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[cartman414]

The trouble with redoing FF7 in HD is the goofy elements that were placed along the more serious ones (i. e. the Honeybee Inn).

 

[Nairume]

What about Star Ocean 4? It didn't have a world map but it sure had towns.
And the graphics are fine from what I've seen.

Small towns with little going on.

The FFVII remake you guys keep talking about sounds bad.

No a FFVII remake should be a re imagining of FFVII. It shouldn't be a frame by frame upscale/HD remix of FFVII. It should be a new game that takes and removes the good and bad of FFVII. Not something like the DS remakes and not something like MGS: Twin Snakes. A more up to date version with the same word, story(tweaked a bit/ a lot), and characters.

You say not like Twin Snakes...but that's exactly what you describe.

Kitase is right to point out that the amount of effort to do a remake of FF7 on that level is really not worth the time or the effort that they'd need to make it. At this point, if they did do a remake, a portable update is probably the only viable one. That's even kind of moot, considering the PSP is already capable of playing the game through PSN.

 

[ronito]

Kitase: "Towns are hard and stuff"

 

[The Bookerman]

Sometimes I wish people would move on.

 

[Branduil]

There's something fundamentally wrong with game development if advances in technology make developers feel more constricted in what they can accomplish.

Besides, I don't see why they could not use the CG assets from the original game.

 

[Nairume]

I see a lot of juniors like Nomura too <3

Spoiler

and equal amount hates him I'm sure

I don't *hate* him, but I certainly don't particularly care much for his designs.

 

[ULTROS!]

I wonder how they'll pull off Aeris' infamous "This guy are sick" through pretty graphics and voiceovers? :lol

 

[Rahxephon91]

The trouble with redoing FF7 in HD is the goofy elements that were placed along the more serious ones (i. e. the Honeybee Inn).

And a remake should and would remove them. You guys really think they would have Cloud dress in drag or have all the same Trunks humor? No way. The guys who made that game have grown up and so has the medium itself. FFX does not have the same goody things that FFVII has and theres good reason for that.

You say not like Twin Snakes...but that's exactly what you describe.

Kitase is right to point out that the amount of effort to do a remake of FF7 on that level is really not worth the time or the effort that they'd need to make it. At this point, if they did do a remake, a portable update is probably the only viable one. That's even kind of moot, considering the PSP is already capable of playing the game through PSN.

No thats not what I'm describing at all. Twin Snakes is not a re imagining of MGS. Its a scene by scene remake of MGS1. Oh they put some new style in the cutscenes, that's a about it.

If one where to re imagine FFVII it differently would be more then just a few bits of slow mo thrown in.

 

[Shadow780]

I wonder how they'll pull off Aeris' infamous "This guy are sick" through pretty graphics and voiceovers? :lol

you focus on the wrong things

Spoiler

Cloud cross-dressing and bodybuilder brobath

 

[imtehman]

man, i would like to see the marching in junon with FFXIII graphics though, shit would be awesome :lol

 

[Ploid 3.0]

FF14 is an mmo.

Haven't played WKC but it doesn't look to have the production values or attention to detail that made FF7 so livid at the time.

Dragon Age's production values suck on consoles, has no world (only a point n' click map) and like 4 towns.

Blue Dragon, despite having a world map and all that, doesn't have the technical or artistic stuff a typical Square game (especially FF game) would have either.

Fallout 3, although it has a map and multiple towns and hundreds of npc's with voiced dialogue (who seem to all have the same voice actor/actress anyways) doesn't really have graphics that are that impressive.

Lost Odyssey doesn't have a world map unless you're in a vehicle.

Tales of Vesperia, too, has a world map and a world full of sidequests, but once again, the graphics aren't exactly the greatest (although the art style is amazing).

And none of these games stack up to a Final Fantasy game, or to be more precise, FF13 in terms of graphics. Hell, none of them are as atmospheric as FF7, and in some cases probably lack as much game content.

Well I was replying to "There are current gen games out there, that are HD, that have towns and are detailed nicely." To which you said "What games are these?", that's it. These games I named all have what I'd consider to be detailed towns. I wasn't aware what level you meant. I guess you mean crisis or uncharted's graphical variety and saturation, maybe FF13's but with interactive backgrounds, and more complex map designs with npcs. It can be done though. They may need to simplify the graphics, maybe make it more cartoony, or just give it the style of past SE games with well done designs, and texturing (tales of vespa demo comes to mind, or that Bell game, some rpg with musicians). I think FF13 fits this with the characters, but the background may have been too much to create for them. Crystal Bearer looks awesome and it's on wii. FF14 may be a mmo but it will have detailed towns and I'm sure it will look amazing. Sure you may think Dragon Age was horrible on consoles, but it still looks great to me.

 

[ULTROS!]

you focus on the wrong things

Spoiler

Cloud cross-dressing and bodybuilder brobath

or this

 

[Reginald P. Linux]

Doing entire villages in HD is crazy! No wonder they're not doing a massive world HD MMORPG, either.

 

[toastyToast]

Stop wasting your resources on FMV, I stopped caring about those years ago. Haven't they learned that touched up in-engine graphics can look pretty damn good.

 

[Nairume]

Has Square made a game with subject matter like that in recent years?

The last time SE really tackled a serious subject was probably FFIX with it's shockingly mature take on Vivi's pending death.

 

[Green Mamba]

And a remake should and would remove them. You guys really think they would have Cloud dress in drag or have all the same Trunks humor? No way. The guys who made that game have grown up and so has the medium itself. FFX does not have the same goody things that FFVII has and theres good reason for that.

No thats not what I'm describing at all. Twin Snakes is not a re imagining of MGS. Its a scene by scene remake of MGS1. Oh they put some new style in the cutscenes, that's a about it.

If one where to re imagine FFVII it differently would be more then just a few bits of slow mo thrown in.

A FFVII remake without the weird goofy shit wouldn't be worth it. That's a part of what made FFVII what it is.

Final Fantasy needs to take a step back and take itself less seriously. Maybe having them go back to FFVII would help them remember that.

 

[Vinci]

I'm not denying that there are rpgs with towns or world maps this gen because I've played many that have them. I'm talking about rpgs this gen with that level of interaction with graphics that are on par with say, Uncharted 2, Resident Evil 5, Mass Effect 2, or Final Fantasy 13. All of these games feature small, linear levels and barely any interaction or exploration to speak of.

And yet people are crying for an FF7 remake which retains the same gameplay and exploration elements of the original, with current up to par hd graphics that wouldn't disappoint.

It just seems a tad silly and highly unrealistic.

S-E could always price it at $99. Enough people would probably buy it anyway to help make up the development costs. I'm just suggesting this to appease those with unrealistic expectations, not because it runs parallel with my own viewpoint. This whole linear thing is starting to annoy me, though that's just where things are headed. Oh well.

 

[Rahxephon91]

I actually think some of the content in FF7 is more serious and interesting than most modern jrpgs that aren't SMT ever bring up.

Like the whole terrorist angle? I can't think of any jrpg where do you something like that. I wish in FF7 they didn't paint it so black and white, though and I wish they kept the whole terrorist thing going the whole game. It was an interesting plot device. People in Midgar hated and FEARED you.

Then there's the whole prostitution ring and more. Has Square made a game with subject matter like that in recent years?

Well yeah I think they would keep stuff like that. You could say if they did actually remake the story perhaps they would play up the terriost thing a bit more. You know? A reflection of whats going on in the world today.

The only problem with a remake if you ask me, is that Square would be making it. They would have to be very careful with where they take it. They don't want to anger friends and they can't straw to far if they are actually worried with continuity with Crisis Core and all those other games.

But I mean I think the story would be changed and told way differently in a remake.

A FFVII remake without the weird goofy shit wouldn't be worth it. That's a part of what made FFVII what it is.

Final Fantasy needs to take a step back and take itself less seriously. Maybe having them go back to FFVII would help them remember that.

I was never into all the goofy crap that went on in the game but I'm not saying a remake should have no humor. Thats what plagued Advent Children, beside the stupidity, it was really serious.

I think they would change the humor and make it more with time in not just script but also technology. You know they aren't going to have the character models dancing around in circles.

I feel if you guys where to play FFVII now with no history with it. Theres no way the goofyness would appeal to you.

 

[Cep]

Meh. Nomura can handle it.


....


Yes. I just threw up in my mouth a little.

You should feel bad.

 

[Nairume]

A FFVII remake without the weird goofy shit wouldn't be worth it. That's a part of what made FFVII what it is.

Final Fantasy needs to take a step back and take itself less seriously. Maybe having them go back to FFVII would help them remember that.

If anything, they should revisit IX for that purpose.

 

[7Th]

It's impossible to create a traditional HD JRPG using FFXIII's polished, realistic style. It hasn't been done and it won't be done. There is no real precedent. Versus won't prove anyone wrong, Versus will probably be completely different from what everyone is expecting it to be.

People in Midgar hated and FEARED you.

Well, Cocoon's population hates and fears you in FFXIII.

 

[cjtiger300]

Sounds like a cop out to me.

 

[JaseC]

Because it would still be far too much trouble for it to be worth it.

What makes you think an FFVII Remake endeavour isn't "worth it"?

 

[Vinci]

What makes you think an FFVII Remake endeavour isn't "worth it"?

For the same reason that Wada is considering putting the mainline FF series on hiatus for a while, I suspect. It would just be remarkably expensive and odds are it wouldn't draw very far beyond FF's core fanbase. And that's a bad thing.

 

[Die Squirrel Die]

Sounds like a cop out to me.

I wouldn't be suprised, that or damage control. I have to wonder if Kitase and Toriyama aren't feeling a bit of heat for how long it took to make and then it having a pretty big drop off in sales from the last game.

 

[Bizzyb]

Then make it for Wii or DS. I seriously hate how HD consoles make devs think graphics have to be continuously pushed to the edge bleeding their bank accounts for some sanctimonious idea that it will lead to higher sales and/or more critical acclaim.

 

[Ploid 3.0]

Sometimes I wish people would move on.

I don't even care about a ff7 remake, the main thing I'm interested in is his comment about the reason for FF13's linearity and lack of towns and such. I liked getting lost in ff12's world then finally learning my way around it, and that was just the main city. He's talking as if such worlds may be rare to come by from SE rpgs, or just HD Final Fantasy games that aren't the mmorpg (it requires detailed worlds, can't get laz.. er slack on that), or FF13 VS.

 

[PSGames]

How many towns does FFVII have? Is it really larger than all the HD RPG's we've gotten like Lost Odyssey?

This reads like pre-damage control for putting it on a lower spec console or handheld that has yet to be announced. I don't see how creating FFVII would be anymore expensive than all the other HD games out there like Uncharted, ME2, etc..

 

[Nairume]

What makes you think an FFVII Remake endeavour isn't "worth it"?

Let's start with the simple options first. A portable remake isn't worth it with the game being available on the PSP through PSN. Likewise, this also makes rerendering the game in HD and throwing it up on PSN and XBLA pointless.

All that leaves is a fullblown remake, which would require them to go back and pretty much completely rebuild the game from scratch. Couple that with the game's size, they could probably just make a new game in the amount of time it'd take them to remake it. All this for something that really wouldn't sell nearly as well as the fanbase wants to believe.

 

[Vinci]

Uncharted 1 is a 6 hour game.

Uncharted 2 is a 12 hour game.

Mass Effect is a 15 hour game stretched to 25 hours if you do everything.

Mass Effect 2 is a 30 hour game.

And yet all of these games feature linear corridor levels and barely any exploration at all. They're also heavily scripted.

There is no comparison.

While we're asking for insane projects that will never happen, I'd like a remake of Planescape Torment.

 

[Tellaerin]

Then make it for Wii or DS.

Or PSP. A remake with visuals on par with Crisis Core would be fantastic, IMO.

 

[Dra-Q]

Well, Final Fantasy VIIR for DS looks even more realistic now.

 

[DevilWillcry]

Apparently SE has shitty programmers. That's by far the stupidist reason to ignore a remake I've ever heard. SE: "Sorry guys it's too hard, we just aren't up to the challenge of being the cutting edge dev we used to be." SE what a joke you have become.

 

[Vinci]

Shenmue 1+2!!!!!

No offense meant, tastes vary, but I really hated Shenmue. Granted I haven't played it in a while, so my tastes might have changed since then. But add in the fact that I see games like Shenmue as at least partially responsible for the mess we're in nowadays, and yeah... not a fan. Sorry.

 

[Bizzyb]

Yes.



:lol :lol

Uncharted 1 is a 6 hour game.

Uncharted 2 is a 12 hour game.

Mass Effect is a 15 hour game stretched to 25 hours if you do everything.

Mass Effect 2 is a 30 hour game.

And yet all of these games feature linear corridor levels and barely any exploration at all. They're also heavily scripted.

There is no comparison. In fact, ME1 suffered from this very thing: they tried to create this game with tons of places to visit, and things to do, and all the tasks and planets ended up being clones of each other because they spent so much time getting the engine right. :lol

This is the kind of thing that makes you realize how true it is. Sad but true. At least we have the complete opposite with games like Assassins Creed and Grand Theft Auto. Still, I realize that FFVII was an entirely different beast as far as different places to see and explore.

Now that I think about it, All the HD era did was shrink down scope, fooling us with epic set pieces, while increasing the detail

 

[Vinci]

Now that I think about it, All the HD era did was shrink down scope, fooling us with epic set pieces, while increasing the detail

The HD era didn't do that; it just made what was already happening more blatantly apparent.

 

[imtehman]

:lol :lol

I'm out of this thread. I didn't realize gamers were so ignorant of their hobby or how games are made. :lol

it is truly ironic that SE are actually the opposite. they go out of thier way to make sure ports are identical, thier localization and lip syncing is amazing, and thier budgets are probably teh biggest out of most games, but they still get shit from guys like the one you quoted.

 

[Brofist]

I'm not denying that there are rpgs with towns or world maps this gen because I've played many that have them. I'm talking about rpgs this gen with that level of interaction with graphics that are on par with say, Uncharted 2, Resident Evil 5, Mass Effect 2, or Final Fantasy 13. All of these games feature small, linear levels and barely any interaction or exploration to speak of.

And yet people are crying for an FF7 remake which retains the same gameplay and exploration elements of the original, with current up to par hd graphics that wouldn't disappoint.

It just seems a tad silly and highly unrealistic.

It's been a while since I've beaten FFVII, but when you say interaction and exploration what do you mean exactly. Going through a fairly linear town and talking to NPCs?

Those games you mentioned may be smaller in scope, but they at least contain some real interaction. Enviorments that change and deform based on gameplay. Environments you can actually climb on with some level of interaction.

Everything in FFVII was very static, how hard could it be to reproduce with current assets?

With the PSN release selling incredibly well it's no wonder they don't feel they need to bother when they can milk easy money.

 

[PSGames]

Yes.



:lol :lol

Uncharted 1 is a 6 hour game.

Uncharted 2 is a 12 hour game.

Mass Effect is a 15 hour game stretched to 25 hours if you do everything.

Mass Effect 2 is a 30 hour game.

And yet all of these games feature linear corridor levels and barely any exploration at all. They're also heavily scripted.

There is no comparison. In fact, ME1 suffered from this very thing: they tried to create this game with tons of places to visit, and things to do, and all the tasks and planets ended up being clones of each other because they spent so much time getting the engine right. :lol

I'm really curious how big would you say FF7 is? How many different towns are there? Yeah Uncharted 2 is a 12 hour game but that says nothing about the variety and detail of the environments. Kitase is talking from a pure graphics perspective. GTA4 is another example. Huge open world game with tons of detail.

 

[Vinci]

I'm really curious how big would you say FF7 is? How many different towns are there? Yeah Uncharted 2 is a 12 hour game but that says nothing about the variety and detail of the environments. Kitase is talking from a pure graphics perspective. GTA4 is another example. Huge open world game with tons of detail.

Here's the world map: http://www.ffshrine.org/ff7/ff7worldmap.jpg.

 

[H_Prestige]

I actually think some of the content in FF7 is more serious and interesting than most modern jrpgs that aren't SMT ever bring up.

Like the whole terrorist angle? I can't think of any jrpg where do you something like that. I wish in FF7 they didn't paint it so black and white, though and I wish they kept the whole terrorist thing going the whole game. It was an interesting plot device. People in Midgar hated and FEARED you.

Then there's the whole prostitution ring and more. Has Square made a game with subject matter like that in recent years?

Too much good stuff in the original FFVII just wouldn't fly with the current Square. Just compare the game with the rest of the compilation that came after.

An FFVII remake or re-imagining, on any system, would suck balls.

 

[AwakenedCloud]

Stop wasting your resources on FMV, I stopped caring about those years ago. Haven't they learned that touched up in-engine graphics can look pretty damn good.

Seriously. They just do everything in MGS4 style and save themselves the money of making a Pixar mini-film.

 

[Tellaerin]

Midgar went from being full of life to the most boring and lifeless place ever in CC. Imagine replicating all of FF7 with CC's engine, it'd be plain as fuck to look at.

BZZT.

I think that was more down to art direction than technology, though. That engine was able to push some nice environments and character models on the PSP. The real trick would be recapturing the 'feel' Midgar had in FF VII. That's a crapshoot in any kind of remake/reenvisioning - you just have to hope they manage to nail the atmosphere of the original.

 

[DidntKnowJack]

Going all the way back to the gist of the OP...

I'd just assume they put their resources into new games anyway. I know I'm probably in the minority here, but I really don't need/want a FF VII remake. Never have.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

yes, technically games are shorter these days, but I wouldn't really mourn the loss of the 'epic' games like FFVII.

They are products of a time where filler was the norm. Yes, you played for longer and maybe you saw more environments, but the amount of attention put into each section of the game was significantly less than games nowadays. Playing FFVII for the first time recently, I was surprised at how much filler there was, or how many sections there were that were that seemed to be implemented without much care. Yes, you could explore, but it was mostly superficial. That's part of the charm, sure, but it's not something I miss.

It's not so much a loss as it is a trade off. I much prefer it this way.

What I do miss are all the cool unlockables like the hidden summons and the like.

 

[PSGames]

Here's the world map: http://www.ffshrine.org/ff7/ff7worldmap.jpg.

Most of those places are small little areas not entire towns. And either way Lost Odyssey compares quite favorably in number of places to go.
FF7:

LO:

 

[Brofist]

What kind of interaction are you expecting from a traditional jrpg?

FF7 features quite a few places that allows for exploration. Dungeons in the sea, hidden caves, hidden places you can only find with certain abilities (re: different types of chocobo), hidden characters, hidden skills, hidden bosses and even a town you can go out of your way to avoid because it's entirely optional and contains its own sidequests.

Very few modern jrpgs offer as much exploration.

You kinda made me want to go back and play it again now, forgot there was that much going on in FFVII.

 

[Vinci]

yes, technically games are shorter these days, but I wouldn't really mourn the loss of the 'epic' games like FFVII.

They are products of a time where filler was the norm. Yes, you played for longer and maybe you saw more environments, but the amount of attention put into each section of the game was significantly less than games nowadays. Playing FFVII for the first time recently, I was surprised at how much filler there was, or how many sections there were that were that seemed to be implemented without much care. That's part of the charm, sure, but it's not something I miss.

It's not so much a loss as it is a trade off. I much prefer it this way.

...

I'm sorry, but maybe we played very different games in the past... but the further back I go in my gaming history, I see more and more attention to content. In fact, I didn't stop beating every game I played till the PSX era - when, honestly, things started to feel dull in many titles. That has progressed to the point where a heavy-content title like Demon's Soul is a damn niche title that is grossly unique rather than 'just a normal game.'

 

[Nairume]

Most of those places are small little areas not entire towns. And either way Lost Odyssey compares quite favorably in number of places to go.
FF7:
http://www.ffshrine.org/ff7/ff7worldmap.jpg[IMG]


[B]LO:[/B]

[IMG]http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b34/scytherage/lostodysseyworldmap.jpg[IMG][/QUOTE]
A lot of those locations on the LO map are just alternate entrances/exits. As much as I loved LO, there's really no denying that it's a smaller game in comparison to most PS1-era RPGs, FF7 included. Though, it is still large for a game of this generation.

 

[LiK]

very hard my ass.