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[pixlexic]

Isnt the game suppose to look cartoonish?

 

[John Harker]

Are you legally allowed to complain about whatever you want? Sure, of course.

Is it "reasonable"? Nope, not in the slightest.
Rock textures does not devalue the experience of a product, nor is in "reasonable" to try and convince others it does considering the amount of resources and manpower it takes to bring you that experience.

Also since no on forces you to buy it or to buy into the product At full $60 price, the more "reasonable" option would be to simply wait for the final product, judge it for yourself, and buy into the offering at a price level that you find fair value for... If it's the product as-is, $60 up front is reasonable. If for some reason you feel that those rock textures causes this experience to be devalued I don't know, $30, then wait till it's at that price or used or a rental and buy into it then. That's fair, no?

 

[Yatōkiri_Kilgharrah]

Can they even use the system memory for texture streaming? And no, the GPU in the Wii U is not "rocking".
But it is too early to judge, most definitely.

Please Tell me this isnt a serious question.

You should know by now how the system is designed by now. How it handles memory, the way the GPU interacts with its CPU and the embedded EDRAM. How fast it can handle data loading and how to take advantage of that by now. (Particularly if, you know, you've worked on the system. Have you?)

 

[BeatResetsTheWorld]

I remember a dude on some board getting shit on for saying the trees in skyward sword looked bad when it was released. Most people said that they would fix it and he was being unreasonable and when the game was released they still look terrible.

Yes, because textures = full models. How about you post actual recent examples, like the bump in texture quality in Pikmin 3 from early demos to release?

 

[M1ch04c4n0]

Complain about anything before playing the game is unreasonable.

Even more complaining about an obviously ALPHA version of the game.

 

[Yatōkiri_Kilgharrah]

My concern is that Nintendo maybe bit off more than they can chew with them chasing the whole open-world thing. No one will be impressed by a huge but largely uninteresting open-world which on top is also compromised visually due to technical constraints.

I know I would've preferred a more dense approach to world-design for the new Zelda game. In general I don't really care for RPGs that first and foremost define themselves through their big world (everything Bethesda, for example). Almost always that approach comes at the cost of other aspects; see the latest Dragon Age, for example, which many old fans find directionless and too light as far as narrative goes. After so many uninteresting sandboxes that got released in the last decade, I find it weird that people still fall for "huge world = best game" promises.

Dude, most of the 2D Zelda games are open world.

Monolith Soft also works on Zelda games and they have experience with Xenoblade and Xenoblade X dude. Its needless worry. Nintendo's not a company run by a bunch of amateurs. These are some of the most talented developers in the industry.

No, the only time it will be unreasonable is expecting PS4/Xbox One quality graphics out of Wii U and criticizing games for that. But calling out the usual Nintendo smoke and mirrors which takes the attention away from glaring deficits is not unreasonable.

After seeing games like Sunset, Infamous, The Witcher 3, GTA V next gen, it's not possible for Nintendo to match that kind of visual fidelity.

Shin'en seems to be challenging that thought with Fast Racing Neo

People are gonna be surprised when the game dosn't look like this (already does).

The one here that's going to be surprised is you. When the gameplay looks exactly like that trailer footage. As it was gameplay footage of a completed area in the game.

 

[Yatōkiri_Kilgharrah]

I dont think this is something they will fix, the game is very demanding, "open world", the only game similar in scope on wii u is Xenoblade
You really think X looks better? i think its too early to say, without a proper trailer, but this easily could be a hardware limitation.

Nothing in the video really needs to be "fixed" Just unfinished parts of the game need to be finished. Is there unfinished stuff I n the video? I dunno( they trailer was cut strangely to save time and to keep us from seeing interesting things like the tower). Most of the footage is chopped together and cut strangely (to save time I think along with hiding interesting things like the tower they showed). People keep pointing to things in the distance of a small screen blow up to make their points when we cant see shit.

As for limitations

Limitations... if you want to talk about limitations you need to talk about whats limiting what. The Wii U can load a shitload of textures without pop in. This is due to the Wii U's EDRAM and efficient hardware design given how its GPU and CPU work together. You can do alot with its memory set up. The Wii U's problem is it doesnt have as much raw power as the PS4 and X1 but effectively using the power it does have is a component of the systems design. The better you are at handling the systems memory pipeline the more the system can push. The textures themselves are pretty nice but they're not super taxing. It has a bunch of nice effects going on and its supposedly 1080p going by the official screens and uploads as well. Hence the game being 30fps. The game is an example of marrying tech to an artistic vision to create something we've yet to see in a game before. The game is flipping beautiful and inspired by Zelda 1 and Zelda II( If the map and mountain design is any indication)(

 

[Tomohawk]

Yes, because textures = full models. How about you post actual recent examples, like the bump in texture quality in Pikmin 3 from early demos to release?

Well my point was to say that people complaining could turn out to be right and pikmin 3 ground textures don't look to great in a lot of places. Anyways I dont see what there is to gain from squashing complaints when it could create better discussion.

 

[Redrop]

Why would you even shoot a PR video like that with off-screen footage?

It boggles the mind.

I too really question that decision. :/

 

[Pankratous]

First, its the Wii U, 1 GB of RAM is not much for everything in the game.

then, i dont know why you came to that conclusion after low quality off screen footage. :/
i thought the rock textures were the best shown,wait for a trailer, at least.

Jesus 1GB? My phone has double that.

 

[pinkurocket]

This is Wind Waker level of criticism all over again.

 

[Yatōkiri_Kilgharrah]

I too really question that decision. :/

To seem casual and normal and show us how the game controls?

clearly it was a bad Idea. But I liked it. IIt felt real.

 

[Yatōkiri_Kilgharrah]

Jesus 1GB? My phone has double that.

A game like skyrim ran on 256mbs of ram. and didnt they drop the OS allocation down to 512 mbs?

 

[John Harker]

I too really question that decision. :/

If you have high quality assets, show them.
If you don't have high quality assets, make them.

Deadlines apply to this equation as the catalyst.

Marketing doesn't always get what they need from Studio, so you have to be nimble.

Need to announce at an event but don't have HQ assets from studio in time? You make a CG video.

Have and event coming up, and have great assets from the studio? AND you have high-level talent available? Just show the build you have.

The game is obviously at a point they feel is far enough where they can show the assets. They want you to have confidence the game exists and it will make 2015, they want to platform to feel alive and relevent. Obviously Geoff's event wasn't a schedule pulse point, and they weren't going to send the talent out for it when NoA was there to step in, so pre record the studio heads playing it. It's actually kind of awesome.

Pretty cool and basic stuff.
Look at how they first enveiled the wii u Zelda... No assets, just render something for e3 with target gameplay footage based on old assets (original video). Then last e3, show specific trailer made using current assets in-engine, but since this was a planned pulse point it's more of a marketing asset. The Game Awards come as an off-comm opportunity during the holidays? Show the game in current build straight up, Nintendo's very own Big Wig Influencers doing a Let's Play. Lucky us, and it looks great!

 

[Supermanisdead]

Nope. It's not unreasonable to discuss your grievances with a product that a company has willingly released for discussion.

 

[ozfunghi]

On what is this based, OP? On the tiny off-screen footage?

E3 trailer looked fine.

 

[Dr. Black Jack]

It was small, off-screen footage of a game that's not really close to being done, despite the promised 2015 release date

So uh... yes

boom.gif

 

[zeldablue]

Ground looks bad. The grass looks awesome though.

 

[Ryouji Gunblade]

Strangely-proportioned characters are way worse than a texture or two.

 

[Astral Dog]

A game like skyrim ran on 256mbs of ram. and didnt they drop the OS allocation down to 512 mbs?

Thats true, Wii U has more than double 360 for games, plus Edram, its enough for what it does, but no, they didnt drop the OS memory, Zelda U is going to be 720p as its pushing the system too.

 

[Amir0x]

Are you legally allowed to complain about whatever you want? Sure, of course.

Is it "reasonable"? Nope, not in the slightest.
Rock textures does not devalue the experience of a product, nor is in "reasonable" to try and convince others it does considering the amount of resources and manpower it takes to bring you that experience.

Also since no on forces you to buy it or to buy into the product At full $60 price, the more "reasonable" option would be to simply wait for the final product, judge it for yourself, and buy into the offering at a price level that you find fair value for... If it's the product as-is, $60 up front is reasonable. If for some reason you feel that those rock textures causes this experience to be devalued I don't know, $30, then wait till it's at that price or used or a rental and buy into it then. That's fair, no?

It is absolutely reasonable and you should probably stop trying to apply your subjective values for what is and is not important in games to gamers en masse. Some people absolutely value the visual presentation games have - in fact, it's one of the most important element of VIDEO games - and do care about the minutiae of that presentation. It can be the difference between some people's ability to adequately be transported to this fantasy world, and others who keep it at arm's length. Or, in your case, it might not matter at all. And that too is perfectly OK.

What isn't reasonable is to try to imply that because there is a problem with texture work now that it will still be present in the final game. What isn't responsible is to suggest we know to what extent the texture issues are throughout the entire game, since we only see a laughably tiny snippet.

But as the developers surely know, as you surely know, you don't put up videos of a game - work-in-progress or not - if you don't want people evaluating it as-is. Everyone who is not insane understands that these criticisms are made with the implicit acknowledgement that these problems might not exist at all when the final product comes around.

But that's why people complain now. It does no good to anybody to complain after the product is out and nothing can be done about it, does it? And before you say there's no evidence that will do anything either: a.) we've had plenty of cases where outcry has changed things in games for the better prior and after release and b.) that doesn't change the merit of the complaints itself.

This nonsense has genuinely got to stop though with the attempt to tone police people into not complaining. If you release a video of your game for public consumption, everyone understands that work is going to be critiqued. And it should. Do you think Nintendo showed this snippet of gameplay because they're a charity? No, they hope it is added to a list of things that convince people to buy the game. In this light, it's absolutely clear people are critiquing the game no matter what, and nobody mentions the thousand trillion people saying "BUYING IT DAY ONE" off of shit like this. Because they don't mind hearing positivity, it goes into their worldview.

But "positive" criticism is not the only "reasonable" criticism allowed prior to a game's release. Your narrow view on what is or is not important in games or what does devalue a product is also not the only reasonable position, same as mine.

 

[Yatōkiri_Kilgharrah]

It is absolutely reasonable and you should probably stop trying to apply your subjective values for what is and is not important in games to gamers en masse. Some people absolutely value the visual presentation games have - in fact, it's one of the most important element of VIDEO games - and do care about the minutiae of that presentation. It can be the difference between some people's ability to adequately be transported to this fantasy world, and others who keep it at arm's length. Or, in your case, it might not matter at all. And that too is perfectly OK.

What isn't reasonable is to try to imply that because there is a problem with texture work now that it will still be present in the final game. What isn't responsible is to suggest we know to what extent the texture issues are throughout the entire game, since we only see a laughably tiny snippet.

But as the developers surely know, as you surely know, you don't put up videos of a game - work-in-progress or not - if you don't want people evaluating it as-is. Everyone who is not insane understands that these criticisms are made with the implicit acknowledgement that these problems might not exist at all when the final product comes around.

But that's why people complain now. It does no good to anybody to complain after the product is out and nothing can be done about it, does it? And before you say there's no evidence that will do anything either: a.) we've had plenty of cases where outcry has changed things in games for the better prior and after release and b.) that doesn't change the merit of the complaints itself.

This nonsense has genuinely got to stop though with the attempt to tone police people into not complaining. If you release a video of your game for public consumption, everyone understands that work is going to be critiqued. And it should. Do you think Nintendo showed this snippet of gameplay because they're a charity? No, they hope it is added to a list of things that convince people to buy the game. In this light, it's absolutely clear people are critiquing the game no matter what, and nobody mentions the thousand trillion people saying "BUYING IT DAY ONE" off of shit like this. Because they don't mind hearing positivity, it goes into their worldview.

But "positive" criticism is not the only "reasonable" criticism allowed prior to a game's release. Your narrow view on what is or is not important in games or what does devalue a product is also not the only reasonable position, same as mine.

People who think like this should learn japanese so they can complain to nintendo in japanese so they understand.

 

[Amir0x]

People who think like this should learn japanese so they can complain to nintendo in japanese so they understand.

People from Nintendo have been on this forum on this past, and still are. And understand English perfectly fine.

Interaction with members of the industry is part of the appeal of these forums.

 

[Yatōkiri_Kilgharrah]

Ground looks bad. The grass looks awesome though.

Ground looks blurry. Its the video Im thinking.

People from Nintendo have been on this forum on this past, and still are. And understand English perfectly fine.

Interaction with members of the industry is part of the appeal of these forums.

It takes longer for the dev team to get the message. If I have a complaint I send them an email or I complain on tehir twitter in japanese.

 

[orient]

My first thought watching the video was "looks miles off", which is clearly why they went with the off-screen presentation approach instead of a normal gameplay video. It's totally unreasonable to complain about the graphical quality until the game's closer to completion. Never stops anyone, though!

 

[Instro]

It's not unreasonable, but it seems a bit pointless. The game is far from done, and I imagine the game was shown off screen for visual quality reasons. We know what the WiiU is capable of, and what it isn't capable of, visual quality will be as good or better than whatever else is available on the platform. Unlocking more of the RAM would be nice.

 

[Amir0x]

It's not unreasonable, but it seems a bit pointless. The game is far from done, and I imagine the game was shown off screen for visual quality reasons. We know what the WiiU is capable of, and what it isn't capable of, visual quality will be as good or better than whatever else is available on the platform. Unlocking more of the RAM would be nice.

how much of Wii U's RAM is reserved anyway? never knew that

 

[Alex_Mexico]

It was small, off-screen footage of a game that's not really close to being done, despite the promised 2015 release date

So uh... yes

/thread

 

[Yatōkiri_Kilgharrah]

My first thought watching the video was "looks miles off", which is clearly why they went with the off-screen presentation approach instead of a normal gameplay video. It's totally unreasonable to complain about the graphical quality until the game's closer to completion. Never stops anyone, though!

That makes no sense as it would look better through direct feed

how much of Wii U's RAM is reserved anyway? never knew that

1 gigabyte

 

[Amir0x]

1 gigabyte

well with how slow the systems OS used to run at launch, maybe it's best if we don't give them any ideas about cutting down RAM reserves

 

[Mohonky]

Isnt the game suppose to look cartoonish?

Yeh it has that art style about it, reminds me of something between Wind Waker and Skyward Sword.

The ground and rock textures and general world textures I expect are going to be fairly muddy in a sort of water coloured kind of way, I wouldnt expect pin sharp textures in this games art style.

If they tried for say, Twilight Princess in this style it would look loke some thing of a mess, using lower res textures for the game world wont necessarily break with the art style they seem to be using.

 

[Amir0x]

Yeh it has that art style about it, reminds me of something between Wind Waker and Skyward Sword.

I always thought Skyward Sword was something between Twilight Princess and Wind Waker, so it is a funny thought that this game is something between Skyward Sword and Wind Waker. Getting closer to the WW target again!

come on Nintendo just bring back the awesome Wind Waker style *swoon*

 

[Drkirby]

how much of Wii U's RAM is reserved anyway? never knew that

Last I heard it was 1GB Reserved, but that could have changed at some point.

 

[Instro]

how much of Wii U's RAM is reserved anyway? never knew that

Well it was 1GB at launch, I don't believe that has changed since. I'm sure there's a dev around GAF who would know. Could be stuck at that amount due to the gamepad streaming, etc.

 

[orient]

That makes no sense as it would look better through direct feed

Hmm? Shooting off-screen and a good few feet away from the video is clearly a way to hide what essentially looks like unfinished textures/geometry, while still giving people a taste of how the game's progressing. If they thought the game was ready to show properly, they would have released direct footage.

 

[TheRedSnifit]

And then people act all confused when companies refuse to show off anything but CG in early trailers.

 

[Yatōkiri_Kilgharrah]

Hmm? Shooting off-screen and a good few feet away from the video is clearly a way to hide what essentially looks like unfinished textures/geometry, while still giving people a taste of how the game's progressing. If they thought the game was ready to show properly, they would have released direct footage.

No I dont think that's what they were doing. Watch the Video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMXD5DxbXog

Something unfinished would still look better than it zoomed in 20x over with a blue screen iflter over it. Direct feed always looks better. Not hiding much off screen.

If they wanted to hide stuff they'd play the game via OFF TV as the lower resolution screen super samples the image. Unless the game doesnt have off tv

 

[LUFTRAUSER]

I don't play Nintendo games for the latest in graphical fidelity, so I'd say that it is. Besides, the game isn't even out yet; this is just a tech demo, basically.

So don't worry! The final version will probably be worse.

 

[orient]

Something unfinished would still look better than it zoomed in 20x over with a blue screen iflter over it. Direct feed always looks better. Not hiding much off screen.

That's because zooming into a video inside a video isn't an accurate representation of anything. Nintendo don't care if people create dodgy screen caps and start complaining about graphics. They care about the actual quality of the game, which clearly isn't ready to show properly yet.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

I think it's fair to want better ground textures. It's also a year away so maybe it'll get better.

 

[Seik]

It is unreasonable, but hey you have the right to say whatever you want.

The game is still early in development, it will get polished.

 

[Yatōkiri_Kilgharrah]

That's because zooming into a video inside a video isn't an accurate representation of anything. Nintendo don't care if people create dodgy screen caps and start complaining about graphics. They care about the actual quality of the game, which clearly isn't ready to show properly yet.

The game de doesnt even look at that unfinished, the only part that looks off is the opening screen with link standing on a mountain ( textures arent as good there) and the densely wooded area doesnt have a shit ton of trees. Everything else looked fine. Unless you're talking about graphical effects. You can barely see anything with all the bloom anyway

 

[tkscz]

Not unreasonable, no. I noticed it, however I'm being optimistic and hoping that by the finished product (at most by E3 next year) the textures on the walls will be fixed.

 

[Tookay]

Nope. It's not unreasonable to discuss your grievances with a product that a company has willingly released for discussion.

They didn't release a product; they released marketing of a product that featured offscreen footage in the corner of the screen.

I'm not sure making many conclusions about the graphical quality of the assets is reasonable from such material.

 

[Kataploom]

You guys have to be kidding me. You are freaking out over the texture quality in an upscaled image taken from a compressed YouTube video showing gameplay footage on an angled TV occupying roughly 20% of the video's area?

^this needs more attention.

 

[evilromero]

I would definitely wait for the remastered Zelda U to hit if you want better textures.

 

[Trago]

Nor really, it's your opinion. Aonuma has already said that the game looks better than it did at E3, so we should take his word for it until the game is released.

As for the gameplay footage, it's clearly unfinished and it's on a TV, not direct feed.

Also, what kind of expectations are we supposed to have for an open world game on the Wii U? As big as Xenoblade Chronicles X is, the game is not a looker.

So yeah, it's not unreasonable for you to complain about the textures, but I think you're expecting too much.

 

[zoukka]

It's an open world game on the Wii U. So no complaining about low rez textures here and there is not reasonable.

 

[Yatōkiri_Kilgharrah]

Nor really, it's your opinion. Aonuma has already said that the game looks better than it did at E3, so we should take his word for it until the game is released.

As for the gameplay footage, it's clearly unfinished and it's on a TV, not direct feed.

Also, what kind of expectations are we supposed to have for an open world game on the Wii U? As big as Xenoblade Chronicles X is, the game is not a looker.

So yeah, it's not unreasonable for you to complain about the textures, but I think you're expecting too much.

??? Have we been looking at the same game?

 

[Bugs Bunny]

I think it looks fine.