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Media Create Sales 3/3 - 3/9
- Thread starter Cheesemeister
- Start date
charlequin
Banned
Elbrain said:
In Japan, I think that's basically off the table at this point. FF13 is literally the only title left to release that's bigger than every title released on the PS3 to date. And the PS3 is already fairly cheap in Japan, and has been seeing whatever BluRay benefit it was going to get all along, since HD-DVD never had a chance there.
Japanese buying patterns are much less forgiving than Europe or the US, so given how low PS3 was even with the RGG3 bump....
PS3 isn't going to have any massive jump. If GT5P -> DMC -> RGG couldn't sustain the system at a reasonable level Valkyria -> MGS won't have much of an effect either.
The only option I can see at this point is Sony trying to repeat a PSPslim-esque revival of the platform. Slim PS3 + FFXIII bundle in Spring 09(if we're lucky). Until then, the platform is as good as dead next to the Wii.
The only option I can see at this point is Sony trying to repeat a PSPslim-esque revival of the platform. Slim PS3 + FFXIII bundle in Spring 09(if we're lucky). Until then, the platform is as good as dead next to the Wii.
I don't own a Wii yet, thus I have no informed opinion of metroid prime 3, but given my fandom of the previous Prime games on the Cube I must admit to frowning at japan favoring a freakin Dynasty Warriors game with a Gundam skin pasted on and yakuza 3, which I thought the demo on PSN was not good at all....
meh, whatever.....
meh, whatever.....
test_account
XP-39C²
Narcosis said:
I've heard the demo of Yakuza 3 wasnt that good compared to the full game (i.e in this post: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10081672&postcount=66), but i havnt tried neither myself so i cant say for sure.
vanguardian1
poor, homeless and tasteless
I was under the impression that the HDTV install base in Japan was somewhere between 60% and 80%, I don't have a way to verify it (I'm also too lazy to look it up) but it was mentioned in an earlier thread on NeoGAF.
gtj1092 said:
He said it wasn't doing so hot, which it isn't. Just because its other major non-Wii competition is doing about the same or worse worldwide in hardware doesn't mean the PS3 is doing well.
Sage00 said:
As far as the HDTVs go, I thought they were much more prevalent than in the U.S. Space being at such a premium in Japan, a flat-screen gives a real benefit over a CRT. As far as actual HD content penetrating the living room, I don't know.
Narcosis said:
It's a substantial increase over Prime 2, but unfortunately the core base on the Wii isn't showing up very well in the sales charts. It looks like Brawl hasn't been enough, to this point, to bring in that core-type user in Japan, yet. Maybe the Tales of Symphonia spinquel
P) will have better luck.
BishopLamont
Banned
Correct.gtj1092 said:
Segata Sanshiro
Member
I'm going to clear this one up right here. The only reason I didn't in the last thread where I was accused of this is because I didn't want to bump a (thankfully) disappearing goofy thread.gtj1092 said:
What you see many of the people engaging in here is NOT a "Ricky Bobby" "If you're not first, you're last" philosophy. What you are seeing is a "if you aren't making money or gaining marketshare, you're not succeeding" with a dash of "if you're not succeeding, you're failing".
Success and failure are by definition two sides of the same coin. In any given activity or enterprise, you are either doing one or the other to varying degrees.
The PS3 has succeeded in a couple of areas. First, it is assuredly the reason Bluray won the HD war quickly. Second, it has a fair amount of good games and has avoided losing *too much* third party support, given its failures. It will likely pull up to second place WW by the time all is said and done, and may even start generating on-going profit.
Its failures are far too numerous to list, but the main two are loss of marketshare to competition and the sheer amount of cash burned thus far on the project. I seriously doubt the PS3 can generate more money than they've spent on it by the end of the generation.
Given Sony's main goal with PS3 was clearly to establish BR as the format of choice, it's easy to call the PS3 a success, but the secondary and tertiary goals, and the ones that really ought to matter to gamers, have met with failure. This is why many gamers refer to it as a failure.
As an aside, I think it's remarkable how few people are upset with Sony over selling out gamers for movie-viewers. We've got near-daily lamentations from people upset over Nintendo selling out gamers for "non-gamers".
BishopLamont
Banned
It's because these non games are selling and PS3s aren't selling, if it was the reverse you'd see the anger shifted too.Segata Sanshiro said:
Ok let's say everyone in Japan has a HDTV, do you think all of the PS3's problems going to magically disappear just because the games are going to look a bit better? You still got the Wii, the console that has the games appealing to Japan and you still got Mario and non-games. The problem with the PS3 is not price or HD adoption, it's a lack of mass market appealing software.iceatcs said:
Sage00 said:
My J-GAF insight is this. The HD penetration in Japan is good, but a large majority of Japanese gamers aren't going to walk into the store and look for games that have an HD logo.
The dictionary software, Brain software, Touch DS software -- they all have their own shelves in high profile game stores. HD software? Not so much.
charlequin
Banned
Segata Sanshiro said:
I think the pricing issue made this conveniently difficult to pin down: it is, ultimately, the inclusion of BRD that made PS3 cost 599 US DOLLARS and thereby broke the back of the dominant Sony empire of every-good-game-on-one-affordable-system, but it's harder to make that connection than to actually see the "non-games" lighting up the charts.
That said: I'm still pretty ticked about it!
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
gtj1092 said:
- Adoption: The PS3 is doing worse than the GameCube did in Japan. Since the GameCube was literally universally regarded as a failure, one must assume that things that do worse than the GameCube are... failures.
- Money: The PS3 is losing money hand-over-fist. Besides the multi-billion dollar loss incurred (which was much larger than either the money loss periods of the PSX or the PS2), the PS3 has also managed to make Sony lose that much money WHILE Sony enjoyed the immensely profitable PS2 and PSP. Since the main claim levied against the original XBOX by those who call it a failure is that it was a failure because it was unprofitable for the company, one must assume that things that are even more unprofitable and drag down immensely profitable operations in the same division of the companies are... failures.
In addition, the price cut canard holds no water. What we've seen is that despite the fact that Japan launched with a lower price than either Europe or North America, Japan was the weakest territory. Price cuts have temporarily bolstered sales, but the pattern we've seen has been like all price cuts in non-leading systems; a temporary boost and then a return to normalcy.
- Mindshare: The PS3 is the successor to the most successful home console of all time. One of the main criticisms levied against the N64 by those who called it a failure was that it triggered a massive system-over-system decline over the previous successful system. If it's true for the N64, then the PS3 must be a... failure.
Sony no longer has prominent floors in game stores. Sony is no longer the de facto king. The generic term for a video game machine is no longer a "Sony" or a "PlayStation".
- Software: It's alleged that when a system fails to move software, it has failed regardless of the hardware involved. This criticism is often made against the PSP, but it's also made against other systems historically. The PS3 launched to an anemic 0.77 tie ratio (as in; yes, fewer than one game was sold per system during the launch period!) and has now buoyed to a blistering 2 tie ratio. Blu-Ray uptake in Japan is also lower than in the US and this is despite the fact that HD-DVD never functionally existed in Japan (IE consistently had less than 5% of the market share even when it was competitive in the US). Furthermore, every single major franchise that has launched on the PS3 has declined spectacularly versus the PS2.
During the launch of the PS3, people said (in reference to Japan); Wait for MinGol! Wait for Dynasty Warriors! Wait for Devil May Cry! Wait for GT5P! Wait for PES! Wait for Virtua Fighter 5! Wait for Ninja Gaiden Sigma! Wait for Lair! Wait for Ratchet and Clank! Wait for Heavenly Sword! They've all come, and while many of them are on top of the PS3 software lists, they've still declined enormously over their PS2 installments. There are a total of two franchises in-line with the franchises mentioned in this paragraph that have not yet debuted on the PS3; Final Fantasy and Metal Gear Solid. Both will do well, but far poorer than their PS2 installments.
So if any console is a failure because it can't move software on the absolute scale or on a relative scale to previous consoles and IP installments, then we must agree that the PS3 is a failure.
In Japan, the PS3 is a failure for the conventionally offered definitions of success and failure. If your definition of failure is PSP software adoption, GameCube hardware adoption, 360 cash losses, and Saturn mindshare loss, then yes--the PS3 is a mild or mixed success. But if you've ever called the N64, the PSP, the Xbox, the 360, or the GameCube a failure for the reasons mentioned above, then you must accept that the same is true for the PS3.
Provide a definition for failure that incorporates mindshare, software, hardware adoption, and cash, and we'll classify the systems throughout history according to if they are failures or successes.
So what's next? With a robust software library, continued price drops, a redesigned model, and the remaining heavy hitters, along with a renewed focus on Japan by Sony, I believe the PS3 can expect to be a healthy second-place system. It's not there yet, though. The Gulf between the Wii and the PS3 is as big as the Gulf between the PS2 and the GameCube was, if not bigger. I believe Sony can close the gap (or at least close the rate in acceleration of the gap) by doing all these things. Assuming the Wii dies early and the PS3 stays late, a respectable second place finish is still possible.
Segata Sanshiro said:
Yeah, it is quite hypocritical. Who the fuck do people really think care about this industry the most? Sony is an electronics company and Microsoft is a software company. Nintendo is the only pure videogame company that still makes consoles. And if the videogame industry were to die, Nintendo is the one that stands to lose the most.
The dislike from non-games comes from one's personal taste.
People like movies. If movies destroyed the gaming industry, I'm sure most of the critics would be able to go on with their lives.
If Brain Age, Wii Fit and Nintendogs destroyed the segment of the game industry those critics enjoy, then there will be hell.
People like movies. If movies destroyed the gaming industry, I'm sure most of the critics would be able to go on with their lives.
If Brain Age, Wii Fit and Nintendogs destroyed the segment of the game industry those critics enjoy, then there will be hell.
Stumpokapow said:
I absolutely do not consider the GameCube a failure for probably the same reasons that many PS3 fans this generation will not see the PS3 as a failure. Games. The GameCube was the near-pinnacle of Nintendo gaming, if you had the right equipment/games. GBPlayer made all GB, GBC, and GBA games available, which meant all the SNES GBA ports were available, too. Animal Crossing had a host of classic NES games. Metroid Prime had Metroid NES. Zelda Collection disk and Master Quest disk gave the ultimate Zelda fix. Connectivity was great in Animal Crossing, Pac-Man vs., and Zelda: Four Swords. Bongos were awesome and gave us possibly the best console 2-D platformer from last generation (Jungle Beat). And then there were all the regular GameCube games themselves (so many awesome games, that it would be too much to list them here).
Put it all together, and you had an amazing culmination of Nintendo gaming only possibly superceded by the Wii's virtual console and backwards compatibility (though it leaves out GB, GBC, and GBA compatibility).
That's the games, though. The GameCube was a true failure in sales (which I am reasonably sure you were referring to) outside of possibly the U.S. There it was at least disappointing, but I wouldn't go as far as to call it a sales failure in its own right.
Stumpokapow said:
Devil May Cry 4 has now barely beaten out Devil May Cry 3's LTD, but other than that, yeah.
Fuzzy said:
This isn't a fair argument, I believe.
The reason why game studios might theoretically allocate resources away from "games" and towards "non games" is that non games are, in reality, games -- they're just intended for different demographics and playstyles. Companies that are built around the development of interactive entertainment displayed on a video screen are already set up to make these "non games," because they are so similar in nature to what they are already doing.
By contrast, these companies aren't going to be making movies precisely because movies are honestly, genuinely non-games; the companies making games are rarely going to shift their focus to movies any more than an automobile manufacturer is suddenly going to shift to development of airplanes. The products are so different that it requires an entirely different set of corporate assets and structure to produce.
In effect, what you're arguing is that movies are fine because they are so different from games that they do not pose a threat to the corporate resources allocated to game development; by contrast, "non games," which are actually games, do pose a threat to those resources because they are identical to "games", in terms of the necessary corporate assets and development structure.
From a philosophical point of view, it seems obtuse to hold particular fault towards Nintendo for making their "non game" appeal so similar to traditional games (in that they are games, just a different a type), while condoning Sony for making their "non game" appeal so totally different from gaming (in that they aren't games at all). From a purely selfish point of view, however, I do agree with you.
AdventureRacing
Member
donny2112 said:
The gamecube also made money, which is one more reason that it wasn't an outright failure.
Fuzzy said:
Without the wii and DS they would of all stopped making games cause they would all be broke.
vanguardian1 said:
Sounds about right. When I bought a TV back in 2004 I was able to get a fairly big SD TV with a flat screen for super cheap. Because they were getting rid of SD TV inventory. But even then about 70% of the TV in the store were HDTV sets (or "high-vision" as they call it here).
Now it is very hard to get an SD TV at all. One of my co-workers is from England. She is here in Japan for just 1 year so she just wanted a simple SDTV that wouldn't cost her much money. We had to go to 3 stores before we could even find an SDTV. The big chains like Yamada and Best only carry a few SDTVs and they are all really small TVs with built in DVD players. We had to go to "Trial" (a discount store) just to find a nice sized SDTV.
Many used electronics stores will only buy HDTVs now. I guess they assume they won't be able to sell them.
I don't know exactally, but I think it's in about 2 years that all the singals in Japan will switch over to HD (and you will have to buy an expensive converter for an SD TV).
OldJadedGamer
Banned
AdventureRacing said:
The difference is that the GameCube made Nintendo money on each unit sold from the day it launched. The same cannot be said about the PS3.
donny2112 said:
I did say "rarely" for a reason. A company could theoretically move from making toasters to publishing novels; it's just rare. It's a general rule, not an absolute one.
Although FF:Spirits Within was actually produced by Columbia Pictures, so even in this one case of a single movie (not an entire shift towards the industry, but a single movie), Square required assistance from a company that was already established in the industry.
Given your posting history, I assume you were just being picky, and not actually disagreeing with me more largely (feel free to corrent me if that's wrong).
Vinnks Village lite
There weren't any really big releases other then Yakuza 3 so there aren't so many numbers, just observations. If you want a store by store breakdown for the systems I can post it, but otherwise, here are just the totals.
Wii: 38
PS3: 44
Yakuza 3 bundles: 3 (2 at Best Denki, 1 at Wanpaku)
Yakuza 3: 34
1. There are more Wii systems on shelves this week than I have seen since before Smash Bros. Brawl. Also I saw 2 used Wii systems this week. I havent seen used Wii systems for quite a while. They were selling for 23,000 yen (about 2000 yen cheaper than a new system)
2. The 60 GB PS3 systems are all gone. Every single one of them, new and used. Only the 40GB system can now be found. Hiro at Famicom Dojo had 2 used systems last month but there were gone this week. He told me he was having a hard time selling them in town so he put them up an Yahoo auctions and sold them for 60,000 yen each (higher than the current price of a new system).
3. The Yakuza 3 kiosks got a lot of eye attention. SEGA sent a ton of promo stuff for this game. Posters, flyers, kiosk backings, etc. Im really impressed at the effort SEGA put into getting this game seen.
4. Etrian Odyssey II got some nice promotion as well. Atlus sponsored one of the popular high school drama programs and at every commercial break there was an ad for this game. At one of the break I was surprised to also see and ad for the second Wii Trauma Center game.
5. The gamers I know who purchased Etrian Odyssey II are loving it so far. I asked why they bought it and they said because of the first one. One guy hopes the series gets ported to PSP.
6. The number of ads for General Knowledge Training has gone down, but they are still advertising it more than any other game right now. Nintendo seems to have not given up on the title yet.
There weren't any really big releases other then Yakuza 3 so there aren't so many numbers, just observations. If you want a store by store breakdown for the systems I can post it, but otherwise, here are just the totals.
Wii: 38
PS3: 44
Yakuza 3 bundles: 3 (2 at Best Denki, 1 at Wanpaku)
Yakuza 3: 34
1. There are more Wii systems on shelves this week than I have seen since before Smash Bros. Brawl. Also I saw 2 used Wii systems this week. I havent seen used Wii systems for quite a while. They were selling for 23,000 yen (about 2000 yen cheaper than a new system)
2. The 60 GB PS3 systems are all gone. Every single one of them, new and used. Only the 40GB system can now be found. Hiro at Famicom Dojo had 2 used systems last month but there were gone this week. He told me he was having a hard time selling them in town so he put them up an Yahoo auctions and sold them for 60,000 yen each (higher than the current price of a new system).
3. The Yakuza 3 kiosks got a lot of eye attention. SEGA sent a ton of promo stuff for this game. Posters, flyers, kiosk backings, etc. Im really impressed at the effort SEGA put into getting this game seen.
4. Etrian Odyssey II got some nice promotion as well. Atlus sponsored one of the popular high school drama programs and at every commercial break there was an ad for this game. At one of the break I was surprised to also see and ad for the second Wii Trauma Center game.
5. The gamers I know who purchased Etrian Odyssey II are loving it so far. I asked why they bought it and they said because of the first one. One guy hopes the series gets ported to PSP.
6. The number of ads for General Knowledge Training has gone down, but they are still advertising it more than any other game right now. Nintendo seems to have not given up on the title yet.
andthebeatgoeson
Junior Member
Can we get a link to that avatar/pic?Elbrain said:
andthebeatgoeson
Junior Member
Can we put that up under the Neogaf avatar. I haven't been to gaming-age.com (is it still open?) but they used to have a quotable section at the bottom. That's where this needs to go. Actually, since nobody goes there anyway, I don't want this quote to die.Segata Sanshiro said:
seattle6418
Member
for J-gaffers... how bad is the economy in japan right now? whats the effect on the games industry?
maybe it has something to do with low sales... in a contrast wih record breaking numbers all over the globe
maybe it has something to do with low sales... in a contrast wih record breaking numbers all over the globe
seattle6418 said:
The video game industry is thriving in Japan right now. The DS, PSP and Wii are selling very well. Software is also selling at a very high rate. Donny could probably give a better picture but I believe that pre-DS sales figures were much lower.
The economy is at around the same low level it has been for the last decade. Recently food prices shot up but the US is having far more economic problems right now and they just had a record-breaking month.
seattle6418 said:
I haven't heard of the economy taking a dive or anything. I'm pretty sure it is holding steady.
The gaming market is just different. A lot of the ppl who play games in America are ppl in their 20's and 30's who have good jobs that also provide enough free time for them to enjoy their holiday. From what I know, 20 and 30 somethings in Japan that have good jobs are working a lot more overtime than us Americans. For one, most teachers I know don't even get out until at least 6 o'clock and maybe as late as 8 on some days. Ppl tell me normal Japanese companies are just the same, forcing unpaid overtime on employees is a norm in Japan.
While this is not a fully fleshed out theory at all, I think that since Japanese don't get to have as much time for themselves, it kindof stunts the growth/popularity of home videogame consoles.
also, any word on the famitsu numbers yet?
Segata Sanshiro said:
It was easy in the initial phases to do just that, for the PS3 it was Blu-Ray and PSP it was UMD - there were certain parts that were worried about Sony prioritizing the 'non-playing' part of the consoles over the 'playing'/'gaming' part. Soon any criticism was tempered by the hearts, minds and wishes of those who wanted the Sony brand to win, especially when there are (were) counter-parties on the other side willing Sony to fail, eg. X360, HD-DVD, Wii and DS.
It is when such 'opposition' does not exist that the initial criticisms appear again. This has happened in some extent, as it has for Nintendo 'gamers' who have seen their consoles of choice succeed there's not much 'opposition' left, so people have turned to criticising the parts that have made these consoles successful - 'non-games'.
Where I'm getting at with the PS3 is that there will be more grumbling that Sony doesn't care about its games if software sales flop while Blu-Ray movies soar and the PS3 is mainly known for its Blu-Ray abilities than being a kickarse console.
viewtifulsub
Member
Cheesemeister said:
The FSR re-release didnt even get 10k in sales? The original PS2 release only hit 5k in the first week back in 01, and never appeared again.
Suda51 must be depressed to see yet again to see another bomb in sales, especially for one of his 'personal' projects. Hopefully, US/Euro gamers will give the respect the man deserves.
AdventureRacing
Member
Pachael said:
At first i was unhappy with blu-ray being included in the PS3 for the reasons being listed. However they still provided the customer with a fantastic gaming machine, so i will get over it.
AnimeTheme
Member
skinnyrattler said:
I want it too lol. I can't tell which Anime or game she came from.
Metal Gear?!
Member
skinnyrattler said:
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.AnimeTheme said:
You (probably) don't want to know.
JoshuaJSlone
Member
If you're not first, you're not necessarily last. However, you're not necessarily second, third, fourth, or fifth either.gtj1092 said:
So here's the last reservation numbers from the store:
1. Grand Theft Auto IV
2. Mario Kart
3. Star Wars: The Force Unleashed
4. Rainbow Six: Vegas 2
5. Halo Wars
NDS
Pokemon Mystery Dungeon 2: 11
Ninja Gaiden Dragon Sword: 8
Sonic Chronicles: 5
PSP
FFVII Crisis Core: 18
360
Halo Wars: 29
Gears of War: 21
Ninja Gaiden 2: 17
Too Human: 5
Fable 2: 4
Wii
Mario Kart: 113
Wii Fit: 27
We Ski: 1. Yes, someone actually reserved this.
PS3
Metal Gear Solid 4: 11
Killzone 2: 8
GT5: Prologue: 4
LittleBigPlanet: 3
PS2
MGS Essentials: 5
Singstar 90s: 3
PC
Wrath of the Lich King: 23
Starcraft 2: 12
Spore: 4
Multiplatform
GTA IV: 147 (100 360, 47 PS3)
Star Wars: The Force Unleashed: 58 (38 360, 15 PS3, 4 Wii, 1 PSP)
Rainbow Six: Vegas 2: 38 (31 360, 7 PS3)
Soul Calibur IV: 5 (3 360, 2 PS3)
1. Grand Theft Auto IV
2. Mario Kart
3. Star Wars: The Force Unleashed
4. Rainbow Six: Vegas 2
5. Halo Wars
NDS
Pokemon Mystery Dungeon 2: 11
Ninja Gaiden Dragon Sword: 8
Sonic Chronicles: 5
PSP
FFVII Crisis Core: 18
360
Halo Wars: 29
Gears of War: 21
Ninja Gaiden 2: 17
Too Human: 5
Fable 2: 4
Wii
Mario Kart: 113
Wii Fit: 27
We Ski: 1. Yes, someone actually reserved this.
PS3
Metal Gear Solid 4: 11
Killzone 2: 8
GT5: Prologue: 4
LittleBigPlanet: 3
PS2
MGS Essentials: 5
Singstar 90s: 3
PC
Wrath of the Lich King: 23
Starcraft 2: 12
Spore: 4
Multiplatform
GTA IV: 147 (100 360, 47 PS3)
Star Wars: The Force Unleashed: 58 (38 360, 15 PS3, 4 Wii, 1 PSP)
Rainbow Six: Vegas 2: 38 (31 360, 7 PS3)
Soul Calibur IV: 5 (3 360, 2 PS3)
andthebeatgoeson
Junior Member
Franks and beans? Bail out! :lolMetal Gear?! said:
BishopLamont
Banned
Worldwide.Ragyy said: