FairFriend
Member
EDIT: duh, sorry for the double post, I though the thread wasi going faster...
What hint are these creators meant to take? Seems like Beaton's covering her bases, mocking a bunch of different people, and not really saying anything.
What kind of fucked up argument is this? "I can sexualize my female characters as much as I want as long as I pretend to have a reason to do so". I mean, I love the metal gear series to death, and admittedly it gets juvenile at point, but I didn't think Kojima was so out of touch.
baby got background? ...
Can't he just admit he likes making characters look sexy and attractive? There's nothing wrong with that! That's a simple yet perfectly fine reason for it. In fact, I'd even say he doesn't need a reason for it at all and could just put in whatever he wants, and people who like that sort of thing (myself included), would be fine with it.
But with this, he's just setting himself up for Quiet 2.0. Making silly excuses that'll make people more closely look at the character which will almost inevitably result in this backfiring against him.
I personally don't play his games because of characters like Quiet. At the end of the day, evelopers are going to create whatever content they want for their games. And the only true voice you have as a gamer is to vote with your dollars.
He's a great games designer, imo, but MGS4 onwards seems to be "sexy first, story later" and even then its so trite and poorly done. Like Quiet's backstory is MGS-style intriguing and cheesy on its own but her design and the way the camera treats her betrays any pretense that she's more than just fapbait.
Im almost interested if Shinkawa ever looks at Kojima sideways, wondering why he can't do a Meryl or EVA again.
No, that's me waiting for you to stop generalising and putting every single japanese developer ever in the same basket of being sexist or making sexist games. Jesus Christ.
I love seeing attractive women in games. No problems with games being like TV/movies/music industry, fllled with good looking people that work out.
i'm glad i don't play any of this creep's games
Me: *sees thread title* oh boy, I can't wait to dive in and talk about the endemic objectification of female characters in gaming!
Me: *comes into thread*
GAF, I thought you were better than this. I feel like I've wandered into a Reddit thread by mistake.
You've never worked on a art project in a collaborative setting for a single moment in your life if you even remotely think this is true. Also lol at modern day puritans. I like how the litmus test for how much someone enjoys sex is obviously dependent on how much they enjoy being pandered to via virtual non existent tits. Yes, it you don't like overly sexualization virtual women then oblviously you just MUST be some sort of Puritan. You don't realize how stupid and pathetic that sounds?The only thing you can possibly do wrong with your art is allow someone else to dictate what you do with it.
Ignore the modern-day Puritans and just make your original vision a reality, Kojimbo.
Lookin' forward to it.
Let's have a quiz, is this because of Trump or because of bishop?Me: *sees thread title* oh boy, I can't wait to dive in and talk about the endemic objectification of female characters in gaming!
Me: *comes into thread*
GAF, I thought you were better than this. I feel like I've wandered into a Reddit thread by mistake.
Let's have a quiz, is this because of Trump or because of bishop?
These are also the same circular arguments that have been going on since Quiet was first revealed, years ago.I think its because the title is misleading as its attributing a non-existent quote mixed in with 3 words said out of context to Kojima thus creating a click bait title.
I think its because the title is misleading as its attributing a non-existent quote mixed in with 3 words said out of context to Kojima thus creating a click bait title.
I think its because the title is misleading as its attributing a non-existent quote mixed in with 3 words said out of context to Kojima thus creating a click bait title.
What about the quoted part in the OP? That matches up with the title
It is commonly assumed that sex and violence sell. However, we predicted that sex and violence would
have the opposite effect. We based our predictions on the evolution and emotional arousal theoretical
framework, which states that people are evolutionarily predisposed to attend to emotionally arousing cues
such as sex and violence. Thus, sexual and violent cues demand more cognitive resources than nonsexual
and nonviolent cues. Using this framework, we meta-analyzed the effects of sexual media, violent media,
sexual ads, and violent ads on the advertising outcomes of brand memory, brand attitudes, and buying
intentions. The meta-analysis included 53 experiments involving 8,489 participants. Analyses found that
brands advertised in violent media content were remembered less often, evaluated less favorably, and less
likely to be purchased than brands advertised in nonviolent, nonsexual media. Brands advertised using
sexual ads were evaluated less favorably than brands advertised using nonviolent, nonsexual ads. There
were no significant effects of sexual media on memory or buying intentions. There were no significant
effects of sexual or violent ads on memory or buying intentions. As intensity of sexual ad content
increased, memory, attitudes, and buying intentions decreased. When media content and ad content were
congruent (e.g., violent ad in a violent program), memory improved and buying intentions increased.
Violence and sex never helped and often hurt ad effectiveness. These results support the evolution and
emotional arousal framework. Thus, advertisers should consider the effects of media content, ad content,
content intensity, and congruity to design and place more effective ads.
...a new report from the American Psychological Association (APA) found there is insufficient research to support that link. It found that there is evidence showing the games increase aggression but not enough to demonstrate that playing the games lead to criminal behavior or delinquency....
Ohio State University's Brad J. Bushman, who has done extensive work on violent media including games and aggression, said he disagreed with the APA conclusion that there is no link between violent video games and violent behavior, although he acknowledged it is difficult to prove a link in an experimental setting.
Oh no, teens in high school are exposed to sex and the naked human body. The horror, sign the petition, save the children blah blah.we urge you to sign WITHOUT watching this graphic clip from USA Network's Satisfaction, we include it so you can see for yourself some of the sexual content that the entertainment industry thinks is acceptable for a 14 year old.
After consecutive flops in terms of writing women do you really have high hopes for the writing in DS in that regard? It would honestly be genuinely surprising to get a serious mature game that goes in line with the advertising and without the juvenile shit.Like I said. 3 words quoted out of context.
The first female character of DS hasnt even been revealed lol.
While that dude's history with violence in media is telling, I don't think he was disingenuously conducting studies about whether not sex actually sells. The advertising industry is different in the sense that the women in advertising at least have something to do with sex when being objectified i.e. a product in a commercial depicting an intimate setting. It wasn't just one study posted ITT btw, others posted multiple studies. Again, the history of this medium says otherwise. The funny thing about the "sex sells" argument is that often times, (99% of the time), actual sex isn't even involved, dehumanization and objectification however, is. So again, sex doesn't actually sell, and frankly, objectification rarely leads to success stories either considering how niche games solely based on objectification are and how increasingly niche the stagnating games industry in Japan is becoming. And you realize that teens in high school constantly being subjected to objectified depictions of media end up viewing women like that irl? You realize there's a clear correlation between the constant sexism and misogyny in this industry and the objectification of women? That's undeniable compared to whether or not contextualized interactive violence ,(that is becoming less and less encouraged overtime as more games introduce non lethal options as well as turn down gore content despite increased fidelity), has an effect on an individual.Please stop reposting this terrible study.
Did you read what it says?
A video game is not a brand advertised in violent media. A video game is not a brand advertised in sexual ads. A brand is Tropicana "premium orange juice." A brand is Volkswagen and its reputation for safe vehicles. You are not ineffectively experiencing a brand via playing a game and encountering a bosomy NPC in an action game and feeling it's off-putting. The findings in this study are not applicable to the titallation of videos games, shows and movies drawing their audiences in and bringing them back over and over. In fact, services like Netflix have discovered that sex does sell due to data that shows viewers fast forward to, rewind and rewatch scenes of nudity and sex. Violence and sex sells when it comes to media consumption, which, again, is not about brand recollection.
Furthermore, do you know anything about the authors of this study? Because I question its integrity and that its author didn't premptively have a conclusion and then work backwards to prove it and bolster his media presence in his niche. Brad J. Bushman is a fearmonger of sex and violence in entertainment. Look at this shit and tell me with a straight face he's credible and unbiased (some of the stuff he has posted, supports and retweeted):
Look at the creepy, blood-dripping scare letters in the presentation slide behind him:
https://mobile.twitter.com/mjbeers1/status/757980026734338048/photo/1
This guy believes that all forms of venting, including some proven activities like hitting a bag, are ineffective and increase aggression, based on his own study.
https://youtu.be/ASKXG4kf4n4
http://www-personal.umich.edu/~bbushman/PSPB02.pdf
http://www.news-press.com/story/lif...yth-nancy-loughlin-yoga-living-well/84982840/
A common thread through his work is that violent video games are bad and lead to violence (despite any actual sufficient evidence of such claims).
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/brad-...and-theft-auto-v-for-christmas_b_4440477.html
More of his shitty research and conclusions about games
http://www.ithp.org/articles/violentvideogames.html
Perfectly line with his bizarre anti-video game crusading, he disagrees with the APA that while video games lead to some increased feelings of aggression (and there's a counter article further down that even the APA's conclusion is flawed), they did not find that games do lead to real life violent acts. Why does he disagree? Obvious, because it runs counter to his life's work, his own personally conducted biased studies and personal ideologies about media consumption and aggression.
http://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2015/08/violent-video-games.aspx
This counter-argument summarizes how APA and guys like Bushman do poor research, omit studies in their meta anaylyses that dobt agree with their predetermined conclusions, and conduct poor studies to reach these self fulfilling answers.
http://pixelkin.org/2015/10/12/a-ps...nt-apa-report-on-video-game-violence-studies/
And here's something he retweeted which I think points to his weirdly conservative sentiments.
http://support.parentstv.org/p/dia/action3/common/public/?action_KEY=15921&killorg=True
Oh no, teens in high school are exposed to sex and the naked human body. The horror, sign the petition, save the children blah blah.
This is a person who thinks overall that sex and violence in media are bad, period. He has a boner for fearmongering and a major incentive due to the years he has devoted to his career to prove at all costs that his theories are correct. I regard turning to someone like this for proof that "sex is bad and doesn't sell" as no better than looking to a teen abstinence expert to help guide and retool a school's sex ed program.
And to cite a real world example, I can find several "credible" studies that eggs are a perfect super food, great for everyone, etc. There's maybe some truth and health benefits. But you can dig a little and find all these studies are biased and overstating their findings, if not lying sometimes, because they are indeed funded by the American Egg Board which has a vested interest in reaching a specific conclusion (this is real, not hypothetical btw).
With that in mind... please, stop reposting this one dumb study from this questionable individual who despises video games and makes a living vilifying sex and violence in entertainment across the board. This particular study doesn't apply to games and frankly the person who conducted the meta analysis has iffy motives and comes across being biased as hell.
While that dude's history with violence in media is telling, I don't think he was disingenuously conducting studies about whether not sex actually sells. The advertising industry is different in the sense that the women in advertising at least have something to do with sex when being objectified i.e. a product in a commercial depicting an intimate setting. It wasn't just one study posted ITT btw, others posted multiple studies. Again, the history of this medium says otherwise. The funny thing about the "sex sells" argument is that often times, (99% of the time), actual sex isn't even involved, dehumanization and objectification however, is. So again, sex doesn't actually sell, and frankly, objectification rarely leads to success stories either considering how niche games solely based on objectification are and how increasingly niche the stagnating games industry in Japan is becoming. And you realize that teens in high school constantly being subjected to objectified depictions of media end up viewing women like that irl? You realize there's a clear correlation between the constant sexism and misogyny in this industry and the objectification of women? That's undeniable compared to whether or not contextualized interactive violence ,(that is becoming less and less encouraged overtime as more games introduce non lethal options as well as turn down gore content despite increased fidelity), has an effect on an individual.
Will do, honestly had zero idea about the violence studies.I'm not disagreeing with your overall sentiments.
I just think it's clear that this Bushman guy is indeed disingenuous with strong motivations that guide his work and compel him to force his meta-analysis of handpicked studies into the logical conclusion he sought in the first place. And I've seen it used on GAF now several times as unshakeable proof that sex in media doesn't sell when that's not even the focus of this study -- it's whether or not advertised brands wrapped in a layer of unrelated sexual imagery can sell and their message effectively be recalled by the audience.
I'm not disagreeing that niche games based around sex don't sell. I agree, that's obvious hardly anyone buys that stuff. I'm saying this data isn't relevant or in support of that statement; use better, relevant studies.
If games were like TV/movies/music, there'd be a lot less sexualised and objectified female character designs.I love seeing attractive women in games. No problems with games being like TV/movies/music industry, fllled with good looking people that work out.
After consecutive flops in terms of writing women do you really have high hopes for the writing in DS in that regard? It would honestly be genuinely surprising to get a serious mature game that goes in line with the advertising and without the juvenile shit.
Not this time, Kojima... just outright admit if you're gonna sexualise the characters... don't hide behind a shield of white armour.
You think if people noticed her "pretty nice story" that they would stop criticizing her design?She actually had a pretty nice story and a fantastic ending.
Most people seem to be too busy bitching about her design to notice.
Not this time, Kojima... just outright admit if you're gonna sexualise the characters... don't hide behind a shield of white armour.
I think the idea is that critics tend to place a disproportionate amount of weight on the appearance of female characters, often at the expense of success in more substantial facets of those characters.You think if people noticed her "pretty nice story" that they would stop criticizing her design?
I really hope he doesn't fill Death Stranding with a bunch overly sexualised characters. The way Quiet is presented in MGSV was pretty tacky and embarrassing and put me off buying the game.
Thats about as "equal" as me creating a mayo loving yuppie character for every Aunt Jemima I have in my bookFor all the high esteem he's held in, and given his obvious talents, deep down he can't help displaying his baser, shallower insticts. The guy can't help it. I fully expect him to continue in the same direction. It'll be interesting if he decides to ebrace equality and present a male character in the same way. I'd be really interested to see what response that would get.
I'm sorry, Kojima. You're a dinosaur, whose penchant for titilation, will bring your games down, and you'll be left on the scrapheap of history as a creator who couldn't trandscend his own inner flaws. Rip.
Carrying out strawmans for a persecution complex isn't exactly helping your argument. Since no one considered you a misogynist. You're taking this personal. Do you agree or disagree on the sexism between the frequency of sexualised female character designs versus male character designs?
I love you kojima but please, I don't rike it
For all the high esteem he's held in, and given his obvious talents, deep down he can't help displaying his baser, shallower insticts. The guy can't help it. I fully expect him to continue in the same direction. It'll be interesting if he decides to ebrace equality and present a male character in the same way. I'd be really interested to see what response that would get.
I'm sorry, Kojima. You're a dinosaur, whose penchant for titilation, will bring your games down, and you'll be left on the scrapheap of history as a creator who couldn't trandscend his own inner flaws. Rip.
Not this time, Kojima... just outright admit if you're gonna sexualise the characters... don't hide behind a shield of white armour.
You bumped the thread after two weeks just for this?"If I objectify any women I'll be sure to make it contrived."
Fuck off.
Not this time, Kojima... just outright admit if you're gonna sexualise the characters... don't hide behind a shield of white armour.