lostinblue
Banned
Because it is a cheap, lazy port now.infinityBCRT said:
sfried said:
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MGS: Snake Eater 3DS - New Trailer [Update Rumor: Delayed?]
- Thread starter Speedymanic
- Start date
infinityBCRT
Member
sfried said:
Its wishful thinking. Reality is 3DS hasn't been selling well, 3DS controls aren't suited for a game like this, and the HD Collection version is the one that most people will get. And even that isn't a lock to sell well IMO. Theres way too many good games coming out in November. Would've made much more sense for them to hold off these HD Collections until next June/July/August when nothing was coming out and they would be able to tie it into the anniversary as well.
Also, you don't automatically make more money by spending more time on a project. If the world worked like that then we'd always see companies spend more time on projects like this, because above all else, these companies care about money. These guys have a budget which is based on a projection of expected sales.
lostinblue
Banned
Of course, because they shot their own game.infinityBCRT said:
Not only it's "just" MGS3 on a portable going against a bundle of MGS games, they're also making it look worse and worse (and a worse effort) every day that passes.
Of course the informed consumer won't be suddenly full of faith in the product. We had it, at one point.
Oh it will, it's Metal Gear Solid.infinityBCRT said:
I agree with the last part though, they would have been wiser keeping it under wraps for a while longer, wait till they released the 3DS game and sold a few units (most "hardcore" sales are done within the first few months anyway) and only afterwards announce a port.
They wouldn't have killed their product that way.
infinityBCRT
Member
Lesiroth said:
... and Kojima is not really actively working on Rising. Fox Engine is the project hes focusing on right now. KojiPro itself is just a bigger company now so they can handle more projects at once.
Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
Eh... am I getting this right?
1. The 3DS gets near (?) perfect PS2 ports (Tales of).
2. The 3DS gets near (?) perfect Wii ports (One Piece).
3. The 3DS gets competent PS360 ports (SSFIV).
4. The 3DS gets incredible new games (RE: Revelations) that visually are much closer to current than last gen titles (RE5 vs RE4), shiny shaders and all.
5. The 3DS gets all that and more in 3D as launch window/first gen titles.
And one shoddy PS2 port is enough for people to go all "lolz shitty hardware can't even handle PS2 games" and argue for pages while ignoring 1.2.3.4.5.?
Well, lol.
1. The 3DS gets near (?) perfect PS2 ports (Tales of).
2. The 3DS gets near (?) perfect Wii ports (One Piece).
3. The 3DS gets competent PS360 ports (SSFIV).
4. The 3DS gets incredible new games (RE: Revelations) that visually are much closer to current than last gen titles (RE5 vs RE4), shiny shaders and all.
5. The 3DS gets all that and more in 3D as launch window/first gen titles.
And one shoddy PS2 port is enough for people to go all "lolz shitty hardware can't even handle PS2 games" and argue for pages while ignoring 1.2.3.4.5.?
Well, lol.
lostinblue
Banned
I'm not bitter, I'm expressive. One has to be expressive to make a point across in the internet.Lesiroth said:
New Zoe has been teased to no end (and now they are even teasing ZoE 3DS apparently)
Tech demos and ports count as long as they're being done in-house. The guy is clearly stretching out too thin to have control over anything/being able to do proper deliveries of the projects he was involved at first. And MGS 3DS was one of those at first.
Resources are not infinite, and a brand has to be taken care of with care. Kojima doesn't seem to understand neither of that, to me.
You're free to disagree, but I'm still not pleased by this port. Less and less, tbh.
They're just stretching themselves too thin. Which was my point, thanks. Because they're still the same entity, Kojima stands for them all and mgs 3ds at least was his brainchild. Until he dropped it into a gutter.infinityBCRT said:
They started doing this one as they wanted, properly; and using the hardware, again, properly. Halfway they realized they had way too much on their table, and they proceeded destroying the quality of the initial production and now they've taken that a few steps further; does that mean they're very competent, that they have good planning or that they're all over the place? to me there's just one answer, they're all over the place (and IMO, they've been for a while; MGS:Rising wasn't shown at E3 for a reason I insist, seems like it's having problems taking form). And do you think this is a isolate case?
I doubt it.
Gouda Jouji
Member
I don't think he's even actively working Rising or MGS3D. Whenever they've been talked about (post announcement) it's always been Shigenobu Matsuyama (Rising) or Yoshikazu Matsumana (MGS3D) doing the presentation/interview/etc.
infinityBCRT
Member
The initial "production" was not a game. It was a tech demo created from scratch using the Peace Walker engine to see what the system could do, and at that point they hadn't even decided if they were going to do MGS3 for 3DS yet. They didn't even know what the project would be. Once they decided to do it for real, their goal became porting over the PS2 version and not remaking the game from scratch... because remaking the game from scratch would be insane as they'd never make back the money on it.lostinblue said:
lostinblue
Banned
Initially they said:infinityBCRT said:
They also said it could turn into another game altogether. But by "at the moment it's based on Metal Gear solid 3" they're referring to the demo that was supposed to evolve into a game, not promote a port that doesn't share a line of source code with it.
Shortly after E3, they announced they were developing it further and released a trailer, this was september 2010 and that 7 minute trailer was based on the E3 version, which was what they were promising. There was plenty footage of MGS3 PS2 otherwise.
Only recently at E3 2011 did we discover they started porting the game as is instead, which wasn't implied at all previously, and clearly wasn't their intention at first. Otherwise they wouldn't have announced the game being greenlighted with a spanking trailer that looked taylor made platform (and different than the PS2 original) when they only intended to port the PS2 game. not so.
Promising that and then backtracking if anything is a sign of incompetence in itself, planning went wrong? it would give more work than expected? their fault, they were the one's who proposed it and in the end implied/promised it, and we; consumer, reverberated confident and intention of purchasing a good and much improved looking MGS3, not a port.
To after downgrading it into a mere port, downwatering it and batch converting stuff was just taking the thing a notch further. It's a lack of respect on their account, and yes; incompetence.
Again, when they decided they released a trailer of the E3 version. Just so we could expect a direct and lazy portinfinityBCRT said:
They're not as innocent as you're trying to make them out to be.infinityBCRT said:
They must have known the expectation was that they were doing MGS3 with a proper new look, they proposed it and the public liked.
Now they could have done the MGS3 with that treatment, as expected and as implied or have used the tech demo to build a new game.
They chose neither, and instead did a port that it's showing up to be quite lame.
Something wen't wrong, sure And unrealistic goals have to be readjusted but then someone is at fault and that's certainly not the consumer. They're professionals, not us, and they totally utterly failed in judging their resources and capability of doing something properly.
Boney said:
This makes a lot of sense. OoT was only running at 30 frames per second with a few more polygons and sharper textures. If you read the Iwata asks for the port they talk about using alot of the same code from the N64 version. Here we are with MGS3 a whole generation ahead and on a notoriously complicated platform to program for. It makes sense that the 3DS would be getting bogged done with all the coding short cuts.
Yeah, I meant the PS2.
As for the frame rate, if the console could run the game at 60 without a problem, wouldn't that have made the development easier? In the Iwata asks they talk about all sorts of problems caused because of the frame rate change from between 15 and 25 to the 3DSs 30. 60's a multiple of both 15 and 20, and 25 would squeeze in a little more comfortably, so your key frames and everything would transfer over much more smoothly. I don't see how the norm for Zelda development comes into it. It's a port not an original title. 60 frames per second isn't going to hurt the gameplay. Maybe it is a steadfast standard, it strikes me as a bit weird though and it doesn't really negate what Boney's said.
I think Boney's making a good point. Moving the code strikes me as a much more likely explanation for the 30 FPS than a 30 fps Zelda standard. Particularly when looking at these MGS3 screens.
As for the frame rate, if the console could run the game at 60 without a problem, wouldn't that have made the development easier? In the Iwata asks they talk about all sorts of problems caused because of the frame rate change from between 15 and 25 to the 3DSs 30. 60's a multiple of both 15 and 20, and 25 would squeeze in a little more comfortably, so your key frames and everything would transfer over much more smoothly. I don't see how the norm for Zelda development comes into it. It's a port not an original title. 60 frames per second isn't going to hurt the gameplay. Maybe it is a steadfast standard, it strikes me as a bit weird though and it doesn't really negate what Boney's said.
I think Boney's making a good point. Moving the code strikes me as a much more likely explanation for the 30 FPS than a 30 fps Zelda standard. Particularly when looking at these MGS3 screens.
walking fiend
Member
judging 3DS capabilities based on this stupid port is as stupid as trying to judge 360/PS3 based on this screenshot:
and based on how well the game runs
it is seriously this stupid.
---
specially after seeing this
evolving into this
and based on how well the game runs
it is seriously this stupid.
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specially after seeing this
evolving into this
Very disappointing shots. What on earth are they doing?! As the game was originally coded for PS2 (which is very unique architecture), I'm not surprised that porting is a bit challenging, but I AM surprised that the textures, of all things, took a massive hit.
radioheadrule83
Banned
I think m3d10ns post nailed it, it looks like they've decided to cheap out on the capacity of the cards or something, in spite of the previous story we'd seen saying they'd been allowed to use a 4GB card.
"What are they doing?" is exactly how I feel about it.
Do it properly or don't do it at all Konami! This is my favourite game in the series, and I'd love a 3D handheld version, but not if they're gonna be lazy cheapasses about it.
"What are they doing?" is exactly how I feel about it.
Do it properly or don't do it at all Konami! This is my favourite game in the series, and I'd love a 3D handheld version, but not if they're gonna be lazy cheapasses about it.
I think with OOT3DS they were just lazy. They had to tweak every animation in the game to make them look smooth in an engine that runs at 30. Now I don't know anything about animating but my (weird and strange) logic tells me they'd have to do twice the work to re-do the animations for 60 FPS.BurntPork said:
Isn't Skyward running at 60? IIRC it does
I'm not great with seeing frame rates, but SS seems to still be 30FPS to me.Easy_D said:I think with OOT3DS they were just lazy. They had to tweak every animation in the game to make them look smooth in an engine that runs at 30. Now I don't know anything about animating but my (weird and strange) logic tells me they'd have to do twice the work to re-do the animations for 60 FPS.
Isn't Skyward running at 60? IIRC it does
Father_Brain
Banned
What's with all the negativity around here? Don't forget that this is the only way you can play this great game on a handheld! It's not like MGS HD is playable on Vita or anything.
nincompoop
Banned
Tales of the Abyss isn't a near perfect port, the battles only run at half the framerate.Alextended said:
infinityBCRT
Member
People need to eliminate lazy from their vocabulary. Video game development is about cost vs return, not effort vs quality.
FlashbladeGAF
Member
does kojima delaying the release give hope that he's actually trying not to be completely lazy about the port?
Anasui Kishibe
Banned
FlashbladeGAF said:
he's more likely trying to let the shitstorm fade away, only to return x1000 when the game is released and gets 7.0'ed all around
ShinNL
Member
Animation data usually isn't 30 or 60 fps. Any missing frame is interpolated to make it smooth.Easy_D said:I think with OOT3DS they were just lazy. They had to tweak every animation in the game to make them look smooth in an engine that runs at 30. Now I don't know anything about animating but my (weird and strange) logic tells me they'd have to do twice the work to re-do the animations for 60 FPS.
Isn't Skyward running at 60? IIRC it does
Sammy Samusu
Member
It's like everytime Konami releases a new screenshot the game looks worse, by next time it's gonna look like the NES series.
This thing will bomb hard, might as well cancel, delay or try something else, because at its current state nobody curs.
This thing will bomb hard, might as well cancel, delay or try something else, because at its current state nobody curs.
walking fiend
Member
isn't a 4GB flash pretty damn cheap? I believe lots of vita games will require at least 4GB. Or maybe it is Nintendo forcing them not to use it?!radioheadrule83 said:
CriterionDog
Member
I am going to buy this day one, my 3DS needs more love!