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LTTP: F-Zero GX

M

Model 500

Member
mangaroo said:
Comparing f-zero and wipeout speed is very difficult - arguably f-zero is faster but that doesn't make it more challenging/rewarding - more exact control/placement required in wipeout and under the faster speeds it is just as if not more challenging. Not mentioning zone mode either..
Click to expand...

I disagree on the controls, personally I love both styles (the heavy response and air brake mastery of WipEout and the smooth airbrake adjustments combined with the split-second twitch precision of FZGX), but to say that more exact control is needed in WipEout is a bit puzzling, to me it's just the opposite, and I've mastered the fastest speed settings in WipEout 1 and 2097 (I have Fury too, but it just hasn't interested me as much with all the other games around, I do think it's great fun though). Just hop on to SOLS (even with the default Blue Falcon) and find me the same sense of speed / urgency and precision control in any WipEout track and I'm more than interested. That's not to say that WipEout has no sense of speed or urgency, I think it does, and that's why I love the series, in my experience, it's just not at the same level (then again, what is?), but I'm very interested in seeing your examples.

I'd say that F-Zero GX has overall a more uneven track selection than the WipEout series, but when it comes to the hits, it's F-Zero GX for me. I'm mostly a Time Trial gamer.
 
M

Model 500

Member
One more thing, we all like different games for different and / or overlapping reasons, and that's all good. I don't mean to convince anyone to adopt my preferences, but I am interested in finding out new things about Fury for example, that's the main reason I'm asking for examples and suggestions.
 
M

mangaroo

Banned
I may be unable to give exact comparisons as it has been a few years since I played an f-zero game properly but was mainly replying as further backup to Vorg quoting chiablo:

Having played the hell out of this game on the Gamecube, I wonder how anybody could get any excitement out of playing Wipeout HD. Wipeout has absolutely no sense of speed, F-Zero GX is so fast that if you blink, you will crash... it reminds me of the old Genesis vs. SNES commercials:
Click to expand...

Drawing from wipeout in recent years, I can say that on A/A+/Zone it gets to the same point where I don't blink and just let the tears flow down my face - when keeping to my line. I agree with Pylon_Trooper's remark about the physics affecting the speed and gameplay.

Not to slag off f-zero at all, the sense of speed in f-zero is insane but the flexibility in control is not the same. This is not obvious to people who haven't played wipeout, especially the newer ones - there is a lot more to the physics that makes the game feel close to a future racing simulator. Carefully manoeuvring the vehicle as it speeds down twisted, sharp corners means you have to be fast and accurate in predicting the movement of the ship and compensating accordingly which is where most of my focus goes to while playing. I was really impressed with the video he linked but it seems some of you lot weren't and just felt that the difference was in the control - not just the speed but managing to turn the craft as necessary AT those speeds.

My favourite track for quick and easy speed thrills (not my video):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eq56MoBXYpQ

Here's some impressive zone gameplay which lets the few players capable of it, reach much faster speeds than in other parts of the game:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSJ8TowUoW0&feature=related
 
M

Model 500

Member
I haven't played 2048 and never liked the barrel roll mechanics in Fury, too distracting from the things I find fun in a racing game. That vid doesn't really do it for me, I do understand the mechanics of WipEout and love them. Different styles for different moments and moods. When it comes to pure thrills and pixel perfect controls I just don't see how anything from the WO series beats this (another great SOLS vid):

http://youtu.be/Aop9B9367n4
 
M

mangaroo

Banned
There isn't anything quite like that in wipeout. I don't expect there really can't be - the momentum from that sort of speed in wipeout would be impossible to control! (except for the 10 or 20 players that manage past 150 zones...) Definitely would be nice to forget about the strict handling and enjoy the pure speed every now and then, but I don't plan on ever really discarding wipeout.

Zone does take about 10-15 minutes to get going into the "mach" speeds but it can go by pretty quickly. I think they don't include the faster speeds in the game just because most will have difficulty enough navigating the craft smoothly at A+ speed.
 
M

Model 500

Member
mangaroo said:
There isn't anything quite like that in wipeout. I don't expect there really can't be - the momentum from that sort of speed in wipeout would be impossible to control! (except for the 10 or 20 players that manage past 150 zones...)
Click to expand...

Of course, different mechanics for different purposes and end results.

...but I don't plan on ever really discarding wipeout..
Click to expand...

Me neither, love them both for different reasons.
 
M

mangaroo

Banned
Definitely, all of these vids makes me really want an updated portable gamecube sort of like what they did with the vita. (PC is bust atm). Or hopefully will at least pump out a sequel for the WiiU. I remember reading something about f-zero being saved for a more powerful console as it is the sort of title that would really benefit from upping the graphics.
 
M

Model 500

Member
That would be a bit surprising since FZGX runs smoothly at 60 fps already. Imo, it looks very good as well. Better graphics are always a bonus of course, I just hope they stick with the locked 60 fps, imo that's way more important in a racing game than extra polygons, etc.
 
M

Madao

Member
Model 500 said:
That would be a bit surprising since FZGX runs smoothly at 60 fps already. Imo, it looks very good as well. Better graphics are always a bonus of course, I just hope they stick with the locked 60 fps, imo that's way more important in a racing game than extra polygons, etc.
Click to expand...

even F-Zero X on the N64 runs at perfect 60 fps. i think they understand prefectly what's important for the series.
 
A

AlexSmash

Member
in my opinion with ssbm and fgx nintendo made their best and most complex fighting + racing game. great gamy and arcady feel to both of them.

ssbb lost that touch and fzero never came back.

edit:

i snake in fgx- but not to beat time trials.
i did beat the game 100% with or without snaking.
but the feeling of speed while snaking perfectly through stages is just mofoin awesome..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvBxxFJ0YUs&feature=related

srsly. its not cheating. fighting in a different weight class isnt cheating.
 
M

Model 500

Member
AlexSmash said:
i snake in fgx- but not to beat time trials.
i did beat the game 100% with or without snaking.
but the feeling of speed while snaking perfectly through stages is just mofoin awesome..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvBxxFJ0YUs&feature=related

srsly. its not cheating. fighting in a different weight class isnt cheating.
Click to expand...


I hear you, snaking is something I just haven't got into, tbh I haven't really given it a good chance because it just doesn't appeal to me physically or visually, simple as that. Sometimes I like the smooth and precise sailing of something like Mobius and sometimes the rush of tracks like SOLS, the view I have of snaking just doesn't appeal to me at this point.
 
C

captmcblack

Member
I dunno if I can say Wipeout is slow, or even that much slower compared to F-Zero GX.

...but I know that I never felt threatened by the speed in Wipeout like I do in F-Zero GX. The F-Zero games in general make you feel like speed really kills - like nothing is faster or more dangerous than going at eye-melting speed - and it's exhilarating. I am more afraid of the other racers in Wipeout games than I am by the speed at which I am racing.
 
Cygnus X-1

Cygnus X-1

Member
captmcblack said:
I dunno if I can say Wipeout is slow, or even that much slower compared to F-Zero GX.

...but I know that I never felt threatened by the speed in Wipeout like I do in F-Zero GX. The F-Zero games in general make you feel like speed really kills - like nothing is faster or more dangerous than going at eye-melting speed - and it's exhilarating. I am more afraid of the other racers in Wipeout games than I am by the speed at which I am racing.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I also have the same feeling. You need Jedi-like reflexes to remain on track.
 
A

anotherVegan

Member
Easily the best racing game of the last generation. Typically, I can't get into racers. But this one stuck with me and blew my socks off. Great graphics, simple, tight and responsive controls, a challenge curve that ramps up considerably at the end, and oh gawd that speed. So fast.

What is this I don't even
 
A

Alex Connolly

Member
RooMHM said:
Truth hurts. Wipeout is slow as a turtle compared to F-Zero.
Click to expand...

Gawd it must be so damn lonely at a solo pissing contest.

Anyway, I also miss Extreme-G. That was a classic, too. Wheels on the ground, sure, but I'd put XG3 up there with WipEout 2048 in, of all things, the sound design department. Great evocation of inertia simply via the way it handled sound dampening, volume etc. Pouring one out for XG.
 
M

mangaroo

Banned
I used to play a lot of extreme-g, more than wipeout and f-zero during the early years. It wasn't a bad racer actually, might try and pick that up again on ebay if i've lost it.

Of course f-zero focusses on speed more than wipeout. Just take a look at the difference in track designs. Wipeout does focus on the piloting (physics) more, which makes it fast enough if you see what I'm saying.
They just check out the various speeds that are capable of being controlled with the given game's mechanics. I'm sure it is insanely tough with both at the higher levels - and you definitely do get that rush with wipeout that you are being pushed to your limits with the higher speeds (rapier/phantom or A/A+) - it's definitely no "granny" task to control your ship around the corners they've set up at those speeds.

Btw that snaking video, was he going faster than normal? Seemed like the swaying was slowing him down no?
 
Cuban Legend

Cuban Legend

Member
uchihasasuke said:
i dunno about wipeout but F-Zero X and GX has some rather unique physics that you need to know and understand to get the most out of the games and have the best speeds.
also, X is harder than GX

see:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqMbVITOYgg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bk_TDrjZRaA
Click to expand...
ijNhEDQEJEm0x.png

DAT DRIFTING PHYSICS:
iNzrEwKx04325.png
 
Chuckpebble

Chuckpebble

Member
Model 500 said:
I haven't played 2048 and never liked the barrel roll mechanics in Fury, too distracting from the things I find fun in a racing game. That vid doesn't really do it for me, I do understand the mechanics of WipEout and love them. Different styles for different moments and moods. When it comes to pure thrills and pixel perfect controls I just don't see how anything from the WO series beats this (another great SOLS vid):

http://youtu.be/Aop9B9367n4
Click to expand...

Ah, shift boosting. Where you get a speed boost from momentarily leaving the track and then using L or R to return. Lateral Shift is the best course to do that on because of all the really handy 90 degree chicanes. My brain melts after attempting 2.
 
N

NZA36

Neo Member
I hope a Wii U sequel still has all the cinematic story parts. I normally don't care about game stories at all, but F-Zero had a fun world around the races.
 
D

Dave Long

Banned
Thread resurrection...

Listening to the soundtrack for GX the last couple days. I don't think it can be overstated just how incredible it is that they composed themes for every one of these friggin' nearly inconsequential characters that drive the hoversleds in F-Zero!

This game is probably the best SEGA game that SEGA never published themselves. I mean, holy fuck is this thing a package. And it's just a racing game.

*sigh* Sequel please. Nintendo, please go pry our savior Nagoshi away from Yakuza for a year. That's truly not up for Nagoshiation.
 
D

Dave Long

Banned
Hilarious! That's exactly what was playing when I read your post! It's definitely one of the best!

I love Blood Falcon... song sticks in my head every time.
 
L

Lambtron

Unconfirmed Member
I've been on a huge GameCube kick lately, and I'm going to buy another Cube to hook up to my big ass tube TV. This is going to be the first thing I play.
 
F

Frankenstrat

Member
Freaking hell, I wish there was an AX machine somewhere so I could unlock those tracks without actually doing it the hard way. Guess I just need to step it up!
 
Ü

Übermatik

Member
Am I the only one who wants to see a less over the top-environment F-ZERO and a more exotic-environment F-ZERO? Let me explain - less races taking place inside a huge casino and more races taking place in and around a huge ancient temple nestled in the heart of a weird, alien jungle. I suppose I want it to lose it's 'arcade' feel, and progress more as a game into the realms of focusing on technology, characters and environments?

Like, keep the mad, balls to the wall high-octane racing scenarios and tough as nails competition, but lose the craziness in favor of more... craziness?

I want it more modern, less 90's garish if you get me. Give Pico a make over, make him look more menacing. And lose all those ridiculously over the top and poorly designed characters like Super Arrow - or at least redesign him so he doesn't look so fucking stupid. The ones in between like Goroh can stay, but with more consideration put into his design and attitude. keep his bursts of anger and japanese origins, but lose the fucking sunglasses and stupid outfit.

Perhaps I want the game to be more 'western', and in many ways that's not likely to happen. I can imagine a lot of GAF disagreeing with me too, but eh, this is what I'd like to see.

I also want to see more emphasis on the health of the machines - deterioration, for example - a higher risk of death through contact etc. I want spectacular crashes.

Oh, and make this the music style:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsVEjD5rcvI

Can you imagine starting the race with this kind of intro? Damn, it would be SO good. (minus the voice samples, mind).


So yeah, rant over. If the next game isn't like this, I'll still buy it, and make my own game later instead. Yeeeah.
 
D

Dave Long

Banned
F-Zero is essentially a hovercraft version of Speed Racer. Losing its Japanese roots would kind of defeat the purpose. You could just call it Wipeout then.
 
Jeeves

Jeeves

Member
Yeah...to me me F-Zero's all about high-speed cheesiness.

It'll never happen but I'd love to see the GX team reunite to put out a WiiU sequel featuring perfect 30-player online races. F-Zero WX (UX?(WUX?(DeWUX??))).

The other day I was looking at the manual for the first game. There's a neat little comic in there, just as cheesy as you can imagine.
 
D

daakusedo

Member
I played f-zero x a bit yesterday, I know it less than gx but just replaying the first cup was great and death race made me smiling, sadistically, I think...
Then to be sure about my feeling, I played gx, first cup, standard, and I wasn't really satisfied, the cars being really light, so to be more than fair I did then the third cup but really, f-zero x has great driving and a good sense of weight.

When I tried driving in the opposite direction in death race for crushing the last cars, I wasn't expecting the thing to be so intense, that was not effective at all but cool just for the experience.
 
K

kittens

Unconfirmed Member
Easily my favorite racing game and favorite Gamecube game. I want a follow up so bad.
 
M

megashock5

Member
uchihasasuke said:
also, X is harder than GX
Click to expand...

Seriously? I was thinking of getting it on VC. I had GX for a while, but it was so freaking hard it made me throw my Wavebird, therefore it had to go. I was hoping X wasn't quite as brutal.

And I played every WipEout game from the first up through Pure, which I wouldn't consider easy.

My biggest problem is that with WipEout, even if I screwed up and went off the track I got to keep racing. I wouldn't win, but I got to finish.

GX, if you went off the track you were done. No finishing the race (or the series if I remember correctly) so I never even got to see some of the tracks.

I just don't have enough free time to dedicate to mastering a game like that, no matter how good it is. Full time job + kids in various activities just doesn't allow for it.
 
B

Bulzeeb

Member
Ubermatik said:
Am I the only one who wants to see a less over the top-environment F-ZERO and a more exotic-environment F-ZERO? Let me explain - less races taking place inside a huge casino and more races taking place in and around a huge ancient temple nestled in the heart of a weird, alien jungle. I suppose I want it to lose it's 'arcade' feel, and progress more as a game into the realms of focusing on technology, characters and environments?

Like, keep the mad, balls to the wall high-octane racing scenarios and tough as nails competition, but lose the craziness in favor of more... craziness?

I want it more modern, less 90's garish if you get me. Give Pico a make over, make him look more menacing. And lose all those ridiculously over the top and poorly designed characters like Super Arrow - or at least redesign him so he doesn't look so fucking stupid. The ones in between like Goroh can stay, but with more consideration put into his design and attitude. keep his bursts of anger and japanese origins, but lose the fucking sunglasses and stupid outfit.

Perhaps I want the game to be more 'western', and in many ways that's not likely to happen. I can imagine a lot of GAF disagreeing with me too, but eh, this is what I'd like to see.

I also want to see more emphasis on the health of the machines - deterioration, for example - a higher risk of death through contact etc. I want spectacular crashes.

Oh, and make this the music style:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsVEjD5rcvI

Can you imagine starting the race with this kind of intro? Damn, it would be SO good. (minus the voice samples, mind).


So yeah, rant over. If the next game isn't like this, I'll still buy it, and make my own game later instead. Yeeeah.
Click to expand...

so you want to take out part of F-zero's soul, I'd like the over the top characters and tracks it whant makes the game charming for me, F-zero is not another pseudo reallystic futuristic racer its more like a goofy weird comic book style game which happens to be about racing in alien planets with an insane sense of speed
 
Rhomega Beta

Rhomega Beta

Member
So, any advice on Master difficulty? I've only beaten the Ruby Cup, and won Emerald Cup on Expert by sheer accident. I've also beaten Story Mode and unlocked two AX racers. Oh, and I own the OST.
 
J

John Rabbit

Banned
Ubermatik said:
Am I the only one who wants to see a less over the top-environment F-ZERO and a more exotic-environment F-ZERO? Let me explain - less races taking place inside a huge casino and more races taking place in and around a huge ancient temple nestled in the heart of a weird, alien jungle. I suppose I want it to lose it's 'arcade' feel, and progress more as a game into the realms of focusing on technology, characters and environments?

Like, keep the mad, balls to the wall high-octane racing scenarios and tough as nails competition, but lose the craziness in favor of more... craziness?

I want it more modern, less 90's garish if you get me. Give Pico a make over, make him look more menacing. And lose all those ridiculously over the top and poorly designed characters like Super Arrow - or at least redesign him so he doesn't look so fucking stupid. The ones in between like Goroh can stay, but with more consideration put into his design and attitude. keep his bursts of anger and japanese origins, but lose the fucking sunglasses and stupid outfit.

Perhaps I want the game to be more 'western', and in many ways that's not likely to happen. I can imagine a lot of GAF disagreeing with me too, but eh, this is what I'd like to see.

I also want to see more emphasis on the health of the machines - deterioration, for example - a higher risk of death through contact etc. I want spectacular crashes.

Oh, and make this the music style:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsVEjD5rcvI

Can you imagine starting the race with this kind of intro? Damn, it would be SO good. (minus the voice samples, mind).


So yeah, rant over. If the next game isn't like this, I'll still buy it, and make my own game later instead. Yeeeah.
Click to expand...
you just described wipeout basically.

on a related note, i really need to replay XG3.
 
S

secretanchitman

Member
one of the best racing games ive ever played. friend completely beat the game, minus a few select ax parts which i think you could unlock most of them but very few needed the arcade machine which we didnt have access to.

this game is just fun as hell when playing 4 player split-screen. nintendo *needs* to make a sequel to this game, complete with 30 player online racing (with 1080p, 60fps, 5.1 and the cheesy story). that would definitely set the wii u apart. i dont even mind the controls as long as they give us the option to use the wii pad pro or classic controller pro.
 
K

kittens

Unconfirmed Member
There is NOOOOOOO way X is harder than GX. That is an insane, borderline-factually-false opinion.

In fact, one of the reasons I got bored with X so quickly is because how easy it was.
 
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