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[Lifeline]

I, too, sneer at such plebian fare while I pretend to be Indiana Jones and shotgun people.

I was pretending to be Brendan Fraser in his prime.

 

[emb]

I understand completionism, and I understand playing differently due to trophies/achievements. I still think it's important not to lose sight of the idea that the game's design is really kinda separate from that trophy and others. It's an optional extra; it should probably be done on a separate playthrough anyway. A trophy that encourages replaying the game in a very different way is kind of a good one in my eyes tbh.

 

[hey_it's_that_dog]

You're complaining about imaginary people doing something optional?
Don't speedrun on your first five playthroughs, it's that easy, nobody forces you to.

These fictional bastards are insulting the mastercraft of glorious Naughty Dog!

 

[Onlinehero]

Make every cut-scene unskippable so that EVERYONE will be forced to enjoy the GLORIOUS non-interactable clichéd "it's not a movie but what do you expect?"-quality scenes that also made the industry incorporate new words to describe how badly said scenes clash with player action. (but for the love of God don't touch Doughnut Drake!)

Truly, the Citizen Kane of video games.

 

[Slythe]

This is like being upset that a Bluray includes a commentary track because it takes away from appreciating the in-movie dialogue.

I don't think anyone at ND intends for you to speed run your first play through.

 

[bosseye]

will it persist into The Last of Us Part II having no trophies other than speedrunning-related ones?

......Um....No? Thats quite the leap of logic.

As for the other stuff, its a complete non-issue:

- I doubt anyone speedruns through the game the first time they play and if they did, who cares.
- Having optional speedrun trophies doesn't in any way detract from the 'normal' way to play the game. Where is the harm on speedrunning if you've already experienced the narrative and pacing of the game as Naughty Dog intended?

 

[xrnzaaas]

Seems like a really odd thing to moan about. It's a completely optional trophy; very easy to ignore if you don't care for it.

Yes, but you won't get platinum that way. ;p I don't mind challenging trophies, but I hate the ones that don't correspond well with the overall flow of the game (which, in my opinion, is about exploring and enjoying the beautiful locations around the world, not racing against time constantly). This one imo is kinda like getting a trophy for crashing into others in a race sim game.

 

[giancarlo123x]

But its optional.

 

[Tambini]

... You know that you don't have to speedrun the game on your first run, right ?

If you don't like the whole speedrun thing, just... act like there's no speedrunning trophy ?

.

Seriously..

 

[Rumblebones]

This is silly. Play their games however you want to play them but don't advocate limiting what other players can do.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

but

my platinum

how will i live

i paid for the game, i am entitled to all of its content, including the platinum

just give me the option of getting the trophy without doing the run, that is all i ask

 

[horkrux]

This should be a non-issue for the overwhelming majority of players.
I'd go so far as to say that no person ever would do this, but I guess there is always a tiny fraction of a fraction of players insane enough to go for those trophies on their very first playthrough (ruining their entire experience in the process), but why even care about them. It's their choice.

 

[*Splinter]

It's no more or less "damaging" than a collectible trophy that forces you to play through the game pausing every 5-10 minutes to check a guide for the next piece of treasure.

 

[kunonabi]

Its just a trophy and normal people usually do speed runs after their first playthrough anyway. As long as they arent compromising the core game design, like botw for example, to facilitate speed running then providing rewards for them is perfectly fine.

 

[BlackLagoon]

Hey, here is a wonderful solution for this problem.....don't play speedrunning if that bothers you so much. Trophies are overrated anyway.

I had a good time platinuming Uncharted 1-3 on the PS3, doing it again on U4 seemed natural.

I think you already stated how speedrunning ignores the point of the narrative emphasis. Instead, the emphasis is on pure reflex, knowing what's ahead, and how to deal with potential RNG.

Why leave that out, if a niche audience wants it?

In U4 you can turn on auto-aim, infinite ammo and play on the easiest difficultly. So the only real "challenge" is remembering what you need to do when and executing without losing too much time. It wasn't really that hard, just incredibly boring and pointless and the game would have been better without that trophy.

It's great for people that want to try their hand at running a game faster to have the tools built in to do it.

What's great for people that don't want to, is they simply don't have to.

What "tools"? The only "tool" in U4 is the total playtime timer on the save file, as it was on the originals without any speed run trophy. You still have to skip the cutscenes yourself.

The idea of the speed running achievements is to add replayability. You aren't supposed to go for them on your first playthrough.

So they should add a "Complete game 1 million times" trophy then. Boom. Most replayable game ever!

 

[Rumblebones]

but

my platinum

how will i live

i paid for the game, i am entitled to all of its content, including the platinum

just give me the option of getting the trophy without doing the run, that is all i ask

That's not how that works. You're not entitled to setting the challenges of the game or determining when you've achieved them. Those are the creative prerogatives of developers. All you're entitled to is the opportunity.

 

[red731]

Let me drive Formula 1 race without any experience on first try.

Shit! I didn't have the best lap time! This organization sucks!

 

[Smooth Operator]

It wasn't really that hard, just incredibly boring and pointless and the game would have been better without that trophy.

Wait a minute... Now a game can be better or worse because of the trophies ???

 

[test_account]

This is suppose to be done after beating the game the first time, in my opinion. I'd say its there to extend the replay value. I could see someone wanting to do it on the first try though, but thats a choice they make for themself.

Wait a minute... Now a game can be better or worse because of the trophies ???

Several of people think so actually. Not sure why exactly, but i think they feel somewhat forced to do them simply because the challenges are there and can be done. I cant see any other reason to do the challenges/achievements if one doesnt want to.

 

[GwyndolinCinder]

Christ, this is some next level neogaf right here.

 

[InsaneTiger]

It's exactly this. It feels like such a waste. Uncharted is certainly more conducive to speedrunning than a stealth TPS like TLoU, but I don't want it anywhere near their design docs.

Ok, you don't like it but how is it hurting you and why shouldn't ND include it? Do feel that speed running is beneath Naughty Dog? Why?

 

[foolishoptimist]

Did you all know you can do the speed run with gun hacks?

I thought the speed running trophy was loads of fun actually, and I've not actually ever done one before.

I have to say though, the way ND approach UC vs TLOU, I highly doubt they're building that game for speed running. It just doesn't match the serious, harsh tone. They're more likely to have a trophy for beating the game using just bricks.

 

[BlackLagoon]

Wait a minute... Now a game can be better or worse because of the trophies ???

If you don't care about trophies the game remains unchanged. If you do care it would be a better experience. Hence an improved game, even if not everyone cares or notices.

 

[Elfotografoalocado]

If you are in for the atmosphere, why do you care about trophies?

 

[Seventy70]

While I agree that Uncharted seems like an odd series to speedrun, it actually works out quite well. I was pleasantly surprised at how much fun I had speedrunning the games in the collection. For me, it's sort of like a throwback to when people used to re watch movies more often.

 

[falconxcrunner09]

You can literally cheese the speed run lol. Un patch the game, beat first chapter, save and quit. Reload the final chapter and it will unlock.


That being said, it's only a trophy.

 

[ghostjoke]

I swear if ever there was a universal real life achievement system, regardless of it being completely optional, and one of them was "Jump off a Cliff", a frightening number of people would plummet to their death for platinum.

 

[Atomski]

Stop caring about achievements... Problem solved.

 

[red731]

I swear if ever there was a universal real life achievement system, regardless of it being completely optional, and one of them was "Jump off a Cliff", a frightening number of people would plummet to their death for platinum.

Some people are just like that.

 

[Doctoglethorpe]

I don't see the problem. It was actually really easy cause you can use cheats like unlimited ammo and free revolvers, plus the auto aim, to make it stupidly easy.

Difficulty achievements are far worse imo. Luckily again they let you use cheats this time to make it easy (I got the hardest difficulty trophy on my speed run, lawl)

 

[CHC]

ND games just have some of the most horrendous trophies in the business. Not worth pursuing really. They have nothing to do with fully experiencing the game and everything to do with repeating a bunch of annoying or unlikely bullshit many times over.

 

[TissueBox]

As long as they don't start basing the design of the game around it, I could turn a blind eye to it.

 

[Gbraga]

People who care the most about trophies are the ones who complain the most about actually having to earn them.

You'd imagine that earning them would be the whole point.

 

[Mupod]

so...don't do it on your first playthrough? I do not understand. At all.

 

[prag16]

It's completely optional.

As long as it doesn't affect the core game design, who cares. Trophy obsession is silly anyway.

 

[mindsale]

Ok, you don't like it but how is it hurting you and why shouldn't ND include it? Do feel that speed running is beneath Naughty Dog? Why?

I just think when they go to such pains to create an atmosphere and cultivate character it's a bummer to forego all that for an achievement. You should get trophies for taking 50 hours in a playthrough, taking pictures and shit.

 

[therealbigrich]

Nothing wrong with it from what I can tell . I have never done one and probably never will and it doesn't seem to hurt the game at all.

 

[RyougaSaotome]

You're better than this.

Still trying to work around this. Better than what? Better than offering a trophy for speed running?

What does that even mean??

Also: if you're worried about people experiencing the content, you do realize that ppl could just...not do it on their first run, yeah?

 

[potatohead]

The only problem is that you feel that you need the trophy so badly.

So many problems in games I'm slowly realizing are problems with players not the games.

 

[Glass Shark]

.

 

[Coxswain]

Without having seen how these were implemented in the games that already have them, my initial gut reaction is that Naughty Dog would actually benefit tremendously from keeping speedrunning in mind during development. They've already, unfortunately, kind of become the standard-bearer for it's-not-a-cutscenes-because-you-can-walk-left-and-right-inside-this-enclosed-space-while-you-watch unskippable cutscenes, forced slow-walking in lieu of loading screens, and those sequences where you have to be/carry some injured dude, moving agonizingly slowly, through something that appears to be an already-dangerous situation made worse by your handicap, but is instead a nigh-unlosable, almost entirely scripted sequence, where the prevailing design goal is "this should last x seconds" rather than anything having to do with teaching or testing any of the player's skills.

Designing with speedruns as at least an afterthought might trim some of the fat and replace some of those sequences with more gameplay-friendly alternatives.

 

[GitarooMan]

I wouldn't, but some would.

I cherish the first five playthroughs of ND software.

Now I only cherish the first four, but I see where you're coming from.

 

[Dipper145]

I don't understand how this is an issue, seems like a reasonable achievement to have. Something that is probably actually more difficult to do and should feel like an actual achievement.

I believe, like some others here, that the actual problem lives with the need some feel to get all the achievements. Do you feel that these achievements should be easier to get? Given for simple things like just completing a chapter of the game, or the game itself? Or should they aim to be things that should actually be difficult to get?

 

[Johndoey]

Is this a parody thread?

How is this an issue? It's there to provide an incentive to replay a game you've already gone through in a different way. It can also easily be ignored.

 

[Alpende]

I dislike trophies like that as well, especially for a cinematic game like Uncharted. However, I don't really care about speed on my first playthrough, so I just don't pay attention to it.

 

[Aroll]

I don't get the complaint? Some folks enjoy speed running ND games. They should get punished? Heh. You just admitted that achievement hasn't actually impacted the quality of the games or the experience. It just means some folks gave a visible badge for doing it. So what?

Most people who speedrun have already played through the game slower and experience literally everything. It's a common misconception that speedrunners never played the game "as intended". Of course they have. To even attempt to speedrun in most cases requires that you master the game in the first place.

It is what it is. The game can be enjoyed in multiple ways. So what's the issue? That they don't enjoy it the same way you do?

 

[HarryKS]

To me, being able to complete a level in less than 5 minutes during your umpteenth try is actually a proof of good design where you'd otherwise take 30 mins-1 hour on your original attempt.

It's good level design and feels kinetic.

 

[Fancy Clown]

I don't think most people speedrun so who cares. Also I think they should actually make more design choices to facilitate that, so on replays you can get to the meatier gameplay elements more quickly.

 

[Oachkatzlschwoaf]

Yep. I made a hobby of Platinuming all Naughty Dog games on PS3 and I just refuse to do speedrunning trophies on the PS4 games. And I'm not a trophy whore, I just love relishing as much of Naughty Dog's content as I can.

Sounds like you chose the wrong hobby.

 

[Booker Dewitt]

I just think when they go to such pains to create an atmosphere and cultivate character it's a bummer to forego all that for an achievement. You should get trophies for taking 50 hours in a playthrough, taking pictures and shit.

Sounds like you just want people to play the game exactly like you do...