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[Kelas]

This guy's outrage and shtick is completely baffling to me.

 

[IvorB]

I've just watched this video for a second time, and continue to be awed by how intellectually bankrupt it is. Its stance is philistine.

The mini-game is a problem solely because it's interactive: have the lead character ogling women in a cutscene, and suddenly you're playing a loathsome anti-hero. Directly implicate players in that same behaviour - to potentially fascinating ends - and all of a sudden it's fair game to strip Goichi Suda of creative relativity and dismiss the man as a pervert. It 's completely bereft of a curiosity about what videogames can exclusively achieve, and stands as a reminder that so much games writing is still about self-conscious posturing instead of actual analysis. Can you imagine making a video like this about a film or a book? Nobody would tolerate it.

I look forward to feeling uncomfortable while playing Killer is Dead - I'd expect nothing less from a confrontational tale about a degenerate scumbag - and will hopefully be continuously fascinated by a story in which I'm clearly not supposed to identify with its central character.

Hundreds of years of brilliant, enlightened art criticism makes this impromptu trip back to the dark ages all the more depressing . Can we give the creators of interactive entertainment the same grace and respect that we grant to the creators of non-interactive entertainment please? There's really no need to start at the beginning again.

Now this I can co-sign. It's pretty pathetic to see so-called professional critics failing to engage intelligently with game content in this way. Instead of intelligently, ctitically analysing the piece they are getting worked up into a frothy-mouthed, tabloid outcry. It's pathetic. Maybe one day we will have actual video game critics instead of just dudes who write about video games.

 

[sonicmj1]

So Matty, you didn't actually play Killer is Dead but instead watched a brief play-through by another person and felt this was sufficient for harsh critique of not only the game itself but also a public thrashing of it's director and fans?


Then again, I bet it is bloody difficult trying to play a video game yourself when your head is so far up your own arse.

You wouldn't want someone to criticize you with this tone if you said something stupid. So why would you do that to others?

Isn't there some internet version of the Golden Rule we could all follow for better discussions?

 

[IrishNinja]

I've just watched this video for a second time, and continue to be awed by how intellectually bankrupt it is. Its stance is philistine.

The mini-game is a problem solely because it's interactive: have the lead character ogling women in a cutscene, and suddenly you're playing a loathsome anti-hero. Directly implicate players in that same behaviour - to potentially fascinating ends - and all of a sudden it's fair game to strip Goichi Suda of creative relativity and dismiss the man as a pervert. It 's completely bereft of a curiosity about what videogames can exclusively achieve, and stands as a reminder that so much games writing is still about self-conscious posturing instead of actual analysis. Can you imagine making a video like this about a film or a book? Nobody would tolerate it.

I look forward to feeling uncomfortable while playing Killer is Dead - I'd expect nothing less from a confrontational tale about a degenerate scumbag - and will hopefully be continuously fascinated by a story in which I'm clearly not supposed to identify with its central character.

Hundreds of years of brilliant, enlightened art criticism makes this impromptu trip back to the dark ages all the more depressing . Can we give the creators of interactive entertainment the same grace and respect that we grant to the creators of non-interactive entertainment please? There's really no need to start at the beginning again.

i like this post - some of Suda's titles deliberately make me feel uncomfortable (design choice joke goes here), as Travis Touchdown did whilst clearly mocking the generic badasses we'd had about at the time, and Killer 7 of course did this many times (it's funny how we're using the word "creepy" as a pejorative in this thread, when its both something else entirely and an intended effect in said game). additionally, i agree that other less interactive mediums make no hesitation to put me behind the eyes of characters who do awful, loathsome things - but before even getting a chance at seeing this one, some rushed to the pulpit of youtube with a throwaway skit they apparently felt was important based on the backlash. if this is any real way affected sales/the developer (as, say, that shit review of Nier that joystiq did a while back might've) then i'd definitely view it as a step back.

 

[EvilKatarn]

What if Suda now tweets: "It's with a heavy heart that we announce that Killer is Dead has been cancelled and is no longer in development. We apologize for the disappointment. Suck a dick. Choke on it."

 

[Jenga]

Yep. I have it on good authority that women fantasize about lolling about in thong underwear and hitting things with their asses.

My fantasy is wearing superman pajamas and hitting things with my ass.


the man of steel baby

 

[michaelius]

I would seriously never expect that this would cause such an uproar.

It's like people don't know what kind of games Suda51 is making.

Boobs are evil and some people are on crusade to make sure all games are 7+ friendly.

 

[Castle Doctrine]

You already know the answer for that question.

And if you'd actually ask Sessler or Gies, they'd tell you how dead wrong you are and how right they are.
This is just how "gaming journalism" works. Don't you remember how Sessler addressed the audience after the backlash?

You misogynistic monster you.

This is how progressivism and feminism works. The people who preach and practice these religions are morally superior and anyone who disagrees is a lowly sinner who has yet to be properly brainwashed educated.

Even when they're caught lying it doesn't matter because it was in service to their morally superior agenda. I'm glad Matt was caught out there though and shamed, but I doubt it will make a difference.

 

[Impossiburu]

All of the trailers, screenshots and marketing for this game have made the content fairly obvious. Either buy it or don't, there's no need to get all book-burny over a video game.

As gaming grows, there's bound to be a dirge of "offensive" material. It's the journey of every entertainment medium. People screaming for censorship are also part of that journey.

If it sounds offense to you, don't buy it. Otherwise, its existence won't kill you.

 

[IvorB]

My fantasy is wearing superman pajamas and hitting things with my ass.


the man of steel baby

Buns of Steel?

 

[goo girl]

ITT: White guys discuss women's issues because who else knows better than them

Not everyone in this thread is a white man.

Besides, the idea that only minorities can discuss minority issues is dumb. Doubly so considering the conversation in this thread was started by... a white man.

Why is it that the games that look like they could be the best ones of this year are attacked by the press for being sexist?

Hits. No one's going to click on a video called "Is The Maiden Rape Assault - Violent Semen Inferno sexist?" but accuse an anticipated game of the same thing? Journalists gotta eat too.

 

[kadotsu]

This whole thing is really a catch 22 for the author. In its current form no dialog can form because the audience has no knowledge of how these scenes are contextualized. Because of that we have to take the author's description of these scenes to create an argument (they sound pretty fucking sexist). The problem is that the support for his argument rest entirely on his own credentials to represent the Gigolo Mode in a fair way and not the facts presented by the game itself.

If he had presented his argument after the game released this wouldn't be the case and a productive dialog may form. However we have seen time and time again that people take attacks on games they enjoyed as personal attacks and defend those games accordingly, especially niche/author games.

I personally would still have preferred the latter because I can't shake the "clickbaity" feeling of this video even if he is probably right IMO.

 

[Chairmanchuck]

Could it be.... because they're sexist?

But right now it seems there is some kind of crusade going on that labels everything as sexist.

I mean in the first Anita-thread there were people trying to discuss that the spikes in the new Tomb Raider are phallic objects and when you die, Lara moans and... the imlications of that.
Then somehow strong female characters are now just called "Guys with boobs".

I dont wanna say there are games that are sexist, but different games for different peers. I somehow doubt females would really care if they either play DoA or Tekken, just because of the ways the females are shown in that.
______________________________________

Another thing I noticed is, that Dragon Age also has these things. Get them presents, f*** them later. It just takes more time. Why wasnt there a big outcry because of that? Besides the sex-scenes and romantic-scenes in DA are even worse than what you can read in japanese hentai-visual novels...

 

[Coxy]

However we have seen time and time again that people take attacks on games they enjoyed as personal attacks and defend those games accordingly, especially niche/author games.

actually he specificly made it an attack on players of the game calling them umpteen insults, fap happy teens etc

 

[kadotsu]

actually he specificly made it an attack on players of the game calling them umpteen insults, fap happy teens etc

Yeah, I forgot about that. Stuff like that should be discouraged if you want constructive discussion about hot button issues in media. The mantra should be "You can enjoy problematic media. But please, acknowledge the problem."

 

[BladeoftheImmortal]

I want to play just this mode.

 

[kartu]

That reviewer can fuck off into space too.

Exactly.

 

[Deleted member 126221]

I've just watched this video for a second time, and continue to be awed by how intellectually bankrupt it is. Its stance is philistine.

The mini-game is a problem solely because it's interactive: have the lead character ogling women in a cutscene, and suddenly you're playing a loathsome anti-hero. Directly implicate players in that same behaviour - to potentially fascinating ends - and all of a sudden it's fair game to strip Goichi Suda of creative relativity and dismiss the man as a pervert. It 's completely bereft of a curiosity about what videogames can exclusively achieve, and stands as a reminder that so much games writing is still about self-conscious posturing instead of actual analysis. Can you imagine making a video like this about a film or a book? Nobody would tolerate it.

I look forward to feeling uncomfortable while playing Killer is Dead - I'd expect nothing less from a confrontational tale about a degenerate scumbag - and will hopefully be continuously fascinated by a story in which I'm clearly not supposed to identify with its central character.

Hundreds of years of brilliant, enlightened art criticism makes this impromptu trip back to the dark ages all the more depressing . Can we give the creators of interactive entertainment the same grace and respect that we grant to the creators of non-interactive entertainment please? There's really no need to start at the beginning again.

Amen. Context is everything. I never found that Suda51 games glorified anything the characters did, and that makes a huge difference. I was shocked at first when I saw the Matt Lee video and considered cancelling my pre-order for the game, but then I looked at the actual gameplay videos and got better explanations from the Xseed employees here, and my view on this changed completely. I find the "sex scenes" in God of War way more offensive and sexist in that regard.

It's a good thing to call out sexism in games, but internet commentators are doing in a very ham-fisted way these days... KiD and Dragon's Crown are the best examples of sexism in videogames? Really?

 

[IvorB]

"You can enjoy problematic media. But please, acknowledge the problem."

Story of my life, mate.

 

[Krabboss]

Not everyone in this thread is a white man.

Besides, the idea that only minorities can discuss minority issues is dumb. Doubly so considering the conversation in this thread was started by... a white man.

Generally white men are the least capable of discussing these issues. That's why this thread is so full of shit!

 

[eliochip]

KiD and Dragon's Crown are the best examples of sexism in videogames? Really?

I feel like they're the easiest targets though.

Japanese games that are fairly niche. Not many people would seemingly defend them.
It's like picking on the nerdy kid in a wheelchair at school.

 

[EvilKatarn]

What's the deal with the pre-order X-ray glasses?
They allow you to see through everything?

If so, then that would be weird.

 

[Vazra]

What's the deal with the pre-order X-ray glasses?
They allow you to see through everything?

If so, then that would be weird.

You see underwear and things she like so you can give her what she wants.

 

[Delusibeta]

It's like in the anime community, there are people that are absolutely PISSED about the existence of Free! (a show featuring sexy teenage boys in a swimming club w/ plenty of fanservice, innuendo, and exploitative camera angles) - and it's absolutely hypocritical considering the vast portions of material that gets made every season featuring sexy and/or cute girls w/ fanservice, innuendo, and camera angles. STFU and let other people enjoy what they like - let another audience have a turn. It's not hurting you that it exists.

I will pop in here and ride this post into off topc, and say that, having lurked AnimeGAF, their response to Free basically boiled down to whogivesashit.gif, rolling eyes at the outrage and "well, it's something for DTL". Oh, and a spot-on parody of The Onion's parody of political cartoons. So, er, yeah.

I suppose an accelerating factor is that Free is by Kyoto Animation, who inspired the phrase "cute girls doing cute things". They have a niche, and Free isn't in it, so RAEG. It'll be a bit like the response to Platinum announcing they're doing a new Mario game, or something.

 

[Haly]

I will pop in here and ride this post into off topc, and say that, having lurked AnimeGAF, their response to Free basically boiled down to whogivesashit.gif, rolling eyes at the outrage and "well, it's something for DTL". Oh, and a spot-on parody of The Onion's parody of political cartoons. So, er, yeah.

I suppose an accelerating factor is that Free is by Kyoto Animation, who inspired the phrase "cute girls doing cute things". They have a niche, and Free isn't in it, so RAEG. It'll be a bit like the response to Platinum announcing they're doing a new Mario game, or something.

We're not an accurate microcosm of the wider anime watching populace just like NeoGAF isn't a good representation of what gamers overall are like.

We're rather more reasonable.

The Free backlash is a real thing is youtube comments are anything to judge by. And that there is a lot of latent homosexuality in the anime watching community.

 

[Stone Ocean]

I've just watched this video for a second time, and continue to be awed by how intellectually bankrupt it is. Its stance is philistine.

The mini-game is a problem solely because it's interactive: have the lead character ogling women in a cutscene, and suddenly you're playing a loathsome anti-hero. Directly implicate players in that same behaviour - to potentially fascinating ends - and all of a sudden it's fair game to strip Goichi Suda of creative relativity and dismiss the man as a pervert. It 's completely bereft of a curiosity about what videogames can exclusively achieve, and stands as a reminder that so much games writing is still about self-conscious posturing instead of actual analysis. Can you imagine making a video like this about a film or a book? Nobody would tolerate it.

I look forward to feeling uncomfortable while playing Killer is Dead - I'd expect nothing less from a confrontational tale about a degenerate scumbag - and will hopefully be continuously fascinated by a story in which I'm clearly not supposed to identify with its central character.

Hundreds of years of brilliant, enlightened art criticism makes this impromptu trip back to the dark ages all the more depressing . Can we give the creators of interactive entertainment the same grace and respect that we grant to the creators of non-interactive entertainment please? There's really no need to start at the beginning again.

Agreed.

Sex in movies and books? IT'S ARTSY.

Sex in videogames? You misogynistic asshole.

 

[2San]

Agreed.

Sex in movies and books? IT'S ARTSY.

Sex in videogames? You misogynistic asshole.

Bullshit, it depends on the movie. No one is going to say that the sex in the American pie movies are "artsy." I haven't really heard people saying that Mass Effect is misogynistic, because of the sex scene's.

 

[sonicmj1]

Agreed.

Sex in movies and books? IT'S ARTSY.

Sex in videogames? You misogynistic asshole.

Depends on the movie. Those conversations happen, they're just as niche in their respective fields as this conversation is for games.

Or they're not even all that niche. Here's a quote from an article from Cannes about a French movie that happens to have a lot of sex in it, La Vie d'Adèle, Chapitres 1 & 2:

The divisiveness essentially came down to the movie's immersive depiction of the sex. There are four or five scenes of real, orgasmic sex — one heterosexual, the rest lesbian. The enraptured find the whole thing beautiful and moving and deeply, powerfully true. They applaud the frankness, intimacy, and duration of the scenes. With France having recently and controversially legalized gay marriage, a few of the film's champions believe that this is the time for a representation of same-sex relationships. Some of these people swear they don't at all see two ripe femmes ramming their bodies into each other. They see — to invoke the winner of last year's Palme d'Or — amour.

The disenchanted think those people are full of shit.

For them, La Vie d'Adèle is exploitation masquerading as art. The girls are too ripe, the sex too porny, the bodies too Renaissance-y, the premise too bogus. For about 75 minutes, it's the story of the eponymous teenager growing into her sexuality, and it's stressful. But the stresses suddenly vanish, and all that appears to concern Kechiche is the fucking and having women listen to men talk about the female orgasm. And don't even get some of the eye-rollers started about the vapid understanding of the art. If you think the sex is bogus, wait until you see and hear people analyze Emma's paintings … of the sex!

But somehow they manage to have these conversations every now and then without acting like the entire movie industry is getting torn to pieces by manchild directors or angry feminists.

 

[goo girl]

Generally white men are the least capable of discussing these issues. That's why this thread is so full of shit!

There are white men on both sides of the issue here. Are both camps full of shit?

We're not an accurate microcosm of the wider anime watching populace just like NeoGAF isn't a good representation of what gamers overall are like.

We're rather more reasonable.

The Free backlash is a real thing is youtube comments are anything to judge by. And that there is a lot of latent homosexuality in the anime watching community.

Youtube comments are bigoted in literally every circumstance though, I don't know if I'd judge a community by them

 

[Uthred]

The only counter-points that hold much salt with me are those related to cultural differences. There have been a bunch of really interesting points about this dotted throughout the thread, but I guess this once again all comes down to personal perspective. We have to accept some cultural differences, but there has to be a cut-off point too: As mentioned in an earlier post, you can't ignore the kind of behavior that happens in places like South Africa. If we socially accept all cultural differences, that means accepting babies being raped and kids with guns. Obviously I'm not suggesting that anyone outside of that culture would condone that behavior, but extremities such as this mean that we need to define a cut-off point, especially when not actually visiting that culture itself, and purely looking at imported material. I accept that this may be acceptable in Japan, but despite taking that into account, I have to ask myself if it's acceptable within my culture too. My answer in this case, is not really - no.

Comparing not having a problem with Gigolo mode to raping babies, apartheid and child soldiers. Not senationalist in the least.

By the same merit, there's nothing you can do to get me to say that my opinion on Mondo Mode was 'wrong', even though the majority of people on this forum seem to disagree with me. I've admitted that a factual error may have been made - and I apologise for that.

Apart from the irony, may have been made? You admitted earlier in the post that it had been made. Its impressive that you cant make it through a single post without backpedaling.

Again, if this stance makes me your enemy, I will wear that badge with pride.

Yeah youre a hero

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Looks like I'll be purchasing every available version of this game to show my support.

Everything is not for everyone.

 

[Haly]

Youtube comments are bigoted in literally every circumstance though, I don't know if I'd judge a community by them

The wider internet is also bigoted in every circumstance so I think it's a pretty good indicator!

 

[Abriael]

Matt Lees = another one to add to my "complete morons in game journalism" list.

 

[pa22word]

What if Suda now tweets: "It's with a heavy heart that we announce that Killer is Dead has been cancelled and is no longer in development. We apologize for the disappointment. Suck a dick. Choke on it."

Canceled (lol)

 

[Kagami]

"You can enjoy problematic media. But please, acknowledge the problem."

This is something I've been mulling over for a while now.
I think placing warning text screens at the startup of games with sexist content, the same way as is done for some games where you engage in criminal behavior, could go a long way to making people feel better.

Not a wishy-washy "some people might be offended"-type message, but a firm declaration acknowledging the content of the game, stating that the game isn't condoning the behavior as something to imitate, and even acknowledging the relationship between specific details and the world we live in, since, as homulilly noted:

If the world wasn't full of creeps and I could actually think of the last game I played with decent female representation that wasn't sexualized then I wouldn't have any problem with Gigolo mode, but that's unfortunately not the world we live in and it's not the world games like Killer Is Dead exist in.

...in cases like KiD, it's not even the content itself, but rather its relation to the particular culture the game is being sold within at this particular point in time. (Hopefully 50 years from now we'll live in a society where no one would have any reason to be offended by romance mini-game featuring ogling and a super-simplified gift-giving mechanic.)

I remember one of GAF's many female-characters-in-gaming threads (wish I could remember which one now) had toward the end of its OP a brief note that games like Dead or Alive Beach Volleyball were not the sort of thing people were complaining about or wanting to get rid of. Across the 200 pages of that thread, I don't remember anybody disagreeing with that.
As far as I can tell, the reason for that is that games like DoAX are so blatant and focused in their portrayal across the entire game that the content effectively implicitly self-labels itself as unrealistic nonsense fantasy, and people feel comfortable with taking them as such and assuming other people understand it that way as well. Which leads me to think that more ambiguous content, where people aren't sure what message it's sending, could benefit from explicit labeling.

 

[SolidSnakex]

This is something I've been mulling over for a while now.
I think placing warning text screens at the startup of games with sexist content, the same way as is done for some games where you engage in criminal behavior, could go a long way to making people feel better.

This won't happen for the simple fact that what some people view as being sexist isn't what other people view as being sexist. Criminal behavior is something very obvious and not really debatable.

 

[goo girl]

The wider internet is also bigoted in every circumstance so I think it's a pretty good indicator!

I'll never look at cereal eaters the same way again.

 

[abadguy]

But right now it seems there is some kind of crusade going on that labels everything as sexist.

I mean in the first Anita-thread there were people trying to discuss that the spikes in the new Tomb Raider are phallic objects and when you die, Lara moans and... the imlications of that.
Then somehow strong female characters are now just called "Guys with boobs".

I dont wanna say there are games that are sexist, but different games for different peers. I somehow doubt females would really care if they either play DoA or Tekken, just because of the ways the females are shown in that.
______________________________________

Another thing I noticed is, that Dragon Age also has these things. Get them presents, f*** them later. It just takes more time. Why wasnt there a big outcry because of that? Besides the sex-scenes and romantic-scenes in DA are even worse than what you can read in japanese hentai-visual novels...

......

WAT?

 

[Nickoten]

Matt Lee could be totally correct about all these things he's saying, but I'll still wait until I play the game before I pass any judgment. Suda 51's games pretty much always make a strong statement, and male sexuality (and also sexism) tends to be a recurring tool in that. Just look at how Sylvia's used in No More Heroes, and how her character's portrayal is used to say a lot more about Travis than about women in general.

People tend to look too much at the face of something and decide that "bad" things used at all make a game a "bad" thing, too. Sometimes seemingly sexist and juvenile content can be used to make an interesting and decidedly not-that-sexist point.

 

[Mr. Somebody]

O yall are going in. GET HIM, Get him GET HIM!

 

[DashReindeer]

I've just watched this video for a second time, and continue to be awed by how intellectually bankrupt it is. Its stance is philistine.

The mini-game is a problem solely because it's interactive: have the lead character ogling women in a cutscene, and suddenly you're playing a loathsome anti-hero. Directly implicate players in that same behaviour - to potentially fascinating ends - and all of a sudden it's fair game to strip Goichi Suda of creative relativity and dismiss the man as a pervert. It 's completely bereft of a curiosity about what videogames can exclusively achieve, and stands as a reminder that so much games writing is still about self-conscious posturing instead of actual analysis. Can you imagine making a video like this about a film or a book? Nobody would tolerate it.

I look forward to feeling uncomfortable while playing Killer is Dead - I'd expect nothing less from a confrontational tale about a degenerate scumbag - and will hopefully be continuously fascinated by a story in which I'm clearly not supposed to identify with its central character.

Hundreds of years of brilliant, enlightened art criticism makes this impromptu trip back to the dark ages all the more depressing . Can we give the creators of interactive entertainment the same grace and respect that we grant to the creators of non-interactive entertainment please? There's really no need to start at the beginning again.

Quoting you again because you're absolutely right and I hope Matt Lees is still lurking around here somewhere. I actually have become quite a fan of his recently, and find him to generally be fairly astute and funny with his observations on the industry; however, here he really does sound like a philistine (or perhaps just a bit of a prude?). The real issue as I see it is that using overtly sexual and exploitative elements in your work does not preclude being an auteur as Matt seems to think it does.

I've really never seen this sort of criticism lobbied by legitimate critics in other artistic mediums; why are games different just because they are interactive?

 

[Mr.Monitor]

I've admitted that I made a mistake about money being an item (I can't give you more information on why that is as I don't have access to the preview code at the moment) but I also maintain that this change in detail doesn't change the way I feel about the mode.

The thing is, that isn't the point. You're focusing on that, yet you've been shown to be ignorant of Suda 51's past work, the Japanese market, the minigame itself, and everything in the game aside from gigolo mode. You talk about context and tone, but your entire argument is based around stripping it away to form a sensationalist, uninformed viewpoint. I have no problem with you finding gigolo mode uncomfortable, that's completely understandable, but I do have a problem with you acting high and mighty when you've been shown on multiple occasions to be talking out of your ass. It's even worse that you're a "journalist" for a site with a decent following, you have to admit that you have a responsibility to present only the most accurate info so that you won't mislead your viewers. Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to be a priority to you, and you'd rather make your case in a way that's trite and condescending. If feeling this way makes me your enemy, that's a badge that I'm proud to wear. I'm tired of uninformed, reactionary opinion pieces being passed off as hard hitting "journalism" and being told that I'm an immature misogynist for not buying into it.

 

[RangerBAD]

Matt Lee could be totally correct about all these things he's saying, but I'll still wait until I play the game before I pass any judgment. Suda 51's games pretty much always make a strong statement, and male sexuality (and also sexism) tends to be a recurring tool in that. Just look at how Sylvia's used in No More Heroes, and how her character's portrayal is used to say a lot more about Travis than about women in general.

People tend to look too much at the face of something and decide that "bad" things used at all make a game a "bad" thing, too. Sometimes seemingly sexist and juvenile content can be used to make an interesting and decidedly not-that-sexist point.

Not really since XSeed came out and said his assumptions are mostly incorrect.

 

[fabricated backlash]

Depends on the movie. Those conversations happen, they're just as niche in their respective fields as this conversation is for games.

Or they're not even all that niche. Here's a quote from an article from Cannes about a French movie that happens to have a lot of sex in it, La Vie d'Adèle, Chapitres 1 & 2:



But somehow they manage to have these conversations every now and then without acting like the entire movie industry is getting torn to pieces by manchild directors or angry feminists.

On forums? On Youtube? Hardly. Now if you want expert critics to have similar discussions then yeah there are, but public forums are hardly suited to host such discussions.

We would also need actual critics instead of narcissistic tossers who love to hijack popular social topics to prop up their peacock plumage.
We have almost no journalistic reporting on videogames, we have specialized enthusiast press and little else. The few that actually try to deliver a much needed journalistic view on this industry are either bankrupt or irrelevant due to being works of passion/unpaid and have no access/ad revenue.

 

[Chairmanchuck]

......

WAT?

Thats why its kinda hard sometimes to take such topics seriously.

People can nitpick about everything. Strong female become "guys with boobs", so thats also sexist. You will see posts like:
"Its not really a female. They just took a male character and made them a female."

I also dont see anything wrong with this mode. In Dragon Age you could do this, talk to them a lot, give them presents IIRC and you can f*** them. No one was pissed about this, most were just kinda disappointed in the piss-poor writing about these scenes.
Or Mass Effect. You can do the same, you have females in tight suits, showing their ass in cutscenes and such.
You could also do a similar thing in Yakuza. You had a host-club, could date girls and such things. Give them presents for them to like you more.

 

[RedNumberFive]

Dude in the video really likes to talk with his hands.

 

[JoeFenix]

I love how for all this nonsense no one here has actually played the damn thing yet because it's not even out.

All this talk of context just goes flying right out the window until then honestly.

 

[Rehynn]

I love how for all this nonsense no one here has actually played the damn thing yet because it's not even out.

All this talk of context just goes flying right out the window until then honestly.

There's at least three people here who have played the game, and at least one of them multiple times.

 

[Northeastmonk]

Ever since gaming became the billion dollar marketing machine there have been just a plethora of analyst from every part of the spectrum. Where the heck do we draw the lines with opinions and small talk? It's becoming a scene where 4 or 5 journalist play a game and cause a huge mess of rhetoric arguments.

And at the same time these very same people will argue the whole hometown debate of "I played it, so here's what I think" that feels like a load of white knight BS all the freaking time.

 

[JoeFenix]

There's at least three people here who have played the game, and at least one of them multiple times.

I was mostly shaking my head at the fact that the guy who made this video hasn't even touched the game and knows nothing about how all the pieces fit together in the complete game.

It's all just so ridiculous, people are damn near literally writing dissertations and essays on the game and it's not even out yet. All this talk of Suda 51 when he doesn't even seem that closely involved in the project, so much nonsense being thrown about.

To sum it up here is a visual representation of how I feel about this whole thing