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[Can Crusher]

I agree with your other points.

I don't believe it's valid trying to search for a current PC GPU that seems similar to leaked specs and then running benchmarks on them as a proxy to determine next gen console performance. It's laughable.

But it's probably a close approximation to the differences in performance between both consoles.

This is a really disingenuous comparison. Pretty much the single metric by which the PS2 was more capable was single-texture fillrate. In every other regard the Xbox was not only quantitatively superior but qualitatively too: it was the first home console with a GPU with pixel and vertex shaders. It could do things without breaking a sweat that the PS2 could only dream of.

I didn't say otherwise, only thing I was saying is that Ps2 could outperform the Xbox in certain scenarios. This doesn't apply to Xbox One and Ps4, because Xbox One is at a disadvantage in everything.

 

[Can Crusher]

Sure, but that difference is nowhere near the difference between 128-bit and 256-bit interfaces.

The HD 7770 in your chart represents a GPU with 72GB/s and compares it to a GPU with 150GB/s.

This is the interesting part of the discussion. In the chart, the CPU isn't feeding from the 1gb of Gddr5 with 72GB/s while on the Xbox One the Cpu is feeding from the main memory pool the GPU feeds from. So the discussion should be about how 32 MB of ESRAM, which is a small amount of memory, will be exploited to close the gap with the PS4 with its 6 GB of Gddr5 at 176 GB/S.

It's only 32 MB.

 

[twobear]

I didn't say otherwise, only thing I was saying is that Ps2 could outperform the Xbox in certain scenarios. This doesn't apply to Xbox One and Ps4, because Xbox One is at a disadvantage in everything.

Sure, but if you're expecting the gap to be bigger than PS2 to Xbox then I think you're going to be pretty disappointed.

 

[cyberheater]

But it's probably a close approximation to the differences in performance between both consoles.

If they were using the same bus width, using the same memory parts and speed as next gen consoles and built using the same manufacturing process with the latest silicon performance improvements then I'd agree.

 

[MrPresident]

PS4 uses a Pitcairn based GPU and Xbox One uses a Bonaire based GPU, this about as close as it gets before we get the actual consoles in our hands.

Completely true, but that only applies to the chip alone and not the video card as a whole. There is more to performance than just the GPU and memory bandwidth is by far the biggest factor. You can't focus solely on the chip's capabilities and ignore the subsystem that surrounds it.

To put it in context, a 256-bit HD7770 would be faster than a 128-bit HD7850 at 1080p.

 

[badb0y]

Completely true, but that only applies to the chip alone and not the video card as a whole. There is more to performance than just the GPU and memory bandwidth is by far the biggest factor. You can't focus solely on the chip's capabilities and ignore the subsystem that surrounds it.

To put it in context, a 256-bit HD7770 would be faster than a 128-bit HD7850 at 1080p.

Yes but a 256-but HD7850 would be faster than a 256-bit HD7770.

In fact, I could give the HD7770 unlimited bandwidth and it still wouldn't catch up to the HD7850 because it would run out of power before it saturates the bus.

 

[NoirVisage]

Sure, but if you're expecting the gap to be bigger than PS2 to Xbox then I think you're going to be pretty disappointed.

You'll probably eat those words sooner than you think.

 

[Paracelsus]

How big was the gap between PS3 and 360?

If the difference in multiplatform games was noticeable then and the gap was less than 40%, how can people expect it to be irrelevant now?

 

[twobear]

You'll probably eat those words sooner than you think.

I'll believe that when I see it. Xbox was pushing effects that we now consider par for the course for 3D graphics, that the PS2 would have given up and died trying to render. Take Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory. The Xbox version had larger levels, higher texture quality, better lighting, and featured bump- and normal-mapping effects that weren't just downgraded on the PS2 version, they were completely and utterly absent. And, on top of that, it also had a better framerate while running all of those improved effects. I do not believe that the differences in multiplatform games this generation will come even remotely as close.

How big was the gap between PS3 and 360?

If the difference in multiplatform games was noticeable then and the gap was less than 40%, how can people expect it to be irrelevant now?

It's quite difficult to compare for a number of reasons, not least because the Cell processor was optimised for a single kind of calculation. I don't know exact figures but it wouldn't surprise me if the Cell didn't have a peak theoretical maximum performance around twice that of the 360's CPU. The GPU is difficult to compare because of the different architectures, but IIRC the 360 had slightly higher peak performance in some situations and the PS3 in some others.

 

[Insane Metal]

This is the interesting part of the discussion. In the chart, the CPU isn't feeding from the 1gb of Gddr5 with 72GB/s while on the Xbox One the Cpu is feeding from the main memory pool the GPU feeds from. So the discussion should be about how 32 MB of ESRAM, which is a small amount of memory, will be exploited to close the gap with the PS4 with its 6 GB of Gddr5 at 176 GB/S.

It's only 32 MB.

It doesn't matter it's only 32MB. That's more than enough for its purpose.

 

[MrPresident]

Yes but a 256-but HD7850 would be faster than a 256-bit HD7770.

In fact, I could give the HD7770 unlimited bandwidth and it still wouldn't catch up to the HD7850 because it would run out of power before it saturates the bus.

And that would actually be a more valid comparison. It's the reason why DF chose the GPUs that they did - it removes bandwidth as the major confound.

The whole point is that you can't compare a GPU with 72GB/s to a GPU with 150GB/s and assume it represents the difference between X1 and PS4. It represents an X1 that has had its eSRAM removed.

 

[hedmunky84]

I finally got accepted into NeoGAF! You are my peeps. I live and breath videogames. If it wasn't for them going through my teen years I probably wouldn't be here today. So please welcome me as I am now a true part of this membership. Thank you NeoGAF and onto the reply.

Yes they are very similar, but the PS4 still has quite an edge in the hardware department. They HAD the edge with indies and self publishing, but now M$ are trying so hard to compete with Sony. PS4 dev kits have 2 options for the RAM allocation, normal = 4.5GB and large = 5.25GB. That give PS4 0.25 more RAM to be used on top of being GDDR5 and not OLD DDR3. Yes I'm a Fanboy of . . . GAMES! My PS4 pre-order is paid in full, and I cannot wait to get it. I could also get the XBone but I'm going to wait til at least next winter when there will be an exclusive or 2 that I'm just dying for. That also goes for the Wii U. Once a proper Zelda title is releases and doesn't fall short like "Skyward Sword" or "Majora's Mask" and looks like the tech demo they showed E3 2012 and possible more mature with a "T" rating like "Twilight Princess", then I'll own a Wii U also. But back to the XBone. I'm way more invested with my 360(125,000+ GamerScore)than I am with my PS3, but I'm going to where the games are going to be best for my main console this generation and with all the stuff M$ has and is turning over to the NSA and other alphabet organizations I don't trust that effin' camera or M$ any longer. Drop the stupid Kinect and $100, and Ill buy the XBone Day 1 also.

 

[Can Crusher]

Sure, but if you're expecting the gap to be bigger than PS2 to Xbox then I think you're going to be pretty disappointed.

Not bigger nor as big.

 

[Zyae]

The differnce will be noticeable by release, and put any doubt to sleep so we don't have to depend on articles from DF, if there is a power gap it should be there by the time they both launch.

what lol. No it wont. There wont be any real differences for a year or 2

 

[twobear]

what lol. No it wont. There wont be any real differences for a year or 2

Why not, though? The PS4 is more powerful, apparently has a better toolset, and the architecture is marginally less complex. The difference should be apparent very quickly.

 

[Barzul]

I finally got accepted into NeoGAF! You are my peeps. I live and breath videogames. If it wasn't for them going through my teen years I probably wouldn't be here today. So please welcome me as I am now a true part of this membership. Thank you NeoGAF and onto the reply.

Yes they are very similar, but the PS4 still has quite an edge in the hardware department. They HAD the edge with indies and self publishing, but now M$ are trying so hard to compete with Sony. PS4 dev kits have 2 options for the RAM allocation, normal = 4.5GB and large = 5.25GB. That give PS4 0.25 more RAM to be used on top of being GDDR5 and not OLD DDR3. Yes I'm a Fanboy of . . . GAMES! My PS4 pre-order is paid in full, and I cannot wait to get it. I could also get the XBone but I'm going to wait til at least next winter when there will be an exclusive or 2 that I'm just dying for. That also goes for the Wii U. Once a proper Zelda title is releases and doesn't fall short like "Skyward Sword" or "Majora's Mask" and looks like the tech demo they showed E3 2012 and possible more mature with a "T" rating like "Twilight Princess", then I'll own a Wii U also. But back to the XBone. I'm way more invested with my 360(125,000+ GamerScore)than I am with my PS3, but I'm going to where the games are going to be best for my main console this generation and with all the stuff M$ has and is turning over to the NSA and other alphabet organizations I don't trust that effin' camera or M$ any longer. Drop the stupid Kinect and $100, and Ill buy the XBone Day 1 also.

M$ really? What did they ever do to you? You sound like you just came on this thread to justify your PS4 pre-order. Nothing wrong with that, but you didn't really add much to the discussion at hand imo. And where did you get that info on PS4 dev kits, you own one?

 

[Klocker]

Sweat this all you want but in real world graphics they will be so close that it will take DF analysis to identify all the subtle differences


it will not make a difference onscreen. to most peoples' eye the games will look identical and X1 exclusives will look just as mind blowing as ps4's

this entire ps4 will blow away is laughable. At best x360- ps3 differences

some people are just setting themselves up
for disappointment with thoughts of ps4 dominance
especially now that we know they both have the same amount of RAM available for games

 

[Can Crusher]

If they were using the same bus width, using the same memory parts and speed as next gen consoles and built using the same manufacturing process with the latest silicon performance improvements then I'd agree.

You speak as if Xbox One is going to take that gpu and take it to new heights, making it perform at the level of the PS 4 gpu. All because of 32 MB of ESRAM, where I dont even if you can use 1080p and MSAA on it at the same time.

 

[apana]

I finally got accepted into NeoGAF! You are my peeps. I live and breath videogames. If it wasn't for them going through my teen years I probably wouldn't be here today. So please welcome me as I am now a true part of this membership. Thank you NeoGAF and onto the reply.

Yes they are very similar, but the PS4 still has quite an edge in the hardware department. They HAD the edge with indies and self publishing, but now M$ are trying so hard to compete with Sony. PS4 dev kits have 2 options for the RAM allocation, normal = 4.5GB and large = 5.25GB. That give PS4 0.25 more RAM to be used on top of being GDDR5 and not OLD DDR3. Yes I'm a Fanboy of . . . GAMES! My PS4 pre-order is paid in full, and I cannot wait to get it. I could also get the XBone but I'm going to wait til at least next winter when there will be an exclusive or 2 that I'm just dying for. That also goes for the Wii U. Once a proper Zelda title is releases and doesn't fall short like "Skyward Sword" or "Majora's Mask" and looks like the tech demo they showed E3 2012 and possible more mature with a "T" rating like "Twilight Princess", then I'll own a Wii U also. But back to the XBone. I'm way more invested with my 360(125,000+ GamerScore)than I am with my PS3, but I'm going to where the games are going to be best for my main console this generation and with all the stuff M$ has and is turning over to the NSA and other alphabet organizations I don't trust that effin' camera or M$ any longer. Drop the stupid Kinect and $100, and Ill buy the XBone Day 1 also.

Obligatory:

Where did you learn all this?

 

[FACE]

I finally got accepted into NeoGAF! You are my peeps. I live and breath videogames. If it wasn't for them going through my teen years I probably wouldn't be here today. So please welcome me as I am now a true part of this membership. Thank you NeoGAF and onto the reply.

Yes they are very similar, but the PS4 still has quite an edge in the hardware department. They HAD the edge with indies and self publishing, but now M$ are trying so hard to compete with Sony. PS4 dev kits have 2 options for the RAM allocation, normal = 4.5GB and large = 5.25GB. That give PS4 0.25 more RAM to be used on top of being GDDR5 and not OLD DDR3. Yes I'm a Fanboy of . . . GAMES! My PS4 pre-order is paid in full, and I cannot wait to get it. I could also get the XBone but I'm going to wait til at least next winter when there will be an exclusive or 2 that I'm just dying for. That also goes for the Wii U. Once a proper Zelda title is releases and doesn't fall short like "Skyward Sword" or "Majora's Mask" and looks like the tech demo they showed E3 2012 and possible more mature with a "T" rating like "Twilight Princess", then I'll own a Wii U also. But back to the XBone. I'm way more invested with my 360(125,000+ GamerScore)than I am with my PS3, but I'm going to where the games are going to be best for my main console this generation and with all the stuff M$ has and is turning over to the NSA and other alphabet organizations I don't trust that effin' camera or M$ any longer. Drop the stupid Kinect and $100, and Ill buy the XBone Day 1 also.

If you want to last more than a few days here you better stop doing this.

 

[Can Crusher]

It doesn't matter it's only 32MB. That's more than enough for its purpose.

What is its purpose? And why doesnt it matter?

 

[nib95]

My prediction on multiplatform differences. You can quote me on it lol. Thing I'm most unsure about is the PC differences, but we shall see.

Launch window - Nearly identical, some even either way. Nothing properly conclusive. PC versions not that different except in a few titles like BF4, but in games like COD, Witcher 3, NFS etc etc, differences are minor.

Post launch window - PS4 starting to show its hardware dominance over the Xbox One. Either a mix of better graphics, post process effects, AA, af, better frame rates or higher resolutions. Becomes more common and more noticeable.

End cycle - Same as above, but now consistently. PS4 titles are the defacto version for all multiplatform games. Sometimes the differences are quite noticeable or game changing (eg, constantly sub 30fps vs locked 30fps).

I also think PC versions of games will show less of a difference than ever before as diminishing returns are greater. This isn't 720p vs 1080p any more, it's 1080p vs 1080p. For people who are frame rate sensitive and have the cash and convenience to spare, PC will be the ideal choice, otherwise console versions of games will be more popular than ever before.

 

[Can Crusher]

Sweat this all you want but in real world graphics they will be so close that it will take DF analysis to identify all the subtle differences


it will not make a difference onscreen. to most peoples' eye the games will look identical and X1 exclusives will look just as mind blowing as ps4's

this entire ps4 will blow away is laughable. At best x360- ps3 differences

some people are just setting themselves up
for disappointment with thoughts of ps4 dominance
especially now that we know they both have the same amount of RAM available for games

Well then explain why they even bother? Why didnt they both go with 800 GFLops machines? Is MS the new nintendo now? They are thd ones hitting the sweet spot and everyone else is playing with diminishing returns right?

 

[Josman]

what lol. No it wont. There wont be any real differences for a year or 2

Why? 40% faster hardware and less complex architecture means games running better, I'm not saying it will be day and night, I'm just saying that if we noticed the difference between ps3 and 360 versions, we'll notice a bigger difference this time around, I'd love to see a Watchdogs comparison between the two, I don't see any reason for anyone who cares about performance to buy the X1 version of a game over the ps4's, for me a better framerate and resolution is more than enough, and 2 years is too much, Shadowfall already looks better than any game I've seen on the X1.

 

[szaromir]

I don't see any reason for anyone who cares about performance to buy the X1 version of a game over the ps4's, for me a better framerate and resolution is more than enough

Why anyone concerned about performance would even bother with console versions?

 

[nib95]

Why anyone concerned about performance would even bother with console versions?

Many reasons. Cost, convenience, ease of use and play, bigger install bases and more occupied multiplayer games and more.

 

[jhmtehgamr20xx]

Which is probably what it is from, too many guerilla marketing morons these days. There, I said it.

I thought it was known that PS4 has 4.5 GB GDDR5 available to devs and X1 5 GB DDR3? There's that additional 512 MB on PS4 but that's for some caching/virtual disk thing. Might wanna update those PR flyers unless you want to be sued for pretending otherwise.

It's 6GB. A RCR dev implied it and Thuway pretty much stated it. I await what CBOAT has to say.

So until then ya'll have at it.

 

[Ateron]

Sweat this all you want but in real world graphics they will be so close that it will take DF analysis to identify all the subtle differences


it will not make a difference onscreen. to most peoples' eye the games will look identical and X1 exclusives will look just as mind blowing as ps4's

this entire ps4 will blow away is laughable. At best x360- ps3 differences

some people are just setting themselves up
for disappointment with thoughts of ps4 dominance
especially now that we know they both have the same amount of RAM available for games

In this current gen, everyone was up in arms everytime DF announced that the 360 had a better version of a game, cause it had 3 more blades of grass, or the nose on some npc's face had less jaggies. 70% of the time it was "the better version".And the difference was minimal. The only thing that separated the two was the Cell, which many multiplats didn't take proper advantage, resulting in a wash between versions.

Now that the ps4 has a better gpu, and better and faster ram, which all points to a difference in power, certainly bigger than current-gen, the differences will be minimal, almost non-existent.

Now that the tables seem to be turned, comparisons are moot and differences are non existent. Gta IV, Bayonetta, Skyrim, RDR, among others, are proof that there was a difference (most likely the 360´s ram solution was better to open world games) and that resulted in these ports. I sure as hell didn't need side-by-side comparisons to see that the ps3 version was gimped as hell.
What's stopping the same developers to do the opposite this time and take better advantage of better hardware? Oh, of course, they won't cause the difference is minimal.

Smh

 

[Josman]

Why anyone concerned about performance would even bother with console versions?

How about not having a decent PC, local multiplayer, playing with friends online, or just plain convenience, oh and PC versions releasing later, and that's not even the point, just because there is a PC version doesn't mean people should settle for the lesser version.

 

[szaromir]

Many reasons. Cost, convenience, ease of use and play, bigger install bases and more occupied multiplayer games and more.

All of which are likely at least as good on PC, with performance creaming whatever the console versions output.

 

[OldAsUrSock]

My prediction on multiplatform differences. You can quote me on it lol. Thing I'm most unsure about is the PC differences, but we shall see.

Remember, I think Ubisoft said they do not want any differences between platforms so that everyone can have an equal experience.

 

[Ateron]

Remember, I think Ubisoft said they do not want any differences between platforms so that everyone can have an equal experience.

Of course they would say that. Last time I checked, most of the ACs had a more stable FPS than it's ps3 counterpart. Having seen both versions it only made the ps3's version frame dips more noticeable.

 

[Can Crusher]

Remember, I think Ubisoft said they do not want any differences between platforms so that everyone can have an equal experience.

Thats about the game itself. Or are you suggesting taht Ubi wont allow visual differences in any version of their games?

 

[ghst]

PC versions not that different except in a few titles like BF4, but in games like COD, Witcher 3, NFS etc etc, differences are minor.

PS4 titles are the defacto version for all multiplatform games. Sometimes the differences are quite noticeable or game changing (eg, constantly sub 30fps vs locked 30fps)

so 60FPS vs. 30FPS and a myriad of other IQ/detail elements is minor when it comes to the difference between PC and console, but locked 30fps vs. unlocked 30fps is significant and game-changing when it comes to the difference between the PS4 and xbone?

 

[RoboPlato]

My prediction on multiplatform differences. You can quote me on it lol. Thing I'm most unsure about is the PC differences, but we shall see.

Exactly what I'm expecting.

 

[Gemüsepizza]

so 60FPS vs. 30FPS and a myriad of other IQ/detail elements is minor when it comes to the difference between PC and console, but locked 30fps vs. unlocked 30fps is significant and game-changing when it comes to the difference between the PS4 and xbone?

This is about comparing devices which are in the same price class. The PS4 costs 399€. A PC which is capable of running nextgen games with 60fps instead of 30fps and with additional improvements, will most likely cost ~1000€ more than the PS4. So why exactly do you think a comparison between a 399€ console and a 1500€ PC makes any sense?

 

[ghst]

This is about comparing devices which are in the same price class. The PS4 costs 399€. A PC which is capable of running nextgen games with 60fps instead of 30fps and with additional improvements, will likely cost ~1000€ more than the PS4. So why exactly do you think a comparison between a 399€ console and a 1500€ PC makes any sense?

this is an enthusiast forum, i didn't realise it was a budget buyer's guide for a compromised experience.

also, you might want to punch your local computer parts dealer in the jaw for giving you a bum deal.

 

[IN&OUT]

He said it in 2005-2006 that the xbox360 was more powerful thatn the ps3, 8 years later he has been proven right, see multiplatform games

Carmack himself said that PS3 has more raw power, it just hard to extract.

http://www.videogamer.com/news/carmack_ps3_has_more_raw_performance_than_xbox_360.html

 

[Barack Lesnar]

this is an enthusiast forum, i didn't realise it was a budget buyer's guide for a compromised experience.

:lol you really, really, hate consoles. Dare I ask if you're getting an X1 or PS4 this Fall?

 

[imtehman]

Many reasons. Cost, convenience, ease of use and play, bigger install bases and more occupied multiplayer games and more.

lol, graphical fidelity between two console's multiplatforms aren't the reason why one's install base will be bigger than another.

 

[KageMaru]

Carmack is probably spot on. A difference in resolution and possibly some bandwidth dependent effects (like alpha affects) may be lower on the xbone. However this isn't the ps2 vs Xbox like some may think.

If you want to last more than a few days here you better stop doing this.

Nah I'd let him continue until he is banned. The last thing gaf needs is another member with an agenda against a company.

My prediction on multiplatform differences. You can quote me on it lol. Thing I'm most unsure about is the PC differences, but we shall see.

Sorry but this is silly.

 

[goonergaz]

Now that the ps4 has a better gpu, and better and faster ram, which all points to a difference in power, certainly bigger than current-gen, the differences will be minimal, almost non-existent.

Bingo. Tho last gen I guess MS fanboys had a point to prove against the all powerful PS3. Now apparently the same folk who went on about 2 FPS think being able to say 'xbox on' and use it to watch TV is more important lol

 

[velociraptor]

In this current gen, everyone was up in arms everytime DF announced that the 360 had a better version of a game, cause it had 3 more blades of grass, or the nose on some npc's face had less jaggies. 70% of the time it was "the better version".And the difference was minimal. The only thing that separated the two was the Cell, which many multiplats didn't take proper advantage, resulting in a wash between versions.

Now that the ps4 has a better gpu, and better and faster ram, which all points to a difference in power, certainly bigger than current-gen, the differences will be minimal, almost non-existent.

Now that the tables seem to be turned, comparisons are moot and differences are non existent. Gta IV, Bayonetta, Skyrim, RDR, among others, are proof that there was a difference (most likely the 360´s ram solution was better to open world games) and that resulted in these ports. I sure as hell didn't need side-by-side comparisons to see that the ps3 version was gimped as hell.
What's stopping the same developers to do the opposite this time and take better advantage of better hardware? Oh, of course, they won't cause the difference is minimal.

Smh

That's probably the funniest thing about this entire fiasco.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

All of which are likely at least as good on PC, with performance creaming whatever the console versions output.

Cost - No

Convenience - No

Ease of Use - No

Bigger active install base - No

More Occupied Multiplayer - No

Performance? Sure, if you shell out $1000+ for a good gaming rig. I could buy almost every single console (Wii U, Xbox One, PS4) for the price of a high end gaming rig. I get all of the exclusives, and I miss out really on nothing that I could otherwise get on PC other than better performance.

Problem is, PC game performance is tailored to consoles because they represent what the mass market will be buying. You're not going to see any games built from the ground up to support $1000 GPUs with massive amounts of TFLoPs.

So, yes, it is perfectly reasonable to argue over power differences between consoles, and it is also perfectly reasonable to care about performance if you're not getting a PC.

Quit pretending like it's somehow a moot point.

 

[imtehman]

Cost - No

Convenience - No

Ease of Use - No

Bigger active install base - No

More Occupied Multiplayer - No

Performance? Sure, if you shell out $1000+ for a good gaming rig. I could buy almost every single console (Wii U, Xbox One, PS4) for the price of a high end gaming rig. I get all of the exclusives, and I miss out really on nothing that I could otherwise get on PC other than better performance.

Problem is, PC game performance is tailored to consoles because they represent what the mass market will be buying. You're not going to see any games built from the ground up to support $1000 GPUs with massive amounts of TFLoPs.

So, yes, it is perfectly reasonable to argue over power differences between consoles, and it is also perfectly reasonable to care about performance if you're not getting a PC.

Quit pretending like it's somehow a moot point.

don't forget the online paywall which is around 300-500 for the entire generation just on one console.

A new PC isn't so bad of an investment

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

don't forget the online paywall which is around 300-500 for the entire generation just on one console.

A new PC isn't so bad of an investment

With PS+, that "paywall" basically gets me an absurd amount of games for a low fee of $49.99.

It really is amazing how absurd the value is for PS+ right now.

 

[Ateron]

With PS+, that "paywall" basically gets me an absurd amount of games for a low fee of $49.99.

It really is amazing how absurd the value is for PS+ right now.

This. The only problem will be the HDD space, but I would say that's a good sign

 

[goonergaz]

don't forget the online paywall which is around 300-500 for the entire generation just on one console.

A new PC isn't so bad of an investment

Over a console lifetime you will need to upgrade your PC. Anyway, despite that I'd say PS+ hasn't cost me a penny...when they list games I already have I sell them which funds PS+...as stated, best value ever!

 

[TheKayle]

Why not, though? The PS4 is more powerful, apparently has a better toolset, and the architecture is marginally less complex. The difference should be apparent very quickly.

is what im trying to explain ...and if this dosnt happen theres a big problem

 

[soulassssns]

No. He clearly has both dev kits. He admits that he's not done vigorous benchmarking which from Carmacks point of view is going to be a deep dive but from what he's done on them so far. The performance is very close.

That's more then good enough for me. I'll take his real world experience of the respective dev kits backed up by his amazing background and knowledge over some internet fanboys reading leaked specs and declaring a winner.

Agreed