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[The Antitype]

I'm not even going to read this, cause a) I'm a fan of asymmetric maps for modes like 1-flag, and b) I think Valhalla is the best box canyon variant in the series.

I know their results are only going to bug me.

My top 5 would be:

1) Zanzibar
2) Valhalla
3) Sanctuary
4) High Ground
5) MidShip

 

[Captainbojanglesiii]

#80 - Sword Base

NO

 

[Pudge]

I just went through it again and the only H2 maps represented so far outside of the PC maps are the two H1 remakes from the DLC, Backwash, and Gemini. IGN has their nostalgia goggles on for that game.

 

[ebullientprism]

The only Reach map that came from campaign was Boneyard. Every other multiplayer map in Reach was made for multiplayer first.

All the MP maps were ripped from campaing. You could argue that those spaces were designed with MP in mind but they all turned out be utter garbage for most gametypes.

 

[JawzPause]

Has to be Valhalla for #1, possibly one of the best maps of all time IMO.

 

[The Antitype]

All the MP maps were ripped from campaing. You could argue that those spaces were designed with MP in mind but that would be a terrible argument since almost all Reach maps were terrible for most gametypes.

No, he's right.

They created the MP maps first, then stuck them into the campaign.

Reach didn't have great maps until the DLC hit. Some of those were quite good. The only good ones to ship with the game though were Powerhouse and Countdown.

 

[Caveman]

Avalanche will always be my #1

 

[XANDER CAGE]

Boarding Action is criminally low. That's THE Xbox LAN map along with Sidewinder and Blood Gulch.

 

[The Antitype]

Boarding Action is criminally low. That's THE Xbox LAN map along with Sidewinder and Blood Gulch.

Really?

I swear the only 3 maps the huge group of people I played with could stand were Sidewinder, Blood Gulch and Hang'em High. The rest of them felt like what they were in reality - thrown together on a rushed schedule to get the game out the door.

 

[hurzelein]

No, he's right.

They created the MP maps first, then stuck them into the campaign.

Also, some (not all!) of the Forge Maps in Reach were great. #63 The Cage for example would be in my Top 10. Swordbase #80 is also a joke. It had some weak areas, but overall it should have been top 30 the least. Pretty iconic too. I mostly had the feeling that the jetpack guys where easy targets on sword base , I don't know what the IGN editors were talking about jetpack dependency.

 

[Future PhaZe]

It's really only good for Slayer. Being a successor to Lockout is fine, but Lockout was at least great at things like Slayer and King of the Hill, even 1-flag was decent. Guardian was awful for objectives.

odd ball on guardian

fucking kill me now

 

[DeadlyParasite]

Standoff at 61? U wot m8?

That map was great for objective big team, it was like a miniature coagulation.

 

[Shpeshal Nick]

If this was the US site with Ryan doing it, Lockout would be number 1. Easily.

UK team? No idea.

 

[ebullientprism]

No, he's right.

They created the MP maps first, then stuck them into the campaign.

Reach didn't have great maps until the DLC hit. Some of those were quite good. The only good ones to ship with the game though were Powerhouse and Countdown.

I honestly have a hard time believing that. There is no way they didnt know that almost every single one of those spaces would be terrible for MP.

Most likely they just ripped some spaces out of the campaign that could work in MP and pretended that those places were designed with MP in mind. There is no way any competent MP developer (let alone one that shipped Halo 1, 2 and 3) would put out the garbage that Reach had thinking it was good MP map design.

 

[jem0208]

Also, some (not all!) of the Forge Maps in Reach were great. #63 The Cage for example would be in my Top 10. Swordbase #80 is also a joke. It had some weak areas, but overall it should have been top 30 the least. Pretty iconic too. I mostly had the feeling that the jetpack guys where easy targets on sword base , I don't know what the IGN editors were talking about jetpack dependency.

The Cage... top ten?


I.... I can't.

 

[backflip10019]

Top 5 (no order)

The Pit
Lockout
Narrows
Midship/Heretic
Construct

You are goddamned right.

 

[Korosenai]

The cage is easily the worst map ever, not sure how it isn't #110.

 

[DopeyFish]

Lockout and midship are likely to be the best maps simply because the sign of a great map is all parts of the map being used to it's fullest often... third choice because of this would probably be zanzibar... very little dead area (mainly on beach) which is pretty damn impressive for a BTB map

Blood gulch has that one cavern which would never be used except for the powerups

Guardian has that messy tree area and the shotgun room/power drain room...

Valhalla has those cliff areas

I'm trying to think of other maps that fit that criteria to be 4/5

Probably the pit (even with the rarely used corners) and sanctuary.

 

[Mdot]

Some of my faves in no particular order:

Lockout
Prisoner
Hang Em High
Zanzibar
Ascension
Midship
Ivory Tower
Coag
The Pit
Guardian
Narrows

 

[J@hranimo]

Just caught wind of this list they're creating

I'm not even the hugest Halo fan (Didn't get into Halo into late Halo 2 multiplayer/Halo 3/kinda like Halo 4/etc.) but I already know some places where they fucked up lol.

I'll still read it for entertainment though.

 

[Euron]

Avalanche will always be my #1

Avalanche is absolutely the king of Big Team and probably my personal favorite map in the series. If I had to rank my ten favorites:

1) Avalanche
2) Lockout
3) Beaver Creek
4) Guardian
5) Blood Gulch
6) Zanzibar
7) Sandtrap
8) Waterworks
9) Valhalla
10) The Pit

Before I get torn apart, I'm definitely forgetting some.

 

[DopeyFish]

Avalanche is absolutely the king of Big Team and probably my personal favorite map in the series. If I had to rank my ten favorites:

1) Avalanche
2) Lockout
3) Beaver Creek
4) Guardian
5) Blood Gulch
6) Zanzibar
7) Sandtrap
8) Waterworks
9) Valhalla
10) The Pit

Before I get torn apart, I'm definitely forgetting some.

replace sandtrap with headlong kthx

 

[Breakfast at Noon]

Boarding action that low down, fuck this list.

 

[The Antitype]

I honestly have a hard time believing that. There is no way they didnt know that almost every single one of those spaces would be terrible for MP.

Most likely they just ripped some spaces out of the campaign that could work in MP and pretended that those places were designed with MP in mind. There is no way any competent MP developer (let alone one that shipped Halo 1, 2 and 3) would put out the garbage that Reach had thinking it was good MP map design.

It's what they openly claimed from the beginning. They might be lying, but to what purpose?

 

[The Antitype]

The Cage... top ten?


I.... I can't.

Different strokes man.

I didn't hate or love the cage. It falls right into that 'meh' category for me, where I barely remembered it existed.

But, I mean I have controversial opinions about Halo maps too. For example:

*ahem*

The vast majority of the maps in Halo:CE were shit, and people's opinions of them are colored by nostalgia and their own personal investment in the myth that Halo:CE was perfect. 3 of those maps were good, one of which was improved mightily in almost every version of Halo that followed.

See? We've all got opinions that others out there would read and say 'you're nuts!'

 

[FyreWulff]

All the MP maps were ripped from campaing. You could argue that those spaces were designed with MP in mind but they all turned out be utter garbage for most gametypes.

No. They were made as MP maps first. In their entirety. Then they were integrated into campaign afterwards.

One of the main reasons was so that MP maps would be at the graphical level of campaign. That's why they were there, so that the art team could keep them at parity.

Reflection - used by dmiller to fill out his Alexandria level. Remake of Ivory Tower from Halo 2. A remake of Crater from ODST was also used as space in that level.

Countdown - you barely walked through this in campaign. It was used more like a skybox than playable space.

Zealot - the first part of the ship you enter in LNoS. You spend all of a minute in there.

Boardwalk - there isn't even gameplay on this space in campaign. It's just used as the intro space.

Powerhouse - you can skip it in 5 seconds, but it's separated by a canyon on one side and a gate on the other. It didn't have to integrate with the rest of the mission at all.

Spire - used as the last segment of Tip of the Spear. Barely any encounters in it.

Sword Base - used as the space between the last two major encounters of ONI.


Boneyard has the most gameplay/encounters on it, which makes sense considering that it was campaign first. It replaced an original MP map that had to be cut late in development.

 

[BloodMoney]

I'm surprised McCaffrey didn't rank them all #1.

 

[FyreWulff]

Also, my issue with Reach is almost all of the non-Forge maps were asymmetric at ship. Most of the symmetrical maps came as DLC, or had to be forged, so there wasn't much variety outside of 1-sided gametypes available.

Symmetrical maps work well for both 2-sided and 1-sided. 1-sided maps are only good at one-sided gametypes.

Either way, it's a bit silly to try to rank maps cross-game in the first place due to the differences between each Halo..

 

[EvB]

Mine

Avalanche
Construct
Relic
Turf
Ivory Tower
lockout
Terminal

 

[The Antitype]

Mine

Avalanche
Construct
Relic
Turf
Ivory Tower
lockout
Terminal

I like the Halo 2 DLC representation in this list.

I hate Construct though. A lot.

 

[Leyasu]

The only Reach map that came from campaign was Boneyard. Every other multiplayer map in Reach was made for multiplayer first.

Are you seriously trying to say that bungie built certain levels in the campaign around some shitty multiplayer maps? Or dont you think that it would have been a lot easier and simpler to rip assets from the single player and just use them for the multi?

They said themselves in the vidoc that that is what they did!!

Youtube is not working for me, otherwise I would find it..

 

[Peterpan]

I do not approve of how low a lot of these reach maps are. Although, I think I am in the minority when I say that Reach was my favorite multiplayer.

Did you like Halo 4 multiplayer too? Real question.

 

[Leyasu]

No, he's right.

They created the MP maps first, then stuck them into the campaign.

Reach didn't have great maps until the DLC hit. Some of those were quite good. The only good ones to ship with the game though were Powerhouse and Countdown.

The thing is he is not right. Bungie said so themselves. Find the vidoc on youtube. They were all ripped directly from the campaign. Are you trying to tell everybody that boardwalk was designed for multi?? No fucking way.

 

[EvB]

I like the Halo 2 DLC representation in this list.

I hate Construct though. A lot.

It was the first multiplexer map I played in Halo 3 retail, that was a special moment. It seems like only yesterday despite being 7 years ago...

 

[zma1013]

I thought Halo 2 had some good DLC maps as well.

 

[snoopeasystreet]

Sword Base was the only good original map in Reach.

 

[EvB]

I thought Halo 2 had some good DLC maps as well.

They were particularly good as everyone had them eventually

 

[The Antitype]

The thing is he is not right. Bungie said so themselves. Find the vidoc on youtube. They were all ripped directly from the campaign. Are you trying to tell everybody that boardwalk was designed for multi?? No fucking way.

I would LOVE to see the Vidoc where they say that.

By comparison, as far back as the beta:

I first played Headhunter on Swordbase, a four-story map with walkways connecting the opposing sides' spawn points and plenty of ledges from which to rain down fire onto exposed enemies. Bungie revealed that the map was first designed as a multiplayer arena, and then integrated into Reach's story Campaign. Swordbase features multiple Man Cannons to quickly move players to higher positions, but the Jet Pack ability can also be key to navigating the area.

http://www.joystiq.com/2010/04/21/halo-reach-multiplayer-beta-preview/

Still looking for more confirmation.


EDIT: FOUND. Scroll down page for Bungie's own words on the matter.

 

[MysteryM]

Both the ivory tower (halo 2) and the pit fall in the top five halo maps for me.

 

[zma1013]

They were particularly good as everyone had them eventually

I miss that model of pay now or wait a bit and get it free later. Sadly it never caught on and now multiplayer userbase is forever segmented in games.

 

[The Antitype]

The thing is he is not right. Bungie said so themselves. Find the vidoc on youtube. They were all ripped directly from the campaign. Are you trying to tell everybody that boardwalk was designed for multi?? No fucking way.

From BUNGIE's own weekly update:

Like we noted last week, the process was a bit different this time around. The multiplayer spaces were still constructed separately by a team of trained multiplayer experts, but as each arena came online they were subsequently passed over to the campaign team and injected into the game in progress as small portions of much larger campaign missions (which should explain the information coming out of X10 last week).

http://halo.bungie.net/news/content.aspx?cid=24866


The more you know.

 

[Leyasu]

I would LOVE to see the Vidoc where they say that.

By comparison, as far back as the beta:



http://www.joystiq.com/2010/04/21/halo-reach-multiplayer-beta-preview/

https://www.youtub.ecom/watch?v=ZUv98eWVnL0

Hmm at roughly 4.00mins he says that they put the multiplayer maps into the campaign. So he doesn't actually say it, but I cant honestly see it being the other way around! For comparison, just look at the turd maps in destiny. Most of them seem to be from the campaign as well.

Edit: Come on, they can say what they want. After playing them abortions and destinys, do you think that is true? Do any maps in reach feel like maps from the previous halos? Or they were designed with a specific gametype or purpose??

 

[The Antitype]

Edit: Come on, they can say what they want. After playing them abortions and destinys, do you think that is true? Do any maps in reach feel like maps from the previous halos? Or they were designed with a specific gametype or purpose??

What possible benefit does Bungie have for saying this before or at the time the beta launches, before anybody even knows how good or bad the maps in the final game really are? It's not as though they were covering their ass for anything, at the point they explained the process, there was no issue. Fans were looking forward to the game, they didn't know that the majority of the maps that shipped with the game weren't great.

Like we noted last week, the process was a bit different this time around. The multiplayer spaces were still constructed separately by a team of trained multiplayer experts, but as each arena came online they were subsequently passed over to the campaign team and injected into the game in progress as small portions of much larger campaign missions (which should explain the information coming out of X10 last week).

http://halo.bungie.net/news/content.aspx?cid=24866

They're not great maps. It happens. It wasn't because they came from single-player, it was because they were designed with the thinking that the armor abilities would mitigate traditional map control strategies. And in some cases, they were right. In others, armor abilities only exacerbated the problems. They learned, and each round of DLC had better and better maps that worked well with armor abilities.

 

[Leyasu]

What possible benefit does Bungie have for saying this before or at the time the beta launches, before anybody even knows how good or bad the maps really are?



http://halo.bungie.net/news/content.aspx?cid=24866

lol You forgot to post the whole of that segment where he has to write this because of certain "rumours"..

I'm sorry, but I dont buy it! If the maps were previous halo quality, then it would be different. But seeing as they are fucking terrible....

 

[Cert.in.Death]

1) Coagulation (it'll be a Blood Gulch variant)
2) Hang Em High
3) Ascension
4) Zanzibar
5) Midship

 

[The Antitype]

lol You forgot to post the whole of that segment where he has to write this because of certain "rumours"..

I'm sorry, but I dont buy it! If the maps were previous halo quality, then it would be different. But seeing as they are fucking terrible....

I just searched the weekly update I quoted and the word rumors didn't even come up. Can you quote the section you're talking about?

EDIT: Oh, you're talking about the 'unfounded claims' part.

People left the company. The guy who had a large hand in designing the maps and multiplayer in Halo 2 left the company to create Certain Affinity. Other people left for other pursuits.

And you bring up Destiny - none of the architecture in the maps in Destiny exist in the 'single-player' component of the game, as far as I know. They were all created from scratch too, with motiefs that echo the areas in the campaign.

Those maps aren't great either.

Maybe Bungie just isn't as good at making multiplayer maps as they once were.

OR

Maybe the increasing number of gameplay considerations - whether it's armor abilities in Reach, or the long-leaping and customizable loadouts of Destiny - is proving more difficult for them to design around than the relatively simple, fixed number of mechanics in Halo multiplayer.

They didn't magically lose their talent. People left and the considerations changed. That's it.

 

[GhaleonEB]

https://www.youtub.ecom/watch?v=ZUv98eWVnL0

Hmm at roughly 4.00mins he says that they put the multiplayer maps into the campaign. So he doesn't actually say it, but I cant honestly see it being the other way around! For comparison, just look at the turd maps in destiny. Most of them seem to be from the campaign as well.

Edit: Come on, they can say what they want. After playing them abortions and destinys, do you think that is true? Do any maps in reach feel like maps from the previous halos? Or they were designed with a specific gametype or purpose??

They were developed as MP first and added to campaign, with the exception of Boneyard. This has been confirmed many times over by Bungie and from others who would know (Fyre is one of them, as am I). Fyre walked through how apparent it is even if you want to entertain conspiracy theories to the contrary; they were integrated into campaign into largely throwaway spaces. You are simply wrong on this one.

 

[L4DANathan]

Blood Gulch or Valhalla for #1

Yeah, Blood Gulch is getting #1. It doesn't even matter why or how many people disagree, they'll pander to the nostalgia.

 

[blamite]

Heretic at 78? Fuck off.

Also, insert cragmire.joke here

 

[SicSemperTyrannis]

Top Ten (no order):

Burial Mounds
Colossus
Sanctuary
Hang em High
Battle Creek
Haven
Guardian
Lockout
Adrift
Skyline

I am still super miffed that Burial Mounds or Colossus didn't get remade. Of all the H2 maps to get touched up they chose the same maps that have been done in at least one other Halo release, that is far from fan service in my mind. I am showing my lack of complete hatred for H4 with this list also, it ended up having some great maps for all of its other well discussed failings as a core Halo MP experience. Then the lack of HCE love is due to the large focus on BTB which has never been my forte. H3 in comparison to H2 (which is my personal favorite Halo MP) had forgettable maps overall.

TMCC cannot come soon enough for me though. I've put in so much time in the franchise, this will be the greatest release for a long while I surmise.