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Introducing NeoGAF Gold
Media Create Sales: Week 24, 2015 (Jun 08 - Jun 14)
- Thread starter Chris1964
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Playing something that isn't a rhythm game.
Waiting for Persona 5.
Tired of Persona 4.
DAN is also the only recent Persona spinoff to launch without an accompanying anime series.
While each game has its own audience, this summer is kind of insane for the genre too. You have Rhythm Heaven out right now, Persona 4 DAN, Deemo and Taiko V Version in the next few weeks and then IA/VT Colorful in August.
Waiting for Persona 5.
Tired of Persona 4.
DAN is also the only recent Persona spinoff to launch without an accompanying anime series.
While each game has its own audience, this summer is kind of insane for the genre too. You have Rhythm Heaven out right now, Persona 4 DAN, Deemo and Taiko V Version in the next few weeks and then IA/VT Colorful in August.
- Aug 7, 2013
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Well, despite the narrative of Nintendo being out of touch with its fans... this game is tailor made for its fan with many much needed fixes and updates to old systems. 
Such a bizarre company, I blame Reggie warping our perspective.
Such a bizarre company, I blame Reggie warping our perspective.
The announcement of Metroid was just poorly thought out and the backlash illustrates that narrative completely.
It's like having the Pokemon IP dormant for a number of years (five in this case) and the next reveal of the franchise would be... Pokemon Dancing.
TPC would be dead. Nintendo didn't think this through.
Vena pls, where's Kirby.
Well, ya, that's brand growth 101 but you still have to strive and work for pleasing the fans. FE:A had some stumbling blocks where it really did do some things very badly for older, core fans of the series and pissed them off/pushed them away. You can see changes to that end showing up in FE:If with the two modes, the re-balancing of the Party-Up, the adjustments to the weapon triangle, and so on.
FE:A was a very unbalanced game from the perspective of an older FE fan. And Nohr seems to have been tailor made for that older fan, while Phoenix Mode and Hoshido is very much made for the "new" fan who pushed the game into a mainstream success.
... I'd argue we're seeing the opposite out of the Persona team/SEGA, lol.
Indeed. Pity, too, because I think Tanabe's concept behind it is solid. His interviews are quite clear that he sees this as a Metroid Prime game, and that this is the best he can do for the time being between main-line Primes.
This is where a developer interview on the DE would have been great. Tanabe is one of the big heads behind the Prime series, and if you had put him out there being humble with his presentation and explaining his idea, I think the reaction would have been very different.
On vacation.
FE:A was a very unbalanced game from the perspective of an older FE fan. And Nohr seems to have been tailor made for that older fan, while Phoenix Mode and Hoshido is very much made for the "new" fan who pushed the game into a mainstream success.
... I'd argue we're seeing the opposite out of the Persona team/SEGA, lol.
Indeed. Pity, too, because I think Tanabe's concept behind it is solid. His interviews are quite clear that he sees this as a Metroid Prime game, and that this is the best he can do for the time being between main-line Primes.
This is where a developer interview on the DE would have been great. Tanabe is one of the big heads behind the Prime series, and if you had put him out there being humble with his presentation and explaining his idea, I think the reaction would have been very different.
On vacation.
Man, who was that guy claiming that P4D was going to be the worst performing spin-off? Heh, might have totally proved me wrong. I thought P4D was definitely going to perform better than P4AU, as a fighting game spin-off sequel, especially since P4D has been getting a lot of marketing.
Wait, which were the ones for Persona 4 Arena Ultimax and Persona Q? Oh you mean the Persona 4 Golden anime? I guess.
Wait, which were the ones for Persona 4 Arena Ultimax and Persona Q? Oh you mean the Persona 4 Golden anime? I guess.
Nothing in the long run, but that's not what I was talking about when talking about the other user I was having this debate with before. FW sales was what we were talking about back then, based on Comgnet numbers, so you're addressing a different point than my original post was.
For LTD? Sure, of course that's possible for a rhythm game. Several rhythm games have done that.
For LTD? Sure, of course that's possible for a rhythm game. Several rhythm games have done that.
Isn't it at like 120K?
Anyway if DAN can get some decent legs, perhaps it could make it.
I'm not quite sure on everything, but was ARR the first of FFXIV?
If so these are FW sales.
FFXIV:ARR (PS3 + PS4) - 218K
DQX v1 (WIU + WII) - 456K
FFXIV:HS (PS3 + PS4) - < 140K
DQX v2 (WIU + WII) - 179K
I can't find data for FFXIV that isn't ARR, so this might be a little off.
Anyway if DAN can get some decent legs, perhaps it could make it.
I'm not quite sure on everything, but was ARR the first of FFXIV?
If so these are FW sales.
FFXIV:ARR (PS3 + PS4) - 218K
DQX v1 (WIU + WII) - 456K
FFXIV:HS (PS3 + PS4) - < 140K
DQX v2 (WIU + WII) - 179K
I can't find data for FFXIV that isn't ARR, so this might be a little off.
- Aug 7, 2013
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1.2 million DLC sold solely in Japan (other territories excluded) - revenue of 380 million yen minimum.
And that was back in 2012.
http://www.siliconera.com/2012/09/22/fire-emblem-awakening-dlc-sales-in-japan-are-doing-well/
FE:If is superior
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
And that was back in 2012.
http://www.siliconera.com/2012/09/22/fire-emblem-awakening-dlc-sales-in-japan-are-doing-well/
FE:If is superior
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
The last two Fire Emblem games are a great example of how to handle a franchise well and capitalize on its success.
With Fire Emblem: Awakening, Intelligent Systems found themselves in a position where they had to sell 180,000 copies or lose the series. As such, instead of playing it safe, they decided to do what was essentially a reboot and put all their effort into making it a notable success. They set it 1000 years after the first game within the same world. They got a new character designer who better matched the taste of the market. They made it way more accessible for first time players. They ensured the graphics were of high quality for the genre and platform. They added in a bunch of new features like team attacks, marriage, children, and reclassing. They put in a bunch of CG cutscenes for key points in the story and made sure they looked good. They let you create and customize your own character. They put a whole bunch of voice acting the game. They included a strong DLC campaign of both free and paid content with frequent updates to encourage people to hang on to the game and keep playing. In the end, they ended up sell almost exactly 10 times their sales target. For a dying series this was a very risky move, but absolutely the correct one, and paid off in spades.
Now, at this point, a lot of developers, especially domestically, would rest on their laurels on ship a minorly upgraded version of the same vision, feeling that they had found the formula for success and should stick to it. This is how you get products like Tales of Xillia 2, Final Fantasy XIII-2, or Bravely Second. However, where Intelligent Systems got this incredibly right (for the second time in a row) was that they instead said "Now how do we take what we did and make just as big a jump as we did last time?" They decided to build three campaigns, one for newer/more casual players, one for older players/those who want something more difficult, with a DLC campaign afterwards for both. They added in a town building system with notable social hooks. They put in a bunch of new classes. They majorly redesigned core systems like the weapon triangle and weapon durability. They added in a ton of new victory conditions for battles. They changed up how the world map works. They made the battlefields change mid-match. It feels like we've seen more CG in the trailers for this game than even existed in the last game. They made sure to retain and enhance popular features from the last game, for example keeping the team attacks, but letting enemies use them too to improve the balance. This is a game that feels like a major step forward for the series, so it's not shocking that it's getting a very positive reception and is poised to sell better than the last one.
This is the same strategy that built the mega blockbusters we see in the West, and those who didn't keep up got shut down. The lower effort spin-offs we see abroad also see the same sales drop as games I listed below (Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel, Battlefield Hardline, God of War: Ascension, Gears of War: Judgement, Arkham Origins, Assassin's Creed: Revelations). Of course, the reason we don't see this as often in Japan is that this is very expensive. If you have to make a major leap forward with every entry, pretty soon your costs get very high unless you're constantly pioneering ways to work more and more efficiently. Even then, you're usually looking at some healthy cost expansion. When you're in a dying market, that can be intimidating. Fire Emblem has 1.2+ million copies sold in the West to help bolster confidence, whereas that's certainly not true of every franchise in the region.
With Fire Emblem: Awakening, Intelligent Systems found themselves in a position where they had to sell 180,000 copies or lose the series. As such, instead of playing it safe, they decided to do what was essentially a reboot and put all their effort into making it a notable success. They set it 1000 years after the first game within the same world. They got a new character designer who better matched the taste of the market. They made it way more accessible for first time players. They ensured the graphics were of high quality for the genre and platform. They added in a bunch of new features like team attacks, marriage, children, and reclassing. They put in a bunch of CG cutscenes for key points in the story and made sure they looked good. They let you create and customize your own character. They put a whole bunch of voice acting the game. They included a strong DLC campaign of both free and paid content with frequent updates to encourage people to hang on to the game and keep playing. In the end, they ended up sell almost exactly 10 times their sales target. For a dying series this was a very risky move, but absolutely the correct one, and paid off in spades.
Now, at this point, a lot of developers, especially domestically, would rest on their laurels on ship a minorly upgraded version of the same vision, feeling that they had found the formula for success and should stick to it. This is how you get products like Tales of Xillia 2, Final Fantasy XIII-2, or Bravely Second. However, where Intelligent Systems got this incredibly right (for the second time in a row) was that they instead said "Now how do we take what we did and make just as big a jump as we did last time?" They decided to build three campaigns, one for newer/more casual players, one for older players/those who want something more difficult, with a DLC campaign afterwards for both. They added in a town building system with notable social hooks. They put in a bunch of new classes. They majorly redesigned core systems like the weapon triangle and weapon durability. They added in a ton of new victory conditions for battles. They changed up how the world map works. They made the battlefields change mid-match. It feels like we've seen more CG in the trailers for this game than even existed in the last game. They made sure to retain and enhance popular features from the last game, for example keeping the team attacks, but letting enemies use them too to improve the balance. This is a game that feels like a major step forward for the series, so it's not shocking that it's getting a very positive reception and is poised to sell better than the last one.
This is the same strategy that built the mega blockbusters we see in the West, and those who didn't keep up got shut down. The lower effort spin-offs we see abroad also see the same sales drop as games I listed below (Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel, Battlefield Hardline, God of War: Ascension, Gears of War: Judgement, Arkham Origins, Assassin's Creed: Revelations). Of course, the reason we don't see this as often in Japan is that this is very expensive. If you have to make a major leap forward with every entry, pretty soon your costs get very high unless you're constantly pioneering ways to work more and more efficiently. Even then, you're usually looking at some healthy cost expansion. When you're in a dying market, that can be intimidating. Fire Emblem has 1.2+ million copies sold in the West to help bolster confidence, whereas that's certainly not true of every franchise in the region.
Fire Emblem's Dogma Online instead of Fire Emblem Musou? I can dig it.
EDIT: On the note of Bravely: If SE wanted to rescue the series(they don't) they could wait until the 3DS' sucessor/NX and launch a Bravely Default 2(pretty much demoting Second from mainline) set in a new world with a new cast of characters.
EDIT: On the note of Bravely: If SE wanted to rescue the series(they don't) they could wait until the 3DS' sucessor/NX and launch a Bravely Default 2(pretty much demoting Second from mainline) set in a new world with a new cast of characters.
I feel they'd also need to pour in appropriate resources into everything else as well, but yes.
Combining this with this:
Basically the value of brands is that they get a lot of people to look at your game in the first place, but what largely determines your sales is the actual product you're shipping and how it compares to the current tastes and state of the market.
They should definitely not be viewed as a limiter (either ceiling or floor) of sales for a video game, and instead the core product should be looked at heavily as well.
Combining this with this:
Basically the value of brands is that they get a lot of people to look at your game in the first place, but what largely determines your sales is the actual product you're shipping and how it compares to the current tastes and state of the market.
They should definitely not be viewed as a limiter (either ceiling or floor) of sales for a video game, and instead the core product should be looked at heavily as well.
- Aug 7, 2013
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The Fire Emblem series is now among Nintendo's B tier franchises - it's a great place to be at as it wasn't last generation.
A tier:
- Animal Crossing
- Pokemon
- Mario
- Super Smash
In between:
- Zelda
- Tomodachi
B tier:
- Kirby
- Fire Emblem
- Donkey Kong
C tier:
- Metroid
- Star Fox
- F-Zero
Anything else I might have missed?
A tier:
- Animal Crossing
- Pokemon
- Mario
- Super Smash
In between:
- Zelda
- Tomodachi
B tier:
- Kirby
- Fire Emblem
- Donkey Kong
C tier:
- Metroid
- Star Fox
- F-Zero
Anything else I might have missed?
The Kart series is pretty much in a league of its own at this point. (I wouldn't be surprised if Mario Kart 9 started outright becoming Smash/Nintendo Kart 1.)
Xenoblade is C-tier at current (I'd move your C-tier to D-tier), if we consider it a franchise. And I don't think we'll not see more of it as it fills in a major RPG gap for the company, and next time around Monolith might not get bridled with HD asset generation for half a generation just because Nintendo tripped out of the gate with the 3DS and HD development. (Unless #FE completely over-performs vs. my expectations.)
That's it I think, or at least that I can remember of the top of my head. Splatoon has the makings of a new B-tier.
Xenoblade is C-tier at current (I'd move your C-tier to D-tier), if we consider it a franchise. And I don't think we'll not see more of it as it fills in a major RPG gap for the company, and next time around Monolith might not get bridled with HD asset generation for half a generation just because Nintendo tripped out of the gate with the 3DS and HD development. (Unless #FE completely over-performs vs. my expectations.)
That's it I think, or at least that I can remember of the top of my head. Splatoon has the makings of a new B-tier.
Honestly, in my mind, Mario Kart is evolving into Nintendo Kart, which is why I say what I said. The old "Mario and Co" is gone with MK8 and that was much to the excitement of many fans. Though they will likely keep the brand for the name recognition even if it ultimately does become Super Smash Kart. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if MK9 launched with a Smash-like roster.
As for Splatoon, ya, its untested long-term as a brand.
Also where do we fit the Mii-brand? Does that count? Or the Wario brand? Or Yoshi?
As for Splatoon, ya, its untested long-term as a brand.
Also where do we fit the Mii-brand? Does that count? Or the Wario brand? Or Yoshi?
That's real nice for Rhythm Heaven. Seems that Fire Emblem is poised to do well. That's great, and Nirolak's explanation as to why this sequel is pulling the numbers makes sense.
As for Nintendo franchise rankings, I made this by myself sometime ago. Criteria involves an incredibly complex formula involving sales, popularity, critical reception, gamer cred, mass awareness, recentness, visibility in Smash Bros, and my own buttocks.
S: Mario, Pokemon
A: Zelda, Animal Crossing, Super Smash Bros., Donkey Kong
B: Kirby, Metroid, Yoshi, Wario, Wii, Fire Emblem, Nintendogs, Tomodachi, Splatoon
C: Star Fox, Kid Icarus, Xenoblade, Rhythm Heaven, Touch Generations, Punch Out, Pikmin, Nintendo Land, Style Savvy
D: F-Zero, Mother, Golden Sun, Advance Wars, Game & Watch, Pushmo, Dillon's Rolling Western, Chibi-Robo, Steel Diver, Box Boy, The Wonderful 101, Codename Steam, Art Academy, Rusty's Real Deal Baseball, Fatal Frame, Fossil Fighters
E: Ice Climber, Excitebike, Starfy, Sin & Punishment, Duck Hunt, Custom Robo
F: Gyromite, Urban Champion, For the Frog the Bell Tolls, The Mysterious Murasame Castle, Sheriff, Devil World, Panel de Pon
Obviously this list is mutable, and I'm sure there are several franchises I've forgotten or can be changed. But this is probably a reasonable list of where most of them stand.
As for Nintendo franchise rankings, I made this by myself sometime ago. Criteria involves an incredibly complex formula involving sales, popularity, critical reception, gamer cred, mass awareness, recentness, visibility in Smash Bros, and my own buttocks.
S: Mario, Pokemon
A: Zelda, Animal Crossing, Super Smash Bros., Donkey Kong
B: Kirby, Metroid, Yoshi, Wario, Wii, Fire Emblem, Nintendogs, Tomodachi, Splatoon
C: Star Fox, Kid Icarus, Xenoblade, Rhythm Heaven, Touch Generations, Punch Out, Pikmin, Nintendo Land, Style Savvy
D: F-Zero, Mother, Golden Sun, Advance Wars, Game & Watch, Pushmo, Dillon's Rolling Western, Chibi-Robo, Steel Diver, Box Boy, The Wonderful 101, Codename Steam, Art Academy, Rusty's Real Deal Baseball, Fatal Frame, Fossil Fighters
E: Ice Climber, Excitebike, Starfy, Sin & Punishment, Duck Hunt, Custom Robo
F: Gyromite, Urban Champion, For the Frog the Bell Tolls, The Mysterious Murasame Castle, Sheriff, Devil World, Panel de Pon
Obviously this list is mutable, and I'm sure there are several franchises I've forgotten or can be changed. But this is probably a reasonable list of where most of them stand.