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I don't get "undubs"
- Thread starter Deft Beck
- Start date
Same for me.
yep, I grew up watching Hong Kong movies which always had subs. I would look at them even tho I knew what was being said. I guess that makes us have the ability to read quickly and still enjoy the scenes. Weird but true. I'll never understand people who can't watch anything with subs.
RoninChaos
Member
To add, I also think that some voice acting can really show how absurd the dialogue of something actually it is. One of the best/worst things to happen to games was voice acting. Some things sound fine when read, but when spoken are absolutely atrocious.
Well, most of them are. There's always an Arc Rise Fantasia.
(Conversely, there's also the exceedingly rare case of the dub actually being better, like in FF12. But a lot of preconditions have to be fulfilled for that to be possible)
I think that's an innate human ability. Like how babies react to voices even if they can't talk yet, or how people that end up in countries where they don't know the language can manage.
If you have access to people that speak other languages, try being around when they talk. You'd be surprised with how much you can get just from their voices (my mother's family is like this. I'll learn Quechua eventually, I guess)
Bayonetta's voice acting and Xenoblade's dub were great too imo, I hope more games get British dubs
Same here, just replace Portuguese with Spanish. It's even better since speaking English well is a plus in any job, since it's so rare over here
Cave Johnson
Member
All that needs to be said.
DQVIII as well. British VO never fails.
RoninChaos
Member
I live in a bi-lingual household currently. My wife's native language isn't english. I get the basis of what you're saying but I really don't think that hold's water when used as an argument for dubs. I expanded on these thoughts on the last page if you want to take a look.
The overall quality of German Dubs is great, in general.
Unfortuantely German video game dubs are much more budget-challenged, and have to work under worse conditions.
- no clear picture to lip sync on
- lesser high quality speakers
- often you don't know the context of a line
- games with a lot of text are much more complex than a movie, so it is difficult for one director to even knwo how a line shall be performed. (just imagine a simple "No" - is it no, as in I don't wanna sleep with you, or no, you can't use that weapon right now, or no, he is dead)
And even if a dub happens to be good or great, the original is often in a language (English), that many of the playerbase can understand very well.
Oh yeah I think that is the one instance where american dub is superior to original, when it's a portrayal of another culture/nation, like Professor Layton. I'm sure there are people who prefer the original or whatever, but the British voice acting gives it a more authentic feel.
cj_iwakura
Member
There's good dubs and bad dubs, same as anything else. If it's good, I'll use the dub. If it's not an option, I'll watch the sub.
Heck, I deliberately went out of my way to add dubbing to a fan translation project, just because I thought it would give it an extra spark.
It isn't necessary at all, but it's a nice touch.
Heck, I deliberately went out of my way to add dubbing to a fan translation project, just because I thought it would give it an extra spark.
It isn't necessary at all, but it's a nice touch.
Because most of those people grew on english games and english is their second language. Polish DUB didn't exist till 2000 and at that time those were very selective games like Baldurs Gate.
I played Fallout 1 without knowing at all english and thanks to that game and F2 i learned a lot language.
Also english language is everywhere it is common to hear lector in EU english movies which means you hear original VA and dude who says what that dude in movie said in native language.
& i don't get dubs...
seriously, native language / subtitles for all games (as with movies), & be done with it. dubs are pointless/useless (& get in the way of localization)...
Surprise, surprise, some people actually like the entire product localized into their native language because it's more enjoyable for them. Just as some people like the language and such the product was originally made with, others like the product to have other options available.
Kyon said:
And as usual, there's a fair amount of completely inaccurate hyperbole thrown in here and there.
Zero III is the best in English. No argument.
ThaiGrocer
Member
I think it also extends from the unintended humor that I got from dubbed movies as a kid. Just because you can disable the mouth of a human model or get it to move in proper sync to the voice, it still modifies the original work. Localized!
NekoFever
Member
I would never watch a dubbed movie. Games, though? I don't particularly care.
Sometimes if the game is set in a certain place I'd prefer the spoken language to be authentic, which is why I was disappointed that Shenmue wasn't available with the original VO and subtitles and would love an undub of that game. I'm not going to play a game in Japanese when it's had a quality localisation job just because it was made in Japan – Ni No Kuni, for example, is very Japanese but is set in small town America, so I have no problem playing that in English. Any fantasy game set in a world based on medieval Europe would seem weird in Japanese.
I'd probably reconsider if a game was performance captured like a Naughty Dog game or LA Noire. In those cases, you're actually watching the performance of the actor, and so I want the voice to go with it, just like a movie.
And all this besides the point that playing in Japanese with English subtitles isn't getting the original intent, as the subtitles match the English voices, not the original.
Also the Layton games are an odd example, as the UK versions have different voices to the American ones.
Sometimes if the game is set in a certain place I'd prefer the spoken language to be authentic, which is why I was disappointed that Shenmue wasn't available with the original VO and subtitles and would love an undub of that game. I'm not going to play a game in Japanese when it's had a quality localisation job just because it was made in Japan – Ni No Kuni, for example, is very Japanese but is set in small town America, so I have no problem playing that in English. Any fantasy game set in a world based on medieval Europe would seem weird in Japanese.
I'd probably reconsider if a game was performance captured like a Naughty Dog game or LA Noire. In those cases, you're actually watching the performance of the actor, and so I want the voice to go with it, just like a movie.
And all this besides the point that playing in Japanese with English subtitles isn't getting the original intent, as the subtitles match the English voices, not the original.
Also the Layton games are an odd example, as the UK versions have different voices to the American ones.
I prefer reading dialog to hearing it when it comes to most video games, so I usually just set dubbed games to the original audio to either avoid/ignore bad voice acting or enhance immersion in certain games. As for undubs: why not? It's just patching in an option that should have been there in the first place.
Now I have to go see if I can patch my copy of Yakuza 1 to have Japanese audio and play it on PCSX2.
Now I have to go see if I can patch my copy of Yakuza 1 to have Japanese audio and play it on PCSX2.
cj_iwakura
Member
Also, it's fun to watch clever writers make English puns that substitute for obscure Japanese jokes.
Case in point, Steins;Gate.
Case in point, Steins;Gate.
I see how this argument applies to Polish, but games were always dubbed in e.g. German, yet many people still hate it with a passion.
KillerMan91
Member
naw, I'm fine with Demons Souls and Dark Souls being in English.
Well sure for some games dub fits a lot better than for others but I wouldn't have a problem to play those games in Japanese either =P. I don't have anything against the dubs per se (would have missed a lot of great games otherwise) but now as we are in the age of blu-ray every game should have dual audio.
There was never much pride in it, and many voice actrs actually like to be unknown. The average person could probably name no dubbing actor, besides those who happened to be famous before and are usually only hired for publicity, and very often, don't do a good job as a dubbing actor.
No pride, but quality.
Yeah, a few times I've heard people argue that the jokes aren't 'authentic', especially recently for like the Dangan Ronpa fan translation that had similar american-ization of jokes. Who would actually want jokes that completely fly over their head though?
Also, Demon's/Dark Souls is another instance like Professor Layton where the setting works best in English already.
TangerineCloud
Banned
I hear you. Though I think that's mostly the fault of cinematic cutscenes. When you're just communicating through text boxes, then yeah, the dialog is gonna need to be a bit overdone in order to communicate the right emotions and personality. But when you have characters with expressive faces and bodies actually acting out and adding vocals to that cheesy, overdone dialogue... *barf*
All games or selective ? If i remember right most of games i played when there was no PC market (i mean shops selling games) in Poland were German boxes with english games or UK imported games.
To this day i have EarthSiege 2 box with German sprehen all over it and game was full Eng.
Sentenza
Member
You are assuming this is just a thing with Japanese stuff. That's not the case.
Give me the option and I'm going with the original ("undubbed") version with anything in any language.
Subtitles are more than enough to grasp the general sense of a dialogue (in not a single way inferior to dubs, really) and the original voice over is in 99 case out of 100 the way to enjoy the most genuine experience, with the most appropriate tone, expression, vocal timbre.
And, let's face it, more often than not even the best actors. Which matters a lot.
I don't need to understand Japanese, Chinese or French to recognize a believable tone of surprise/amusement/rage etc, but "knowing the language" doesn't make a bad actor sound any better. If anything makes his terrible performance even more jarring.
P.S. on a side note, even when I listen to English movie/games I'm picking the original over my native language, the one I understand better. But I guess for some reason that doesn't sound very exotic to you.
WrenchNinja
Member
Its hard to say FFXIII has terrible actors when there are pretty well known voice actors on the game.
Not even the best actors can make a bad script sound good, and FFXIII most assuredly has a bad script.
you should totally look up videos of Time and Eternity.
yep, i would blame the script entirely. not even great voice actors in that game can make the dialogue sound bearable.
I hate dubs. And if a game doesn't give me dual audio and I can't use it on an emulator to play it as undub, I struggle very much to play it. E.G. Tales of Graces is one of the most atrocious things I have ever played and I wanted to poke my ears at some point. Asbel + Cheria's VA were SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO bad, it was astonishing.. FF series is one of the few that get dubs right, and even here it's a bit character depending. Currently playing Lost Odyessey and can't thank them enough for the original VA option.
Also, you don't need to understand the language (although I understand quite a bit) to get the intonation and which emotions they convey. Dubs lack that more than anything most of the time. In a land where VA is a HUGE business and you have dedicated schooles for it everywhere vs a land where they rather reshoot a whole movie instead of watching it with subtitles...
Tho, don't get me wrong, the US isn't alone in that. While germany has quite good VAs for movies, for games it's often one among the worst unless it's named Gothic or Outcast.
If a game is native english, I play that in english of course (Portal, Bioshock, Mass Effect etc). Same for movies. the OV is almost always the best version.
However, there is one dub which I find superior to the japanese version: NieR
They got that DAMN right.
Also, you don't need to understand the language (although I understand quite a bit) to get the intonation and which emotions they convey. Dubs lack that more than anything most of the time. In a land where VA is a HUGE business and you have dedicated schooles for it everywhere vs a land where they rather reshoot a whole movie instead of watching it with subtitles...
Tho, don't get me wrong, the US isn't alone in that. While germany has quite good VAs for movies, for games it's often one among the worst unless it's named Gothic or Outcast.
If a game is native english, I play that in english of course (Portal, Bioshock, Mass Effect etc). Same for movies. the OV is almost always the best version.
However, there is one dub which I find superior to the japanese version: NieR
They got that DAMN right.
Not all of them of course, but the vast majority of popular titles.
"Yeah, that'll work."
If I didn't speak English well I wouldn't even be able to tell if a line like that is sarcasm just by hearing it. I can't say with total confidence "this is a good/bad Japanese dub." Obviously I can tell when a seiyuu is attempting to convey an emotion but that doesn't mean that, to someone who knows how real Japanese people emote in Japanese, they're any more successful than a Disney Channel original movie.
If I didn't speak English well I wouldn't even be able to tell if a line like that is sarcasm just by hearing it. I can't say with total confidence "this is a good/bad Japanese dub." Obviously I can tell when a seiyuu is attempting to convey an emotion but that doesn't mean that, to someone who knows how real Japanese people emote in Japanese, they're any more successful than a Disney Channel original movie.
Memento_Mori15
Member
Original voices tend to be better(with a few cases excluded). Example, Last of Us in English is phenomenal. The Japanese dub? Terrible. However, Kingdom Hearts dub>>>>Japanese dub. Can't stand Donald in Japanese.
If the Japanese subtitles or voices exist, I put them on since I'm studying Japanese on the side. But I usually save that for my dramas/anime/manga. I watch/read them completely in Japanese. Better immersion in my opinion since you're constantly reading/hearing the Japanese. Not so much in video games since you're playing and have to wait for a cutscene.
If the Japanese subtitles or voices exist, I put them on since I'm studying Japanese on the side. But I usually save that for my dramas/anime/manga. I watch/read them completely in Japanese. Better immersion in my opinion since you're constantly reading/hearing the Japanese. Not so much in video games since you're playing and have to wait for a cutscene.
I go for whatever sounds the best. I started playing Onimusha 4 in English but I didn't find the voice acting very good, and then I switched over to the Japanese voices which sounds a lot better. In Assassin's Creed 2, I played with Italian voices because I felt it helped it with the setting. Recently I played through Chains of Satinav and I wish I could play with the original German voices because the English dub is a bit all over the place.
I should note that I always play with subtitles (even when playing with English voices) and my native language isn't English, so that may be part of the reason why I'm okay to change to different dubs depending on what I think works best.
I should note that I always play with subtitles (even when playing with English voices) and my native language isn't English, so that may be part of the reason why I'm okay to change to different dubs depending on what I think works best.
Yep, me as well. I dunno why, I often don't even read them, but this way you miss nothing in case it's inaudible or covered with noise.
Sorry, thread's moving fast
I see what you mean, and I guess the reason I'm fine with that issue is that I look more for a general feeling of the dialogue (tone) rather than a more exact rendition of the original intent (tone + inflection). As a bonus, that makes the occassional disconnect between what is being said and what is being written in the subtitles not a problem for me
Aquamarine
Member
I third this. Whenever I watch any shows, movies or games, I prefer subtitles on all the time as a convenience.
It would only be hard if i was making the sweeping generalizations you seem to think i am. Not even sure what we're debating here tbh.
Anyone have any experience playing MGS in it's original language? always wondered what it was like. I've heard snippets of Akio Ōtsuka playing him and he sounds awesome.
Lumination
'enry 'ollins
Developing an ear for tone doesn't detect things English scripts are often lamblasted for, such as writing. Japanese scripts can be equally hokey and cheesy. As a matter of fact, many cheesy English dubs could probably be traced back to the Japanese source, such as the famous "ganbatte!". How often do you hear "Do your best" when it's clearly out of place given the atmosphere? That's often a direct literal translation of a more versatile (but still a bit childish) Japanese equivalent.
It's fine to want the original intent (who's treating you like a race traitor?), but we're just saying that oftentimes the original intent isn't much better and probably not worth the effort.
Not really, many games aren't dubbed at all.
It depneds on the series and the publisher.
Some big series were never dubbed or stopped after the first game:
GTA & other stuff from Rockstar,
Metal Gear Solid,
Max Payne
EA & Ubisoft: good dubs, almost all of the games
Microsoft: quality varies, even some small XBLA titles are dubbed
Blizzard: almost all games, recent ones are good
Sega, Konami, Capcom: rare dubs, usuallay not good
Nintendo: almost no dubs, and usually average quality. (Their text only games translations are great though)
RyougaSaotome
Member
I've been playing through them, and they're all uniformly excellent. Akio Otsuka is a veteran like no other, and the man is just a really talented actor.
Metal Gear is an odd one for me because I actually think the Japanese games utilize better actors across the board. I'm grateful that I can play appreciate both sides though.
RoninChaos
Member
It's all good. I can see it for tone. I know when my wife or mother in law are getting heated even if I don't understand all of what they're saying. But it's not like I can tell which words they're putting emphasis on and then use that same reasoning as to why I would watching something with subs. I don't know what those words mean, I'm only reading the subs. Yes, I can hear the actors as they speak, but I don't know that they're putting emphasis on a word like "but" or something in the dialogue. That's why saying 'OH I watch them for the inflection!" doesn't seem to make sense. You need to understand the language at least to get the true inflection of something. Tone you can get without understanding the language, but inflection? I don't see how it's possible to know what the speaker was putting emphasis on if you don't understand the language down to the individual words.
Further, video games tend to really have some hamfisted dialogue. Even in its native language what the characters are saying probably sounds stupid anyway.
Interesting. I've only been buying british/US copies of games for the past decade or so, so I wasn't aware that some of these rather big franchises aren't dubbing these days.
One plus of videogames is, that they can translate the world as well, roadsigns, displays, etc.
I hate, when the dub doesn't bother to do the grunts and hitsounds. When you can really tell the original actress is being hurt or moaning, while a dubbing actress is only doing the dialog scenes.
Do you mean literally different or actually with a different intention?
I hate, when the dub doesn't bother to do the grunts and hitsounds. When you can really tell the original actress is being hurt or moaning, while a dubbing actress is only doing the dialog scenes.
Do you mean literally different or actually with a different intention?
Aw man I'm totally jealous, he's excellent as Bato in Stand Alone Complex. As someone who's never been that enamored with Hayter I'd love to experience another take on Snake. Think I'll look and see if there's an undub for Snake Eater.