack for Lone Survivor wasn't included in this bundle.

You can always buy the soundtrack from him, it really is fantastic and again was made by Jasper himself.

http://spacerecordings.bandcamp.com/album/lone-survivor-original-soundtrack

Bought it a while ago, it's always nice to support him.

 

[Crub]

Some random predicitions for future Humble Bundles, which I'm only posting so I can brag in case I'm proven correct:

Legend of Grimrock (Mac version in the works, DRM-free on GOG.)
Offspring Fling (Steam, Humble Store, Mac + PC, devoloper has stated a Linux version is a possibility.)
Indie Game: The Movie (We already got a movie in the Botanicula Debut and no movie is a better fit for a HB. It even got a Steam release.)
Tiny & Big (Steam, Humble Store, DRM-free, all three platforms. I think it is very likely to be in HIBVI.)
Retro City Rampage (Buyable through Humble Store. Being released on a wide range of platforms imply it's not too hard to port. I bet it won't be in any bundle before HIBVII, though.)
Penny Arcade Adventures: Episode 3 (Good fit for an Android Bundle. Only lacks a Linux version.)
Squids/Squids 2 (Same as the game above. They have already showed some interest in indie bundles by having the OST of Squids being featured in Inde Game Music Bundle 2.)

Edit:
Dynamite Jack
Dustforce
Real Texas
Wizorb
Cubemen
Bean's Quest

 

[Shiggy]

Some random predicitions for future Humble Bundles, which I'm only posting so I can brag in case I'm proven correct:

Legend of Grimrock (Mac version in the works, DRM-free on GOG.)
Offspring Fling (Steam, Humble Store, Mac + PC, devoloper has stated a Linux version is a possibility.)
Indie Game: The Movie (We already got a movie in the Botanicula Debut and no movie is a better fit for a HB. It even got a Steam release.)
Tiny & Big (Steam, Humble Store, DRM-free, all three platforms. I think it is very likely to be in HIBVI.)
Retro City Rampage (Buyable through Humble Store. Being released on a wide range of platforms imply it's not too hard to port. I bet it won't be in any bundle before HIBVII, though.)
Penny Arcade Adventures: Episode 3 (Good fit for an Android Bundle. Only lacks a Linux version.)
Squids/Squids 2 (Same as the game above. They have already showed some interest in indie bundles by having the OST of Squids being featured in Inde Game Music Bundle 2.)

How do I get to the Humble Store? I can only find individual game pages via Google.

 

[tsab]

How do I get to the Humble Store? I can only find individual game pages via Google.

you can't afaik you visit the game page and the payment /key/download etc is processed via humble store

 

[BlueMagic]

I would love to see Dustforce.
I'll probably end up buying it though, one way or another.

 

[Madrugador]

Overgrowth will eventually be in a bundle. It's from the same guys who manage HIB and made Lugaru.

 

[Overdoziz]

I wish Psychonauts didn't have so many cutscenes. I've played it for about 2 hours now and half of it was spend watching them.

 

[jediyoshi]

Overgrowth will eventually be in a bundle. It's from the same guys who manage HIB and made Lugaru.

It'd be a big stretch if it were anytime soon considering their asking price for the game alone. I don't believe they've directly handled the bundle for a while now as well

 

[Crub]

I would love to see Dustforce.
I'll probably end up buying it though, one way or another.

Forgot about that one! Definitely think we will se it in an upcoming bundle.

 

[Rawket Lawnchair]

I'd like to see the Geneforge and Eschalon games in a Humble Bundle as well. They're all on Steam too.

 

[dock]

Was there ever an explanation as to why Pyschonauts is part of this bundle? Are people now okay with calling this indie, or it just that the bundle name is irrelevant?

I noticed that Eidos' Commandos series is also in a bundle now, so this is becoming a thing.

 

[Stumpokapow]

Was there ever an explanation as to why Pyschonauts is part of this bundle? Are people now okay with calling this indie, or it just that the bundle name is irrelevant?

DoubleFine bought the rights back from Majesco and now fully owns Psychonauts. No revenue from the sale goes to a publisher. You might consider them to not fit the spirit of independent gaming because a publisher originally funded the game or because DF is too large, but that's the factual explanation of why it qualifies.

I noticed that Eidos' Commandos series is also in a bundle now, so this is becoming a thing.

Pretty near 100% of the Indie Gala games have had commercial publishers, since the beginning. Several of the BeMine games have as well. It's just that no one thinks of "Meridian4" as an actual publisher.

 

[dock]

DoubleFine bought the rights back from Majesco and now fully owns Psychonauts. No revenue from the sale goes to a publisher. You might consider them to not fit the spirit of independent gaming because a publisher originally funded the game or because DF is too large, but that's the factual explanation of why it qualifies.

Wow. So if a developer becomes wealthy enough to buy the rights to a game it works on, that makes that title retroactively indie... despite the design and production depending upon the influence of an external source. That's revolting.

Pretty near 100% of the Indie Gala games have had commercial publishers, since the beginning. Several of the BeMine games have as well. It's just that no one thinks of "Meridian4" as an actual publisher.

Interesting. The last one I saw was Cardinal Quest, Smiles, etc which are all done by 1-2 guys. Didn't realise they were doing this with all of their bundles. Gross.

 

[morningbus]

Wow. So if a developer becomes wealthy enough to buy the rights to a game it works on, that makes that title retroactively indie... despite the design and production depending upon the influence of an external source. That's revolting.

I hope you're just using colorful language and aren't this concerned over Psychonauts being part of the bundle.

Is Bastion not an indie game either? Or Shank? Hell, most of these games that got Xbox releases were published by Microsoft at some point, too.

 

[Platy]

I hope you're just using colorful language and aren't this concerned over Psychonauts being part of the bundle.

Is Bastion not an indie game either? Or Shank? Hell, most of these games that got Xbox releases were published by Microsoft at some point, too.

While I agree that Psychonauts is indie, Bastion and Shank were made without any money or help and THEN they got a publisher

Splosion Man to me is an indie game ... even if the developers are almost second party

 

[dock]

I'm not that concerned, it's just interesting that the word indie is completely worthless.

 

[morningbus]

While I agree that Psychonauts is indie, Bastion and Shank were made without any money or help and THEN they got a publisher

Splosion Man to me is an indie game ... even if the developers are almost second party

I see your point, I just don't think its a distinction worth worrying about. Has Tim Schafer ever lamented that the version of Psychonauts that got released wasn't his vision? I'm sure there were concessions made to get it on the consoles, but those were probably similar concessions that any developer makes, "legit indie" or not.

I'm not that concerned, it's just interesting that the word indie is completely worthless.

Double Fine is a completely independent studio. Unless your definition of an indie developer is just two guys in a garage banging away on borrowed laptops, they meet the criteria of independent game creators.

I understand that you're basically saying any amount of publisher money taints the indie moniker, I get it. If it helps you sleep at night, think of it like this: publisher money was used to allow an independent game studio to create the game they wanted.

 

[EternalGamer]

I see your point, I just don't think its a distinction worth worrying about. Has Tim Schafer ever lamented that the version of Psychonauts that got released wasn't his vision? I'm sure there were concessions made to get it on the consoles, but those were probably similar concessions that any developer makes, "legit indie" or not.



Double Fine is a completely independent studio. Unless your definition of an indie developer is just two guys in a garage banging away on borrowed laptops, they meet the criteria of independent game creators.

I understand that you're basically saying any amount of publisher money taints the indie moniker, I get it. If it helps you sleep at night, think of it like this: publisher money was used to allow an independent game studio to create the game they wanted.

I think of it more as balding persons.

There are some people that are completely bald, there are some people with bad comb overs and there are people with full hair. Just because someone falls in between doesn't mean there isn't any clear distinction to be had between a bald man and a person with a full head of hair.

Same goes for "indie" label.

 

[Zia]

Double Fine is an independent studio. Though Psychonauts was not produced independently, they own the rights to it and have since (re)released it for PC and Mac with improvements and achievements that were produced independently. I think you're just mincing semantics.

 

[Deleted member 20415]

I'm not that concerned, it's just interesting that the word indie is completely worthless.

Well, one could argue that it's been stolen as a term from music, or movies or whatever and that the spirit of it was lost long ago.

I think there's muddled use of that word all across the entertainment landscape. It's part descriptive of a work's tone, it's part descriptive of business practices... but what does it really mean? I don't particularly care... but I think everyone should come to terms with it being a marketing label.

 

[dock]

When Microsoft are paying the bills they had a say in the way that Psychonauts got made.
When Majesco was paying the bills they had a say in it, and the time between that was spent controlling the product to woo the appeals of another funder.

It's really naive to think that publishers have no influence on the game development. They're dancing to their tune, ultimately.

but you are right that it doesn't really matter if the audience perception is the target.

 

[Foxy Fox 39]

Im so angry I missed this bundle. I've been trying to play Sword and Shield for a long time now.

 

[morningbus]

When Microsoft are paying the bills they had a say in the way that Psychonauts got made.
When Majesco was paying the bills they had a say in it, and the time between that was spent controlling the product to woo the appeals of another funder.

It's really naive to think that publishers have no influence on the game development. They're dancing to their tune, ultimately.

but you are right that it doesn't really matter if the audience perception is the target.

Just trying to understand your point of view: is Braid an indie-game despite the fact that Microsoft published it on the Xbox? Braid had to fit within the boundaries of Microsoft's platform, no matter how ill-defined those boundaries may be.

When does an indie game stop being an indie game? Is it just "paying the bills?" Or is it exercising any kind of control over a product?

 

[dock]

Publishing on XBLA is often done without much of an advance, but I see your point. Most of the XBLA contracts I've been exposed to rely on the developer sourcing funding elsewhere, it's more like a distribution deal than a publishing deal (like Steam).

It's obvious that my opinion is wrong in most popular stances here, so I think I just yield to the fact that indie is just a handy modern label used for slightly weird games. If the people behind them are popular or present themselves a certain way that's a benefit.

It's just a bit creepy to see companies like Eidos and Double Fine misrepresenting older products for the benefit of their image or bottom line.

 

[Game Guru]

Well, then... Do the Oddworld games count as indie? They were published by GT Interactive, which is now the current Atari.

Hell, Cave Story has had a full on physical release by Nippon Ichi. Does that mean Cave Story is no longer an indie game?

To me, an indie game is one owned by an independent game studio. Both Oddworld Inhabitants and Double Fine fall under that, even if their previous games were full-on physical releases that they had approval from a publisher for. Studio Pixel also counts despite having a publisher for the 3DS version.

It's like saying the Toxic Avenger is not indie just because it later had an actual cartoon series licensed to an actual animation studio. Troima, an independent studio, still owns the rights to it, even the rights to the cartoon series.