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Is Microsoft making two completely different Xbox branded products for next gen?
- Thread starter Nirolak
- Start date
Sounds good actually. The worst thing they could do is give it an Xbox name.
bigtroyjon
Member
Confirmation? We've gotten purely rumors and many of them don't even match up with each other.
I can see them doing this, but I'm not sure that calling the set-up Kinect media center device an Xbox is a good idea. Sure, the Xbox brand name is well known, but to release something called Xbox that wouldn't be able to play the games that people know as "Xbox games" seem like it'd be too confusing for the marketplace. Calling it something Kinect related seems like it'd work better, as that's really a quite different target audience than the traditional Xbox gaming customer.
opticalmace
Member
This actually sounds pretty reasonable.
Am I safe in assuming the "Xbox 3" is purported to have all the functionality of the set top box? (And more, of course.)
Am I safe in assuming the "Xbox 3" is purported to have all the functionality of the set top box? (And more, of course.)
bgassassin
Member
I read that, but that doesn't necessarily mean they couldn't reapply the name elsewhere since it's only a codename.
Plus MSNerd's rumor came out well before all this so the latter rumors are confirming what MSNerd already said.
Much of this has already been covered, but if I was going to do something like this.
XBOX-lite would not carry the XBOX name at all. It would be Kinect for television (KinecTV.) I would position it like an advanced Harmony remote that happens to come with many other services. A cheap version would be made available to upgrade legacy sets. I would license it to television manufacturers (closed spec) as a one stop OS/voice control solution. I would prey on the consumer electronic industry's paranoia that Apple is preparing to make a play.
Why?
I can provide a competitive product to manufacturers in desperate need of a solution that is outside of their expertise.
I can shoehorn my other products (Bing) into a massive new market.
I can do with a cheaper product what I originally wanted to do when I entered the market.
XBOX will remain as the gaming brand.
It's mind-bogglingly rare that two needs meet each other at such an opportune time.
Microsoft needs markets.
TVs need software.
XBOX-lite would not carry the XBOX name at all. It would be Kinect for television (KinecTV.) I would position it like an advanced Harmony remote that happens to come with many other services. A cheap version would be made available to upgrade legacy sets. I would license it to television manufacturers (closed spec) as a one stop OS/voice control solution. I would prey on the consumer electronic industry's paranoia that Apple is preparing to make a play.
Why?
I can provide a competitive product to manufacturers in desperate need of a solution that is outside of their expertise.
I can shoehorn my other products (Bing) into a massive new market.
I can do with a cheaper product what I originally wanted to do when I entered the market.
XBOX will remain as the gaming brand.
It's mind-bogglingly rare that two needs meet each other at such an opportune time.
Microsoft needs markets.
TVs need software.
I see it that way as well. From what I gathered/was told is that when Microsoft restructured Entertainment & Devices or whatever all development of such devices was lumped together at Microsoft Studios with their most popular brand(Xbox) attached.
So some TV-box they were working on with Kinect controls likely got rebranded into Xbox Loop, while the next-gen Xbox project got more staff because the Courier was cancelled and the workforce was added to the Next Gen Xbox group. Now I've heard rumblings that MS might seperate the Kinect brand from Xbox as their casual push. So it might be Kinect for TV and Kinect for Windows etc. instead of just Kinect for Xbox 360.
PlayGround Games, which is likely the latest new big partner for Microsoft Studios(ex-Bizarre, ex-Codemasters etc.) recently expanded in Guildford and added a whole bunch of temporary contract positions. So it seems like they need to finish something quick. With Rare searching specifically for people who know their way around DirectX 11 rendering(as opposed to the usual knowledge of Xbox 360/PS3) it seems like the next-gen wheels are turning at their various first party studios and Kinect Sports 3 might as well be a launch game.
The early rumors for the 2014/2013 release for the next Xbox all seem to originate from for example Lionhead aiming to launch Fable 4 around that time or the next version of the Unreal Engine arriving by that date. For launch games however I'd look at Ruffian, Bigpark/Rare(Sports), PlayGround Games, MGS Vancouver(they removed the mention of working on a Kinect FPS-title shortly after E3) and perhaps some third party partners. Crytek for example is also 'late' in announcing their next FPS project after Crysis 2 shipped.
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
I swear to god in like a day and a half IGN will steal this and put it on their own site in different words..mark my words!
My only issue with this would be the majority of the services offered are USA centric.
I've accepted this for the most part (it is generally not Microsoft's fault) but how can they possibly expect to sell a device that revolves around these services as it's main focus outside the US?
I've accepted this for the most part (it is generally not Microsoft's fault) but how can they possibly expect to sell a device that revolves around these services as it's main focus outside the US?
bgassassin
Member
They matched up pretty well to me. The OP even has the details laid out in a convenient package.
I would assume yes. For me it just seems weird they would gimp the other version so much. They should at least let it play Blu-Ray/DVD movies.
I expect Xbox Loop or Kinect for TV or whatever to launch in the US first anyway. Europe/Asia is a totally different ballgame with contracts and whatnot. This is also why this won't be MS's first next-gen push, it's not global.
bigtroyjon
Member
Companies aren't going to just move code names around to different projects, think about how silly that sounds.
Digital-Hero
Member
If true, that sounds similar to the PSX, the media device Sony released in the PS2 era. Can MS pull off what Sony failed to do? Trying to differentiate the two Xbox's would be difficult.
I've never heard about that wrist thing before. The Newton Motion Controller that Rare mostly worked on was real, but that was just intended as a much better Wii Remote on paper basically and scheduled to launch a year before Kinect but Kinect came along and kinda blew up that project. MS then flew the high-ranking Rare guys up to Redmond to see the wonderful mysterious Kinect after just cancelling Newton.
Now that I think of it... maybe Loop was intended for the cancelled Rare Music/Fitness games.
I completely agree. They absolutely have to redouble their international efforts. This is a rare opportunity to be the first to have the best voice recognition software across multiple languages. Their past efforts won't cut it if they want to sweet-talk hardware manufacturers.
It's likely that these were seperate projects up untill 2009 or so when MS brought everything together at Microsoft Studios. The ARM chip is basically 'Windows 8 on a chip' but it's not enough to power a nextgen console.
This is a very smart idea, especially if they make the two boxes look completely different to each other.
Microsoft can thank Apple for preparing customers for this sort of set up too.
I like Kinect though, so I'll probably buy both boxes, unless of course Kinect old and or new is compatible with the hardcore box.
Microsoft can thank Apple for preparing customers for this sort of set up too.
I like Kinect though, so I'll probably buy both boxes, unless of course Kinect old and or new is compatible with the hardcore box.
bgassassin
Member
[Nintex];33031761 said:
Yeah. Could be that MS intends to make the Xbox name their version of Apple's i___.
infinityBCRT
Member
Nirolak, I'd also add that MSNerd's MS 2012-2014 Roadmap was somewhat legitimized when MS announced the Kinect Commercial SDK.
davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
i think it makes sense, but they're probably more inter-related, as far as the "traditional" successor being more than the Xbox Kinect thing.
i'd probably think of it more like their "Wii-version" of the next Xbox. I'm not sure if that means they're going to release the traditional Xbox 3 with Kinect in it or not.
i'd probably think of it more like their "Wii-version" of the next Xbox. I'm not sure if that means they're going to release the traditional Xbox 3 with Kinect in it or not.
Being in Canada I have little hope. Our internet/media is pretty much controlled by a duoploy and our "regulators" are all former members.
Anything that could possible affect the huge profits of these companies is put through so much red tape that it never sees the light of day.
Netflix has been putting up a good fight though, unfortunately it seems to be losing the one in the US
The Albatross
Member
I'd imagine a refreshed X-Box 360 interface would gel better, re-releasing the 360 with a strong set top component to it, than running with two new videogame console based SKUs.
This is a great idea if they do the following:
Focus on Kinect and Windows 8 for the TV box.
Focus on Xbox and Live for the core gaming console.
If there ends up being too much cross platform compatibility between the two objects, or Xbox gets used on both set ups then customers are in for some confusion. Especially for software purchases.
Ideally the core gaming console will also include all the functionality of the TV box once a Kinect 2 is purchased for the system. Both will probably include Windows 8 functionality customized for being a media hub.
Focus on Kinect and Windows 8 for the TV box.
Focus on Xbox and Live for the core gaming console.
If there ends up being too much cross platform compatibility between the two objects, or Xbox gets used on both set ups then customers are in for some confusion. Especially for software purchases.
Ideally the core gaming console will also include all the functionality of the TV box once a Kinect 2 is purchased for the system. Both will probably include Windows 8 functionality customized for being a media hub.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
A high spec, high price console... aimed toward core gamers?
Not enough of them for it to work. Unless they are fine with keeping their current userbase at best?
Not enough of them for it to work. Unless they are fine with keeping their current userbase at best?
The reactions to the PSP Go and 3DS have shown that customer confusion can happen easily. However, I do think that MS can solve the possibly confusion that this could cause.
Call the set top box "Kinect" and the core-focused box "Xbox." A Kinect alone right now costs $150, right? $200 is not that big of a stretch for a successor of Kinect, and it will be seen as a decent price since a person would only have to pay $200 for it rather than the $300 required for an Xbox 360 that comes with Kinect.
In addition, this new Kinect could hook up to the new Xbox to take advantage of the combined power of both systems later in life when both are cheaper.
EDIT: I see others came to the same conclusion I did!
Call the set top box "Kinect" and the core-focused box "Xbox." A Kinect alone right now costs $150, right? $200 is not that big of a stretch for a successor of Kinect, and it will be seen as a decent price since a person would only have to pay $200 for it rather than the $300 required for an Xbox 360 that comes with Kinect.
In addition, this new Kinect could hook up to the new Xbox to take advantage of the combined power of both systems later in life when both are cheaper.
EDIT: I see others came to the same conclusion I did!
MrMephistoX
Member
Seems like an interesting strategy for the casual market anyway: a cheap set top Kinectbox would probably sell like gangbusters. It might be successful enough; however, to decentivize heavy investment in a traditional console later on the down the road. That said I can only see the strategy working if the two SKUS are released at later dates.
The first one is a sure bet for all that COD/HALO money. The second one is a gamble. Kinect hasn't shown it's full potential yet on Xbox 360 and there's more to it for sure(the Kinect celebration ad is pretty much what MS wants it to be) but there's a long way to go and it's risky.
Both ideas are interesting, but I don't really see the point/value of the new set top box console. The only plus seems to be that it can use the newer Kinect camera, which will probably require a faster interconnect than the Xbox 360 can provide. Aside from that, the 4GB 360 can provide all of the same functionality + play new and existing 360 titles for roughly the same price point. And the 360 will continue to compete nicely with the Wii when the price drops next year. Not to mention it'll be another sku for retailers to manage, etc.
In short, the Kinect 2 would have to be nothing short of a jaw dropping improvement over the current model and/or the price would have to be significantly less than $200 to make the set top box rumor vaguely believable.
And the juries still out on the high end model. I'm still in the Fall 2012 camp on that one, but I think we need to see a price drop happen on the 360 first.
In short, the Kinect 2 would have to be nothing short of a jaw dropping improvement over the current model and/or the price would have to be significantly less than $200 to make the set top box rumor vaguely believable.
And the juries still out on the high end model. I'm still in the Fall 2012 camp on that one, but I think we need to see a price drop happen on the 360 first.
outunderthestars
Banned
I really like this concept. Thanks for giving me food for thought OP. 
The media box concept makes alot of sense, as MS is trying to create a unified media ecosystem with Windows 8.
The media box concept makes alot of sense, as MS is trying to create a unified media ecosystem with Windows 8.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
Jeez you expect it to only sell in the 14-21 million unit range?[Nintex];33032066 said:
I thought I was being harsh limiting its sales to the 360 total.
bigtroyjon
Member
Freeza Under The Shower
Member
I think I literally read an article yesterday on hardware failures and the PSX and others were part of the list. Should Microsoft create a shizm in their own brand, they can pretty much toss the 'doesn't play games' version in a ditch somewhere and accept a substantial loss of sales on the only version that actually matters.
Afaik, this has never worked as a commercial product and I really don't see how this would now suddenly be logical or reasonable.
Afaik, this has never worked as a commercial product and I really don't see how this would now suddenly be logical or reasonable.
InaudibleWhispa
Member
I agree with the notion that if this is to happen, have separate names with the console only keeping the Xbox brand. Kinect TV and Xbox ___ works fine. Most casual gamers I know refer to Kinect as its own thing anyway, largely unaware of the need for a 360. This makes sense too; have a machine that has access to the 40+ content providers they have, which will naturally grow, plus access to the Windows 8 ARM app store which will be full of touch apps (Windows tablets, Windows Phone 8) easily converted to allow Kinect control and you've got a compelling device at a low price and a compelling ecosystem. Buy Angry Birds on your phone, play it on your TV, tablet and computer too. With cloud saves. It seems they're leaning this way too with titles like 'Kinect Sesame Street TV' and 'Kinect Nat Geo TV' launching next year, which essentially allows children to interact with TV episodes.
I've been using the new dashboard for a week or two, and believe me it is. If what you want is already selected, then sure, pressing a button is quicker. But most of the time it isn't. Say you want to access system preferences, with a controller you have to scroll through 7 pages to get to settings, press along once to get to preferences and then hit 'A'. With voice you just have to say 3 words, "Xbox Settings, Preferences". Once you start using voice for 90% of dashboard selections, you realise just how much quicker and easier it is. Add search into the equation and you have something vastly improved. Why scroll along to the apps page, open Netflix and search for a movie when you can just say "Xbox Bing Minority Report", "Play Minority Report".
I'm not sure how I feel about the idea of split SKUs in the console sector. People keep pointing to Apple, but mobile devices are a completely different ball game.
Besides the already stated issues of MS confusing customers, I feel that if MS releases a set-top Kinect-focused Xbox a year before the Xbox 3 comes out, then they can basically kiss whatever casual sales that padded their Xbox 360 numbers goodbye, because casuals will have no reason to upgrade to the Xbox 3. Those are potential customers lost, and it'll be a lot harder for them to make up those numbers against competition that will most likely be going the one-box-fits-all route.
And yeah, casuals don't buy a whole lot of games anyway, but this method completely shuts them out from even possibly buying console games. The aunt who would have bought the Xbox 3 for its multimedia features and instead opts for the cheaper, gimped Kinect-Box will now not be in the position to even randomly buy the next Halo game because her nephews are coming to stay for the weekend and she's seen that game advertised everywhere.
Basically, it's a strategy that only possibly benefits Microsoft. I don't see devs being on-board with splitting the user base.
I still think it's in MS best interest to stick to a single, slick console that does it all and actually market it as such. As someone said earlier, advertise its Netflix and Windows 8 functionality just as much as the next Halo/Gears. And position the Xbox 360 as the low-cost stop on the road to a full upgrade.
Sure, for some that means MS will most likely not be releasing a SuperBox console with a quad-core GPU and Samaritan graphics for its UI or whatever crap, but oh well. The only company dumb enough to possibly go that route again is Sony.
Besides the already stated issues of MS confusing customers, I feel that if MS releases a set-top Kinect-focused Xbox a year before the Xbox 3 comes out, then they can basically kiss whatever casual sales that padded their Xbox 360 numbers goodbye, because casuals will have no reason to upgrade to the Xbox 3. Those are potential customers lost, and it'll be a lot harder for them to make up those numbers against competition that will most likely be going the one-box-fits-all route.
And yeah, casuals don't buy a whole lot of games anyway, but this method completely shuts them out from even possibly buying console games. The aunt who would have bought the Xbox 3 for its multimedia features and instead opts for the cheaper, gimped Kinect-Box will now not be in the position to even randomly buy the next Halo game because her nephews are coming to stay for the weekend and she's seen that game advertised everywhere.
Basically, it's a strategy that only possibly benefits Microsoft. I don't see devs being on-board with splitting the user base.
I still think it's in MS best interest to stick to a single, slick console that does it all and actually market it as such. As someone said earlier, advertise its Netflix and Windows 8 functionality just as much as the next Halo/Gears. And position the Xbox 360 as the low-cost stop on the road to a full upgrade.
Sure, for some that means MS will most likely not be releasing a SuperBox console with a quad-core GPU and Samaritan graphics for its UI or whatever crap, but oh well. The only company dumb enough to possibly go that route again is Sony.
I mentioned this as well, I am become a voice control convert. The new Dash is really nice
funkystudent
Member
I can see a gimped set top box + kinect set up timed for Windows 8 then have the hardcore system a while after with better specs.
then 2 years later update the gimped sku with better specs then 2 years after that update the hardcore sku with better specs... then 2 years after that update the gimped sku again then 2 years after that update the hardcore sky again.... and so on
it could work. Console makers need to get on a faster cycle. Maybe not apple fast but 5+ years on the same hardware is silly in this day and age.
then 2 years later update the gimped sku with better specs then 2 years after that update the hardcore sku with better specs... then 2 years after that update the gimped sku again then 2 years after that update the hardcore sky again.... and so on
it could work. Console makers need to get on a faster cycle. Maybe not apple fast but 5+ years on the same hardware is silly in this day and age.
As one more note, we actually have run into this kind of confusion once before with the Xperia Play and the Vita.
We had rumors going around that the next PSP was a phone or that it used a Qualcomm Snapdragon, but in reality that was just the Xperia Play rumors getting mixed in.
We had rumors going around that the next PSP was a phone or that it used a Qualcomm Snapdragon, but in reality that was just the Xperia Play rumors getting mixed in.
MattPeters
Member
I think I'm missing something with your speculation Nirolak. If the Xbox Loop is a kinect machine, but does not have an optical drive, how exactly would that work? Surely it can't be a digital service box.
Unless I'm behind the times and optical drive has totally changed meaning, or I've totally missed something in your post..
Unless I'm behind the times and optical drive has totally changed meaning, or I've totally missed something in your post.
.That's crazy talk.
Nintendo is about to learn the lesson that's plagued cable television providers since the 90s. Casuals absolutely hate to upgrade anything that they view as still being perfectly functional. Apple may get away with it because they've been able to successfully position their products as hipster cred/status symbols, but no way is MS going to be able to convince people to update a glorified TiVo every two years.
I suspect most people who buy it will buy it once and hold on to it until it breaks.
This comes largely from piecing the rumors together, but basically the idea is that the system is primarily focused on home entertainment and small-ish casual games that use Kinect, and thus can be designed so they are small, manageable downloads.I think I'm missing something with your speculation Nirolak. If the Xbox Loop is a kinect machine, but does not have an optical drive, how exactly would that work? Surely it can't be a digital service box.
Unless I'm behind the times and optical drive has totally changed meaning, or I've totally missed something in your post.
Microsoft frequently brags about how successful Netflix and their digital video sales/rentals are on Xbox Live, so they wouldn't need the system to play blu-rays or DVDs either.