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[Stilton Disco]

Ok, this has made me run late for work, as I had to stop getting ready and actually hold a controller to try and understand what MikeDip is talking about, and I just cannot comprehend what the problem is.

Are you simply not gripping it high enough up the handles? Only using your fingertips? Just poor joints and thus range of finger movement? I just cannot get my head around finding something so easy, using a device designed to follow the natural resting shape of a human hand (particularly in the DS4's case. Such a brilliant controller), to be so difficult as to cause discomfort. Madness!

 

[MikeDip]

Heh, the number of fingers wasn't even in my mind. I was just trying to describe the rotation motion to move that index finger to those buttons. Like rotating the knob clockwise, it rotates the controller downwards.

Maybe a better picture you can use in your heads is drinking from a glass.

 

[Mohonky]

I honestly hate them aswell.

They are ok for every now and again things you might need to do but if they are allocated to one of the main actions they are annoying.

 

[tuxfool]

What? Who twists a knob with four fingers together? I use my thumb and index (maybe middle as well) to turn a dial.

Also how is twisting the knob any way analogous to pressing the trigger buttons? One is a linear motion, the other is circular.

 

[MikeDip]

I honestly hate them aswell.

They are ok for every now and again things you might need to do but if they are allocated to one of the main actions they are annoying.

How do you feel about triggers? Those fine for you?

 

[Pinko Marx]

Heh, the number of fingers wasn't even in my mind. I was just trying to describe the rotation motion to move that index finger to those buttons. Like rotating the knob clockwise, it rotates the controller downwards.

Maybe a better picture you can use in your heads is drinking from a glass.

still have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[xxracerxx]

Heh, the number of fingers wasn't even in my mind. I was just trying to describe the rotation motion to move that index finger to those buttons. Like rotating the knob clockwise, it rotates the controller downwards.

Maybe a better picture you can use in your heads is drinking from a glass.

Can your index fingers not do this?

See how the hand stays still and the fingers in place? That is how the you reach the shoulder buttons and not rotate the controller.

 

[Gsnap]

Heh, the number of fingers wasn't even in my mind. I was just trying to describe the rotation motion to move that index finger to those buttons. Like rotating the knob clockwise, it rotates the controller downwards.

Maybe a better picture you can use in your heads is drinking from a glass.

So you're saying you have to rotate your entire wrist to reach the shoulder buttons?

Then yes, the problem is with you not the controller. That really sucks, though, sine there's really not much you can do about that.

 

[knightfolk]

You have a right to your opion, but I will sleep soundly tonight knowing your are not in the controller making business.

 

[Silphonica]

Eliminating shoulder buttons, but not triggers, should be the next step in controller comfort. Move those shoulder buttons behind the controller where your middle, or even ring, fingers have easy access.

Scuff controllers have buttons back there, they are fucking terrible, those fingers in the back don't have the same flexibility.

Current set-up is basically perfect.

 

[tuxfool]

Can your index fingers not do this?

See how the hand stays still and the fingers in place? That is how the you reach the shoulder buttons and not rotate the controller.

I can't do what he is doing (to the same degree). I have no problem sliding by index up and down on a controller

 

[NumberThree]

I agree about handhelds, but those things are such a mess ergonomically anyway that there's really nothing that can be done about it. I'd love a handheld in the same format as Nvidia shield - I don't need the thing to fit in my pocket, I just want to be able to carry it around.

But any of the current/recent console controllers? They're good. The Wii U Gamepad is a bit awkward since I don't do the fingers on both triggers and shoulders thing, but the Pro Controller is great.

 

[xxracerxx]

I can't do what he is doing (to the same degree). I have no problem sliding by index up and down on a controller

Yeah he can do it really well...it is the general movement I am getting at, not those extremes.

 

[kitch9]

Now that I think about it, why don't they put the should buttons on the DS4 on the back of the two handles instead of on the top of the controller? It would feel more natural to press them. Maybe you'd accidentally press them too often when gripping the controller?

I'm sure that's already been tried and dismissed.

 

[knightfolk]

If this controller type were ideal, why do professional gamers buy refit controllers with extra buttons relocated to the grip area, like SCUF?

I have a scuff, and the back buttons are not mapped to replace the shoulder buttons, they are there to replace the face buttons so there is no need to take your hand off of the analog sticks. The bumpers still get a lot off use.

 

[martinstraka8282]

I like to think my hands are quite normal looking

I'm with you on handhelds, I find the Vita extremely uncomfortable to use.

 

[ArkkAngel007]

I have, at least IMO, rather small hands for a guy and have never had issues in needing to cramp up my hands to press shoulder buttons. Hell, with the XBO controller I can actually naturally press both the shoulders and triggers at the same time.

Only controller that gave me possibly any issues, and this was as a kid I think, was the original controller for the Xbox. That was due to those shitty black and white buttons though, given that from what I remember there wasn't even shoulder buttons.

 

[genbatzu]

For an example of how OP uses his controller, just search Google for "old people playing video games".

@OP: you holding the controller like this:

?

a picture of you with the controller would help, i guess

 

[Lynd7]

Yeah, I don't get the issue either.

The only fingers you should be using are the thumb and index. I rest my fingers on the analog triggers usually and move it up to hit the bumper buttons when needed.

 

[mktrOOp]

Thi vita shoulder buttons are crap though.

 

[adamsapple]

Because triggers are awesome.

 

[Caronte]

You mover your index finger from trigger to shoulder buttons...you don't hover all fingers over all buttons.

Seriously, I'm surprised people still don't know how to use a controller.

 

[Leon Raycloud]

Ever since I went from my NES to SNES as a kid I never understood these buttons. They suck. They are not in a place where your hand naturally rests on a controller. To hit them you have to cramp up your entire hand and lose all back support.

And yet, controllers keep getting worse at this. These controllers with bumpers/shoulder buttons and triggers that use both to play? No.

Triggers alone are fine. I think the placement of the z button on the n64 controller is a good example of a back button where your finger naturally rests. Or something like the triggers of the dualshock.

If a game uses these stupid buttons, I will not use them unless absolutely necessary. The worst is on handheld consoles. Adding to the hilarity, sometimes handhelds have fucking sliders or switches for power or volume and stuff on the side of the system, right where your hands will need to be if you need to have access to the shoulder buttons.

So yeah, if you make controllers and are reading this how about you just do double triggers or something next time? Thanks.

how? why? is that even possible??

 

[akachan ningen]

If your hands are cramping up just by pushing a button then you're doing it wrong. Are you drinking any water?

 

[themidnightsun156]

we needed more buttons and our index fingers weren't doing shit for so many years so we utilized them, it was great

 

[Breakfast at Noon]

Has no one linked him those wierd things people put on the back of the xbox one pads for easy bumpers?

 

[scoobidoo112]

I love shoulder buttons! Loved em since the SNES!

 

[Breakfast at Noon]

http://eu.scufgaming.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/nav-scuf-one.png

I reckon you must have hands like the guy in scary movie though..

 

[MetalRain]

I think there could be more shoulder buttons and less face buttons. It's terrible when game uses both analog sticks and then prompts you to QTE with face buttons.

 

[Zakalwe]

They suck. They are not in a place where your hand naturally rests on a controller.

 

[encephalon]

My fingers naturally rest up there and I have tiny hands.

 

[gelf]

I have no problem with shoulder buttons but this thread makes me wish Sega's 6 face buttons became a standard as well.

 

[Akai__]

If anything, they should have added two more shoulder buttons for this gen...

We are at a point, where developers can't figure out control schemes anymore, because their games have to many abilities and inputs. Having to deal with "pressing this button does x, but holding this button does y" is terrible.

 

[Mexen]

More buttons = more gameplay mechs

The shoulder buttons are a great imo. I use my index fingers for the shoulder buttons and my middle fingers for the triggers. Gets the job done.

 

[BumRush]

Modern controllers hinder your...back support, OP? Huh?

 

[xevis]

I grew up with this:

Six buttons + correct placement + no shoulders = best controller.

Took me *ages* to "get" the SNES pad.

 

[Langdon Alger]

I've never had a problem with shoulder buttons until the Xbox One controller. I can't wrap my head around those things.

 

[he who dwells]

Wut ? I think you're alone on this one.
And double triggers? how the hell would that work or even look like?

 

[Baalzebup]

And I like both the shoulder buttons AND the triggers.

Clearly this disagreement calls for a showdown. Freely chosen peeling instruments at dawn, two days from now.

 

[EchoChamber]

Maybe your controllers aren't thick enough OP.

 

[KyleCross]

I reckon you must have hands like the guy in scary movie though..

I actually was thinking strongly about posting a pic of that, but thought it'd be seen as mean and didn't. But it is literally all I've been thinking about this entire thread.

 

[Zareka]

I'm sitting here with my DS3 and DS4 right now switching my finger between the shoulders and the bumpers and the positioning of the pad is rock solid. It doesn't curl or rotate or anything. Even on the extremely rare occasion I may have to use L1 and L2 at the same time I can, somewhat clumsily, move my middle fingers up on to the triggers without compromising my grip. Good thing that never happens, though.

Also, I lie in my bed all the time to play my handhelds and the shoulder buttons have never been a problem, except maybe the Vita for Killzone but once I got used to them they were fine. It's the sticks on that thing that are the problem. A grip definitely helps though.

I don't get how the bumpers are a problem for you OP.

 

[Shaanyboi]

Did OP lose his index fingers playing the knife game or something? This is ridiculous.

 

[Eirulan]

I love 'em...
Andy they are essential for actions you want to do without taking your thumbs away from the sticks.

 

[shiyrley]

My ipega (bluetooth controller for phones with a grip and stuff) has shoulder buttons on the back. (R2 and L2. R1 and L1 are in the usual place.)

...I don't think it's very comfortable :/ That being said, maybe it could have been done better.

 

[FaintDeftone]

They are literally buttons at your fingertips.

I laughed at this.

Yeah, I don't get the complaints. I'm 30 years old and I started out on an Atari 2600, and I have no issues using shoulder buttons or triggers...

 

[Geg]

I think I did sort of feel this way with the SNES controller, but most modern controllers are designed so that it's more comfortable to have your finger up on the top of the controller rather than behind it

 

[bomblord1]

OP I know you don't want to but we need pics to understand.

Also, don't hold a controller like this

Spoiler

 

[Finale Fireworker]

I stayed up until 2:30 AM after I had planned to be in bed at midnight waiting for some sort of payoff or explanation for this thread.

It wasn't worth it.

 

[Ithil]

I don't know how you hold a modern controller but it sounds weird.