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[Creamium]

Seriously, I'm still not yet convinced it's The Boss's grave. Even if Snake found out about the whole thing, why would he give a shit about her? I'd expect him to salute Big Boss's gravestone.

He wouldn't give a shit about The Boss per se, but he wóuld give a shit about her relation to Big Boss and the story behind that tombstone. So if he knows, the whole thing makes sense, otherwise...

Extra Q: Why is Otacon crying on the heli? And are those his glasses or are they Emma's? Damn I want to play the game now.

My guess he's thinking about his sister.

 

[mckmas8808]

MGS3's textures > MGS4's lololol

Seriously, I'm still not yet convinced it's The Boss's grave. Even if Snake found out about the whole thing, why would he give a shit about her? I'd expect him to salute Big Boss's gravestone.

How could you not be conviced? It right there.

 

[Lord Error]

Seriously, I'm still not yet convinced it's The Boss's grave. Even if Snake found out about the whole thing, why would he give a shit about her? I'd expect him to salute Big Boss's gravestone.

She was like a mother to Big Boss, and more, so it's like she's part of the family.

 

[GotchaForce]

I'm dying to play MGO now, hopefully it'll help clue us into why Snake cares about the Boss and so forth.

 

[jett]

How could you not be conviced? It right there.

Eh, it could be anybody's tomb. I'm more inclined to believe it's Emma's or Greyfox's. It's not like The Boss's body was recovered or anything. Whatever tomb Big Boss saluted in MGS3 was just a symbolic one anyway. Her name isn't on either.

If it is, it seems like a stretch to me, to connect The Boss to Solid Snake. A big stretch. Grandmother or not.

 

[mckmas8808]

Eh, it could be anybody's tomb. I'm more inclined to believe it's Emma's or Greyfox's. It's not like The Boss's body was recovered or anything. Whatever tomb Big Boss saluted in MGS3 was just a symbolic one anyway. Her name isn't on either.

If it is, it seems like a stretch to me, to connect The Boss to Solid Snake. A big stretch. Grandmother or not.

Your right about the tomb in MGS3 could be anybody. But that is the same tomb in MGS4. So maybe the tomb in MGS3 isn't The Boss. That's the only way your right.

 

[Kittonwy]

So does everybody agree that the cemetry Old Snake is at is the sameone at the end of MGS3?

If not just out this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqxf5eLscxA&mode=related&search=

What do you think now?

More importantly it seems that the flower Naked Snake placed on the Boss' grave ended up spreading all over the cemetry, I would have thought the field would be blooming patriot guns instead.

 

[Kittonwy]

The only thing that might have been downgraded is the hair, but it's really hard to tell.

And yeah, the mustache was definitely upgraded. It's down right revolting to look at now.

Also that picture just guves you an idea of how good the skin shaders in this game are, it's still noticable despite the bluriness and compression of the caps. Download the trailer to be truly blown away.

Snake should buy a box of Just For Men and brush it in, and rinse after 5 minutes for a youthful look that no one will suspect.

 

[mckmas8808]

Snake should buy a box of Just For Men and brush it in, and rinse after 5 minutes for a youthful look that no one will suspect.

That would make it too brown and would match with his hair on top of his head.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Eh, it could be anybody's tomb. I'm more inclined to believe it's Emma's or Greyfox's. It's not like The Boss's body was recovered or anything. Whatever tomb Big Boss saluted in MGS3 was just a symbolic one anyway. Her name isn't on either.

It is her tomb though. He likely had it made for her but didn't put her name on it because he knew that it'd be destroyed if it was publically known who's grave it was. So there's just a message left (and the date she was born and died) which shows that its her.

The MGS3 grave

MGS4

 

[jett]

It is her tomb though. He likely had it made for her but didn't put her name on it because he knew that it'd be destroyed if it was publically known who's grave it was. So there's just a message left (and the date she was born and died) which shows that its her.

The MGS3 grave

MGS4

I'm sure the tomb in MGS3 is her tomb. I'm just not sure about MGS4, despite the apparently identical text. The environment looks pretty different, not just the flowers on the ground either

 

[mckmas8808]

I'm sure the tomb in MGS3 is her tomb. I'm just not sure about MGS4, despite the apparently identical text. The environment looks pretty different, not just the flowers on the ground either

So the text is exactly the same now, but for some reason you still don't believe. -_-

 

[SolidSnakex]

I thought it looked different initially also, and some things are different. But there are similarities too, like on the right side (and behind) Snake in both scenes there's a tree. There's also the same path that Snake walks down in the MGS3 scene and that Otacon and Campbell land on.

And speaking of that tree, leaves!

 

[Amir0x]

Not that I think you are wrong, but why would Liquid Ocelot tell Snake?

Liquid Ocelot wants to realize the dream world that Big Boss had in mind, apparently - at least that's what some of the dialogue in the trailer would lead us to believe. In this sense, Old Snake is trying to STOP it... and erase the MEME from the earth forever. It would be ideal if Liquid Ocelot could convince Old Snake that his idealistic view of his country/employers is warped, and "here's why." The revelation would no doubt come as a shock to Snake, and it makes even more sense when he recognizes that he must wipe out his genes.

 

[Kittonwy]

I'm sure the tomb in MGS3 is her tomb. I'm just not sure about MGS4, despite the apparently identical text. The environment looks pretty different, not just the flowers on the ground either

The flowers are the same kind as the one Big Boss laid on her tomb, it's evident that it ended up spreading all over the cemetry.

 

[jett]

I thought it looked different initially also, and some things are different. But there are similarities too, like on the right side (and behind) Snake in both scenes there's a tree. There's also the same path that Snake walks down in the MGS3 scene and that Otacon and Campbell land on.

And speaking of that tree, leaves!

Marty Chinn rejoices.

And fine guys it's the boss's tomb.

 

[Raiden]

Its the same graveyard, but i refuse to believe that Solid is saluting to "The Boss" her grave, i think Kojima wants us to believe he's doing it though. Who knows, Raiden dies, and the same text is putted on his grave.

 

[Amir0x]

Its the same graveyard, but i refuse to believe that Solid is saluting to "The Boss" her grave, i think Kojima wants us to believe he's doing it though. Who knows, Raiden dies, and the same text is putted on his grave.

lamest twist ever

it's THE BOSS

 

[SolidSnakex]

If it is someone elses grave then I don't think it'd be Raiden. He meets Snake in the middle east where he says he's going to protect him and Snake goes there after saltuing that grave. So it'd have to be someone that we haven't seen yet as all of the characters we saw (with the exception of Campbell and Otacon) were in the middle east. Well, unless Raiden is dead and he's resurrected as that new Raiden.

 

[Raiden]

lamest twist ever

it's THE BOSS

Oh please, Solid Snake aint like that, he never knew her, and he aint that much of a patriot, he fights for what he believes in, not for his country, so saluting his grandmother he never knew, that died for her country that betrayed her...thah.


I can see him saluting over Greyfox and Big Boss though, but not The Boss.

 

[Y2Kev]

The text is pretty worn...

It would have to be a pretty old grave. Or it would have to be like....chemically weathered.

 

[Amir0x]

Oh please, Solid Snake aint like that, he never knew her, and he aint that much of a patriot, he fights for what he believes in, not for his country, so saluting his grandmother he never knew, that died for her country that betrayed her...thah.


I can see him saluting over Greyfox and Big Boss though, but not The Boss.

Snake is exactly like that in his old age.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Oh please, Solid Snake aint like that, he never knew her, and he aint that much of a patriot, he fights for what he believes in, not for his country, so saluting his grandmother he never knew, that died for her country that betrayed her...thah.

If he's saluting that grave, it'd mean he's found out about Big Boss. In which case it could be more about him saltuing Big Boss and not so much The boss. He doesn't have a grave so there would be no other place to go than the person that raised him.

 

[karasu]

Oh please, Solid Snake aint like that, he never knew her, and he aint that much of a patriot, he fights for what he believes in, not for his country, so saluting his grandmother he never knew, that died for her country that betrayed her...thah.


I can see him saluting over Greyfox and Big Boss though, but not The Boss.

He doesn't have to know her to pay his respects. He'd probably feel connected to her regardless.

 

[Datrio]

You're failing to see one thing.

At the end of MGS2, I think Snake didn't look at Big Boss as a murderer and a maniac. He looked upon him as a soldier, who fought for what he believed him. Liquid and Gray Fox made him change his mind in MGS.

And The Boss was Big Boss's mentor. Her story is the most tragic one ever written - Naked Snake just had to kill the one he loved, only because of politics. She was a true Patriot.

I don't know how Solid Snake learned about it, but it's plain normal that he saluted her grave. Wouldn't you do it in his place, if you learned the truth?

 

[Kittonwy]

That's so sexy.

 

[Kittonwy]

He doesn't have to know her to pay his respects. He'd probably feel connected to her regardless.

Could bits and pieces of Big Boss' memories pass onto his clones?

 

[Sallokin]

You're failing to see one thing.

At the end of MGS2, I think Snake didn't look at Big Boss as a murderer and a maniac. He looked upon him as a soldier, who fought for what he believed him. Liquid and Gray Fox made him change his mind in MGS.

And The Boss was Big Boss's mentor. Her story is the most tragic one ever written - Naked Snake just had to kill the one he loved, only because of politics. She was a true Patriot.

I don't know how Solid Snake learned about it, but it's plain normal that he saluted her grave. Wouldn't you do it in his place, if you learned the truth?

At the end of MGS2 or MG2? I don't recall anything at the end of MGS2 that really definitively suggests that his opinion of Big Boss had changed.

If I had to guess how he found out about the boss though, I'd say that either Liquid Ocelot tells him, or Otacon has stumbled upon it somehow. I'd place more stock in the latter as Otacon should be pretty well versed in hacking and finding out government secrets.

 

[Wollan]

I just read through the MGS E3 pamphlet. Great stuff, made me pop in MGO again.

 

[SolidSnakex]

If I had to guess how he found out about the boss though, I'd say that either Liquid Ocelot tells him, or Otacon has stumbled upon it somehow. I'd place more stock in the latter as Otacon should be pretty well versed in hacking and finding out government secrets.

While its a slim possiblity if Eva does return she could be the one that tells him. She's one of the few that knows the whoel story behind The Boss and Snake. But yah as of now it looks like Otacon is the best possiblity. He said characters from all 3 games will be returning and so far that breaks down like this

MGS: Meryl, Otacon, Liquid, Campbell, Ocelot and Naomi
MGS2: Raiden and Vamp
MGS3: ??

Now aside from people being brought back from the dead, Eva, Sigint and Para Medic should all be alive for MGS4.

 

[Sallokin]

While its a slim possiblity if Eva does return she could be the one that tells him. She's one of the few that knows the whoel story behind The Boss and Snake. But yah as of now it looks like Otacon is the best possiblity. He said characters from all 3 games will be returning and so far that breaks down like this

MGS: Meryl, Otacon, Liquid, Campbell, Ocelot and Naomi
MGS2: Raiden and Vamp
MGS3: ??

Now aside from people being brought back from the dead, Eva, Sigint and Para Medic should all be alive for MGS4.

Isn't Sigint the DARPA Chief from MGS? Or did I just read a bit too much into that? I was under the impression that the only returning characters from MGS3 would be Big Boss and Ocelot.

 

[drohne]

snake tries to track down the patriots after mgs2, right? it's very possible he'd find out about the events of mgs3 while investigating the patriots. i don't think it requires a returning character or a big revelation scene...though who knows how it'll play out.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Isn't Sigint the DARPA Chief from MGS? Or did I just read a bit too much into that?

You know, I never put those 2 together but it makes sense. He went on to join ARPA which later became DARPA. So it's a good possiblity that he was.

I was under the impression that the only returning characters from MGS3 would be Big Boss and Ocelot.

I think BB will be in it also, but Kojima won't confirm it. When he was questioned about why he's in the original art for MGS4 he said he had nothing to do with it and it was all Shinkawa's doing (yah right). I don't really know if i'd count them because that wasn't the first time we saw them. Even though its the first in the timeline, we saw them all before MGS3.

 

[Sallokin]

You know, I never put those 2 together but it makes sense. He went on to join ARPA which later became DARPA. So it's a good possiblity that he was.



I think BB will be in it also, but Kojima won't confirm it. When he was questioned about why he's in the original art for MGS4 he said he had nothing to do with it and it was all Shinkawa's doing (yah right). I don't really know if i'd count them because that wasn't the first time we saw them. Even though its the first in the timeline, we saw them all before MGS3.

Yeah I based my assumptions on the artwork that was released. I hadn't heard that little tidbit from Kojima though. It's going to be a long wait until TGS.

 

[Kittonwy]

You know, I never put those 2 together but it makes sense. He went on to join ARPA which later became DARPA. So it's a good possiblity that he was.



I think BB will be in it also, but Kojima won't confirm it. When he was questioned about why he's in the original art for MGS4 he said he had nothing to do with it and it was all Shinkawa's doing (yah right). I don't really know if i'd count them because that wasn't the first time we saw them. Even though its the first in the timeline, we saw them all before MGS3.

BB has the only cure for SS's condition though.

 

[Vagrant]

I thought everyone knew Snake learned who The Boss was, along with CQC in MGS3 and MPO. Both of which are really just VR simulations that Solid Snake went through to learn about the Patriots and Big Boss. This was set up by Col. Cambell, and constructed from the memories extracted from the cells in Big Boss' remains, eye witness accounts, and the files on the mission kept by the Patriots (that Otacon had retrieved from hacking Arsenal Gear). When Snake failed, or did something wildly inconsistent with the mission parameters outlined from what they knew definitely happened during the mission, the Colonel would reset the machine, while scolding Snake that his actions would create a time paradox had it been real.

Seriously though, I have no idea if they plan on connecting The Boss to Solid Snake, but I wouldn't discount any theory (except maybe the one I just mentioned or time travel). Especially since this is a series that contains: a transplanted arm that can take over its host body, vampires, someone who can shoot bees from their mouth, and a women lucky enough to divert missiles fired at her, excetera. The possibilites for how they could handle it or those other mysteries are endless considering how crazy the plot already is.

 

[Oldschoolgamer]

I thought everyone knew Snake learned who The Boss was, along with CQC in MGS3 and MPO. Both of which are really just VR simulations that Solid Snake went through to learn about the Patriots and Big Boss. This was set up by Col. Cambell, and constructed from the memories extracted from the cells in Big Boss' remains, eye witness accounts, and the files on the mission kept by the Patriots (that Otacon had retrieved from hacking Arsenal Gear). When Snake failed, or did something wildly inconsistent with the mission parameters outlined from what they knew definitely happened during the mission, the Colonel would reset the machine, while scolding Snake that his actions would create a time paradox had it been real.

Seriously though, I have no idea if they plan on connecting The Boss to Solid Snake, but I wouldn't discount any theory (except maybe the one I just mentioned or time travel). Especially since this is a series that contains: a transplanted arm that can take over its host body, vampires, someone who can shoot bees from their mouth, and a women lucky enough to divert missiles fired at her, excetera. The possibilites for how they could handle it or those other mysteries are endless considering how crazy the plot already is.

??? MGS3 was a VR mission?

 

[Bad_Boy]

??? MGS3 was a VR mission?

 

[mckmas8808]

About time you join up here.

 

[bluemax]

??? MGS3 was a VR mission?

I told myself to stop reading this thread when the MGS3 spoilers started getting heavier the other night (since Im playing the game again and slow to finish) and now this. Oi.

 

[SolidSnakex]

snake tries to track down the patriots after mgs2, right? it's very possible he'd find out about the events of mgs3 while investigating the patriots. i don't think it requires a returning character or a big revelation scene...though who knows how it'll play out.

That was the plan although it doesn't look like they've made a whole lot of progress since that time. It's been 6 years since then and they've just not tracked down Liquid Ocelot. Raiden was supopse to go back with Rose, so who knows what happened to him. It's not hard to guess what's been going on with Snake over that time. Everyone else seems to be pretty much in the same shape as they were over those years. It's possible that Otacon just stumbled across it in his findings though if that Patriots really left that much of a trail for people to follow.

And no MGS3 wasn't a VR Mission. That was just one of the theories before MGS3 was released on why we were playing as Big Boss. There were alot of those goign around then. Another one was that the jungle in the original trailer was fake, and Kojima had just thrown it together as a way to mislead people on the games real location.

 

[Yoboman]

The Boss was the last child of the Philosophers, that probably has something to do with why he is there

 

[Celtic Guardian]

At the end of MGS2, Otocon found out that all the Patriots were DEAD! It was a good thoery, but would never work.

 

[RamzaIsCool]

What I don't get is what Snake is trying to accomplish by blowing his brains out, isn't he himself created from genes of a dead Big Boss? So wouldn't that make commiting suicide like that pretty useless, if his goal is to exterminates his genes from this world!

 

[robertsan21]

What I don't get is what Snake is trying to accomplish by blowing his brains out, isn't he himself created from genes of a dead Big Boss? So wouldn't that make commiting suicide like that pretty useless, if his goal is to exterminates his genes from this world!

only way for him to exterminate his genes must be to jump in liquid steel....or magma or something like that!

shooting himself in the head doesnt exterminate his genes does it?

 

[Yoboman]

At the end of MGS2, Otocon found out that all the Patriots were DEAD! It was a good thoery, but would never work.

No shit, and the Boss was the last remaining child of the dead Philosophers/Patriots

 

[Zenith]

At the end of MGS2, Otocon found out that all the Patriots were DEAD!

and at the end of MGS3 you learn it's their descendents who are the Patriots now.

 

[SolidSnakex]

only way for him to exterminate his genes must be to jump in liquid steel....or magma or something like that!

shooting himself in the head doesnt exterminate his genes does it?

Well when he puts the gun in his mouth there's a voice over meaning he's not saying it during that scene. It's happening someone else, he seems to be talking to someone. So if its Otacon he'll probably know what to do with his body if he does it. I think he is going to die in MGS4, I just want it to be him commiting suicide instead of being killed by someone.

 

[OatmealMu]

If he actually does put a bullet into his head, I wonder if Kojima will mimic a certain scene in MGS3.

 

[Zabojnik]

Say you're a total noob when it comes to MGS, but you get MGS4 and want to know like EXACTLY what happened in the series. Story, characters, relationships, facts, anything. What's the place (on the internet) to go to?

Not that that's my case exactly, since I played every major MGS game there is, but even I don't remember everything - and reading various MGS threads I can see that I'm not the only one.