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My best friend/roommate got overly aggressive on a work trip. How can he recover?
- Thread starter Megalosaro
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In a social setting with coworkers. Not in what amounts to more like a business dinner with management.
My work provides free drink cards at these sort of things.
I'm pretty sure it is encouraged to get employees to loosen up and get to know each other more. Your relationships at work can be the difference between enjoying your job and hating your job.
How are people ignoring this and giving advice? The guy has serious issues and more than likely will have another outburst like this in the future regardless of alcohol
Gravy Boat
Member
I don't think it's that big a deal. As long as he is able to own up, apologise and promise that it won't happen again, I can't see them firing an otherwise good employee over one drunken argument.
H.Protagonist
[-_-]/
...a drunken argument with a superior(1) in front of others(2), where she told him to stop, but instead of doing so he doubled down(3) and insisted that if she didn't agree then to have him fired(4). Then he tried to stare her down(5).
1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + 5 = a pretty big deal
Additionally, he refuses to apologize. Among other things.
Gravy Boat
Member
I still don't see any of that as a big deal. Maybe the UK is different but over here I'm pretty sure you can't get fired for having an argument with superiors outside of work, unless he was being offensive or verbally attacking someone (OP makes it sounds like a heated debate about work more than an actual 'FUCK YOU' kind of argument).
The only issue I see is him refusing to apologise.
archangelmorph
Member
He's a contractor = toast...
Gravy Boat
Member
Maybe he is, but I think that would be pretty shitty of them to just fire anyone who has a disagreement with them, regardless of how good they do their job. I think it's shitty that that's even legal.
H.Protagonist
[-_-]/
You seem to be glossing over his general behavior and the getting in her face to stare her down bit. He was aggressive, unprofessional, and just demonstrated to the people that employ him (and other employees) that he has authority issues. The guy is also a contractor with no actual standing at the company. Even that aside, as a former manager, unless there were some other mitigating circumstances or an actual apology, I would not hesitate to let someone like him go.
Prophet Steve
Member
Of course you can have a disagreement, but the way you handle that disagreement matters a lot.
This is a terrible way of handling a disagreement.
Gravy Boat
Member
If he has done a good job up until this point (which it sounds like he has? I dunno) the firing him over this just seems unfair. I don't think having too much to drink one night and getting a bit lippy is enough to say he has authority issues. If he apologises and promises it'll never happen again, then I think that should be enough since no real damage was done. If he's refusing to apologise then that's something different, but still, I'm glad that's not how things work in the UK. As far as I know, that's not grounds to fire someone over here.
I agree completely, which is why I have an issue with him not apologising. Most people have been in a situation where they've had a bit too much to drink and either embarrassed themselves, got a bit confrontational or both. It's hardly the end of the world and doesn't affect his ability to do his job in anyway, at most it's a show of disrespect to his employer but apologising and owning up to it while sober would be a great show of respect to them.
If this was something he did regularly then I'd understand the 'he's toast' crowd, but if it's a one off then it should be easy to move past it if he bothered to apologise.
In all the places I've worked from small tech companies to large multi-national finance companies, alcohol is absolutely a part of lunch and dinner functions, client relations and industry events.
That's Australia anyway.
Prophet Steve
Member
I am not talking about handling the aftermath, which would be an apology. You don't have a disagreement in that way, ever. No staring down, no telling that they should just fire you otherwise. Especially acknowledging the limits when someone says you should stop. Alcohol is not an excuse ever, either you stop drinking, or you make sure you behave yourself when drinking.
The only question lies in how fair it is to fire someone for a one-time incident. This is not just a possible firing because the person disagrees with them, but because of the way he disagreed with them.
I wouldn't want to be within a 100m radius of this guy.
Gravy Boat
Member
I don't agree with what he did or the way he handled the disagreement, but I still don't see it as something to get fired over. I dunno, clearly I'm in the minority here but to me it seems odd that he'd even be allowed to be fired for that. It just seems so extreme to bypass all other forms of discipline and just go straight to getting rid of them.
oneils
Member
Op, you are way too involved in this guys life. You are not his keeper. Sounds like he has a lot of baggage, don't make it yours just because you need a roommate. Is he your spouse? If not, it might be a good idea to let him solve his own problems for a while and to get your own place.
H.Protagonist
[-_-]/
Yeah... Pretty scary shit. That's why I think even if he did fake or manage an apology, it would just get worse the way his thought process is.
Definitely in the minority, then. Had it been just some embarrassing drunken flub it wouldn't be such an issue, but it is 100% unprofessional and the aggressive behavior seals the deal. He also wouldn't be 'fired'. As we keep saying, he's a contractor, so they just wouldn't renew his contract. The fact that he's not even an employee per se is what also works against him this situation, and why so many of us are shocked anyone in that position would do such a thing. He just very publicly proved himself undesirable as an actual employee. Easy done.
He's done for. They may even give him a bad reference, which may ruin his chance of ever getting a job in this field.
First rule of being a good professional grown up adult - unless you're VERY close with the colleagues present, don't get drunk. Ever.
I work in a company that has a tradition of getting a drink every friday and going to a restaurant once a month. No one gets drunk. One guy did once - he got fired with bad reference. It's just common sense and professionalism. You don't need to get drunk to have fun with people.
I would suggest your friend cuts the alcohol if he's a lightweight.
First rule of being a good professional grown up adult - unless you're VERY close with the colleagues present, don't get drunk. Ever.
I work in a company that has a tradition of getting a drink every friday and going to a restaurant once a month. No one gets drunk. One guy did once - he got fired with bad reference. It's just common sense and professionalism. You don't need to get drunk to have fun with people.
I would suggest your friend cuts the alcohol if he's a lightweight.
hydrophilic attack
Member
what is a human factors engineer
There's no advice to give about or to your friend beyond the obvious. He's a shitheel who needs to get his act together and isn't getting his contract renewed, nevermind a raise. He could and should improve his behaviour and his interactions with others but he's clearly not interested so why should anyone else be?
What we should really be talking about is how you became his doormat.
What we should really be talking about is how you became his doormat.
CosmicGroinPull
Member
In this instance I find the ancient Japanese art of the dogeza extremely helpful. Ask him to try it, preferably where a lot of people can see.
Industrial.
Megalosaro
Banned
It's a sub branch of psychology that deals with human interaction with technology.
Sorry but he should be more concerned about his character than his job.
sounds like he should have been more concerned with a psychology that deals with human interaction with other humans
ultratruman
Banned
What if he was right?
Kid Kamikaze10
Member
Geez, and I thought not notifying my manager about a trip I'm still working remotely during was a really bad look.
Help your friend if you feel you need to. But you have GOT to reign him in if that's the case. Put some conditionals (save your job/go to anger managerment and I'll help you if you lose it).
Help your friend if you feel you need to. But you have GOT to reign him in if that's the case. Put some conditionals (save your job/go to anger managerment and I'll help you if you lose it).
Megalosaro
Banned
Doesn't matter. It's about knowing your place. At the very minimum he over stepped his bound IMHO.
The more i think about it, the less surprised this happened. All of my friends in general have this problem where they think their are smarter than they really are.
My best friend in particular problem with people questioning him, especially about his field.
Say we are discussing a news piece and we are of differing opinions. He'll try to brow beat you into submission citing all sorts of stuff. If you don't relent, hell start saying stuff like " I am backed up by facts and logic.". It's pretty annoying
Admiral Woofington
Member
Great friend you have there
David Incorporated Esq.
Member
Socially inept, incapable of admitting mistakes, obsessively claim they're right and you're wrong?
Are all of your friends engineers?
GifGafIsTheBestGaf
Member
he should apologize and never drink at work related events again
he should be looking out for another job just in case
he should be looking out for another job just in case
Megalosaro
Banned
Yes, actually. I was the only liberal arts major (Japanese)
There are many things that could cause a person to lose control momentarily, the guy could be going through anything or maybe he's never learnt to control his emotions well. Anyone calling him an idiot or hoping he gets fired might remember this, that not everyone has had the same opportunity for personal education. Of course he's responsible, but we're not perfect and we're constantly learning how to deal with and process emotions and situations.
As for the OP's question: I'd recommend that he tries to understand what caused this to happen, if he can ascertain the precise root then he should deal with whatever it is that's causing this behaviour. If there's nothing specific, maybe take up meditation and practise some will power exercises.
Of course, apologise to colleagues etc... but also make it clear that he's looking into the cause and is learning how to control himself in future. Flip it that it's been a learning experience, and he's taking the opportunity to better himself etc...
But actually do it, don't just say it or it could easily happen again.
As for the OP's question: I'd recommend that he tries to understand what caused this to happen, if he can ascertain the precise root then he should deal with whatever it is that's causing this behaviour. If there's nothing specific, maybe take up meditation and practise some will power exercises.
Of course, apologise to colleagues etc... but also make it clear that he's looking into the cause and is learning how to control himself in future. Flip it that it's been a learning experience, and he's taking the opportunity to better himself etc...
But actually do it, don't just say it or it could easily happen again.
David Incorporated Esq.
Member
It was a rhetorical question, I already knew what the answer would be (50/50 joking). The other engineers is one of the main reasons I got out of engineering and into construction management.
Admiral Woofington
Member
I get it's a joke but my friends and I are all engineers and we are like non confrontational in the office unless it's necessary.
and this is also why women are so put off by engineering.
backflip10019
Member
If he really wants to keep his job, the best thing he can do is apologize profusely to his manager, say he has a drinking problem and he's going to seek help to fix it. Otherwise, he's gone.
And on the fact of having a drink with your boss (even senior management), I don't see a problem with it. I've had drinks with the president and CEO of my company numerous times (even getting a bit too buzzed than I should have). As long as you can control yourself, you're fine.
And on the fact of having a drink with your boss (even senior management), I don't see a problem with it. I've had drinks with the president and CEO of my company numerous times (even getting a bit too buzzed than I should have). As long as you can control yourself, you're fine.
Or if he can't hold his liquer, don't drink at work functions...
Seems a bad idea anyways to get drunk at a work function.
Megalosaro
Banned
To his defense, I don't think he was trying. He doesn't drink very often. I have a feeling he was trying to keep up with the people he was with, and failed.
He sure failed.
Megalosaro
Banned
I think that's the under lying issue. Here's pretty immature in a lot of ways. The dude has had a lot of misfortune in his life, but he has been rather lucky in his successes. Rather than embracing those successes, he dwells on the on the bad stuff and has adopted a victim mentality.
It's a problem his whole family shares.
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