A Twisty Fluken
Member
I have heard this same story in conversations with MS stockholders (I no longer am one). The phrase opportunity cost comes up.
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Keighley: Epic says UE4 not targeted at Wii U on GTTV, Epic responds [Updated Again]
- Thread starter Nirolak
- Start date
I have heard this same story in conversations with MS stockholders (I no longer am one). The phrase opportunity cost comes up.
Added a word. I imagine most people as they get older will be more fixated on whether a job is more profitable and still satisfying, and personally I think I'd prefer to keep gaming more detached from my career. Nevermind that a lot of people would come to view games as juvenile, or those that ARE seriously into them becoming disillusioned and coming to resent their direction going as the Jade Raymond story about some Ubisoft employees indicated.
The little information we have available is vague enough that any scalar measure of the system's performance is guaranteed to be an ass-pull. "X times more powerful" shouldn't even come into play unless we have an actual metric to compare, which we still don't.
I'm not saying the Wii U will be as powerful as Microsoft and Sony's next consoles. I think it'll fall somewhere between the old HD twins and the new ones. For Chrissakes, just don't make up silly numbers.
Yes but those whispers are usually qualified with "For moron developers". It's rumoured that Wii U has something special up it's sleeve but if developers do not utilise those features they'll get something that's a bit better than current gen in full 720, with tablet use as well. If they use all the secret sauce, who knows what we'll see. Maybe another .1 times, maybe 3 times. No one except these devs and Nintendo knows anything.
bgassassin
Member
Still focusing more on the negative rumors I see.
I may very well turn specialguy into a verb after this is all over.
"Your new car sucks!"
"Hey don't specialguy my new car!"
DragonKnight
Member
Yes but that's not what's being argued here
I'm probably just tired from analyzing specs for a long time just like you guys, but I just want to keep stress levels to a minimum.
innervision961
Member
I really like the blanket statement that UE4 isn't announced for anything other than PC. Lets be real, Epic aren't going to develop a new bread and butter engine and pour time, money and resources into pc market only and shut out the next console generation that is conveniently dropping about the same time the engine does...
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
Stockholders wanted to double down on MS's highly profitable business division but I'm not sure that there's a huge growth opportunity there right now. I think diversifying is a smart long term move for them that may not have short term pay-offs.
But their entertainment division might have been too little too late. Apple is taking money that could have been theirs.
I think most of us are more concerned about the Wii U being shafted on multiplatform games. Which can also limit the exclusives it does get, as the system fails to have the bread and butter games for third parties to care and not just write it off as where they'll be ignored by casuals and curbstomped by Nintendo themselves.
And it's stuff like that that about Microsoft's divisions/shareholders that makes me think that Microsoft might actually be the most likely company to bail should things start to go south. Nintendo, it's their entire business (and they're usually smart enough to not have massive losses), while for Sony it's practically all they have. If the Xbox lands with a PS3-like thud I could see that being incentive to pull out or at least not continue to the next generation, whereas neither of the other two would do the same, and that's a relatively mild "failure" compared to what we've seen before.
A Twisty Fluken
Member
That's usually where the conversation goes. That while MS was focused on the war for the living room, they missed out on the war for the pocket/wherever your tablet goes.
Gamer @ Heart
Member
I'm with you, its not about quality of visuals, but ability to scale a production to accommodate another version that the publisher expects to see a return on. If the Wii U has the install base and doesnt require a separate team to build a game, like treyarch and the wii versions of CoD, then i dont think there will be an issue about missing out on third party games. Especially from the major developer houses that build and use their own engines.
If for some, i believe, unlikely reason the Wii U doesnt get at least some version of UE4, i dont believe the system will feel the effects until mid 2014 and beyond when we actually see games that were specifically designed around UE4.
I don't know, man, I think it's pretty clear that the evidence points to it being somewhere between .89473678228 and 2.39582995828104.
Saying it's below or above that range would just be silly.
Yeah, people sometimes forget that Microsoft could close the Xbox division down tomorrow and the shareholders would throw Ballmer a ticker-tape parade. And the company would just carry on.
I've said before though, don't assume Sony and MS are going for the super overpowered horsepower consoles again. The losers of each gen always play follow-the-leader. Nintendo said themselves a lot of the decisions they made on the Wii were because of what the PS2 did. It wouldn't be far fetched for Sony and MS to follow a Wii example and go for a reasonable upclock that they can sell at a decent price for a profit. I mean jesus, Microsoft is gutting so many of their Xbox departments already and running their site with a very small staff compared to the early days.
edit: to clarify, it's not guaranteed that they'll go for the reasonable bump, but it's a tad silly to assume they're going to try and jump out so far ahead again automatically because they did it last gen.
I've said before though, don't assume Sony and MS are going for the super overpowered horsepower consoles again. The losers of each gen always play follow-the-leader. Nintendo said themselves a lot of the decisions they made on the Wii were because of what the PS2 did. It wouldn't be far fetched for Sony and MS to follow a Wii example and go for a reasonable upclock that they can sell at a decent price for a profit. I mean jesus, Microsoft is gutting so many of their Xbox departments already and running their site with a very small staff compared to the early days.
edit: to clarify, it's not guaranteed that they'll go for the reasonable bump, but it's a tad silly to assume they're going to try and jump out so far ahead again automatically because they did it last gen.
Exactly, I fully expect the PS4 to narrowly match the Wii U in terms of power.
REMEMBER CITADEL
Banned
And then when traditional desktop/portable computing inevitably loses its reigning position to other trends which we can see gaining traction even now, watch Microsoft become another IBM - still a successful company, but highly specialized and a mere shadow of its former self.
I don't think anyone of us should be so sure that traditional gaming is safe either. Especially with Apple around.
Aizu_Itsuko
Member
OTOH after 7-8 years they should be able to give us a traditional generational jump without having to go to such extremes.
Ivory Samoan
Gold Member
Quoted for decimal usage.
REMEMBER CITADEL
Banned
I never said it was. In fact, the gaming industry will change drastically over the next 10-20 years. At the end of it, traditional hardcore gaming will become just a tiny fragment of the overall market, not because that segment will shrink, but because others will grow faster. I know that sounds like a nightmare to many people here, but I welcome it wholeheartedly - more varied gaming experiences for everyone. Core gamers will always have plenty to play, but their grip on the direction of the entire industry will weaken significantly.
That's not surprising at all and also not exclusive to Xbox. People at Microsoft spend as much time fighting the competition as they do fighting internal teams for resources.
Gianni Merryman
Member
You could write a new entry on UrbanDictionary.
Besides, it looks just like an UrbanDictionary definition.
Wind's Howling
Member
I find it funny that people demand a huge generational leap while a small generational leap will be just as good. The only thing I am looking for is a constant framerate in 1080p and that is something that has been promised this generation but has not been delivered. I honestly do not care if a wall does not have (-super hi-res bumpy/shader/whatever-) textures.
I have played Uncharted 2 and 3. I have played Gears of War 2 and 3. Give me those type of graphics in 1080p with a slight few bumps in AA and less pop-in and I will be fine with everything else. Where are the gamers that always jumped of joy in the 16-bit era because they added new gameplay mechanics? Has it really been that hard to play console games in the last two-three years ignoring the fact that the framerate in some games falls behind?
I have played Uncharted 2 and 3. I have played Gears of War 2 and 3. Give me those type of graphics in 1080p with a slight few bumps in AA and less pop-in and I will be fine with everything else. Where are the gamers that always jumped of joy in the 16-bit era because they added new gameplay mechanics? Has it really been that hard to play console games in the last two-three years ignoring the fact that the framerate in some games falls behind?
specialguy
Banned
sure, right.
Gianni Merryman
Member
I was just thinking, could it be feasible for Nintendo to release WiU with some kind of expansion port, so that in a couple years they could upgrade the system a la "N64 expansion pack"?
This way WiiU could be up-to-date and able to run UE4, earlier adopters should only plug a sort of RAM expansion, whilst new purchasers would buy right away the newest model.
This way WiiU could be up-to-date and able to run UE4, earlier adopters should only plug a sort of RAM expansion, whilst new purchasers would buy right away the newest model.
The thing that pains me about Nintendo's recent consoles hasn't been the system's power or engine support (there are some good looking games on it), but their continued choice to try and innovate the controller. Not only is it harder to use then the competitors controllers but it's caused Kinect and Move to exist and that annoys me to no end.
DaSorcerer7
Member
That Epic's official stance as of this moment.
What on Earth would be the point of that?
I'm not saying that the PS4 will be some monster machine given that the industry (and Sony's own precarious financial state) are moving away from that but why would Sony bother releasing a machine that, according to you, would barely be more powerful that the PS3 is now?
I feel we need some experimentation to keep things interesting, it's just disappointing the Wii Remote didn't really have much utility afterall. At least with the Wii U controller there's plenty of advantages to a secondary display, either displaying maps/information or going further like Etrian Odyssey with mapping. I'd love if a new Zelda went a bit more hardcore but including note taking and whatnot like the DS Zeldas.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Innovating controllers (Wii, Kinect) has brought a HUGE number of new consumers into the gaming realm. It would be foolish to not continue on with that path.
Regardless of what some on GAF want, the gaming industry is no longer purely a market for core gamers.
If you don't think that UE4 has been built specifically for the next Xbox and Playstation you are crazy. There will not be any UE4 games until these consoles are out and it will most likely be Gears of War 4.
Well, to be fair, it sounds like it hasn't. It sounds like it's been built specifically for the spec Epic want, and now they're trying to coax the hardware manufacturers into meeting that spec.
It's been built for the next Xbox and Playstation *that Epic want*. It remains to be seen if the hardware will end up being that system.
Why would you do that?
Member
I think it's important Nintendo does try to innovate the input device for a couple of reasons.
1.) Nintendo needs to differentiate their console from everyone else's. Think about the consoles of past generations. They were usually different from one another. System A might have FM Synthesis, a faster processor, and a couple background layers, but System B would have real sound, a slower processor, and better graphics with rotation effects. This makes the games for each system a unique experience, often not possible on the competitor's. Nowadays, thanks to the standardization of graphics, sound, and controllers, consoles and their games are very similar to one another. Look at the 360 and PS3. Not counting the exclusive games, what's so special about one over the other? Many would argue that it's only worthwhile to get either or, since they share so many games and their performance is similar. (Some even add the PC to the list.) So let's put in the Wii U without the controller and 1st party games. What's so special about it? The thing that makes it special is the controller. A different input device will allow for games with an experience not possible on the competitor's system.
2.) Better input devices can make games better. Nintendo has been trying for years to create a great input device. They've created the d-pad and shoulder buttons, and implemented rumble, the analog stick, and the pointer in games. They've also introduced touchscreens for games in the DS. All of these have been released to gamers with praise, and are technologies proven useful in just about every game. Why should they stop trying to create new input devices, just because what we have is good enough?
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Epic has already said not to even expect any UE4 games during the first couple years after the new consoles release.
He's not lying.
Define "traditional" lol
Rivyn said:
Given the choice many developers will choose 720p (or in the case of this generation, much less) to deliver the shiny to you.
Earlier in this thread I criticized Nintendo for releasing underpowered systems, but they should be praised for the design innovations they've made to the controller. The fact that Microsoft and Sony implemented their own motion control products is a testament to how popular the Wii mote was this generation.
However, I'm not sure if the Wii U's tablet controller will have the same success. I think most people already have a tablet or smartphone and will be unimpressed by the features that the Wii U's controller will provide. I also think most people were impressed with the Wii's motion controls because most parents saw it as a way to combat childhood obesity.
GoW was released a year after the Xbox 360 released. Sounds about right in line with the last gen.
Whatever the final specs end up being, they will re-tool the engine accordingly. All they are going to be showing at E3 is what the engine is capable of now in real time. But if anyone thinks we are going to see some PC exclusive game from Epic that isn't released on next gen consoles first you are going to be sorely disappointed.
Aizu_Itsuko
Member
Overall performance jump similar to previous shorter hardware generations (let's ignore diminishing returns since I'm not talking about that).
My point is that they don't have to go bankrupt or create a system the size of a refrigerator to achieve a similar jump to the ones seen in the past given how old the current consoles are.
Is there any way to support this claim?
In the quote he said that MS is "all in" for UE4 since GDC, but that contradicts with StevieP's claims that neither MS or Sony will be going all out for the high end market.
There's something that isn't adding up with all these stories.
They are related. If you don't have the tech to properly display the art, then art direction will only take you so far. Halo 3 has some of the best textures for a shooter, but it's hard to tell with the horrible filtering in the game.
That really depends on the style, but I think at this point we have more than enough for most styles, unless you're actively trying to emulate a lifelike painting.
I don't agree, a game with 8xMSAA and 8xAF will display the art far better than something running at 2xMSAA and 2xAF.
Art is an important factor, easily the main driving force behind a game's graphical output, I'm just saying that you need proper tech to do that art justice or else it'll be lost when displayed on the screen.
Depends how you define "high end market"
You're certainly not going to see Tahitis and 680's inside consoles, if that's what you're saying.
How bout this as a definition: MS and Sony will be seeking "everyone" to buy their consoles? Not just us message board geeks.
Epic, as always, wants more grunt than the platform makers are willing to give... in some respects at least.
Forsaken82
Member
When it comes to Third party exclusives, I don't expect many to exist in general so really don't think this is going to be an issue. Multiplats is a different story however.
So what you're saying is the first part of that quote is true but the second part is wrong?
I understand what you're saying here, but that doesn't really answer my question.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
"All in" for UE4 doesn't necessarily mean 8GB of RAM, etc. Most likely Epic complained, MS listened, and they compromised to the point Epic was pleased.
Not really.
Ram alone if it's above 1GB gives me a giddness that no current console can. There is no real comparison considering this is nintendo first HD system which has a power requirement none of them did. Outside of other HD console it's stupid comparing any other console to WiiU.