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Microsoft needs more exclusives throughout the year
- Thread starter GravityInsanity
- Start date
Mega Caprison
Member
Black Mantis
Member
He was pointing out the diversity in response to people saying that MS only release shooters and racers, how the hell did you miss that in my post?
And yes, given that I'll likely own 6 of those games once they're released (FM7 being the one I have no interest in), I'm happy with it. Multi-plats will take care of the quiet months, so it's not as if those are the only games I'll be playing during those 18 months.
MilkyJoe
Member
I don't know about this -- especially when multiple console bundles for multiplats have caused hype. Destiny was a cross gen multiplat but yet that game helped sell many current gen consoles.
Being able to play these games with friends on a console that's more powerful than what someone had before (whether PS4, Xbox One, Pro, X) definitely makes people happy.
The majority of people simply want a constant stream of good games to play and couldn't care less if the games are exclusive/console exclusive/multiplat/etc. It's easier to do this when your console has solid multiplat support vs. not having that.
The Wii U vs. Nintendo Switch is a great example of this. The Wii U had many solid exclusives yet it sold very poorly because those games didn't release on a regular basis. There were HUGE gaps for games on the Wii U. Nintendo Switch isn't suffering from the same problem. There has pretty much been a major title every month. Yeah, some of these titles were on Wii U but they have still greatly helped sales.
This.
Rellik
Member
Well now that Xbox games mostly release on PC meaning it has nearly zero exclusives, you think the Xbox One will sink?
LiquidSolid
Member
That's a pretty good take. There are obviously other factors involved (like friends, price, etc) but it's a nice succinct way to explain why multiplatform support and exclusives are important.
Based on the way things are, if Xbox were an independent company and not owned by Microsoft, I'd honestly think they were in some pretty dire "late 90s Sega" straights and the One X is their last roll of the die. There's a severe lack of coverage (from the media), interest (from consumers) and investment (from Microsoft) in that division and what good moves they make (like oXbox BC) just isn't enough to help swim against an ever strengthening tide.
But since they are owned by Microsoft, things aren't quite as dire as that. There's still plenty of possibilities. They could increase their budget and try harder to fight that tide. They could keep it running as is and hope the tide turns at some point, even as they continue to lose mind share and market share. Or, you know, they could kill it off. It depends entirely on what Nadella wants to do with it. So as is, I don't think things are looking good at all but we're nowhere near "Xbox is doooomed." Though at the same time, dreams of Xbox suddenly turning that tide around appear pretty delusional.
I think it's happening like right now. MS whiffed
Google for "June 2017 NPD leak". Xbox hardware sales are weakening even in their best market.
I wouldn't make late '90s Sega comparisons at all. Xbox still has solid game support (unlike Sega at the time due to them releasing so many systems to the point in which devs didn't know what to support) and online gaming/services to make money from weren't around in the console space back then either.
Wii U had many great exclusives. Sold horribly. It's simply about having a constant stream of good games regardless of whether they're exclusive or not. PS4 would do horribly without its thrid party multiplat support. Xbox One hasn't done that hot this year so far as there's been droughts in its "AAA attention grabbing"-game lineup.
Succinct Verbosity
Member
Thing is, when Nintendo was out of the picture with the Wii U, the Xbox One was a viable purchase. It's very rare the market can successfully sustain more than two consoles - there is usually one big loser. The wii/360/PS3 era was an anomaly in which all three hardware manufacturers did well.
Now the Switch has taken off, I've got to ask what the Xbox has to offer to differentiate it from the Switch/Ps4/PC. It has nothing. The only way a failing console has turned it around is with software, and that sure isn;t coming from Microsoft.
bigbaldwolf86
Banned
Well the thread was certainly interesting to read Hedon's meltdown and Nekkatsu throwing his account into oblivion.
When you compare the exclusives it's pretty clear that Sony is killing it at the moment. MS really need to invest in some proper exclusives and new IPs. I love my 360 and the exclusives it had were top notch but nothing compelled me to buy the X1 at launch and I don't see anything on the horizon either.
When you compare the exclusives it's pretty clear that Sony is killing it at the moment. MS really need to invest in some proper exclusives and new IPs. I love my 360 and the exclusives it had were top notch but nothing compelled me to buy the X1 at launch and I don't see anything on the horizon either.
That's great and all, but with MS's current business model, they need to sell hardware if they want growth. Any other model is a hypothetical right now.
You really only need look at the two machines' offerings side by side to notice this, but the real thorn in Microsoft's side is third-party support. In the time until Gran Turismo Sport releases there will have been no less than 4 Forzas on the XO, and otherwise you see a few standouts and a few familiar faces:
And the same, non-exhaustive list for PS4:
There aren't many notable 3rd-party exclusives on Microsoft's system in comparison to Sony. And that's not even getting to games in a situation like Dragon Quest XI which are available on Nintendo and PS4, but not Xbox, or games where the majority of the market just doesn't exist on Xbox (Final Fantasy XV, Rockman Legacy Collection).
Xbox One (Includes games also released on PC in any format) said:
And the same, non-exhaustive list for PS4:
PS4 (includes games released on PC in any format) said:
There aren't many notable 3rd-party exclusives on Microsoft's system in comparison to Sony. And that's not even getting to games in a situation like Dragon Quest XI which are available on Nintendo and PS4, but not Xbox, or games where the majority of the market just doesn't exist on Xbox (Final Fantasy XV, Rockman Legacy Collection).
There would be absolutely no Xboxes being sold if this were true. People are still buying it for multiple reasons.
The differences could/should definitely be greater and it looks like they will be next year but to say that there's nothing to differentiate is wrong.
Uno Venova
Banned
Even if they're just on PC/XB1, as long as MS keeps trucking the XB1 along without games to differentiate itself from the PS4, sales will continue to falter.
Louis Cyphre
Banned
It actually is quite different than MLB: The Show. Forza and Forza Horizon are two different style of racers created by different development teams.
Games are games and I have had more fun and more replay value in many sports games and racing titles than a lot of single player games that can be finished in 12-16 hours. Not all of those genre's you listed are annual releases either.
The introduction of the Switch merely coincides with Microsoft's third-party standing sliding off. They had a decent rate of third-party signups early gen (Titanfall, Tomb Raider, Quantum Break, Sunset Overdrive), when some third parties / independents still held the belief they would hang on to their 360-gen market position. Which was kind of a foolish holdover. The moment BR drive and particularly ESRAM was confirmed, the cards were set for a struggle. They went into this generation trying to compete at feature and spec parity with Sony, already massively behind in first party output. Their (not entirely unexpected) hardware fuckup this gen was ESRAM, which cost them performance parity. Forced bundling of Kinect was the sheer hubris icing on the cake.
This is always about software. Anyone who thinks otherwise hasn't paid attention during the PS2 / PS3 gens at all. Price is a road to critical mass, which leads to more software. First-party is the other road to software. Specs are not the road to software, they are just a nice nudge to ease the choice when all else is similar.
They are going to be outsold the rest of the year by a new Nintendo system which costs the same as an Xbox One S, while delivering less than half the performance. And the last card in their hands is a 500$ spec bump.
Good luck you guys.
Caayn
Member
If you're making a list, at least make sure that the lists are complete.
That is more on PD than on Turn10/Playground. PD even manages to launch with less cars than Turn10 did when they also recreated everything for Forza 5 in just two years.
MS line-up has been stagnant ever since Phill took over as head of MS games. I was tired of Halo and gears before this gen started never liked Forza. Infact over my 30+ years of gaming MS has the weakest 1st party output I've seen for a major console maker.
So personally I don't think MS cares about change I'd love to see it though.
So personally I don't think MS cares about change I'd love to see it though.
LiquidSolid
Member
The comparison wasn't meant to be perfect, in addition to what you said, the Dreamcast also had a MUCH better exclusives lineup than Microsoft's had in years. The point was that Sega was in a very difficult position and just didn't have the resources to not only compete but make up ground they'd already lost. That's the perception I get when looking at Xbox these days. They're in a position where even if they matched Sony blow for blow, they'd still end up losing ground, but they don't even appear to have the resources to do that.
And like I said, obviously the biggest difference between the two is Xbox is owned by a company with a shitload of resources, they're just not giving that division the resources they need. Unless they do, nothing is going to change, it's only going to get worse.
Louis Cyphre
Banned
I am not in any way trying to defend Microsoft and their lack of IP's but that has more to do with an overrated developer who can't seem to ever get a game out in a reasonable amount of time.
When I saw 343 created to just make Halo AND The Coalition/Black Tusk team get directed to making a Gears Of War game and stop production on the new IP they were working on that to me was the writing on the wall
Bits N Pieces
Member
Yeah, I wonder why, lol.
Caayn
Member
That's a strange coincidences don't you think?
Playstation has the upper hand in hardware: Resolution is all that matters, anything less than 1080p is not worthy my time.
Xbox has the upper hand in hardware: Exclusives matter, who cares about the resolution if it can't play good games.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
Wii U is such an oddity because it shares game's with the Switch, which are performing better on the latter. It's definitely not a black and white situation, because with Wii U it seemed like the hardware itself was such a turn off for most people that great exclusives couldn't even save it.
Uno Venova
Banned
Not...really? Unless you think people getting used to the differences and Digital Foundry threads gradually getting less and less attention over the years was a calculated effort to take the wind out of the X1X's sails.
But I'm guessing by the responses that might be a real theory.
OrbitalBeard
Member
I think the Wii U proves that great software can only take your system so far if it's an undesirable dumpster fire. The Wii U is the only system I've ever purchased that I almost immediately regretted. Everything about it annoyed me.
Exclusives back during the Dreamcast era mattered far more as exclusives were the true AAA games. Things shifted as the PS2/Xbox/GC gen progressed with multiplats getting bigger budgets and now multiplats are pretty much the major attention grabbing titles.
They'll never catch up to Sony even if MS did everything right. Playstation simply has more worldwide brand recognition and history. The PS3 showed this as the PS3 was still selling well in many territories outside of North America regardless of the constant criticism it received during the time.
It further shows/proves my point that people want systems that have a constant stream of good games regardless of whether they are exclusive or not. Playstation and Xbox are known for this due to their third party support thus causing people to have faith that they will always have games to play by using consoles from either brand as their primary gaming box.
Multiplats are software, too. The Wii U wasn't particularly fit for attracting those.
Meanwhile, more than half of Nintendo's first party was busy riding / pushing the 3DS wave, mostly in Japan, at the expense of the Wii U globally. Nintendo recognized this as a problem because otherwise they wouldn't rectify it, which they are doing right now by unification of all internal dev resources on the Switch.
Nintendo exclusive titles were in fact the saving grace of the Wii U, but the software offering was far from strong if you look at the competition.
Meaning, it's still been about software, even for the Wii U.
They are, now? Wouldn't realize that reading some replies in this thread.
And again, the Wii U's constant game droughts didn't help at all. The Switch is constantly getting attention because there's at least one major game coming to the system every month just as the case has been during the majority of the PS4's and Xbox One's life (whether exclusive or multiplat). The Switch is being talked about by many at the same rate the PS4 and Xbox One were talked about during the majority of this gen because of that.
The Wii U on the other hand had periods in which it literally went 6-7 months without a major title. That fact combined with its terrible marketing/branding caused many people to not even know what the Wii U was. The Xbox brand (and obviously PlayStation brand) will never be in the position that the Wii U was as long as they continue on getting solid AAA third party support and that seems to be the case for at least these next 2-3 years.
Ascenion
Member
I wouldn't say it's a coincidence it's the general roadmap of a generation. It's about graphics, then graphics hit a seeming peak and then it's about software.
It's always about games though, you need those to showcase the graphics which still isn't in the Xbox One X's favor. It has Forza and some 3rd party titles. I do concede the Pro didn't get its showcase title until he next year either.
I don't think any of their output specifically this gen has hit that demographic in particular. Killer Instinct, Sunset Overdrive, Quantum Break, Ori, Dead Rising, ReCore... I mean the dudebroiest games this gen have been Gears and Halo, and they're... They're Gears and Halo.
Other IP that carry forward, like Forza Horizon 3, is a blue skies feel good vacation, and needs you to be neither dude nor bro.
Remasters have focused on obscure games like Phantom Dust and Voodoo Vince. The latter may require that you're a voodoo bro, I dunno.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
I think this is going to be a generation unlike what we've seen in the past. Xbox will stay afloat thanks to third parties and the occasional first party game. But I can see Switch overtaking it as time goes by, with Xbox falling into third place. How that affects them is anyone's guess, but I imagine they'll be ok as long as their games are doing well on both Xbox and PC.
Humdinger
Member
I wish you were calling the shots, because those are exactly the kind of games you won't see from MS.
This is one of my gripes -- the GaaSy direction they are taking. Even the few new exclusives we will see are likely to be GaaS, e.g., multiplayer shooters or MMO-type games, loaded with MTs and all the rest. Bleh. I've got no interest in that stuff.
We're getting a little carried away with the "Xbox is Sega" and "Xbox has nothing to differentiate it" stuff. Let's stay grounded.
MS is making a tidy profit off of Xbox. It is nowhere near failing. It is selling about as well as its predecessor, which was a success. It looks poor by comparison with PS4, but Pepsi looks poor in comparison with Coke, and Pepsi is still raking in the money.
As for differentiators, there are a whole range, including a large number of exclusives (not large enough, but large), XBL, good services, controller, and (soon) more powerful hardware.
DriftingSpirit
Member
No, not really. I just think it matters more at the beginning of a generation and becomes less relevant as the consoles saturate the market. As Uno mentioned, even Digital Foundry threads here stopped getting as much attention. It becomes more about software that can draw people in who weren't pulled in because of the power stuff or what not.
So, at the beginning of next generation, the power thing will be used to push the consoles again.
Enthusiasts gonna enthusiast. And enthusiasting is good, mind. But the volumes are made elsewhere: "And of every five PlayStation 4s Sony sells, Layden says one is a PlayStation 4 Pro"
PS4Pro is a margin generator, goodwill generator, and that's that. The platform developers actually target, that actually attracts them, is the 60 million+ "PS4" built by (now) a <=300$ entry price and consistent delivery of diverse software, exclusive or otherwise.
Do expect the ratio of Xbox One X : Xbox One [all] to be even lower than 1 : 5. The price gap is double of the PS4Pro : PS4 reference case. 4k won't change the course of this generation for jack shit.
MS execs on this forum said No way they'd give the power advantage to Sony. There was all this DX12,The cloud,Secret sauce being a advantage for X1.
Turns out it was a bunch of BS people paid $100 more for a less capable Console. Better looking games matter when paying $100 less, infact it's a easy choice for many.
If X1 launched cheaper than Ps4 you really think ps4 having advantages would have been a huge deal? I don't think so price sets expectations for any product.
I would say it's already unlike any gen we've seen in the past thanks to the mid gen consoles. I definitely think it's possible for the Switch to overtake the Xbox One in overall sales but it will depend on how Nintendo can constantly deliver major titles for the system. They are releasing so many heavy hitters on a monthly basis that it's making me really interested in what the Switch will have after 2018 but on the flip side I could also see Nintendo releasing a remodeled Switch by then to help console sales.
So yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if the Switch overtakes Xbox One in 2019 in the same fashion and gap the PS3 overtook Xbox 360 (i.e. a couple million). I'm thinking both consoles will be around the 45-50 million mark around that time.
Citation needed.
Citation needed.
Citation needed.
Uno Venova
Banned
It's hard to know if the 'selling as well as the 360' narrative is even true anymore considering they've given up on releasing hardware #'s.
Humdinger
Member
I'm not going to do your homework for you. But you can check MS financials if you think Xbox isn't profitable.
It is. But it's not hard to develop reasonable estimates. Most on SalesGAF would tell you X1 has been tracking approximately with 360 most of the gen, but it has fallen behind lately. The degree of falling behind is a matter of disagreement -- some say it's a little, some say it's more than a little.
Xbox 360 reached 40 million in early 2010 -- around 4.5 years after the system launched.
Early 2018 will be 4.5 years after the Xbox One launched.
Based on "2:1" vs. PS4, I would think the Xbox One is a little bit over 30 million right now.
It all depends on how the Xbox One S and X does this Holiday season. Either way though I'm expecting the Xbox One to pretty much fall behind Xbox 360 in 2018. It may not be during the early part of the year but I can't see how the Xbox One will have anything to keep up with how well the 360 sold during its time once we get close to 2019.