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Macquarie Report on NX: "Coming next week" (Take with a grain of salt)

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crinale

Member
How do you solve a problem like 3rd parties...
*snip*

Well as for third party games, you kinda have to consider that once other major players (PS360 or PS4XB1) console price comes down ppl dare to own two consoles: Nintendo and something else, or even PC. As the generation matures that becomes the norm more and more, and you can't really reverse the trend.
So if you consider that you must ask do both third parties and Nintendo have that much of incentive to reverse it..?
 
Well as for third party games, you kinda have to consider that once other major players (PS360 or PS4XB1) console price comes down ppl dare to own two consoles: Nintendo and something else, or even PC. As the generation matures that becomes the norm more and more, and you can't really reverse the trend.
So if you consider that you must ask do both third parties and Nintendo have that much of incentive to reverse it..?


That's the million dollar question. What audience does Nintendo want to cultivate at this point? Honestly I don't know what they want.
 
Well as for third party games, you kinda have to consider that once other major players (PS360 or PS4XB1) console price comes down ppl dare to own two consoles: Nintendo and something else, or even PC. As the generation matures that becomes the norm more and more, and you can't really reverse the trend.
So if you consider that you must ask do both third parties and Nintendo have that much of incentive to reverse it..?

I agree. 3rd parties' ship as sailed a long time ago. The best Nintendo can do is release a next gen level system prior to the PS5/XB but I don't think that would be worth the risk given their position.
 
Because apparently it would be a bigger deal than if Nintendo had someone dress up as Mario at the end of the Olympics...

Marios appearance to promote the next Summer Olympics makes sense, he is one of Japan's well known pop icons.

Some sort of NX announcement during the Olympics would have made more sense because it is the much bigger sport event. Super Bowl is USA only, not the right opportunity to announce a new console for the whole world. Nonetheless there could be an advertisement during this event, if they announce NX before, but surely not a "reveal".
 

MuchoMalo

Banned
I think the reveal itself could be a commercial. The Super Bowl gets a lot of viewers. Nintendo could have its own events planned afterwards for a more hands on look. And of course, the NDA would be lifted for third parties who already know what NX is.

And what about announcing those little things we call games?
 

Jing_Ke

Member
I agree. 3rd parties' ship as sailed a long time ago. The best Nintendo can do is release a next gen level system prior to the PS5/XB but I don't think that would be worth the risk given their position.

I don't agree with that at all - I don't think 3rd parties are a lost cause. I do think however that if Nintendo wants to cultivate that sort of relationship they will need to first create that audience themselves, which will mean establishing studios to create those types of titles.

With that said... that isn't going to happen anytime soon as Nintendo would need to fund several new studios in North America/Europe which would be very expensive, and they don't seem keen on doing so.

We'll see what happens with the NX I suppose.
 

ggx2ac

Member
I think the reveal itself could be a commercial. The Super Bowl gets a lot of viewers. Nintendo could have its own events planned afterwards for a more hands on look. And of course, the NDA would be lifted for third parties who already know what NX is.

I'm still trying to process this, how do they reveal the NX in a 30-60 second commercial without saying, "We will reveal more information at a Nintendo Direct next month."
 
I'll remain cautiously optimistic. Not very interested since the $300-350 rumors came out. Not looking forward to another Wii U situation.
 

kirby_fox

Banned
That's the million dollar question. What audience does Nintendo want to cultivate at this point? Honestly I don't know what they want.

Everyone they can get. That's the problem- when you say your market is everyone, you're going to fail to reach it most of the time.
 

EDarkness

Member
How do you solve a problem like 3rd parties...

This is a complicated issue and unfortunately, there aren't any easy answers. I do think that it cuts both ways and to only blame 3rd Parties is short sighted. My thoughts on the whole 3rd party situation is that while 3rd parties hold a good amount of blame, Nintendo fans at this point in time are essentially NOT particularly interested in 3rd party games or even non-traditional Nintendo games, or games that don't fit within the typical milieu. That being said, I don't think the fans per se are to blame, but rather Nintendo largely for not cultivating and diversifying its audience and library enough.

<snip>

Some interesting points. However, if I remember the days of the Gamecube, a lot of those games were missing features and Nintendo is partly to blame for some of that because they simply refused to open up online gaming during a time when people were really getting into it. On top of that, the GC had a serious image problem. I don't know how many times I heard it called the "Kiddie Box" or the something to that effect. It sucked reading the original Gaming Age forums because that was a huge problem. Lots of flame wars back then. The GC just wasn't all that cool to the masses. Missing features in games didn't help, either. I lay a lot of that on Nintendo.

The Wii was a different story altogether. I believe there was a substantial "core" audience in the beginning and the crappy "family"/handholding/"even grandma can play" games drove them away. I still think this was a major failing on their part as they ended up poisoning their own well. Core guys were willing to pick up the Call of Duty games and the like. If I remember correctly, the Wii versions of those games sold fairly well. I remember working at Gamestop during those days and people being furious at the Wii version of Madden (I think 2006) because of cut features and such. EA really dropped the ball there. We had a lot of pre-orders for that game, too. Same with that Wolverine game that came out around that time. Third parties really treated Wii owners like third class citizens.

I think the Wii U is just unappealing and that was/is the problem with it. However, crappy ports didn't help and completed the narrative that it was a crappy system not worth owning. I think there were even videos early in the Wii U's life showing how crappy it was. It just help drive home how unappealing it was. That stuff doesn't help to sell games to the "core" audience who do a lot of things on word of mouth. I don't think there was anything Nintendo could have done about it, because it's hard to change people's perception after the fact. Some of it falls at the feet of Nintendo for trying to release last gen hardware in a time when people were tired of that tech and ready to move on.

Anyway, you're right, it's a complicated thing, but I think it can be solved by Nintendo having hardware that's close to the competition and third parties actually TRYING to give Nintendo console owners good games with a good value proposition. This means no more crap like Mass Effect 3 (where the trilogy came out on other platforms and cheaper). Or treating people like they're kids. I think EA, Ubisoft, Activision, and the like should make the games they're good at and try not to second guess things. Madden should be just Madden...none of that Madden for grandmas. Grandmas DON'T play Madden. They should know that, so don't even go there. People who play Madden want to play Madden that isn't made for little kids. On top of that, all the DLC should be released along with all other versions. I'm still sour I didn't get the pre-order map for CoD until two years later. Ugh.
 

MuchoMalo

Banned
I'll remain cautiously optimistic. Not very interested since the $300-350 rumors came out. Not looking forward to another Wii U situation.

Don't worry, $300 is the absolute max unless there's a huge unknown gimmick or a bundled GPU dock (which could put it above PS4 and thus actually worth $350).
 
I think the reveal itself could be a commercial. The Super Bowl gets a lot of viewers. Nintendo could have its own events planned afterwards for a more hands on look. And of course, the NDA would be lifted for third parties who already know what NX is.

Put an ads on during Super Bowl could easily cost Nintendo much more than having its own event.
 
I was already looking forward to the rumored official 1050 ti reveal next week. If we can get an NX reveal, even better
no more of these fucking threads.

Oh well, hopefully I'll get at least one thing I want.
 
Some interesting points. However, if I remember the days of the Gamecube, a lot of those games were missing features and Nintendo is partly to blame for some of that because they simply refused to open up online gaming during a time when people were really getting into it. On top of that, the GC had a serious image problem. I don't know how many times I heard it called the "Kiddie Box" or the something to that effect. It sucked reading the original Gaming Age forums because that was a huge problem. Lots of flame wars back then. The GC just wasn't all that cool to the masses. Missing features in games didn't help, either. I lay a lot of that on Nintendo.

The Wii was a different story altogether. I believe there was a substantial "core" audience in the beginning and the crappy "family"/handholding/"even grandma can play" games drove them away. I still think this was a major failing on their part as they ended up poisoning their own well. Core guys were willing to pick up the Call of Duty games and the like. If I remember correctly, the Wii versions of those games sold fairly well. I remember working at Gamestop during those days and people being furious at the Wii version of Madden (I think 2006) because of cut features and such. EA really dropped the ball there. We had a lot of pre-orders for that game, too. Same with that Wolverine game that came out around that time. Third parties really treated Wii owners like third class citizens.

I think the Wii U is just unappealing and that was/is the problem with it. However, crappy ports didn't help and completed the narrative that it was a crappy system not worth owning. I think there were even videos early in the Wii U's life showing how crappy it was. It just help drive home how unappealing it was. That stuff doesn't help to sell games to the "core" audience who do a lot of things on word of mouth. I don't think there was anything Nintendo could have done about it, because it's hard to change people's perception after the fact. Some of it falls at the feet of Nintendo for trying to release last gen hardware in a time when people were tired of that tech and ready to move on.

Anyway, you're right, it's a complicated thing, but I think it can be solved by Nintendo having hardware that's close to the competition and third parties actually TRYING to give Nintendo console owners good games with a good value proposition. This means no more crap like Mass Effect 3 (where the trilogy came out on other platforms and cheaper). Or treating people like they're kids. I think EA, Ubisoft, Activision, and the like should make the games they're good at and try not to second guess things. Madden should be just Madden...none of that Madden for grandmas. Grandmas DON'T play Madden. They should know that, so don't even go there. People who play Madden want to play Madden that isn't made for little kids. On top of that, all the DLC should be released along with all other versions. I'm still sour I didn't get the pre-order map for CoD until two years later. Ugh.

You bring up some interesting stuff here: the situation Nintendo is in right now is a very weird one. Their image went from being seen as kiddie with the Gamecube to casual with the Wii (And, should the Wii U even be counted? How many people even know it exist?). It'll be intriguing but terrifying to see how they go about presenting the NX coming off of all of this strangeness.
 

Cerbero

Member
Don't worry, $300 is the absolute max unless there's a huge unknown gimmick or a bundled GPU dock (which could put it above PS4 and thus actually worth $350).

i hope so, 300€ is still doable for me (albeit i would prefer a 249€ pricetag), but 350€ would put me and a lot of other potential buyers off.
 

Manoko

Member
Well their marketing is working as of right now since WE are talking about it all day long, Nintendo saves a lot of $$$ because of this ;)

I don't think Gaffers are a good representation of gamers/potential customers of Nintendo in general.

The general public still doesn't have any idea what the NX is (I mean, they don't know that Nintendo has a console in the works codenamed NX, coming out in less than 6 months, that's really bad marketing).

I have friends in Japan who are 3DS gamers, and they didn't even know Nintendo was making a new console codenamed NX.
That's extremely bad marketing.
 

orioto

Good Art™
I don't think Gaffers are a good representation of gamers/potential customers of Nintendo in general.

The general public still doesn't have any idea what the NX is (I mean, they don't know that Nintendo has a console in the works codenamed NX, coming out in less than 6 months, that's really bad marketing).

I have friends in Japan who are 3DS gamers, and they didn't even know Nintendo was making a new console codenamed NX.
That's extremely bad marketing.

If rumors of marketing orientation are true... they don't care. Mainstream initial Wii buyers probably had no idea it existed 1 month before.
 

Matbtz

Member
I don't think Gaffers are a good representation of gamers/potential customers of Nintendo in general.

The general public still doesn't have any idea what the NX is (I mean, they don't know that Nintendo has a console in the works codenamed NX, coming out in less than 6 months, that's really bad marketing).

I have friends in Japan who are 3DS gamers, and they didn't even know Nintendo was making a new console codenamed NX.
That's extremely bad marketing.

Yes that's right but do console makers need 5-6+ months of marketing ahead of the release ? If Nintendo do a big event for the unveiling let's say in November, they have about 4 months for building up the hype. If they plan to talk regularly until March about games or give more info about the console that could be just fine I guess.

But yeah if they unveil it and not maintain or build the hype after that, that's really bad IMO.
 
Nintendo fucking up their marketing since the Wii U.

I'm not sure how much I can blame the marketing department for that one. Tasking your marketers with selling the public on a product as unappealing as the Wii U isn't easy and there really is only so much they can do in a situation like that. I'd blame the architects of that piece of hardware more than those who actually had to advertise the thing.
 

cw_sasuke

If all DLC came tied to $13 figurines, I'd consider all DLC to be free
I have friends in Japan who are 3DS gamers, and they didn't even know Nintendo was making a new console codenamed NX.
That's extremely bad marketing.

Nintendo wants those customers to keep spending on their 3DS/WiiU games without worrying about a system launch in 6 months that will make them obsolete.

The number of people loosing their sleep over NX is pretty small - since these people will be there Day 1 at the Unveiling anyway.

PS. People say they understand what the NX is, yet call fake to everything that doesnt sound like a WiiU type fuck up situation....ok.
 

13ruce

Banned
I'm not sure how much I can blame the marketing department for that one. Tasking your marketers with selling the public on a product as unappealing as the Wii U isn't easy and there really is only so much they can do in a situation like that. I'd blame the architects of that piece of hardware more than those who actually had to advertise the thing.

Agreed, there is no way to outmarket a bad designed product thats just impossible. Even if they spent 100s of millions on it and show it on every tv channel, internet etc.

I'm sure they learned and thats why they are carefully with NX and making some great games to launch it with for a good start.
 
I don't think Gaffers are a good representation of gamers/potential customers of Nintendo in general.

The general public still doesn't have any idea what the NX is (I mean, they don't know that Nintendo has a console in the works codenamed NX, coming out in less than 6 months, that's really bad marketing).

I have friends in Japan who are 3DS gamers, and they didn't even know Nintendo was making a new console codenamed NX.
That's extremely bad marketing.

You know nothing about about selling a product if you are calling this a failure on their part already.

The marketing you are calling bad literally hasn't started. When Nintendo finally decides to start spending hundreds of millions of dollars on showing the device and telling people what it is, your friends will know about it.

You know about the NX because you are a forum dweller like us that is constantly sharing and discussing new information and rumors. The average person doesn't do that. They learn about something when they see it in a damn store or their friends share or show them something.

People overreacting to this reveal silence is baffling. Look at every other major electronic device and their reveal to release timeline. The NX isn't some crazy outlier.
 

Xiao Hu

Member
"Marketing is bad", but the marketing hasn't started...

The better term would be PR because there is barelly any communication between Nintendo and the fan base whatsoever. Like wouldn't you start teasing with cryptic images and tweets in the weeks before the unveil to generate hype beyond the usual suspects?
 

Retrobox

Member
They nailed the Wii marketing, so it's completely unjustified to say they are bad. Unless they outsourced it.

Pretty sure the Nes Mini marketing is going along smoothly as well. People see failures when they want to see them and don't see successes when they don't. Just another day on the Internet.
 
The better term would be PR because there is barelly any communication between Nintendo and the fan base whatsoever. Like wouldn't you start teasing with cryptic images and tweets in the weeks before the unveil to generate hype beyond the usual suspects?
Honestly, not really. Show stuff when you're ready to show stuff- don't waste our time with anything less.
 
Wouldn't cryptic bullshit just piss people off even more with teases but no real info or idea of when the thing will be revealed? I mean you've already got people in here complaining about being frustrated by a continued lack of news, brought about by their own F5-ing of NX non-threads based on nothing but their own desperation.
 

ggx2ac

Member
You know nothing about about selling a product if you are calling this a failure on their part already.

The marketing you are calling bad literally hasn't started. When Nintendo finally decides to start spending hundreds of millions of dollars on showing the device and telling people what it is, your friends will know about it.

You know about the NX because you are a forum dweller like us that is constantly sharing and discussing new information and rumors. The average person doesn't do that. They learn about something when they see it in a damn store or their friends share or show them something.

People overreacting to this reveal silence is baffling. Look at every other major electronic device and their reveal to release timeline. The NX isn't some crazy outlier.

This is true, I know plenty of people that like playing video games and when I show them games I've played, they like it but become surprised that they've never heard of it.

It's obvious that they only ever hear of AAA games because that's what millions of dollars in advertising are being spent that only the mainstream become aware of.

How many times now have I scrolled to the bottom of a page in this thread to see a Gears of War 4 ad where I keep mistaking the guy in the middle for Chris Redfield.
 

TLZ

Banned
I feel like Thursday is the only day next week they can reveal the NX, but are they seriously not going to give people time to prepare for it?

Like all the YouTube channels that want to do live streams? Or all the people who want to see it live without work interfering? This is why I don't see any NX reveal next week. They would have to make the announcement on Monday to atleast give us a 3 days notice.

At this point I can only hope they reveal it on October 25 and give use the announcement date next week. It's the initial reveal-they SHOULD want as many people to watch it as they can get which means giving people some time to prepare for it. A 2 days notice isn't good enough, if it were to be next week.

Well if it's a direct then YouTube channels can always overreact to it ;)
 
I don't think Gaffers are a good representation of gamers/potential customers of Nintendo in general.

The general public still doesn't have any idea what the NX is (I mean, they don't know that Nintendo has a console in the works codenamed NX, coming out in less than 6 months, that's really bad marketing).

I have friends in Japan who are 3DS gamers, and they didn't even know Nintendo was making a new console codenamed NX.
That's extremely bad marketing.

Why should Nintendo want that people know about console codenames?

They will announce the new system in Oct or Nov so that some people save money for the launch.
 
Some interesting points. However, if I remember the days of the Gamecube, a lot of those games were missing features and Nintendo is partly to blame for some of that because they simply refused to open up online gaming during a time when people were really getting into it. On top of that, the GC had a serious image problem. I don't know how many times I heard it called the "Kiddie Box" or the something to that effect. It sucked reading the original Gaming Age forums because that was a huge problem. Lots of flame wars back then. The GC just wasn't all that cool to the masses. Missing features in games didn't help, either. I lay a lot of that on Nintendo.
You're right in that it wasn't a singular issue. There definitely was a perception issue, and there wasn't a push for online like Xbox. Having said that, Sony wasn't exactly burning the barn in online back then aside from sports games/FF XI/SOCOM and same later titles. But my point was that despite that, 3rd party adoption rate still lagged far behind those of its competitors during that era, even with games where there was a good deal of parity like Ubi's output like the Prince of Persia games for example.

Anyway, you're right, it's a complicated thing, but I think it can be solved by Nintendo having hardware that's close to the competition and third parties actually TRYING to give Nintendo console owners good games with a good value proposition. This means no more crap like Mass Effect 3 (where the trilogy came out on other platforms and cheaper). Or treating people like they're kids. I think EA, Ubisoft, Activision, and the like should make the games they're good at and try not to second guess things. Madden should be just Madden...none of that Madden for grandmas. Grandmas DON'T play Madden. They should know that, so don't even go there. People who play Madden want to play Madden that isn't made for little kids. On top of that, all the DLC should be released along with all other versions. I'm still sour I didn't get the pre-order map for CoD until two years later. Ugh.

It's still a tricky situation. Even with a console akin to its competitors, most 3rd parties will still float that there isn't a significant audience on a Nintendo system and they would be right. It hasn't been built, whereas there already is a thriving community on other consoles. Why would players suddenly switch en mass to Nintendo for a gaming community that already exists on their respective consoles? So if 3rd parties won't develop for Nintendo, then a gamer who's looking at prospective console purchases has no incentive to buy a Nintendo console besides the Nintendo games. It's a bad self-feeding cycle, and one that Nintendo has increasingly been sinking into, especially evident during this Wii U era.

I agree that in a vacuum, if all the 3rd parties were developing the same exact game with all the content on a Nintendo system, and avoiding any sort of marketing "kiddie cube" disasters in addition to the stellar Nintendo content that Nintendo regularly produces, we would start to see some migration to the Nintendo console. After all, content, especially exclusive content will still entice. But as far as we know, NX is not that, so that's not a scenario bound to happen.

But having said all that, I don't think that's what Nintendo wants. I don't know. The future's gonna be interesting to see.
 
I predict a $200 handheld, a $200 TV dock booster thing with regular gamepad, or $350 for the job lot.

Whatever it is, it needs to be good. Nintendo can't afford another hardware failure. The handheld market has receded due to mobile and their consoles have been 'doomed' for years.

It will be interesting to see what they come up with and what the consumer reaction is.
 

maxcriden

Member
I'll remain cautiously optimistic. Not very interested since the $300-350 rumors came out. Not looking forward to another Wii U situation.

I wouldn't necessarily take any stock in that rumored price point at the moment. It seems to run counter to previous statements Nintendo has made about planned pricing for the system.
 
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